core i5 or amd phenom II

The Omen 666

i am looking to do a build ( i know i have mentioned it b4)

I need case, mobo, cpu, cooler PSU and Ram, i have HD ( WD cavier black)

Don't want to spend more than approx 500. (600 is absolute limit)

I had been fixated with an I5 build but then was toying with a p55a ud3 base and core i3 ( upgrading later to i5 750 )

Lately i have been mulling over the benefits of going the am3 route with a 3ghz phenom ii x4 but finding the rite mobo is tough as i have little exp with amd chipsets. 890's i think have support for usb3/sata 6gb v's 790's which do not. any one with some advice.

my current sys is a dell9200, 2.6ghz core 2 duo but a sappy psu, running it with win7, 4gb ram and ati 4850 vapourx

Jonny7

600 max?

where you getting your prices from? you should be able to fit in an i750 or 6 core amd into that budget if you already have hdd and gfx card

mess about on hardwareversand.de pc configurator

The Omen 666

Thanks Johnny7, i have been doing that alright but not sure as to the benefits of a phenom 2x4 build or going the core i route apart from the cost issue,

basically, the case i prob gonna go with is the cm 690 ii ,centurion 590 or antec 300

If i go core i, i prob gonna go gigabyte ud3 with core i3 and upgrade later with core i5 to keep costs down. I want to leave option of doing a crossfire route later also or upgrade gfx to 5770 or 5850( when this drops a bit)

settled on antec trupower 650 for psu, (Custom pc recons this is the biz)

where i really get stuck is the am3 mobo's as i know that i would prob go with the phenom ii x4 3ghz cpu

if u have any suggestions i would be grateful

Unregistered.

What will you be using this PC for?

The Omen 666

really sorry, ud think after reading these forums for long enuf i'd remember to mention the uses of the pc i want to build...

The Pc will be used for gaming ( not a heavy gamer but i do play call of duty type games as well as civ and such) and also music production using ableton live. as well as email and net etc youtube vid uploading but nothing heavy

i have a dell 21 inch wide monitor res 1650 x 1200 i think, not hd but i would upgrade in future to a HD monitor

Unregistered.

The Omen 666 wrote: »

really sorry, ud think after reading these forums for long enuf i'd remember to mention the uses of the pc i want to build...

The Pc will be used for gaming ( not a heavy gamer but i do play call of duty type games as well as civ and such) and also music production using ableton live. as well as email and net etc youtube vid uploading but nothing heavy

i have a dell 21 inch wide monitor res 1650 x 1200 i think, not hd but i would upgrade in future to a HD monitor

I wouldn't see the point in going i3 now then upgrading to i5-750 since the i3's gfx core would be just wasted. If you wanted to go dual-core then go with AMD (or possibly a good LGA775 chip?) as you could save a few €'s.
If you defo want to go quad then you should know that the architecture behind the phenom2 is something like a year or two older than Intel's latest chips. However, they are priced well.

Overheal

Besides the fact that Intel is a michevious bastard of a company, it clocks its processors high and runs them hot and charges a premium. AMDs as far as I can tell offer better price-performance.

Unregistered.

Overheal wrote: »

it clocks its processors high and runs them hot and charges a premium. AMDs as far as I can tell offer better price-performance.

AMD are quite competitive with their prices, but you're talking ****e about Intel chips running hot.

Overheal

youre probably right having just bought an X6 im fairly partial.

And as this older video proves, Intels at least seem(ed) to be a lot more intelligent about cascading heat failure a few years ago. The Intel Chipsets underclocked themselves to avoid burning out, AMDs didnt do this and wound up hitting the ceiling of about 300 Celsius:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgOmMAasqto

If you can afford it the i7s have blasted the X6 in just about every benchmark but for most users, isnt it all just overkill?

The Omen 666

what would you recomend mobo wise for core i5 750, i would want to cover usb3 and sata 6gb to have some sort of upgradability later. i know p55 ud2 is a good overclocker ( again custom pc) Would the antec 650 be ok as far as psu goes or is an offering from ocz etc worth looking at

Overheal

The ASUS boards are pretty sweet both for overclocking and for USB3 and Sata 6gb support. Check those out.

massy086

i would,nt go asus if your on a budget there high end p55 boards are good but there low end are MUCK go gigabite or msi if on a budget

Unregistered.

