Sex before Marriage

Prof.Badass

steve06 wrote: »

monogamy has nothing to do with children.

I dissagree. Our capacity for monogamy didn't evolve for the fun of it :eek:!

So what? you'd lead an unhappy miserable life because you love your children... and you think that would be good for them?

Who said I'd be unhappy (let alone miserable)? I think you're misinterpreting my posts!

I don't need to feel intense romantic euphoria 100% of the time to be happy. My life would be pretty sad if i was stuck in the cycle of chasing that high (which i think is one reason why you see so much marriage breakdown in today's society).

You can't compare the 2. And stop trying to rationalise love, it will get you nowhere but heartache.

You're saying love is impervious to science?

Do some reading up on oxytocin and vassopressin.

:O Study that shows MDMA causes the release of oxytocin (no wonder it's called the love drug )

:O study that shows men with a certain vassopressin-related gene report lower marital satisfaction.

PT-141, a drug which causes feelings of sexual desire in humans

and my person favourite: WAY-267,464 (it binds directly to the cells responsible for feelings of closeness to others-what some people would call "love"). If i was a betting man i'd say this drug (or some sort of derivitive) will cause quite a stir in about a decades time!

Seriously, you have issues. And I really don't think you'll find another person like you out there that thinks like this.

I'll humour you, what sort of issues do I have?
Are they related to my belief that happy monogamy is achieveable to the vast majority of people? Would it be better if i was one of those people who believe that happy monogamy is impossible for the majority of people (with whom i spend most of my time debating this issue with)?

corkcomp

i know nearly 300 people so far voted "yes" but its hard to believe there are still 20 narrow minded people out there:D no disrespect to anyones beliefs

Des Carter

corkcomp wrote: »

i know nearly 300 people so far voted "yes" but its hard to believe there are still 20 narrow minded people out there:D no disrespect to anyones beliefs

I voted no and I am not a religious fanatic and I have to wonder why you think Im narrow minded as I am quite open minded. I looked at the pros and cons on both sides and believe no is the better option and I think you may be the narrow minded one as you quickly dismiss marriage and waiting as old fashioned out of date.

So heres my theory:
Since the late 80s and early 90s the Church began to loose its power and influence in Irish society and the Irish became more liberal which for the most part is a good thing as before this it was being drilled into people that sex is evil and should never be had unless its to pro-create.

However during the Celtic Tiger big businesses and companies took off and Ireland became very capitalist. This means that everything is about profit and money. And sex sells.

The end result is what we have now people being brainwashed by advertising, movies, music videos, TV, page 3 etc etc and it is drilled into them (us/you) that promiscuity is great and should be practiced as much as possible and that waiting is stupid.

So maybe in decades to come people will look back at us now and say how terrible it was for us to have had such notions stuffed down our throats (ie if your a virgin your a loser or if you wait your narrow minded)

Thoughts??

Des Carter

Just to clarify my last post I dont think companies intentionally promote promiscuity but they have made it socially acceptable and even expected.

How?
well its all about money and naked women sell as they are hot and are used to sell everything from the sun to Hunky dorys to songs (music videos) etc - €€€€€

However this leads to girls having insecurities which should be a bad thing but its not as this leads to a rise in sales of make-up - €€€€
expensive clothes - €€€€
trips to the beauty clinic - €€€€
even botox and surgery - €€€€

So now its acceptable to have sex but to do that you have to look sexy so you spend money and you look good. so now you have to hook-up with someone.

So you head to a club - €€€€
too shy to do anything sober so you buy drink - €€€€
condoms - €€€€€
pill - €€€€€
doctor appointment to screen for stds - €€€€

Now lets look at marriage and how that is perceived:
engagement ring - €€€€
Big wedding, dress, cake, hotel etc - €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€
honeymoon - €€€€€€€€€€€
expected to move in together straight away so you have to buy a house - €€€€€€
Then have kids straight away again why? - €€€€€€€€

see a pattern? and love never really gets a mention

(unless its valentines day and you have to buy presents, cards, meal etc - €€€€€€€)

Again this is just a theory and I have nothing to back it up but I dont care and Im not a prude or a religious nut as I think a certain amount of sexual liberation is a good thing.

strobe

Des Carter wrote: »

I voted no and I am not a religious fanatic and I have to wonder why you think Im narrow minded as I am quite open minded. I looked at the pros and cons on both sides and believe no is the better option and I think you may be the narrow minded one as you quickly dismiss marriage and waiting as old fashioned out of date.

So heres my theory:
Since the late 80s and early 90s the Church began to loose its power and influence in Irish society and the Irish became more liberal which for the most part is a good thing as before this it was being drilled into people that sex is evil and should never be had unless its to pro-create.

However during the Celtic Tiger big businesses and companies took off and Ireland became very capitalist. This means that everything is about profit and money. And sex sells.

The end result is what we have now people being brainwashed by advertising, movies, music videos, TV, page 3 etc etc and it is drilled into them (us/you) that promiscuity is great and should be practiced as much as possible and that waiting is stupid.

So maybe in decades to come people will look back at us now and say how terrible it was for us to have had such notions stuffed down our throats (ie if your a virgin your a loser or if you wait your narrow minded)

Thoughts??

It has nothing whatsoever to do with capitalism and the sneaky advertising companies Des. Chimps are promiscuous along with, ehhhh what are they called? Oh yeah that's right.....every other animal on the face of the planet. So unless you think that AMV BBDO have a special animal branch to thier ad agency your theory doesn't really hold up too well.

R1221

Why bother getting married if your not going to respect the rules of the church.
So many people seem to get married today because its standard practice and not because they believe in God or the church and their teachings.
One of my friends recently got married and he is an atheist, when I asked him why he was going through with the ceramony he just said it was something everyone does.

abouttobebanned

My first girlfriend was a born again Christian from n. Ireland. She did not believe in sex before marriage and eventually went on to marry a like minded born again a few years ago. He was confident that she abstained and her likewise about him. I think that's pretty cool.


