UPC DOCSIS 3.0 Fair Use

Karmafaerie

cros13 wrote: »

And I can also copy those terms and conditions, amend them as agreed and return by registered post. I am aware of the law in relation to this.

And depending on what you changed they'd have to right to cancel your contract.
What's your point here?

cros13 wrote:

I didn't suggest "tricking" anyone. I'm aware of the law in regards to recording phone calls.

If you tell the agent that you are recording the conversation, then chances are 99% of agents will play the call by the book, even if they would normally lie to customers.
So I fail to see what you hope to gain.

cros13 wrote:

I'm a network engineer. Even given my monthly usage with the contention ratios UPC mention (17:1) there should be no issue unless there is a bandwidth bottleneck further upstream.
Remember that given 30Mbps of bandwidth, 500GB is less than 5% of line capacity. I shouldn't even use my "share" of bandwidth on the local cable loop.
All I'm really doing is rsyncing my home server to work so I'm hardly using any of the more sparse upstream bandwidth.

So you're trying to use your RESEDENTIAL broadband for WORK purposes.
Lots of people do this, but most of them don't complain when they are doing it to such an exent that it taxes the RESEDENTIAL account.

If you want to use it for this purpose, I'd suggest calling UPC's business department, as what you are describing is not normal resedential use, and so not what the package is designed for.

dub45

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Yeah, that's why I sued the travel agency when it rained during my medeteranian sun holiday a few years back!:rolleyes:

UPC aren't responsible for how many heavy users live in the one area.
What do you want them to do?
Ask customers to choose a house based on their internet usage?!

Dear God:rolleyes:

Otherwise apparently intelligent people appear to lose all reason when it comes to defending UPC.

Show me the travel agent that guarantees unlimited sunshine? Or when you use too much of that unlimited sunshine upgrades you involuntarily to a mysterious "package' that has even more sunshine than the previous one but this time you pay even more for????

UPC may offer attractive speeds but in signing up for them it is not necessary to become an unquestioning fanboy who will accept any sort of crap from them including redefining the English language and terms and conditions that they don't abide by themselves.

In accepting crap from one company we are ultimately allowing even more companies to offer crap - look at the variations on 'unlimited' for example once a company was allowed to get away with it initially.

UPC need to be criticised as much as possible when they step out of line - their propensity for dictating to the customer is far too high.

dub45

hightower1 wrote: »

All I am saying is if you dont agree with an ISP selling an unlimited / FUP product then dont give them your custom.

If I dont like the prices or practices of a shop I certainly wont hand over my hard earned money.

You know very well that lousy business practises become commonplace once any business is allowed to get away with them. It is up to consumers to be conscious of lousy business practises and highlight them as much as possible.

Sadly companies only appear to respond to embarrassment these days and thats why highlighting lousy behaviour is important.

Signing up for UPC much as you might love their products does not require suspension of your critical faculties.

Karmafaerie

dub45 wrote: »

Dear God:rolleyes:

Otherwise apparently intelligent people appear to lose all reason when it comes to defending UPC.

Show me the travel agent that guarantees unlimited sunshine? Or when you use too much of that unlimited sunshine upgrades you involuntarily to a mysterious "package' that has even more sunshine than the previous one but this time you pay even more for????

UPC may offer attractive speeds but in signing up for them it is not necessary to become an unquestioning fanboy who will accept any sort of crap from them including redefining the English language and terms and conditions that they don't abide by themselves.

In accepting crap from one company we are ultimately allowing even more companies to offer crap - look at the variations on 'unlimited' for example once a company was allowed to get away with it initially.

UPC need to be criticised as much as possible when they step out of line - their propensity for dictating to the customer is far too high.

I'm sorry, but according to you it's all about the wording.
You're the one who quotes dictionarys at people if they so much as mention not hating UPC!:rolleyes:

According to your (I shudder to say) logic, the holiday I booked was a "Sun" holliday.

Infact the name of the company is Sun Holidays.
Their website has people photos's enjoying the sun.
At no stage does it say we don't control the weather on the website.

