to golden retrieve or not to golden retrieve?!

yolanda

Hi!

I am a 27 year old married girl very keen to get a golden retriever dog.

We live in the country with a very big garden. I am a nurse so I work 3 days of the week and my husband is home at 6 weekday evenings. Know that retrievers need daily exercise and regular grooming but would be greatful for any additional information people could provide!

Kya1976

It sounds like you got enough time on your hands. Like with any pup/dog I'd say socialisation and training is key.
Make sure to check out the breeder properly, if you decide to go for a pup,so you dont end up going to a puppy farmer.

Best of luck, its a great breed

yolanda

Cheers. Was worried any dog would need constant attention and have done a small bit of research on other breeds such as st. bernard, old english sheepdog, labrador and golden retriever.

Torn between a lab and golden retreiver so will continue to research until I'm happy!

Connavar

yolanda wrote: »

Torn between a lab and golden retreiver so will continue to research until I'm happy!

Get a cross between them if you are too torn to decide

Kya1976

yolanda wrote: »

Cheers. Was worried any dog would need constant attention and have done a small bit of research on other breeds such as st. bernard, old english sheepdog, labrador and golden retriever.

Torn between a lab and golden retreiver so will continue to research until I'm happy!

When it comes to labs and retreiver I'd say they are fairly similar when it comes to exercise needs:)

morganafay

I'd say definitely get a golden retriever, they are great dogs! They've brilliant temperaments in my experience, I've never met one that wasn't lovely and really sweet.

Watch out for them getting fat and lazy though, just make sure they get exercise. They can be a bit too laid back sometimes.

Some people say labs have a more bubbly personality, but that probably also makes them a bit harder to look after. And I've met golden retrievers that were a bit hyper too though, but usually young ones.

Cherry Blossom

Are you planning on having your dog in the house? I have a 14 yr old golden lab and hair comes out by the fist-full. If he lays on the grass outside even for 5 mins you can see his outline in hair after he gets up! No joke the whole yard looks like it was the scene of some horrible crime They shed like this twice a year but are fairly heavy shedders inbetween moulting times as well.
I did live with a retriever for a few months in staff accommodation, no comparison really, still shed more than the average dog but nowhere near the same degree as the lab. I'd say that would be the significant difference between them.

sligopark

Yolanda - rescue centres near you are a source for a dog you will fall in love with I promise

boomerang

Your garden will need to be secure - Goldens are roamers!

yolanda

Yes have been warned of the shedding issue and because of this I couldnt possibly have him inside as a result of this. Have a material couch in the living room with carpet so just wouldnt be feasible.

Intend to do some research in the pounds also as not ruling this possibility out of finding a dog here.

With regards to the garden issue. It is well fenced. The plan is fence off a smaller area within the garden beside the garage that leaves him free to go inside the garage or out.

Very excited about the prospect! Wouldnt anyone have any input on whether to get a puppy or slightly older dog??

Cherry Blossom

If you can't take a few weeks off work to get a puppy used to being alone slowly then go for an older puppy/ adult dog

skywalker_208

yolanda wrote: »

Yes have been warned of the shedding issue and because of this I couldnt possibly have him inside as a result of this. Have a material couch in the living room with carpet so just wouldnt be feasible.

Intend to do some research in the pounds also as not ruling this possibility out of finding a dog here.

With regards to the garden issue. It is well fenced. The plan is fence off a smaller area within the garden beside the garage that leaves him free to go inside the garage or out.

Very excited about the prospect! Wouldnt anyone have any input on whether to get a puppy or slightly older dog??

All dogs are messy to some degree so if you are that worried about your couch/carpet maybe a goldfish would be better

Golden Rets need alot of attention and are best kept in the family home as part of the family - not outside all of the time.
I have a material couch and a Golden Ret but I also have a hoover. he is not allowed up on the couch anyway so there is never any hair on it.
he is also regularly groomed with a furminator (special brush) so this takes alot of the loose hair off him.
He will often take a drink from his bowel and walk around the kitchen afterwards drooling slober so like i said - all dogs are messy to some extent....

