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Indoor vs Outdoor Cat - help?
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31-07-2010 4:37pmA lot of the material written about indoor vs outdoor cats seems to be written from an American point of view (I don't think there any danger of coyotes here, for example!) so I wanted to get some Irish feedback.
We adopted a five year old cat; his owner had died and he lived rough for a while, fed by neighbours. We live in a fairly large ground floor apartment with a patio and large bright windows facing out onto a central green with bushes. The apartment is in a fairly quiet complex in the suburbs, away from traffic.
After reading the various advice, especialy concerning how indoor cats live longer and pick up less diseases (when we got him, he had both ear and eye infections), we decided to try that.
However, after 2 months, it seems that he hasn't really adapted to being indoors. He cries quite a lot, pacing around and pawing the windows. We've tried giving him toys; he has absolutely no interest in them. He does use the litter tray fine, although once or twice we found wet patches on the hallway floor (not sure if it was urine or spraying?)
Anyway, we're considering now letting him out during the day, for him to come back at night. Any advice gratefully accepted!
P.0
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At the end of the day it's your choice, gather up as much info as possible, weigh up the pro's and con's and make a decision. Some cats will reach a grand old age with access to outdoors, other's will not make it past the first few years. It's a bit of a lottery really.
There are so so many risks to allowing cats freedom to go outside (presuming they can leave your garden), cars, people who think it's fun to kick cats (and trust me there are loads of 'kids' who think it's great fun to torture cats by kicking, burning or shooting them with pellet guns, just do a google search and you'l come up with loads of accounts of cruelty), farmers who will shoot them if they are worrying livestock (more so poultry than sheep or cows), and then there are do-gooders who will adopt cats thinking they are strays (cats have an uncanny ability at pretending they are starving).
There is also the damage cats can do to wildlife by catching birds, do a search here as there has been loads of debates about cats hunting and the damage they do/do not do to wildlife. There are also people who will admit to shooting cats if they see them hunting birds that visit their gardens.
You could let him out every day and bring him in at night, that will greatly reduce the chances of him getting knocked down, but there might be a day when he doesn't come home, just look for a thread started recently where someone's poor cat got knocked down during the day.
If he isin't happy indoors you could get him used to a harness and lead and bring him for walks around the green. You will get loads of odd looks but at the end of the day it's the cat's happiness that matters. I walk my cat around our garden on a harness, it's not the same as walking a dog, you just follow wherever the cat goes but it keeps them safe. Another option is getting a cat run, it might not be possible in an apartment complex to build a permanent one but you can buy metal runs that you can just dismantle and set up again if you move. I think cilldara do them.
Is the cat neutered? Neutering will reduce the cat's need to wander away from home if you do decide to let him out.
Personally I keep my cat indoors all the time, I walk her around the garden on a lead and Im thinking of building a cat run for her. I decided to keep her indoors because I live near a reasonably busy road, she was let out as a kitten (after being neutered) and it was just too stressful for me when she started going away for a few hours at a time, I was always worrying if she would come back at all, one day I even looked out my window to see her sitting on the side of the road watching cars go by, if she had seen a bird on the other side of the road she would have been hit by a car.0 -
I have 2 cats, what i do is leave the window open during the day when im home but if i was going away id keep them in and also they are in at night, they dont have to go out and sometimes they dont bother.
I think from watching them climbing trees and chasing birds that its nice for them to have some freedom if it is a safe area. Saying that my tom took off for almost a week the fecker and i seriously considered keeping him indoors.
Some people are adamant about keeping cats indoors but only u can decide what works for u and your kitty0 -
OP it seems obvious that yours is an outdoors cat, so let him roam outdoors and be a happy cat. By their nature, cats tend to be nocturnal (and are uniquely equipped to manage night-time forays); try keeping him in in the day-time for snoozies and let him roam free at night. If this doesn't satisfy him, try the opposite, once he's house-trained.