The Omen 666 wrote: »

what would you recomend mobo wise for core i5 750, i would want to cover usb3 and sata 6gb to have some sort of upgradability later. i know p55 ud2 is a good overclocker ( again custom pc) Would the antec 650 be ok as far as psu goes or is an offering from ocz etc worth looking at

Gigabyte P55A-UD3. I recommend this because it's the one I use. It's solid and reasonably priced.I find the BIOS quite easy to use. Also, you'd be fine with a good (one that can supply a stable voltage and has enough PCI plugs for xFire) 450w PSU tbh .

The Omen 666

Unregistered. wrote: »

Gigabyte P55A-UD3. I recommend this because it's the one I use. It's solid and reasonably priced.I find the BIOS quite easy to use. Also, you'd be fine with a good (one that can supply a stable voltage and has enough PCI plugs for xFire) 450w PSU tbh .

450watt...really?? even to do a modest overclock?

What do u use ram wise???

The Omen 666

so this is what i was thinkin so far,

suggestions and comments welcome. i have a copy of Win7 64, gfx card etc

Untitled.jpg

Unregistered.

The Omen 666 wrote: »

450watt...really?? even to do a modest overclock?

What do u use ram wise???

I have G-skill RipJaws 1600Mhz CL9 installed. Currently they are running at 1300Mhz 7-7-7-29 @ 1.5v. Any 1300 or 1600 mhz ram will do you, do not go for the more expensive stuff. Preferably go for modules that can run their rated speeds at 1.5v. Not essential, however it leaves you with extra headroom for over-clocking.

Overheal

i agree on the ram, DDR3 is specced to run normally at 1.5 but a lot of sticks out there are advertised at 1.65 - you have to remember thats easting up DDR3's tolerance for overvolting.

The Omen 666 wrote: »

450watt...really?? even to do a modest overclock?

What do u use ram wise???

all the benchmark articles ive read that include the system power draw in them show that i5 or Phenom II systems can easily get up to 400 watts of drawn power when under load.

The Omen 666

Overheal wrote: »

all the benchmark articles ive read that include the system power draw in them show that i5 or Phenom II systems can easily get up to 400 watts of drawn power when under load.

When i was asking about the 450volt power, i just assumed from what i was reading that i would def need a 650vold psu to leave headroom for overclocking but i guess unles i using like a 5800 seris ati in crossfire and overclocking etc i should be ok with about 450 - 550

The Omen 666

thatks everyone for their input, its been really helpful

Unregistered.

Overheal wrote: »

all the benchmark articles ive read that include the system power draw in them show that i5 or Phenom II systems can easily get up to 400 watts of drawn power when under load.

I'd like to see these benchmarks. It should be more like ~200w when the CPU is being stress-tested. Baring in mind that benchmarks often stress CPUsand gfx cards beyond what would ever be seen during normal usage! Of course one has to allow for graphics cards and so forth, and when you're just web browsing or listening to music, you will be using eff-all power - most PSU's would be most efficient when drawing 40-70% (that's a vague band, I know) of their capacity!

The Omen 666

Unregistered. wrote: »

I'd like to see these benchmarks. It should be more like ~200w when the CPU is being stress-tested. Baring in mind that benchmarks often stress CPUsand gfx cards beyond what would ever be seen during normal usage! Of course one has to allow for graphics cards and so forth, and when you're just web browsing or listening to music, you will be using eff-all power - most PSU's would be most efficient when drawing 30-70% (that's a vague band, I know) of their capacity!

When mags etc suggest 650 psu's i would assume then that they are covering themselves incase people run multiple cards in CF or SLI?

