Unmarried fathers rights, custody and visitation.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

They should have two queues. One for those in agreement and one for those contesting so the latter dont hold up the former. Not fair.

They are dealt with as "short matters". They are pushed to the beginning of a court day so as to be dealt with briefly and set aside.

Imagine this: if both parents had equal rights, there would only be one queue required.

The Corinthian

I really don't see what there is to celebrate about. The news report and interviews openly admitted that nothing was likely to change until next year at the earliest and even then fathers were unlikely to gain new rights. Indeed, as was pointed out in a parallel thread the Law Reform Commission's report that was cited actually looks to effectively castrate the existing position of guardianship, removing any existing rights associated with it, and thus affecting even married fathers and further strengthening the hegemony of control by mothers who have a virtual monopoly on custody.

So even if a two tier system were introduced, as people are suggesting here, the 'fast track' option still would be dependent on the agreement of the mother, and result in the gaining of a legal status that will likely become practically worthless in terms of rights.

I genuinely have very little faith in Irish family law or the politics behind it, now or for the foreseeable future.

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

They are dealt with as "short matters". They are pushed to the beginning of a court day so as to be dealt with briefly and set aside.

Imagine this: if both parents had equal rights, there would only be one queue required.

I think I am seriously not understanding something. Ultimately, I dont think automatic guardianship will make much of a difference except to clear up a backlog. [Saying that I have no idea of what the stats are regarding contested guardianship, if its substantial or miniscule. ]

So what are they afraid of?

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think I am seriously not understanding something. Ultimately, I dont think automatic guardianship will make much of a difference except to clear up a backlog. [Saying that I have no idea of what the stats are regarding contested guardianship, if its substantial or miniscule. ]

So what are they afraid of?

That's a very good question. The main answer given in the Law Reform Commission's White Paper is: they figure a lot more mums will refuse to give the father's name at registration, if the father gets automatic guardianship rights.

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

That's a very good question. The main answer given in the Law Reform Commission's White Paper is: they figure a lot more mums will refuse to give the father's name at registration, if the father gets automatic guardianship rights.

So what? The fathers can then take out a paternity suit.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

So what? The fathers can then take out a paternity suit.

How much are DNA tests? Who pays?

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

How much are DNA tests? Who pays?

Ah there we have it. The state doesn't want to pay for the dna tests.

I think as it stands now, its whomever contests the paternity who pays for the test.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

Ah there we have it. The state doesn't want to pay for the dna tests.

I think as it stands now, its whomever contests the paternity who pays for the test.

According to the Treoir document:

If the court orders that testing be carried out, the court may also direct who is to pay the cost of the service; this may be the mother, the alleged father or shared cost.

According to Citizens Information:

• If a father wants to carry out a paternity test to establish legal paternity in order that it would stand up in Court, then all three parties (mother, father, child) would need to be tested, so the mother would have to agree to this test.
• Rates can be as much as 1,000 euro for the test.
• Depending on the circumstances of the individuals inovlved, the court may make an order for costs, and the parent(s) may be required to make a contribution to the overall cost.

So it kind of covers all eventualities, without narrowing it down.

Klingon Hamlet

An article about single fatherhood in the UK Telegraph:

Being a part-time father can make you feel suicidal, says Louis de Bernières. Tim Lott sympathises with his plight.


My heart goes out to Louis de Bernières, and to the countless thousands of other fathers who have faced the pain of being separated from their children. No wonder he ended up feeling suicidal.

The author, whose partner Cathy Gill, a theatre director, moved out of the family home with their two children in February last year, has described the “emotional desolation” that followed the departure of Robin, five, and Sophie, two.

“It was really dreadful. The worst thing, practically, was finding the house so quiet because it was always so full of laughter and rampaging and stampeding,” said de Bernières. “The emotional desolation is hard to describe. There were many times when I felt suicidal.”

Parting from my wife, Sarina, and children Ruby and Cissy in 1999, left me with too many agonising memories to count. The lonely weekends in the parks alone with other sad single dads. The lies I told my children in order to reassure them – “Isn’t it wonderful – you’re going to have two homes instead of just one”.

The memory that sticks in my mind is of Ruby, then seven years old, running after my car screaming for me to come back after my designated weekend was over. That image – of her running down the street after me, as I stared at her diminishing image in my rear-view mirror – still replays in my head. The fact that I could not see my children for five days felt deeply unnatural.