As cats are a non-native species here, there are risks to natives from cats and risks to cats from the environment. How each of us manages / balances these issues is a dilemma; I have no simple "cure-all" I'm afraid, other than to go back to all native species (eliminate zebra mussels, rhododendrons, mink, grey squirrels, domestic cats, rainbow trout, non-native deer, the massively damaging and intrusive "pine forests" in upland bogs, etc. etc.0 -
My cat is mainly an indoor cat for two reasons, my last cat died because she ate anti freeze someone had thrown in their driveway, and we live near a busy enough little road, busy during the day.
I let him out sometimes, mainly in the evening or at night because the road is pretty quiet then, but he never even really goes near the front of the house, he stays in the back garden with the dog. But I find it stressful letting him outside in case he dies in a similar way to my previous cat. He has company in the house anyway with the dog so I don't feel too bad. He's a pretty lazy cat though, would never paw or cry to get out, sleep is more his thing so it's easier than your cat.0 -
My Cat is 9 she goes in and out of the house as she pleases. We had a cat before her who dissapeared after a year. Do what ever keeps the cat happy.0
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You say you have a large patio area, would it be possible to fence it?
That way the cat could go in and out and be safe. Its not that hard really, I have friends in London with flats that have big balcony's, they fence them in over there to keep cats safe(its quite common now) and cats are happy sitting outside. If you do this put out a litter tray outside, also the ones I saw in London had grown cat grass and potted plants to give shade and places to hide(one even has a water feature the cat drinks from). The wire they used wasn't very thick and you could hardly see it from the ground.0 -
If he wants to go out let him go, but give him less food before.
It always brings them back home but be aware of a fact that one day he may not come back.0 -
we have always let our cats out, they mostly stay around the garden.
I recently rescued an older cat that I was told was an outdoor cat. we kept him in for a week and then let him out for short periods at a time just before dinner time. He always comes back. In fact he normally sits on the wall waiting for my car just so he can come in for food and a nap.
I personally think outdoor cats are happier cats, I make sure he is vaccinated, wormed and has regular flee treatment (just in case). Im sure there are safety benefits to keeping them indoors but iv always found my cats are very happy having some freedom.
I hope this helps! Try not to worry too much, cats are very clever and know how to look after themselves!0 -
The cat is used to being outdoors, so it is cruel to now try and keep in indoors all the time. If the cat has it's vaccinations upto date then he'll be alright. Let him enjoy his freedom and live a happy cat life0
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If you allow your cat to roam freely, you have absolutely no control whatsoever as to what happens to him.
Cats have a potential lifespan of 15 years, and I personally know a few over 20 years of age. I don't understand the failure to connect roaming with early death - perhaps it's because some cats just don't come home, so their owners don't know the reality of their fate?
Dangers to cats in Ireland include disease, fights with other cats that can result in wounds, infection, abscesses, broken teeth, ripped out claws, so on. Fights with dogs can result in serious injury or death. Roaming cats that are friendly risk being captured by people who will torture and/or kill the cats, or may use them as bait animals in blooding fighting dogs.
In suburban areas, roaming cats can create a nuisance by spraying urine and crapping in other people's gardens. Roaming cats can also create a problem for people with indoor cats, because by sitting and peering in the window, they can cause the indoor cat sufficient stress to require medication.
Diseases cats can contract through contact with other cats vary, but can include FIV (feline aids), FeLV, (feline leukaemia).
If you let your cat out, he'll be absolutely fine.
Absolutely fine right up to the moment he's not fine at all - and by allowing him to roam freely, you relinquish any control you have over that moment.
