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Desert training and Taliban snipers ?

  • 31-07-2010 12:54pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭


    Watching Combat School on History channell last night about the Canadian army preparing for Afghanistan, I seen that they left the cold Canadian winter to train in the American desert for a few weeks to prepare for A'stan. Must say it was quite impressive with A'stan vets monitoring and when needed putting officers and privates right when they made a mistake. So I'm wondering

    A) Do European armies have desert training in some neutral enviorment before been sent to A'stan ?

    One of the vets told the trainees how they were making themselves easy targets standing around etc and that the Taliban had snipers that could take them out from 300 meters. So what I'm wondering is,

    B) do the Taliban snipers have proper snipers rifles or in general do they just use a standard AK47, even without a telescopic sight ?


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Corsendonk


    Well the AK47 isn't really the best weapon for sniping. The Afgan War has proven excellent sniper training ground for the Allies. I managed to find the below article on Wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills


    Article on Taliban sniper operating in 2010 but doesn't mention the gun he uses but most likely it is the SVD which has a range of 800m.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/04/12/sas-hunt-for-taliban-sniper-who-has-killed-7-brits-115875-22179406/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Watching Combat School on History channell last night about the Canadian army preparing for Afghanistan, I seen that they left the cold Canadian winter to train in the American desert for a few weeks to prepare for A'stan. Must say it was quite impressive with A'stan vets monitoring and when needed putting officers and privates right when they made a mistake. So I'm wondering

    A) Do European armies have desert training in some neutral enviorment before been sent to A'stan ?

    One of the vets told the trainees how they were making themselves easy targets standing around etc and that the Taliban had snipers that could take them out from 300 meters. So what I'm wondering is,

    B) do the Taliban snipers have proper snipers rifles or in general do they just use a standard AK47, even without a telescopic sight ?

    Read somewhere that the americans had sent in special counter sniping teams to deal witht the snipers and that more and more hides were being found with shells off nato rounds


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Steyr



    A) Do European armies have desert training in some neutral enviorment before been sent to A'stan ?


    The BA have The British Army Training Support Unit in Belize (BATSUB), they have a Junge warfare school in Brunei.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    One of the vets told the trainees how they were making themselves easy targets standing around etc and that the Taliban had snipers that could take them out from 300 meters. So what I'm wondering is,

    B) do the Taliban snipers have proper snipers rifles or in general do they just use a standard AK47, even without a telescopic sight ?

    300 metres would be impressive for someone like me, who was ( a long time ago) at best average. I've never fired a rifle with scope. I would expect that a scope would improve almost everyone provided they understood their marksmanship training ( elevation,range calculation,wind etc) Wouldn't have thought 300 yds would be a major distance for snipers and afghan males have a very long tradition, even in peacetime, of marksmanship.

    By coincidence saw this on the boards hunting forum, a guys first try at 300 yds. His post is followed by some very informative comments - might interest some of you.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055984232


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭troubleshooter


    Watching Combat School on History channell last night about the Canadian army preparing for Afghanistan, I seen that they left the cold Canadian winter to train in the American desert for a few weeks to prepare for A'stan. Must say it was quite impressive with A'stan vets monitoring and when needed putting officers and privates right when they made a mistake. So I'm wondering

    A) Do European armies have desert training in some neutral enviorment before been sent to A'stan ?

    One of the vets told the trainees how they were making themselves easy targets standing around etc and that the Taliban had snipers that could take them out from 300 meters. So what I'm wondering is,

    B) do the Taliban snipers have proper snipers rifles or in general do they just use a standard AK47, even without a telescopic sight ?


    Yes,in Kuwait or Kenya. The Taliban snipers mainly use SVD dragonov sniper rifles, counter sniper teams are deplyed against them. There is speculation Iran or pakistani intel. is training snipers and supplying these new modern weapons being used.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2df_1195961420


    Footage of training in Kuwait.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    I don't mean to boast, but in my time as a recruit in the Bundeswehr we bog standard conscript soldiers fired at 300 m targets with an even more bog standard G3 without any special sights or special ammunition ...and most of us hit them as well :D (and consistently at that)

    300 m is well within hitable range for a decent rifle and a semi-competent shooter


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    300 metres would be impressive for someone like me, who was ( a long time ago) at best average. I've never fired a rifle with scope. I would expect that a scope would improve almost everyone provided they understood their marksmanship training ( elevation,range calculation,wind etc) Wouldn't have thought 300 yds would be a major distance for snipers and afghan males have a very long tradition, even in peacetime, of marksmanship.