It’s important to emphasise that family breakdown is a nightmare for everyone. Mothers suffer and so do grandparents, and even close friends. Most crucially the children suffer. Not only are they deprived of having two parents living in the same house, quite often they will lose a parent altogether.

Something like one third of fathers lose all contact with their children after divorce. This is often put down to the indifference of the father but often, I suspect, it’s about the barriers that can be put in the way of contact. They may be erected by the courts or the mother, or both. A mother may relocate to somewhere geographically remote or form a new relationship in which the biological father is seen as an impediment to the harmony of the open “new family”. Put another way, this amounts, as Bob Geldolf once put it, to “a form of child abuse”.

Nothing like this happened between Sarina and myself. We parented by agreement on more or less equal terms. But that was because the mother elected that it be so. If it had been up to the courts, or a more vengeful spouse, I would have been lucky to see my children every other weekend.

I agree with de Bernières that there remains a historical tendency for society to see fathers as the disposable parent. De Bernières called it “a sentimental Victorian idea” which took mothers to be automatically “sacred”. It’s an attitude that still permeates the courts, as well as popular opinion.

This is a noxious idea. Both parents are sacred. The idea that the presence of the father is unimportant for a child’s development is plainly untrue – the gang wars and petty crime that scar our city streets are so often perpetrated by children and teenagers who have no paternal role model.

Less obvious is the loss to the father when their children stop being part of his daily life. This element is often dismissed as self-pity. The argument, if it could be summed up in a statement goes like this: “Why are you whining when you have given up on your marriage and left your children in a broken home?”

By this definition, fathers, in grieving for their loss, are giving into “female” feelings – and this punished by condemning it as “self-pity”. But to find yourself suddenly living alone, and often impoverished, the sense of loneliness and grief can be disabling.

I also recognise the feelings “fantastically deep, bitter anger” to which de Bernières refers. For me, these partly displaced feelings of loss, partly feelings that the other party wasn’t “playing fair” – sometimes to the extent of jeopardising good relationships with the children. But practically every divorce is blighted by these feelings of rawness. I remember saying to my lawyer when the whole procedure started that I’d hoped that we could resolve it all “amicably”. I remember now the sad, sceptical smile that passed across her face when she told me that such an outcome was “unusual”.

This is partly because of the system. My lawyer explained to me bluntly that a divorce was about bargaining chips. The father uses the money and the mother uses the children. It’s all a game of poker. This adversarial system of handling family breakdown might work in corporate or criminal law but it is hopelessly inadequate for dealing with something as sensitive as divorce.

If de Bernières is to be believed, things are much the same as now. Motherhood, he says, is seen as sacred. Fathers tend to be seen by the court as optional extras – as long as they can come up with a cheque every week, their parental roles are secondary. Families, it seems, don’t need fathers.

De Bernières argues that equal parenting should be the norm. Much as I like the principle, I am not sure that this is a solution either – switching homes constantly for children might work for the adults but it’s not great for the children.

The stark fact is that fairness, when it comes to divorce, is impossible although things could be improved. The assumption that the mother will always be the best primary carer is ridiculous – though I confess to be at something of a loss to work out how you assess which parent would be the best. Certainly, whoever the absentee parent is, they should have quick and effective redress if access to their children is unfairly denied.

But fairness is impossible. All there is, is good intentions between the parents – or the lack of them. More than any other time in an adult’s life, divorce demands that the parents of children behave like adults and it is a test too many of us, both fathers and mothers, fail.

I feel great sympathy for de Bernières. But I would say three things: Don’t become bitter. Never speak ill of their mother to your children, no matter how much you are hurt. And, in the long run, the children will probably be OK – if they are lucky, they will have a father who is passionate about remaining a father, whatever obstacles are put in his path.

I like how he sums it up; it takes maturity, empathy and common goals to be able to share parenting in a way that is both healthy and satisfying for the parents and for the child(ren). There can be heartbreak on both sides and in the middle, and it's easy to fall into the trap of seeking vengeance or taking pot-shots at the ex. All this does is hurt the little one(s).

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

According to the Treoir document:



According to Citizens Information:



So it kind of covers all eventualities, without narrowing it down.

Now that we know that the parents pay for the dna test, why does the state care whether or not the mother resists naming the father or that there will be more paternity suits? TBH I dont think there would be that many. If the mothers want maintenance, which most of them do, they are going to have to name the father.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

Now that we know that the parents pay for the dna test, why does the state care whether or not the mother resists naming the father or that there will be more paternity suits? TBH I dont think there would be that many. If the mothers want maintenance, which most of them do, they are going to have to name the father.