I do believe cats with access to outdoor stimulus are more interested and can be healthier than entirely indoor cats, but I also believe in cat-proofed fences and outdoor enclosures.0 -
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I'm sure owners who let their cats out are well aware of the hazards it could come across, but are more concerened with the cat leading a natural happy life of having access to outdoors. Ferral cats only live to around 6yrs, Domestic indoor cats longer and Domestic outdoor inbetween. Keeping a cat indoors out of its natural habitat just so you can prolong its life for the humans sake is cruel. You wouldn't keep a kid locked up so that no harm comes to it! The OP's cat has been living as an outdoor cat for 5 years so it would be very cruel to coup it indoors now, the cat is crying to get outside. Domestic cats that are neutered/Spayed don't roam as far and you can vaccinate against FIV cat flue etc. Sure a cat may get into the odd scrap or get run over but It'll have a full natural happy life. Everytime someone drives a car they are putting themselves at risk of a road crash but you'de take the risk for a decent life.0
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flowerific wrote: »I'm sure owners who let their cats out are well aware of the hazards it could come across, but are more concerened with the cat leading a natural happy life of having access to outdoors. Ferral cats only live to around 6yrs, Domestic indoor cats longer and Domestic outdoor inbetween. Keeping a cat indoors out of its natural habitat just so you can prolong its life for the humans sake is cruel. You wouldn't keep a kid locked up so that no harm comes to it! The OP's cat has been living as an outdoor cat for 5 years so it would be very cruel to coup it indoors now, the cat is crying to get outside. Domestic cats that are neutered/Spayed don't roam as far and you can vaccinate against FIV cat flue etc. Sure a cat may get into the odd scrap or get run over but It'll have a full natural happy life. Everytime someone drives a car they are putting themselves at risk of a road crash but you'de take the risk for a decent life.
You say feral cats live to around 6 years, from my experience very few reach 6 years, and whatever length of life they live is absolute misery. The females produce litter after litter, the males fight but both end up more often than not very sickly and injured. I knew a feral cat that spent most of it's life with a crooked front leg because it had broken it ages ago but it had never seen a vet so it set at a right angle to it's body. I'l not go on because the OP's cat is not feral.
The OP asked for advice, not to be told that keeping a cat out of it's natural environment is cruel. You can't equate kids to humans. You can educate a child and teach them that it's not ok to play in traffic, you cannot sit down beside a cat and explain to them it's not ok to walk across the road without looking both ways.
Have a read of this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055903322 very interesting views from both sides of the debate.
Before deciding to just let the cat outside please look at other ways of letting it have restricted access to outdoors, at least then you have tried, I know the heartbreak of losing a much loved cat and I would not want another person going through it.0 -
A lot of the material written about indoor vs outdoor cats seems to be written from an American point of view (I don't think there any danger of coyotes here, for example!) so I wanted to get some Irish feedback.
We adopted a five year old cat; his owner had died and he lived rough for a while, fed by neighbours. We live in a fairly large ground floor apartment with a patio and large bright windows facing out onto a central green with bushes. The apartment is in a fairly quiet complex in the suburbs, away from traffic.
After reading the various advice, especialy concerning how indoor cats live longer and pick up less diseases (when we got him, he had both ear and eye infections), we decided to try that.
However, after 2 months, it seems that he hasn't really adapted to being indoors. He cries quite a lot, pacing around and pawing the windows. We've tried giving him toys; he has absolutely no interest in them. He does use the litter tray fine, although once or twice we found wet patches on the hallway floor (not sure if it was urine or spraying?)
Anyway, we're considering now letting him out during the day, for him to come back at night. Any advice gratefully accepted!
P.
I remember being once told by an American that the average life expectancy for cats that are allowed outdoors is 2-3 years... I frankly couldn't believe it.
I've never had an indoor cat myself, all our moggies were always allowed to go outside, and all of them lived to ripe old age (17-19 years usually).
That said there most definitely are dangers in the outside world, from speeding cars to nasty people to foxes and straying dogs.
I think that if your cat is used to living outside, it will be very difficult if not next to impossible to get him used to living only inside.
Are there any dogs that would be left to run around by themselves? You said there isn't much traffic, are there any other outdoors cats in the area?