Although, I lost my virginity to her in a forest in courtown. And many times after that. She was a dirty bitch, like most other born again Christians.

This is all you need to know about believing in no sex before marriage.

abouttobebanned

R1221 wrote: »

Why bother getting married if your not going to respect the rules of the church.
So many people seem to get married today because its standard practice and not because they believe in God or the church and their teachings.
One of my friends recently got married and he is an atheist, when I asked him why he was going through with the ceramony he just said it was something everyone does.

Simple - to please other people. We do it all the time in life...from leaving our socks on in restaurants to not scratching our balls and sniffing it in public.

Brendog

Its pretty **** that a religion could've put thisidea into people minds!


I'd understand if contraception wasn't available, but people are fully aware of what will happen if they have unpretected sex.

besides....who wants start having sex at 30 or whatever age????

MagicMarker

Des Carter wrote: »

I looked at the pros and cons on both sides and believe no is the better option

Can you give us the pros and cons please?

Des Carter

Des Carter wrote: »

Just to clarify my last post I dont think companies intentionally promote promiscuity but they have made it socially acceptable and even expected.
.

That breakdown was the biggest load of rubbish I've ever heard
You think ireland's binge drinking problem is related to sex, you think pill is only for contraception, you think people just get married and HAVE to buy a house, I mean...

R1221 wrote: »

Why bother getting married if your not going to respect the rules of the church.
So many people seem to get married today because its standard practice and not because they believe in God or the church and their teachings.
One of my friends recently got married and he is an atheist, when I asked him why he was going through with the ceramony he just said it was something everyone does.

Because a legal marriage has nothing to do with the church. It's not exclusive to your church.

smash

Prof.Badass wrote: »

I dissagree. Our capacity for monogamy didn't evolve for the fun of it :eek:!

No, it would have evolved by staying with someone that makes you happy.

Prof.Badass wrote: »

Who said I'd be unhappy (let alone miserable)? I think you're misinterpreting my posts!

You said "weather I love my wife or not"

Prof.Badass wrote: »

I don't need to feel intense romantic euphoria 100% of the time to be happy. My life would be pretty sad if i was stuck in the cycle of chasing that high (which i think is one reason why you see so much marriage breakdown in today's society).

Why would that be sad, if 2 people want it then it wouldn't just go away.

Prof.Badass wrote: »

You're saying love is impervious to science?

I'm saying let things be, by analysing a situation revolving around love you're destined to fail.

Prof.Badass wrote: »

I'll humour you, what sort of issues do I have?

Your beliefs about what a relationship should be, are completely wrong and delusional.

Prof.Badass wrote: »

Are they related to my belief that happy monogamy is achieveable to the vast majority of people?

No, of course it's achievable, it's to do with what you think happens in marriage.

Prof.Badass wrote: »

Would it be better if i was one of those people who believe that happy monogamy is impossible for the majority of people (with whom i spend most of my time debating this issue with)?

Happy monogamy is possible, but the belief that love is replaced by feelings of mutual respect ect is just bullsh!t.

And a tip... by debating these topics you're making yourself look silly because you're wrong, and you have no experience of what you're talking about.

HavingCrack

R1221 wrote: »

Why bother getting married if your not going to respect the rules of the church.
So many people seem to get married today because its standard practice and not because they believe in God or the church and their teachings.
One of my friends recently got married and he is an atheist, when I asked him why he was going through with the ceramony he just said it was something everyone does.

Eh marriage is a legal cotnract as well as a religious one. There's lots of reasons for getting married apart from religiosu reasons. Unmarried fathers have basically no rights to their children for a start. Tax issues, inheritance rights from your spouse etc etc. Your friend is being a bit naive if he thinks its only a religious ceremony.

Brendog wrote: »

Its pretty **** that a religion could've put thisidea into people minds!


I'd understand if contraception wasn't available, but people are fully aware of what will happen if they have unpretected sex.

besides....who wants start having sex at 30 or whatever age????

Marriage has existed far longer than the Christian churches have. The Romans, Egyptians, Celts, Greeks, Native Americans etc all practiced marriage so it isn't something specific to mono theistic religions.

HavingCrack

steve06 wrote: »

And a tip... by debating these topics you're making yourself look silly because you're wrong, and you have no experience of what you're talking about.

Have to agree with Steve here Professor Badass. You said yourself you've never been married so how can you possibly know that your relationship is going to lose all love and just lapse into mutual respect You're talking about things you've never experienced.

Ickle Magoo

Des Carter wrote: »

Just to clarify my last post I dont think companies intentionally promote promiscuity but they have made it socially acceptable and even expected.
........>
(unless its valentines day and you have to buy presents, cards, meal etc - €€€€€€€)

Again this is just a theory and I have nothing to back it up but I dont care and Im not a prude or a religious nut as I think a certain amount of sexual liberation is a good thing.

Are you seriously suggesting that those things are only done by people who are promiscuous? Only promiscuous people want to look sexy or have expensive weddings? What? If people who wait do any of those things then your hypothesis (it certainly doesn't warrant the title theory) goes out the window...

So a certain amount of sexual liberation is okay? What does that mean? Nothing wrong with people handling each others genitals or sucking on them but penetration is a big no-no? That kind of thing? I find that a stranger rationale than no touching full-stop until marriage. There is few STDs that can't be spread by sex that can't also be spread by oral or manual sex, you can be promiscuous through other sexual activities as well so allow that and all your arguments come tumbling down like a cheap set of cards. I'm guessing you aren't really that old or at least haven't seen much of the world.