Court-ordered maintenance is means-tested against benefits. That's why some mums allow dads to see their kids as long as they don't apply for guardianship etc, and pay cash in hand. I know someone who was given that choice: see your child, or fight for access/guardianship etc for the rest of your daughter's childhood. It's an awful quandary to face.

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Court-ordered maintenance is means-tested against benefits. That's why some mums allow dads to see their kids as long as they don't apply for guardianship etc, and pay cash in hand. I know someone who was given that choice: see your child, or fight for access/guardianship etc for the rest of your daughter's childhood. It's an awful quandary to face.

I understand that. But I dont understand the state's resistence. What's in it for them? Its not like single mothers are a huge voting consituency. I just dont get it.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

I understand that. But I dont understand the state's resistence. What's in it for them? Its not like single mothers are a huge voting consituency. I just dont get it.

Neither do I.:(

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Neither do I.:(

The only reason I can see, and its dubious, is they are afraid of lowering the status of marriage? And children within marriage? They want to maintain whatever privalege it still may have?

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

The only reason I can see, and its dubious, is they are afraid of lowering the status of marriage? And children within marriage? They want to maintain whatever privalege it still may have?

Absolutely. They probably figure keeping that risk of losing your rights to your kids would push you to marry the mum. A truly cynical way of looking at it but no doubt quite accurate. Marriage is to be cherished and any other family unit is second-best.

metrovelvet

Ok so they dont want to alienate or agitate their married constituents.

Klingon Hamlet

Minister Mary White was on THE LAST WORD this evening. Here is the recording:

THE LAST WORD

Fast-forward to 12:28. Fair play to her!:)

wolfpawnat

Women hold all the cards from the moment the child is concieved. When the child is born all a lot of women want is money off the dad and a lot of them want the One Parent Family Payment because it puts them on the pigs back. Some women only want the dads money, and full control. If they are not together or even if they are together, women use it as a stick to beat the dad with "if you get cheeky I'll leave and take the child with me and there's nothing you can do"

It takes 2 to make a baby, it should be automatic rights to both parents in all cases EXCEPT the likes of a rape case!

shortstuff

wolfpawnat wrote: »

When the child is born all a lot of women want is money off the dad and a lot of them want the One Parent Family Payment because it puts them on the pigs back.

Wolfpawnat you seem to be tarring all women who are one One Parent Family Allowence with the same brush, and as a single mother who has no choice but to claim this benefit I'm actually offended by this. My partner and I split up after it came to light that he had been having an affair for the last two years of our relationship. I was at the time on maternity leave from work following the birth of our second child. However due to physical voilence that i recieved after the birth of my child i couldn't stay in the family home as i feared for my safety. I had to move back into my parents home where i could only stay for a limited time as both my parents are elderly and ill and couldn't cope with having children so young in the house. I was left with no choice but to go on benefit as i couldn't afford a child minder after my return to work as well as the fact that i refused to leave a six month old baby with someone they didn't know(their father lookin after the children was not an option as he was working full time in a different part of the country). I have never denied him access to his chldren, he takes them overnight once a week and sees them sporadically at other times through out the year. If anything i wish he would see them more not for my benefit but both his sake and that of the children. He does pay maintenance but not enough to cover childcare costs in order to enable me to return to work, let alone have enough left over out of my pay check to pay rent, utilities and feed and clothe my children.
As for this leglislation that is possibly being introduced in Germany I can only see it as a good thing and hope it comes to Ireland sooner rather than later, however it is going to have to be more specific as things are never just plain black and white. There is always going to be parents who disagree on access/custody and parental rights and in those cases a third party is needed to help sort things out. I can see this working but only after the kinks are ironed out. In the meantime if it's introduced as it stands it's going to cause alot of heart ache, possibly even more than is already present.

shortstuff

wolfpawnat wrote: »

When the child is born all a lot of women want is money off the dad and a lot of them want the One Parent Family Payment because it puts them on the pigs back.