We usually let our cat wander around during the day, but I make her come inside for the night.0 -
We have two cats one who lives outside (wild cat) and one who lives inside. The outdoor cat was born in our back yard along with his mum and sister who have since moved on. But he has remained. We have provided an outdoor home and he is fed twice a day so he is well looked after but he still gets bullied by other outdoor cats male and female. He must be 3 at this stage. Sasha on the otherhand lives completely inside. But you need to provide stimulation for him or he will reck the furniture. He seems happy but he also likes to hang around windows when they are slightly ajar.0
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flowerific wrote: »I'm sure owners who let their cats out are well aware of the hazards it could come across, but are more concerened with the cat leading a natural happy life of having access to outdoors. Ferral cats only live to around 6yrs, Domestic indoor cats longer and Domestic outdoor inbetween. Keeping a cat indoors out of its natural habitat just so you can prolong its life for the humans sake is cruel. You wouldn't keep a kid locked up so that no harm comes to it! The OP's cat has been living as an outdoor cat for 5 years so it would be very cruel to coup it indoors now, the cat is crying to get outside. Domestic cats that are neutered/Spayed don't roam as far and you can vaccinate against FIV cat flue etc. Sure a cat may get into the odd scrap or get run over but It'll have a full natural happy life. Everytime someone drives a car they are putting themselves at risk of a road crash but you'de take the risk for a decent life.
Actually feral cats in an urban environment have an average lifespan of 2 years.
For an indoor-only cat, the average is 15 to 16 yrs+
You cannot vaccinate against FIV - there is no vaccine available in this country. You can vaccinate against FeLV but it is not without risks.
Flowerific, many if not most cats live very happily indoor-only. I agree that for some cats that have been used to roaming outdoors, the transition can be difficult, but it's not true in all cases. I have a stray here with me for the last six weeks. He's about 8 or 9 years of age. Not once in those six weeks has he looked to go outside. And this fella has been a stray for a very long time.
On the other hand, as the result of living a "natural" life out of doors, he came to me with the following health complaints;- FIV
- Torn ears
- Chronic double ear infection from scarring as a result of fighting other males
- Missing half his teeth from fighting other males
- Cat lice
- Non-union fracture of the humerus
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Thanks for the advice, all. In the end, we decided it was the best option to let the Pudster out during the day while we're working. It got to the stage he was clawing the windowsill so hard to get out, he lost a claw which got stuck into it, and he was also peeing around the place (my wife, bless her, tried to argue it wasn't him, but a "mysterious" leak...
I get the feeling he doesn't wander far at all; if we're there when he's let out, he pretty much roams the grass patch and bushes opposite our apartment. He's always back in the evening, looking for his dinner (knows where his bread is buttered....), and we keep in in overnight (though once or twice he's gone to the back door and cried, he's overall happy enough to stay in and sleep at night.)
P.0 -
Thanks for the advice, all. In the end, we decided it was the best option to let the Pudster out during the day while we're working. It got to the stage he was clawing the windowsill so hard to get out, he lost a claw which got stuck into it, and he was also peeing around the place (my wife, bless her, tried to argue it wasn't him, but a "mysterious" leak...
I get the feeling he doesn't wander far at all; if we're there when he's let out, he pretty much roams the grass patch and bushes opposite our apartment. He's always back in the evening, looking for his dinner (knows where his bread is buttered....), and we keep in in overnight (though once or twice he's gone to the back door and cried, he's overall happy enough to stay in and sleep at night.)
P.
Keeping him in can be done, I wouldnt have thought so but my guy is coming around to it. Recently the vets warned that i may have to start doing regular tests for feline hiv.Since then i have reduced the amount of time he has access to outside,like your guy he doesnt actually go too far. So i leave it at about an hour a day, call him back in and lock the doors. He is adjusting to it really well.
Except for this week cause im guessing the females are in heat or something!! He is going mad to get out. I dont let him out at all at this time cause he will certainly get in a fight. He is having some major tantrums and destruction but its for the best. My hope is to keep him in full time but im working towards it. Just have to cut back the food,without the extra exercise he is getting chubby;)
good luck with your guy!!0 -
Just bumping this in case anyone can offer further advice on this Indoor-Outdoor debate.
My story involves two female kittens we got from the DSPCA that are both now approx 7 months. Both are spayed and healthy with no real behavioural problems and they are both very happy and well cared for.