And do you now why, cause it reasons that people aren't idiots.

So when UPC says that it's RESEDENTIAL broadband is unlimited with a AUP, then it assumes the same of you.

Not that you will come onto forums copy and pasting from online dictionaries!

UPC, surprize, surprize, have a marketing department.

Companies, accross the world, since the dawn of civilization, advertise the best of things.
A cartoon bear sand a bloody song about it!

If you really can't understand this then you are the kind of person who would sue Sun holidays ifit rained!:rolleyes:

lucernarian

dub45 wrote: »

Dear God:rolleyes:

Otherwise apparently intelligent people appear to lose all reason when it comes to defending UPC.

Show me the travel agent that guarantees unlimited sunshine? Or when you use too much of that unlimited sunshine upgrades you involuntarily to a mysterious "package' that has even more sunshine than the previous one but this time you pay even more for????

UPC may offer attractive speeds but in signing up for them it is not necessary to become an unquestioning fanboy who will accept any sort of crap from them including redefining the English language and terms and conditions that they don't abide by themselves.

In accepting crap from one company we are ultimately allowing even more companies to offer crap - look at the variations on 'unlimited' for example once a company was allowed to get away with it initially.

UPC need to be criticised as much as possible when they step out of line - their propensity for dictating to the customer is far too high.

I fully agree with those sentiments. And I'd also agree with Sponge Bob's view on UPC's CSRs. If UPC and their agents were more honest about what they were trying to sell, then these sorts of critical threads wouldn't exist. And if someone goes through a discusion of terms and conditions which must be verbally agreed to over the phone, while being recorded, how could that not constitute a legal agreement if a customer is told that download allowance is unlimited? A court would easily allow any customer to leave any agreement without prejudice to the customer in such circumstances.

karmafaerie wrote:

So you're trying to use your RESEDENTIAL broadband for WORK purposes.
Lots of people do this, but most of them don't complain when they are doing it to such an exent that it taxes the RESEDENTIAL account.

Syncing a home server to work does not equate to using a residential account for business purposes?! It's quite likely that's for allowing home-based files to be used at work (music and the likes). Which would be more of an issue between the employee and the employer's IT manager...

Karmafaerie

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I fully agree with those sentiments. And I'd also agree with Sponge Bob's view on UPC's CSRs. If UPC and their agents were more honest about what they were trying to sell, then these sorts of critical threads wouldn't exist. And if someone goes through a discusion of terms and conditions which must be verbally agreed to over the phone, while being recorded, how could that not constitute a legal agreement if a customer is told that download allowance is unlimited? A court would easily allow any customer to leave any agreement without prejudice to the customer in such circumstances.

It always amazes me how people don't read their contracts, but then I come in here where people can't even read a thread, and it shows me that it's more common than I thought.

Not one person here is saying that the OP wouldn't be able to leave their contract.
We have all said that over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again.
The OP stated that he would be able to use that call recording to sue UPC for breach of service, as a way to force them to supply him with an unlimeted service.
We are saying no that he wouldn't.

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Syncing a home server to work does not equate to using a residential account for business purposes?! It's quite likely that's for allowing home-based files to be used at work (music and the likes). Which would be more of an issue between the employee and the employer's IT manager...

Yes.
He's uploading 500MB of his home computer to his work computer per month.
Very likely that is.

dub45

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I'm sorry, but according to you it's all about the wording.
You're the one who quotes dictionarys at people if they so much as mention not hating UPC!:rolleyes:

According to your (I shudder to say) logic, the holiday I booked was a "Sun" holliday.

Infact the name of the company is Sun Holidays.
Their website has people photos's enjoying the sun.
At no stage does it say we don't control the weather on the website.

And do you now why, cause it reasons that people aren't idiots.

So when UPC says that it's RESEDENTIAL broadband is unlimited with a AUP, then it assumes the same of you.

Not that you will come onto forums copy and pasting from online dictionaries!

UPC, surprize, surprize, have a marketing department.