Wolfpawnat you seem to be tarring all women who are one One Parent Family Allowence with the same brush, and as a single mother who has no choice but to claim this benefit I'm actually offended by this. My partner and I split up after it came to light that he had been having an affair for the last two years of our relationship. I was at the time on maternity leave from work following the birth of our second child. However due to physical voilence that i recieved after the birth of my child i couldn't stay in the family home as i feared for my safety. I had to move back into my parents home where i could only stay for a limited time as both my parents are elderly and ill and couldn't cope with having children so young in the house. I was left with no choice but to go on benefit as i couldn't afford a child minder after my return to work as well as the fact that i refused to leave a six month old baby with someone they didn't know(their father lookin after the children was not an option as he was working full time in a different part of the country). I have never denied him access to his chldren, he takes them overnight once a week and sees them sporadically at other times through out the year. If anything i wish he would see them more not for my benefit but both his sake and that of the children. He does pay maintenance but not enough to cover childcare costs in order to enable me to return to work, let alone have enough left over out of my pay check to pay rent, utilities and feed and clothe my children.
As for this leglislation that is possibly being introduced in Germany I can only see it as a good thing and hope it comes to Ireland sooner rather than later, however it is going to have to be more specific as things are never just plain black and white. There is always going to be parents who disagree on access/custody and parental rights and in those cases a third party is needed to help sort things out. I can see this working but only after the kinks are ironed out. In the meantime if it's introduced as it stands it's going to cause alot of heart ache, possibly even more than is already present.

wolfpawnat

Shortstuff, if you notice in my post, I said "all a lot of women want" not all women want. Please do not take offence, I am merely trying to politely point the finger at a certain area of society with my comment, I at no stage wish to tar us all with the same brush. Physical abuse is something no man, woman or child should EVER had to put up with and you have my greatest respect for your strenght to leave! My son's father and I are no longer together, and I too depend on this payment as an income while finishing college.

I am sorry again if this has causes offence to you Shortstuff, please accept my sincerest apology.

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Shortstuff, if you notice in my post, I said "all a lot of women want" not all women want. Please do not take offence, I am merely trying to politely point the finger at a certain area of society with my comment, I at no stage wish to tar us all with the same brush. Physical abuse is something no man, woman or child should EVER had to put up with and you have my greatest respect for your strenght to leave! My son's father and I are no longer together, and I too depend on this payment as an income while finishing college.

I am sorry again if this has causes offence to you Shortstuff, please accept my sincerest apology.

A lot of blacks drink colt 45, a lot of Jews are in Hollywood and the jewellry trade, a lot of men practise sexual harrassment, a lot of asians are really good at math and taking up too much of the university scholarships available in America, yadda yadda.

What does that mean "on the pigs back?" btw.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

A lot of blacks drink colt 45, a lot of Jews are in Hollywood and the jewellry trade, a lot of men practise sexual harrassment, a lot of asians are really good at math and taking up too much of the university scholarships available in America, yadda yadda.

What does that mean "on the pigs back?" btw.

Metro with respect, you've stated that many men walk away, and use this as an excuse to justify Irish dads' limited rights. Yet when someone makes an equally brod generalisation of mums, you go on the offensive.

Wiki:

"On the pig's back" (Irish: ar m(h)uin na muice) is an Irish expression meaning to be in a fortunate situation, or living an easy or luxurious lifestyle. The saying has given its name to an Irish rewards website, Pigsback.com, and was parodied in Black Books, with main character Bernard Black drunkenly slurring nonsensically that he and Manny Bianco are "on the pig's back, charging through a velvet field".

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Metro with respect, you've stated that many men walk away, and use this as an excuse to justify Irish dads' limited rights. Yet when someone makes an equally brod generalisation of mums, you go on the offensive.

Wiki:

Just pointing it out, that's all.

Thanks for the definition. I had been under the impression alot of single parent families live on the poverty line. I did not know they lived a life of luxury and that alienating the father somehow made them richer. Im not sure exactly how this works but I guess I'll take the poster's word for it.

On reflection, the auto rights wont make a whole huge difference really, because it will be like the US courts. But what it will mean is that more courts and judges will have to be appointed for those situations where the fathers were granted rights and then disappeared because you will have to apply to the courts to make decisions in their absence. That would be the one practical problem I would see with it. Either way it makes no difference to my life whether they are automatic or not.

Klingon Hamlet

metrovelvet wrote: »

Just pointing it out, that's all.

Thanks for the definition. I had been under the impression alot of single parent families live on the poverty line. I did not know they lived a life of luxury and that alienating the father somehow made them richer. Im not sure exactly how this works but I guess I'll take the poster's word for it.

