Phoenix Park Tunnel

Rud

Has security in and around Heuston station eased off so much that people can now walk off platforms and take pictures in the tunnel?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055974041&page=11
(the pics are on post #156)


Surely this is a serious case of trespassing and a breach of health and safety.I'm not trying to spoil the fun of whoever took the pictures and i am well aware of how the tunnel isn't used that regularly but the likes of this spoils it for others by putting themselves in such danger and totally ignoring warnings towards trespassing??

Hungerford

All I can say to this is: :eek:

And also that the photographer would be toast if a train did come along the tunnel.

Side Show Bob

Rud wrote: »

Has security in and around Heuston station eased off so much that people can now walk off platforms and take pictures in the tunnel?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055974041&page=11
(the pics are on post #156)


Surely this is a serious case of trespassing and a breach of health and safety.I'm not trying to spoil the fun of whoever took the pictures and i am well aware of how the tunnel isn't used that regularly but the likes of this spoils it for others by putting themselves in such danger and totally ignoring warnings towards trespassing??

Get a life!

steamengine

Side Show Bob wrote: »

Get a life!

To be fair the OP is trying to advise people to hang on to 'the life' they have. If you read the other posts around it 'instructions' are given on how to reach the tunnel. Irresponsible IMO !!!

HonalD

Side Show Bob wrote: »

Get a life!

+1 Great picture

Run_to_da_hills

An IE or security personnel could also have an interest in photography. :rolleyes:

Great Photos +1 again.

Rud

Side Show Bob wrote: »

Get a life!

Thanks for that valuable input there.Well done

Side Show Bob

Rud wrote: »

Thanks for that valuable input there.Well done

You’re very welcome, glad to be of assistance!

-Chris-

Effects wrote: »

chisel wrote: »

I know commenting is bold, but love those shots from the tunnel effects.

How hard is it to get to the tunnel?

From the Heuston end it's easy, you just walk off one of the platforms. Coming from the other side you have to walk on the line from cabra for about 2 km before you get to the tunnel. Even though it's rarely used these days I wouldn't recommend people to walk it. It can be dangerous and it is trespassing. It's something myself and a friend had on our tick list for years and just got around to it lately.

To be fair, even the photographer warns against going down there. I'd hardly think it's irresponsible posting or anything...

Oliver1985

Prob a staff!!

Pittens

Good photos tbh.

DWCommuter

The refreshing part for me is that it was most likely NOT an enthusiast trespassing.:D

Rud

Pittens wrote: »

Good photos tbh.

They are great photos,i just find the whole thing that little bit irresponsible while at the same time i am quite jealous that they have got away with getting down into the tunnel and getting some great shots!

murphaph

Hungerford wrote: »

And also that the photographer would be toast if a train did come along the tunnel.

Luckily for the photographer, that doesn't happen very often.

Cookie_Monster

Rud wrote: »

while at the same time i am quite jealous that they have got away with getting down into the tunnel and getting some great shots!

there is nothing stopping you from going down there either apart from the risk of getting caught trespassing...

Alt_Grrr

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there is nothing stopping you from going down there either apart from the risk of getting caught trespassing...

or being killed by an oncoming train...

SeanW

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

or being killed by an oncoming train...

Despite the PPT being a key transport link in Dublin City, with a full loading gauge, twin track welded rail on concrete sleepers ... the chances of the photographer being hit by a train are next to zero.

Cookie_Monster

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

or being killed by an oncoming train...

:rolleyes:

as Seanw said...

OurLadyofKnock

Amazing photograph. Thanks for alerting us to it.

Rud

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:rolleyes:

as Seanw said...

so basically what your saying is it is ok to hop down onto any track in the country as long as it's quiet and not much chance of getting hit by a train?

-Corkie-

Rud wrote: »

so basically what your saying is it is ok to hop down onto any track in the country as long as it's quiet and not much chance of getting hit by a train?

No he didnt. Stop being so pedantic and get a life.

Rud

Get a life yourself if you have nothing good to say please don't be butting into the conversation just to have a dig

-Corkie-

Rud wrote: »

Get a life yourself if you have nothing good to say please don't be butting into the conversation just to have a dig

Public forum Im afraid....;)

OurLadyofKnock

Rud wrote: »

so basically what your saying is it is ok to hop down onto any track in the country as long as it's quiet and not much chance of getting hit by a train?