We have gotten into a routine of giving them 1 supervised hour a day in the back garden, and a couple of hours more on Saturday and Sunday. One of them, the slightly younger of the two, whines to get out A LOT! As soon as she is in she wants to go back out. She just loves the outside and, even during the snow, wanted to be out. Today, in the blink of an eye and for the first time, she manage to scale the back wall. This gave her access to the entire length of two housing estates (that back onto one another) and she wasn't going to waste the opportunity, so off she went.
Now, worry kicked in because she is so young and she is an amazingly friendly cat. Very affectionate and very trusting. Aware of the dangers, particularly to a cat that is approachable, I kept watch from upstairs in the house in the hope that fear would kick in after a few houses and she would turn back. She didn't and off she went down along the houses farther than I could see, until she came back into view going along a fence in a house in the estate behind ours. F**K!
I couldn't hack the wait so I scurried around (though the houses are quite close it is a good 8 min walk) and luckily saw her in a front garden just scoping around. Realising who I was she came towards me with a friendly meow. I grabbed her and began the walk back. It looked like I was stealing someones pet! Nobody would know me in that neighbourhood so it did look dodgy. The walk back was hell as I had to hold her VERY tight and there was a main road alongside us which scared the hell out of her. She was wailing and people kept staring at me.
Anyway, she is home safe. Perhaps I am underestimating her but I do think she would still be out if I didn't take the chance and run around. It's not something I want to happen again. We had been undecided for a while, but always leaning towards keeping them in (the other one has no interest in leaving the garden). Now it is decided and we are going to arrange a couple of runs and an eye-pleasing enclosure for the back garden.
If anyone has any good pictures/creative ideas for a good enclosure please do post.
She is so wily so I do fear more escapes. Yet she is so friendly I think it would be more cruel to allow her to roam rather than to keep her safe with limited outdoor access.0 -
From my point of view, we have three cats.
We got two of them when they were kittens and they have always been indoor cats. We occasionally let them out for supervised play in the back garden and the girl rarely wants to scale any walls. She is completely happy roaming around the garden. Her brother on the other hand is a nosey little git and constantly tries to escape!
Recently we adopted a new young cat who turned up on our doorstep. She would appear to have always been an outdoor cat due to the condition of her (this is all outlined in the "are we being adopted thread").
Anyway, she marched into the house about three weeks ago and has left the house once in the meantime. She seems perfectly happy to be indoors the whole time and we're getting the impression that she is more interested in the other two cats than us. She follows them around the house all day long and tries to interact with them. (They're slowly accepting her but there are still occasionally fights!)
So it's a weird one. Maybe she's happy to be indoors because the weather isn't great but she never howls to be let out. She howls to have the blinds opened in the morning so she can see out though!
I think she knows she's onto a winner with us suckers and is milking us for everything she can get.0 -
We adopted 2 a few months ago. They're just over a year old.
I think cats should be outdoor animals to an extent, but I worry terribly when they're out. We are in a very quiet housing estate, right at the back, but I know accidents still happen. Having said that, we kept ours in for about 5 weeks, then let them out.....in about 20 mins, they had discovered they could go over the fence, and off they went. I was exactly like you, looking out the upstairs windows!
They did come back a short while later. Since then, they haven't gone that far, they tend to sit outside the back door mostly. One of them likes taking a little trip over the fence onto nearby shed roofs - she likes having a poke around in the morning and then she comes back. The other...well you practically have to push her out the door!!
I don't know if there's a right or wrong here. We keep ours in at night, from about 5 in the evening, as I know they tend to roam further at night. Because I'm at home during the day (unemployed!), it suits me us to let them in and out. But if I wasn't here, they would probably be outside during our working hours - well, in good weather anyway.