On reflection, the auto rights wont make a whole huge difference really, because it will be like the US courts. But what it will mean is that more courts and judges will have to be appointed for those situations where the fathers were granted rights and then disappeared because you will have to apply to the courts to make decisions in their absence. That would be the one practical problem I would see with it. Either way it makes no difference to my life whether they are automatic or not.

Disappearing dads aren't going to bring mums to court for making decisions without them. And they're a minority. These rights are for the majority. If we;re going to explore minorities, let's discuss the mums who do everything they can to exclude dads from their kids' lives, shall we?? That is something that takes up a lot of court time too, and something that will be prevented if/when the rights are made equal.

Think positive, Metro:)

metrovelvet

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Disappearing dads aren't going to bring mums to court for making decisions without them. And they're a minority. These rights are for the majority. If we;re going to explore minorities, let's discuss the mums who do everything they can to exclude dads from their kids' lives, shall we?? That is something that takes up a lot of court time too, and something that will be prevented if/when the rights are made equal.

Think positive, Metro:)

Maybe not. But if the other parent has equal rights and is gone you will have to go to court to get clearance for things, for example a passport.

wolfpawnat

metrovelvet wrote: »

A lot of blacks drink colt 45, a lot of Jews are in Hollywood and the jewellry trade, a lot of men practise sexual harrassment, a lot of asians are really good at math and taking up too much of the university scholarships available in America, yadda yadda.

And there are a lot of intelligent people in Universities and there are a lot of farmers in Ireland, it is a general statement it is not an attack on all women, Metrovelvet, we have so see that there are some of our sex that are downright €unts!

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Metro with respect, you've stated that many men walk away, and use this as an excuse to justify Irish dads' limited rights. Yet when someone makes an equally brod generalisation of mums, you go on the offensive.

That baffled me for a moment too! Here's another generalisation I think you will agree with Klington Hamlet; A lot of men leave, more men are pushed away, and more men stay but do not get the rights they want/deserve.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Thanks for the definition. I had been under the impression alot of single parent families live on the poverty line. I did not know they lived a life of luxury and that alienating the father somehow made them richer. Im not sure exactly how this works but I guess I'll take the poster's word for it.

That payment was made for families where the woman, or indeed the man has been left to raise children on their own, it is supposed to be the same as if the other person was there to contribute to the childrens upbringing. However if done correctly, you can add that payments to other ones available and you can live quite well for yourself if you know how to play the system, and it is these select people I was talking about in my previous posts!

metrovelvet wrote: »

On reflection, the auto rights wont make a whole huge difference really, because it will be like the US courts. But what it will mean is that more courts and judges will have to be appointed for those situations where the fathers were granted rights and then disappeared because you will have to apply to the courts to make decisions in their absence. That would be the one practical problem I would see with it. Either way it makes no difference to my life whether they are automatic or not.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Maybe not. But if the other parent has equal rights and is gone you will have to go to court to get clearance for things, for example a passport.

In Ireland as it stands, if your child needs a passport and you are not with the dad but his name is on the birthcert he can try and prevent it being issued. You will have to go to court to get that sorted as things are today. So that is nothing new. Most dads are frightened that women will use the passport to leave Ireland with the child to live abroad without consulting the man and that must be terrible for them!

I am only glad the tide is turning, that man who had the child with, I think she was Lithuanian, and she left Ireland with the child, she was ordered by the courts to return! He has paved the way for more dads to follow!!!!

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

And there are a lot of intelligent people in Universities and there are a lot of farmers in Ireland, it is a general statement it is not an attack on all women, Metrovelvet, we have so see that there are some of our sex that are downright €unts!




That baffled me for a moment too! Here's another generalisation I think you will agree with Klington Hamlet; A lot of men leave, more men are pushed away, and more men stay but do not get the rights they want/deserve.




That payment was made for families where the woman, or indeed the man has been left to raise children on their own, it is supposed to be the same as if the other person was there to contribute to the childrens upbringing. However if done correctly, you can add that payments to other ones available and you can live quite well for yourself if you know how to play the system, and it is these select people I was talking about in my previous posts!





In Ireland as it stands, if your child needs a passport and you are not with the dad but his name is on the birthcert he can try and prevent it being issued. You will have to go to court to get that sorted as things are today. So that is nothing new. Most dads are frightened that women will use the passport to leave Ireland with the child to live abroad without consulting the man and that must be terrible for them!