The person who took the photo is an artist and a good one at that. Did he/she get hit by a train taking this photo... not at all. Did they do something potentially dangerous? Yes, but no one got hurt and the result is bloody spectacular. It wasn't THAT dangerous.

It is also a socially important image too. Basically, when you think about it, he/she got a photo of the Irish version of Bigfoot or the Lough Ness Monster. Most Irish people including IE managers refuse to believe that this tunnel even exists.

Again to the original photographer. Thank you very much!!!

corktina

Obviously the Irony is lost on some so let me explain that SeanW was making a point that the PPT is an under-utilised asset that could be made far more use of except that IE choose not to. Despite being in good condition it is used only for stock transfers and the very occasional sportfan special. A criminal waste.

DWCommuter

corktina wrote: »

Obviously the Irony is lost on some so let me explain that SeanW was making a point that the PPT is an under-utilised asset that could be made far more use of except that IE choose not to. Despite being in good condition it is used only for stock transfers and the very occasional sportfan special. A criminal waste.

My kind of thinking, but I can't condone trespassing after my incredible accusations against the enthusiast/railtour fraternity.:D*

*Its obvious that this particular (and brilliant) photo was not taken by an enthusiast.

The PPT story rolls on and on. Like Navan - Drogheda, it will take on even more relevence in these penniless times....with a bit of imagination and a lack of a "what we can't do" mentality.

Victor

Play nice folks.

SeanW

corktina wrote: »

Obviously the Irony is lost on some so let me explain that SeanW was making a point that the PPT is an under-utilised asset that could be made far more use of except that IE choose not to. Despite being in good condition it is used only for stock transfers and the very occasional sportfan special. A criminal waste.

Thanks for the clarification Corktina, that's exactly what I meant. Obviously my own post wasn't clear enough for some, this I should not have expected.

As an aside, I don't think I.E. even uses the tunnel for sports trains anymore, nowadays GAA specials and the like from the South and West terminate in Heuston.

Transportuser09

SeanW wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification Corktina, that's exactly what I meant. Obviously my own post wasn't clear enough for some, this I should not have expected.

As an aside, I don't think I.E. even uses the tunnel for sports trains anymore, nowadays GAA specials and the like from the South and West terminate in Heuston.

As far as I know this tunnel is used several times a week by container trains to Ballina. Empty Railcar and towed Darts also occur regularly enough and light engine movements between Inchicore and Connolly. No doubt the odd pernament way trains/machines show up too...so it's not exactly disused...and the chances of being hit are a bit more than zero, especially seen as the non-passenger trains are harder to predict in their timing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxgUYIjltns

corktina

oh Im sure you are right but " several times a week for a double track cwr tunnel linking north and south should have a regular passenger service on it....

OurLadyofKnock

corktina wrote: »

oh Im sure you are right but " several times a week for a double track cwr tunnel linking north and south should have a regular passenger service on it....

I have no doubt that someone, somewhere within Irish Rail management has already placed an order for bricks and mortor (from his brother's builder's supply company of course) to block up the entrances to the Phoenix Park Tunnel at some stage in the next few years. I would be amazed if this wasn't the case.

They'll probably start finding "serious structural cracks" in it soon...

Cookie_Monster

Rud wrote: »

so basically what your saying is it is ok to hop down onto any track in the country as long as it's quiet and not much chance of getting hit by a train?

no, I just said you can do it, not that its ok to do it :rolleyes:

Amtmann

There's an anti Metro North/Interconnector letter in the Irish Times today. He says the Phoenix Park tunnel could be used rather than a new tunnel for the interconnector. What are the reasons again that make him wrong?

murphaph

Furet wrote: »

There's an anti Metro North/Interconnector letter in the Irish Times today. He says the Phoenix Park tunnel could be used rather than a new tunnel for the interconnector. What are the reasons again that make him wrong?

It's not really a case of the PPT being an alternative for the IC. They would both do fundamentally different things.