Companies, accross the world, since the dawn of civilization, advertise the best of things.
A cartoon bear sand a bloody song about it!

If you really can't understand this then you are the kind of person who would sue Sun holidays ifit rained!:rolleyes:

It is indeed all about wording.

Wording is how we communicate. Words have agreed meanings.

You appear to consider it ok for companies to redefine language to suit themselves and to mislead people.

Having a marketing department does not justify lying.

You unfortunately picked a lousy example for your argument in your holiday example.

I quote dictionaries to remind people of the meaning of words nothing more nothing less.

I dont expect anyone to hate UPC but i do expect even fanboys to be able to discern when their favourite company is misleading people.

So when UPC says that it's RESEDENTIAL broadband is unlimited with a AUP, then it assumes the same of you.

And can I remind you that there are many many instances where UPC quote their BB product as being unlimited without any qualification whatsoever,

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

lucernarian

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And do you now why, cause it reasons that people aren't idiots.

So when UPC says that it's RESEDENTIAL broadband is unlimited with a AUP, then it assumes the same of you.

Oh that's just clutching at straws there. How is a package holiday and the weather anything to do with T&C abbreviations such as AUPs?! This is quite straightforward, UNLIMITED and AUP are not compatible with each other. UPC are definitely not the only company to make these sort of misleading statements but this defending of them is intolerable.

If customers see that a broadband package is "unlimited", they'll think that's great and won't think about AUPs at all. Even if they do see the Acceptable Usage Policy mentioned in the small print, they will not equate that with a download allowance, no matter what a UPC CSR would like to expect. And of course, some customers have to jump through hoops to even find out what the AUP actually means. UPC's make it clear that their 2 highest packages have "unlimited" usage on their website. This is quite misleading.

Karmafaerie

dub45 wrote: »

You appear to consider it ok for companies to redefine language to suit themselves and to mislead people.

Like a company calling themselves sun holidays when they can't guarantee the sun?
If you think that a company calling themselves Sun holidays, advertisingwhat they called (verbatim) "a holiday in the sun" is not similar to UPC saying unlimited broadband, then you are completely and unequivicably biased.

They advertised a holiday in the sun.
There was no sun.
How is this any different?


(Quick note, I had a great time on the holiday, and had no intention ever of complaining. Just using it as a reference point, seeing as Dub seems to think that companies have to use wording that doesn't give customers the wrong impression).

dub45 wrote: »

Having a marketing department does not justify lying.

You unfortunately picked a lousy example for your argument in your holiday example.

I quote dictionaries to remind people of the meaning of words nothing more nothing less.

I dont expect anyone to hate UPC but i do expect even fanboys to be able to discern when their favourite company is misleading people.

How is it lying?
There are loads of people, many of whom have posted here, that have downloaded hundreds of gigs.
They have an unlimited service.
Unfortunately a lot of people are hindered in this andcan't avail, due to utilization.
Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If you actually casred about the wording rather than just hating all things UPC, your little crusade would be about "up to speeds" which effects hundreds of times more customers.
But that's not a UPC issue, so you don't care about it.

In reality you don't care about the wording, it's just a stick that you use to beat UPC.

I'll await your dozens of posts in every single thread that mentions Eircom, about "up to speeds" cause until then you are being biased and are of no interest to me, as I get enough fanboi crap from people in the PS3/360 debates.

Karmafaerie

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Oh that's just clutching at straws there. How is a package holiday and the weather anything to do with T&C abbreviations such as AUPs?! This is quite straightforward, UNLIMITED and AUP are not compatible with each other. UPC are definitely not the only company to make these sort of misleading statements but this defending of them is intolerable.

If customers see that a broadband package is "unlimited", they'll think that's great and won't think about AUPs at all. Even if they do see the Acceptable Usage Policy mentioned in the small print, they will not equate that with a download allowance, no matter what a UPC CSR would like to expect. And of course, some customers have to jump through hoops to even find out what the AUP actually means. UPC's make it clear that their 2 highest packages have "unlimited" usage on their website. This is quite misleading.