So yeah.Unsure.Start by keeping them in at night I suppose, and see how you go from there??0 -
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You have a number of options with your two female cats:
Cat-proof your back yard or build them a cat enclosure
Keep them in all the time
Continue to allow them only supervised outdoor access
Let them out during the day to come and go as they please
Each of these options carries a measure of risk - even keeping them indoors all of the time. The risk with keeping them permanently indoors is a risk of anxiety-related health issues. The risk with allowing them to come and go as they please is that you expose them to a huge range of unpleasant and potentially fatal risk factors.
You have to find something that sits well with you and stick to it. If you let them out and stress about whether or not they'll be okay but continue to allow them unfettered outdoor access anyway, you are going to feel very, very stupid indeed the day one of them doesn't come back.
A lot of it is risk/reward as well - cats indulge in behaviour that provides a high reward, just the same way as dogs, and as humans. Leaving the garden for an adventure provides a high reward - excitement, new smells and sounds, so on. Your cat who went quite a distance probably didn't intend that - she most probably got on top of a wall and it was easier to keep going forwards than it was to turn around on the narrow wall and retreat.
However, she has a tiny fuzznut cat brain, so it's up to you to rescue her in a situation like that - and good that you did. If you hadn't, she may not have found her way home, or she could easily have run afoul of something in her naive and inexperienced youth while trying to make her way home.
I'm lucky in that I have a large yard, but I also have six cats and they aren't allowed to roam. Sometimes they escape due to circumstances beyond my control - for instance, one day in September the neighbours dog dug under the fence from her side, creating a gap big enough for one of my cats to get through. He was gone nine hours, and when he returned he had a scalping wound on one thigh and a deep puncture in his groin from a dog attack. The initial treatment for the injuries cost me $112 at the vet, but the cat also brought home a dose of chlamydia - perhaps from contact with a stray or feral cat while holed up, injured, hiding? - and he spread that around my multicat household, so treating him was a further $80 and treating two of my other cats was $80 plus $40 (meds only) for the third one... So one outing involves a dog attack plus $312 for relatively minor injuries.
He's lucky the dog didn't kill him.
Still, I continue to let my cats out into the yard and we basically blocked off the fence bottoms on that shared boundary so it won't happen again - plus the neighbour has realised her dog digs at the fence line and she's lined up a row of bricks to stop the dog on her side, which is good.
Ways to make my yard interesting for my cats: I have a section I leave completely feral. It has a compost heap, I let the grass get long (up to two feet), there are a couple of bales of old straw in that bit, and I'm sure there are fieldmice (I live on a fenced block that's just over 1/4 acre so it's a large garden). The feral section is probably three metres by three metres. I have a second feral section, two metres by two metres, where again I let the grass grow up over an old pile of mushroom compost and that provides (1) a lookout hill, (2) a hiding place and (3) a venue for 'king of the castle' games.
Putting aside intense house-pride over my yard has allowed me to balance those feral spots with a neat yard otherwise, but those two feral spots are sufficient reward to keep my cats in my yard. They don't test the fences - if they find a new break or hole or gap opportunistically, yes they'll go through it and I have to deal with that when it happens, but they don't plan the great escape every time they're outdoors.
What do I get out of it?
No worry. Cats who have the best of both worlds - fresh air and outdoor exercise, plus dramatically reduced risk from cars, dogs, other cats, disease and malicious injury from humans. Entertainment - watching them play in the feral patches of the garden is better than telly. Enjoyment of pet ownership without the impending stress of spending a night with a torch looking for my cat and then posting on boards.ie that my cat has run away and now I'm not sure what to do, because despite the fact that he always came back before, now it's been 48 hours and I'm at a loss.
So on.0 -
We adopted a cat recently. He came to us when he was about 6 months old and likes to get out from time to time, but despite the neutering and collar I get pretty worried about him doing something stupid. Plus he's super-friendly so he'd probably follow anyone who gave him a bit of petting!
I think I'm going to try limiting him to supervised outdoor access, which would have to be in the neighbour's yard (I live in a city centre apartment). But they have a cat too, so at least they can play. There are a couple of strays in the neighbourhood though and I don't want him to get beaten up. At least he happily stays in all night.0
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