The problem with the IC is that it still isn't clear to most people that it is much more than just a tunnel to connect Heuston to Connolly (which it won't do anyway of course!).

the IC will allow trains to travel directly under the area of the city where most commuters want to go (the South central business district). The PPT would do little for these people.

The PPT would however allow all sorts of other possibilities and from right now could be used to get trains from Kildare etc. to the Docklands station (with some basic trackwork). This was the stated aim of IE but it has never materialised.

DWCommuter

Furet wrote: »

There's an anti Metro North/Interconnector letter in the Irish Times today. He says the Phoenix Park tunnel could be used rather than a new tunnel for the interconnector. What are the reasons again that make him wrong?

It wasn't me!:D

OurLadyofKnock

Furet wrote: »

There's an anti Metro North/Interconnector letter in the Irish Times today. He says the Phoenix Park tunnel could be used rather than a new tunnel for the interconnector. What are the reasons again that make him wrong?

They all both serve different purposes - but are all useful.

It is great to see people still writing letters about this issue and bring the matter up as Irish Rail do everything they can to stop people from knowing there is even a tunnel under the Phoenix Park.

Letters like this to the papers, even ill informed ones, are very important for the future protection of the tunnel as such actions ensure that the Phoenix Park Rail Tunnel remains the monster The Lynch Mob cannot kill.

The day the IRRS organise a "Farewell Special" from Docklands to Islandbridge is the day I will kidnap and chain Irish Rail management to the tracks at the site of the old cement depot at Cabra West and light a cigarette and just stand back and sing:

"I hear that train a coming...it's coming round the bend..."

KC61

Furet wrote: »

There's an anti Metro North/Interconnector letter in the Irish Times today. He says the Phoenix Park tunnel could be used rather than a new tunnel for the interconnector. What are the reasons again that make him wrong?

What the interconnector delivers is two completely independent DART services (Maynooth/Greystones and Northern Line/Hazelhatch) and the elimination of the numerous conflicts north of Connolly and relieves pressure on the loop line bridge. None of that is delivered by using the Phoenix Park tunnel instead.

The problem with using the Phoenix Park Tunnel is that it funnels everything off the Kildare line onto the same tracks as trains from Maynooth at Glasnevin Junction and then everything has to cross northbound and southbound tracks to get into Connolly thereby using extra slots.

Arguably it could be used to route trains from Kildare to Docklands, but this would require a diamond crossover at Glasnevin Junction. This would however mean longer journeys to say the south city centre at Grafton Street than the existing bus transfer at Heuston.

Amtmann

Okay. So who among you is going to write a letter to Madam and rebut the piece in today's paper?

Judgement Day

The offending letter in full - I agree with its sentiments but my main objection to DART underground is that CIE/IE are behind it. They cannot be trusted with this sort of project, especially as by the time it is completed they will have killed the entire inter-city network and then what will the inter-connector connect? A Western DART line to the existing DART lines - WOW!!


http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224276042062

Monday, August 2, 2010

Madam, – I concur with Frank McDonald’s views (Opinion, July 28th) on the proposed Metro North and Dart underground and would like to add some points. The recent extension to the Luas light rail line at Cherrywood (Home News, May 6th) is very good value for money costing €300 million, working out at €40 million per kilometre for the 7.5km track. What is not good value is the €6 billion about to be spent on the Metro. The present Cherrywood to St Stephen’s Green Luas line should be extended to go via the city centre to Dublin Airport.

Using a mixture of ground level and elevated tracking as used in all Luas projects, this enterprise would deliver greater economic and social value than the proposed €6 billion Metro North, which involves the destruction of St Stephen’s Green, the vast construction of unnecessary underground stations, and tunnel works which will endanger the structures of many old Dublin buildings.

The light rail model of Luas transportation in Dublin (everybody would be able to take the A train to the airport) is cost effective and would deliver a light rail line at a fraction of the cost of the Metro North. Another example of Government project money wastage is the proposed €2 billion underground Dart going from Heuston Station to the Docklands which Iarnród Éireann is in the process of building. There is no reason for this new line as there is already a useable and well-built railway line which runs from Heuston Station via a tunnel at the Phoenix Park; the line then traverses a semi-circle around the northside and terminates at Connolly station. Iarnród Éireann has made no attempt to incorporate this great railway asset into its commuter network. – Yours, etc,

DAMIAN O’REGAN,
Sion Hill,
Blackrock,
Co Dublin.

murphaph

Judgement Day wrote: »

DAMIAN O’REGAN,
Sion Hill,
Blackrock,
Co Dublin.