No, that's you with a double standard my friend.
You expect better standards from UPC than you do from the Travel agent.

For no reason whatsoever.

All companies should be held to the same standard.

lucernarian

karmafaerie wrote:

Not one person here is saying that the OP wouldn't be able to leave their contract.
We have all said that over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again.
The OP stated that he would be able to use that call recording to sue UPC for breach of service, as a way to force them to supply him with an unlimeted service.
We are saying no that he wouldn't.

And I agree with that, of course UPC can't be sued for not offering a service in the first instance but a contract can be easily voided without penalty. But that's just it, Sponge Bob wasn't saying any different either... SB made the point that any judge would void a contract if a verbal and recorded promise to offer something in exchange for money was voided. Perhaps you should look back over some of those posts to clarify the situation.

lucernarian

Karmafaerie wrote: »

No, that's you with a double standard my friend.
You expect better standards from UPC than you do from the Travel agent.

For no reason whatsoever.

All companies should be held to the same standard.

What nonsense. No matter how you spin it, if someone signs up to an unlimited usage internet connection, and then are billed for downloading over 250GB in a month, then that service is NOT unlimited!! It really is that simple:)

dub45

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Oh that's just clutching at straws there. How is a package holiday and the weather anything to do with T&C abbreviations such as AUPs?! This is quite straightforward, UNLIMITED and AUP are not compatible with each other. UPC are definitely not the only company to make these sort of misleading statements but this defending of them is intolerable.

If customers see that a broadband package is "unlimited", they'll think that's great and won't think about AUPs at all. Even if they do see the Acceptable Usage Policy mentioned in the small print, they will not equate that with a download allowance, no matter what a UPC CSR would like to expect. And of course, some customers have to jump through hoops to even find out what the AUP actually means. UPC's make it clear that their 2 highest packages have "unlimited" usage on their website. This is quite misleading.

Indeed!

http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/my_service_provider_has_advertised_an_%22unlimited_package%22___what_does_this_mean_for_me.5.154.LE.asp

ComReg would like to advise consumers that any provision of a contract which sets usage thresholds, or describes what constitutes ‘fair’ or ‘acceptable’ use, should be clear and unambiguous, particularly where the service is described as being ‘unlimited’.

Usage thresholds or limits should be clearly set out, as should the manner in which they may be updated or amended.

ComReg expects each service provider to implement a clear, transparent and policy for dealing with customer usage above any set thresholds. The policy should set out the rules for contract termination, including penalties, the charges that shall apply for any use above the threshold/limit, and the policy regarding migration of the customer to other packages, if applicable.

dub45

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Like a company calling themselves sun holidays when they can't guarantee the sun?
If you think that a company calling themselves Sun holidays, advertisingwhat they called (verbatim) "a holiday in the sun" is not similar to UPC saying unlimited broadband, then you are completely and unequivicably biased.

They advertised a holiday in the sun.
There was no sun.
How is this any different?


(Quick note, I had a great time on the holiday, and had no intention ever of complaining. Just using it as a reference point, seeing as Dub seems to think that companies have to use wording that doesn't give customers the wrong impression).

At this stage it really is beginning to sound as if you got far far too much sun:rolleyes:

Jonathan

cros13 wrote: »

I'm a network engineer. Even given my monthly usage with the contention ratios UPC mention (17:1) there should be no issue unless there is a bandwidth bottleneck further upstream.
Remember that given 30Mbps of bandwidth, 500GB is less than 5% of line capacity. I shouldn't even use my "share" of bandwidth on the local cable loop.
All I'm really doing is rsyncing my home server to work so I'm hardly using any of the more sparse upstream bandwidth.

If your company is Irish, it quite possible that they or their ISP peer at INEX. If that is the case, UPC might turn a blind eye if they don't have to pay for the bandwidth.

Mountjoy Mugger

Interest waning...can we go back OT?


Advice was offered earlier to the OP to check out the SME options available. Not a bad idea, imo. No mention of a FUP on the products offered.