I am only glad the tide is turning, that man who had the child with, I think she was Lithuanian, and she left Ireland with the child, she was ordered by the courts to return! He has paved the way for more dads to follow!!!!

Ok. I suppose just because I dont know any women who have done what you are talking about doesn't mean they don't exist. I just happen to know more dads who disappear.

As for the passport, its not the case of the father being able to prevent it, its that you can't actually get one issued if he has guardianship or marital or divorced status and is gone without going to court. It has nothing to do with the name on the birthcert. I know this because of my own applications for it and there is no name on my son's birthcert. Because he has no guardianship, I have to submit an affadavit, but if he did I would have to go through the courts, name or no name. At least this is what the local guarda station told me.

I think the problem with child residency is going to become more and more of a problem with modernity, the recession, and citizenship. You have a lot of different nationalities living in Ireland and you have many children born here between two nationalities and cultures,and many of those children are not Irish citizens because Ireland doesn't have a terra firma citizenship law. [So what happens then, you're going to force people to live here who arent even citizens?] With the recession on top of that, you will find custodial parents and non custodial looking to far off shores to be able to provide a better life for their kids.

I just think its too complex, with too many individuals in individual circumstances, to make any kind of blanket opinion on policy.

angelfire9

On the passport issue if the father's name is on the birth cert and the parents get on ok the father can sign an additional red form in the passport application and consent to the passport being issued without any referral to court this is the situation with my niece where my sister and her ex have split but have joint custody and both patents get on well but just couldn't live together
the consent form has to ve stamped and witnessed by the gardai by the way

as for parental rights my brother in law had the misfortune to marry a total cow who is currently trying to screw him out of every penny he has including his pension (she has one herself and has already demanded 100% of the house) she doesn't comply with the court ordered access and makes seeing the kids as hard for him as she can!

shortstuff

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Shortstuff, if you notice in my post, I said "all a lot of women want" not all women want. Please do not take offence, I am merely trying to politely point the finger at a certain area of society with my comment, I at no stage wish to tar us all with the same brush. Physical abuse is something no man, woman or child should EVER had to put up with and you have my greatest respect for your strenght to leave! My son's father and I are no longer together, and I too depend on this payment as an income while finishing college.

I am sorry again if this has causes offence to you Shortstuff, please accept my sincerest apology.

Wolfpawnat, i really sorry for jumping on you like that when in fact it was my fault as i misread your post. I tend to see red when i see people saying that lone parents(in particular single mothers) are taking the easy road by refusing to work and claiming one parent family allowence.

I do think that if the leglislation was introduced to Ireland as it stands it would cause more problems than it solvess, and for the single dads who are commenting on this please don't take this the wrong way, but there are those so called "daddys" out there who don't want anything to do with their child/ren and only want to cause as much trouble for the mum as they possibly can. I find myself in a quite a laughable situation seeing as my ex of nine years is looking after our two children as best he can, but my daughter's father wants nothing to do with her, even went to so far as to hire an extremely expensive lawyer to try and get out of payin maintenance, although the only reason i went to court was to sort out the access rights for his benefit and my daughters not for maintenance. I know it's upsettin to you dad's who want to play an active role in your children's life when the s**t that's caused after a break-up throws a spanner in the works but you also have to remember that for the women whose ex's don't want to have anything to do with their child/ren it's a very difficult and emotional thing as well. Not all women are like you're ex's and most of us would love for our kids to have contact with not just their dad but the other side of their family(forgive me taking licence here in saying that ladies). At the end of the day all of us here want what's best for our children and I personally would have loved to have avoided the courts in the first place. but unfortunatly because my ex had been lying and telling his family that i'd been denying him access when i hadn't I was left with no recourse, when we did eventually make it to court the judge offered him access no less and three time and he blatently refused each and every time. I'm now left with the situation of a family that wants to get to know and see my daughter but won't until i give her "father" access even though he has refused it, he's lied and told them that i had it blocked in court. he wants nothing to do with her, how is this new leglisatation going to help women like me, help my daughter? the answer is it's not. It's only going to back the courts up even more, because i can promise you i'm not the only woman in this situation or one very similar. Our hands are tied. It needs to be assessed on a case by case basis, not made standard across the boards as it currently stands.

Sorry for the rather long post, I just thought that if the dad's here had a real life sceanario regarding other so called "dads" they might understand a bit more as to why so many mothers would have objections/reservations to new leglisation.