Luckily for dear Damian, he lives spitting distance from the DORT so he likely doesn't need metro north or the interconnector.

Judgement Day

murphaph wrote: »

Luckily for dear Damian, he lives spitting distance from the DORT so he likely doesn't need metro north or the interconnector.

Unless he wants to go to Hazlehatch, the soon to be terminus of rail services west of Dublin? :rolleyes:

Effects

I'm a photographer but also a mild enthusiast. I'm well aware of the dangers in the tunnel and what to do if a train does approach. I've spent over twenty years around tracks, trains, tunnels and yards so I'm pretty safe even though I may be trespassing. I have a few more pictures from that set here

davebuck

murphaph wrote: »

Luckily for dear Damian, he lives spitting distance from the DORT so he likely doesn't need metro north or the interconnector.

I agrees totally Dear old Damien is being spoiled by the dart,F*** the rest of the city that's not on the existing dart line.

What a Prat!!!!

DWCommuter

Effects wrote: »

I'm a photographer but also a mild enthusiast. I'm well aware of the dangers in the tunnel and what to do if a train does approach. I've spent over twenty years around tracks, trains, tunnels and yards so I'm pretty safe even though I may be trespassing. I have a few more pictures from that set here

Fantastic photos of a rarely seen location and at least you admit that you are trespassing.

corktina

Effects wrote: »

I'm a photographer but also a mild enthusiast. I'm well aware of the dangers in the tunnel and what to do if a train does approach. I've spent over twenty years around tracks, trains, tunnels and yards so I'm pretty safe even though I may be trespassing. I have a few more pictures from that set here

the trouble with trespassing is YOU might know what you are doing but someone else seeing you and assuming they can do the same, may not know what they are doing. A lot of discussion on this issue in the UK railway press.Its a no-no nowadays.

westtip

davebuck wrote: »

I agrees totally Dear old Damien is being spoiled by the dart,F*** the rest of the city that's not on the existing dart line.

What a Prat!!!!

Its totally unfair to criticise someone for making a point, just because he lives near the dart. He expressed a view and a valid one that the PPT exists and could be used - even if it was just a shuttle service between connolly or docks area and Heuston on a 15 minute interval - It would add value to the overall travel product on offer in dublin - and it should at least be tried. Criticising someone for these reasons - he lives neat the dart he expressed a view he's a pratt is not dissimilar to prejudice, and is all too prevelant in our parish pump mentality. so please don't criticise his opinion because of his postcode, by all means argue against his views if you wish but don't judge on colour creed or address.

SeanW

westtip wrote: »

Its totally unfair to criticise someone for making a point, just because he lives near the dart. He expressed a view and a valid one that the PPT exists and could be used - even if it was just a shuttle service between connolly or docks area and Heuston on a 15 minute interval

I agree the PPT could and should be used and the 15 minute shuttle idea sounds good.

But this writer has a much simpler idea - "let them eat cake." Luas isn't really a solution to anything important, remember it takes nearly an hour to get from Tallaght to Connolly. You could go to Mullingar in nearly the same time. Clearly Metro and DART are required for the Airport, Swords, Dublin West etc.

KC61

I think that it is more the case that the letter writer just does not understand the real purpose of the Interconnector.

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

I think that it is more the case that the letter writer just does not understand the real purpose of the Interconnector.

Which is?

Stonewolf

KC61 wrote: »

I think that it is more the case that the letter writer just does not understand the real purpose of the Interconnector.

... and perhaps works somewhere on the Northside and therefore sees it as a threat due to the required change at Pearse.

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

Which is?

As I said above:

1) Two completely independent DART services (Maynooth/Greystones and Northern Line/Hazelhatch) connecting at Pearse; and

2) The elimination of the numerous conflicts north of Connolly between Maynooth line and northern line services; and

3) Relieves pressure on the loop line bridge.

None of the above is delivered by using the Phoenix Park tunnel instead.