    By coincidence saw this on the boards hunting forum, a guys first try at 300 yds. His post is followed by some very informative comments - might interest some of you.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055984232
    Good link there Wicklow, very informative. So if a Joe Bloggs could develop the ability to kill efficently with little trianing as in the link, an Afghan as you say, with their tradition, even in peacetime, of marksmanship, would have little problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    Steyr wrote: »
    The BA have The British Army Training Support Unit in Belize (BATSUB), they have a Junge warfare school in Brunei.
    Belize is in Central America, at the bottom of Mexico ? Done a quick Google search - training desert british army - and only came up with very little, ( wiki links to SAS desert training etc )

    And does anyone know about the other armies from Europe. Doesn't seem they are as well prepared as the Canadians or Americans ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    peasant wrote: »
    I don't mean to boast, but in my time as a recruit in the Bundeswehr we bog standard conscript soldiers fired at 300 m targets with an even more bog standard G3 without any special sights or special ammunition ...and most of us hit them as well :D (and consistently at that)

    300 m is well within hitable range for a decent rifle and a semi-competent shooter
    Does the German army receive any desert training in a neutral county before heading off to Af'stan ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Corsendonk


    peasant wrote: »
    I don't mean to boast, but in my time as a recruit in the Bundeswehr we bog standard conscript soldiers fired at 300 m targets with an even more bog standard G3 without any special sights or special ammunition ...and most of us hit them as well :D (and consistently at that)

    300 m is well within hitable range for a decent rifle and a semi-competent shooter

    Well the americans have been concerned for years by how much ammo there troops go through to actually hit a target. You can get away with that type of fighting if your supply lines are secure.

    The French use Djibouti for dessert training for there regular army and the legion. Some US marines have done dessert training there with french instructors. The british have a close relationship with Oman and have conducted exercises there in the recent past but I dont know if its a regular army training site for them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭troubleshooter


    Belize is in Central America, at the bottom of Mexico ? Done a quick Google search - training desert british army - and only came up with very little, ( wiki links to SAS desert training etc )

    And does anyone know about the other armies from Europe. Doesn't seem they are as well prepared as the Canadians or Americans ?


    Why dont you wind your neck in for a while and read the link. The Germans also train in Camp Buehring Kuwait along with other NATO/coalition troops.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67217883&postcount=6


    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2df_1195961420

    Footage of Brits at camp Buehring.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    Why dont you wind your neck in for a while and read the link. The Germans also train in Camp Buehring Kuwait along with other NATO/coalition troops.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67217883&postcount=6


    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2df_1195961420

    Footage of Brits at camp Buehring.
    Unlike you I don't need to wind my neck in as I'm not the one who likes to think he's an expert on wars and military strategy. And my reply to steyr's post regarding Belize, was just a query as to how training there could prepare soldiers for desert warfare as from what I've seen on a nature documentary Belize appears to be mainly jungle/tropical countryside.

    Simples :rolleyes:.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,311 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Read somewhere that the americans had sent in special counter sniping teams to deal witht the snipers and that more and more hides were being found with shells off nato rounds
    Not surprising when you consider how much stuff gets hijacked on it's way through Pakistan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 599 ✭✭✭FoamyMushroom


    All i have to say is something on the Sniper they use, Read an article a while ago and seen videos, the Taliban use draganovs, with a powerful telescopic scope and it fires a heavy 7.62 round >.<


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    In my time with the Lee Enfield and FN. Even us 'sandbags' were expected to put rounds through the target at 300 yards using iron sights and bog standard battered rifles. That's not sniping. That's basic infantry training.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Well, sniping is to do with method and technique, not range.

    Although you are correct. 300m iron sights is on the standard US Army basic rifle qualification as well.

    NTM


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    I too have hit the target at 300 m using the steyr's battle sights, its very doable and even though we've a 1.5 scope its expected that you be able to do this, who knows when your scope will get damaged in battle (tough as they are) or worse (in the RDF ive seen this at least once or twice) will be missing part of the reticle markings!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Standard 300m competitive shooting has a ten ring 100mm across, and there are no telescopic sights involved. A good group would be sub two-inch. That's roughly what kind of accuracy is possible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    Belize is in Central America, at the bottom of Mexico ? Done a quick Google search - training desert british army - and only came up with very little, ( wiki links to SAS desert training etc )

    And does anyone know about the other armies from Europe. Doesn't seem they are as well prepared as the Canadians or Americans ?

    In the book 3 Para the Bn went to Oman to carry out the Pre Deployment Training.


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