Overheal

Depends on the GPU. Can't find the benchmark I read it @ work and our history keeps getting wiped :mad: but for example this older power benchmark shows you what systems can draw when the GPUs are under load:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-radeon,2326-17.html

9800 GX2 = 381 Watts

4870 X2 = 465 Watts

That bench was before the X6 and i5/i7, I doubt its gotten that much better? And lets assume you may at some point plan on doing SLI or CrossfireX. With one of those CPUs on board you'd want to plan on a 500W supply. 400W being plenty fine for most. Also, personally, I'm not sure if I like running a PSU at close to its maximum load. So while 750W was more than I needed, the supply is working at worst 1/3 of its maximum load; a little more than half if i overclock and crossfire another 5770

Unregistered.

The Omen 666 wrote: »

When mags etc suggest 650 psu's i would assume then that they are covering themselves incase people run multiple cards in CF or SLI?

They do indeed. Often you won't find enough PCI power plugs on anything less than 650w if you were to crossfire two 5870's for example

The Omen 666

Unregistered. wrote: »

They do indeed. Often you won't find enough PCI power plugs on anything less than 650w if you were to crossfire two 5870's for example

Ok, gotcha now, thanks for that...

alot to think about when gettin a psu (to leave myself open for expansion etc in the future)

Unregistered.

The Omen 666 wrote: »

Ok, gotcha now, thanks for that...

alot to think about when gettin a psu (to leave myself open for expansion etc in the future)

As a rule of thumb, never sacrifice quality for power. Bad things happen.

The Omen 666

Unregistered. wrote: »

As a rule of thumb, never sacrifice quality for power. Bad things happen.

as quality goes, how good or bad are coolermaster / ocz

looking at psu's by them and antec and corsair ( i am assuming that the latter 2 are the better quality)

marco_polo

The Omen 666 wrote: »

as quality goes, how good or bad are coolermaster / ocz

looking at psu's by them and antec and corsair ( i am assuming that the latter 2 are the better quality)

Better to think along more fine grained in terms of product lines rather than Brand names, as alot of PSU manufacturers move between different OEM suppliers at times and mix the good the bad and the ugly.

As I see it Corsair seem able to make consistantly good PSUs, Antecs are largely decent outside of the 'basiq' models to the best of my knowledge. OCZ more of a mixed bag with quality varying quite a bit between different product lines. Don't know too much about Coolermaster PSU they seem to have some nice models like the 700W Silent Pro, and some absolute rubbish like the Extreme Power 550W.

The moral of the story is that is is best to decide on a few PSUs you are most interested in and head for the review sites.

NKOLS

My two cents is on a budget go AMD. Spend €100 on a decent PSU, €170 on an 890fx based motherboard (doesn't have on board graphics but can operate on 16x across 2 pci-e slots for crossfire and also will be future proof with USB 3 and sata 6gbs). Save on the CPU and buy for €150 either a phenom ii 955 or 965 quad core for now. AMD are bringing out new CPUs next year and the first generation of these will probably fit your motherboard. This is a big advantage of AMD in that they try to keep future hardware compatible so if you decide to upgrade again you won't need a new motherboard to fit your new CPU. Also because of this there is a good second hand Market out there to buy your old stuff at a decent price. Finally spend €100-€150 on 4 gb -6gb ddr3 1600mhz ram, check the manufacturers website for your motherboard to make sure it's compatible. With your 5850 you'll be rock solid with that set up and you can add to upgrade over time. Last bit of advice is shop around and use eBay (ram prices are best here) and amazon as well as elara and Komplett. That way you'll get the most bang for ur buck

zappb

At this price point go AMD! +1 but get a cheaper mobo, 880g chipset = 100 euros gets a great cpu and a great mobo with proper usb 3 and sata 6, Id also only buy 2 gigs of ram for starters and buy a GTX 260 instead!

but great build all the same, Id change the case to something with a bit more soul... and sex appeal

The Omen 666

zappb wrote: »

but great build all the same, Id change the case to something with a bit more soul... and sex appeal

What would u change it too??

Ram wise, think i stay with 4 gig, i play soft synths in ableton live so i think 4 is the min in need for that

zappb

got ya,

start here for cases: www.caseking.de

Find out what you like, I have Lian Li's (lan cool range is good value) mainly but Silverstones are beautiful (check this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055986124)

InWin have some crazy stuff coming online,

I would probably end up spending the 600 euro on the case, keyboard, mouse and monitor, and forget the computer parts, so don't listen to me