SukisMam

If you don't plan to keep your dog inside as part of your family, then I don't recommend you getting a dog at all, retriever or otherwise. No rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside. That's where they're meant to be. If we consider them to be domesticated animals, then that means exactly that, they are part of the household. How would you like to spend your life pottering in and out from the garden to the garage in all weathers on your own?? Really, please don't get a dog unless you're keeping him or her inside. I have an 18 month golden retriever and she's the centre of my life, if I thought anyone would put her out to be on her own I'd be horrified.

shelly_g

SukisMam wrote: »

If you don't plan to keep your dog inside as part of your family, then I don't recommend you getting a dog at all, retriever or otherwise. No rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside. That's where they're meant to be. If we consider them to be domesticated animals, then that means exactly that, they are part of the household. How would you like to spend your life pottering in and out from the garden to the garage in all weathers on your own?? Really, please don't get a dog unless you're keeping him or her inside. I have an 18 month golden retriever and she's the centre of my life, if I thought anyone would put her out to be on her own I'd be horrified.

You took the words right out of my mouth

I have a Goldie that is a year and a half and yes he is very very hairy and slobbers everywhere .... he is a dog and all dogs shed to a certain degree ...

My Goldie lives in the house with us and hates to be away from us ... when we got him he was a new addition to our family not an addition to the garden ..

Id be very sad to think you would get a doggie to only leave him outside ... all dogs incl Goldies are loving and a great addition to your home ....

Our Goldie is part of the family and I can get over the hair and the slobbers cos he is such a lovable dog

sorry to rant but please reconsider getting a dog for the moment untill you are prepared to make one part of your family ..

and believe me even if he is outside you will still have hairs in the house cos they get everywhere ....

Connavar

SukisMam wrote: »

If you don't plan to keep your dog inside as part of your family, then I don't recommend you getting a dog at all, retriever or otherwise. No rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside. That's where they're meant to be. If we consider them to be domesticated animals, then that means exactly that, they are part of the household. How would you like to spend your life pottering in and out from the garden to the garage in all weathers on your own?? Really, please don't get a dog unless you're keeping him or her inside. I have an 18 month golden retriever and she's the centre of my life, if I thought anyone would put her out to be on her own I'd be horrified.

Please tell me your not serious. It is more healthy for the dog to keep it outside. Especially big dogs. And saying that no rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside is plain ridiculous. Its actually the opposite. They need space to run around which they can't get indoors. Now I have no problem with them being allowed inside at times but they belong outside.

tk123

skywalker_208 wrote: »

He will often take a drink from his bowel and walk around the kitchen afterwards drooling slober so like i said - all dogs are messy to some extent....

LOL LOL our GR is the same. He has raised bowls and we keep a town under them so we can quicly mop up his trails when he slobbers all over the kitchen floor!

OP our guy is 1 and there's no way I'd leave him outside on his own. He's happiest when he's with us and loves snuggling up beside us on the couch or down on the floor beside our feet and going asleep!

andreac

Connavar wrote: »

Please tell me your not serious. It is more healthy for the dog to keep it outside. Especially big dogs. And saying that no rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside is plain ridiculous. Its actually the opposite. They need space to run around which they can't get indoors. Now I have no problem with them being allowed inside at times but they belong outside.

Sorry, but thats not true, as in its healthier for them to be outside. Theres no health rules to say its better for them to be outside plus saying they belong outside is not true either, that may be your opinion but i dont and majority of other dog owners on here will not agree with you either.

A dog belongs in the home with their owner/family etc. Yes some dogs like being outside but to just leave a dog outside all the time is very unfair on any pet so no point in getting a dog if its going to be just outside, cruel in my opinion.

Dogs are social animals so thrive on company and attention so how can they get this if they are stuck in a garden on their own all the time.

I own a rottweiler who lives inside and is very healthy. He doesnt like being outside and really only goes out in the garden to go to the loo etc but if he had a choice he stays inside with me when im at home.

They do not necessarily need a big garden to run around either, as i dont have one, but my dog gets plenty of exercise on his walks so when hes at home hes usually chilling out and sleeping beside me not wanting to run around the garden.

shelly_g

Connavar wrote: »

Please tell me your not serious. It is more healthy for the dog to keep it outside. Especially big dogs. And saying that no rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside is plain ridiculous. Its actually the opposite. They need space to run around which they can't get indoors. Now I have no problem with them being allowed inside at times but they belong outside.

i guess u keep yours outside all the time and you think thats Healthy ... would u like to be left outside all the time .. like in the winter when its cold ...seriously ..

We need to replace the dog license system with a License of Competence concerning pet ownership....

my Goldie gets his run around outside and can come in and out as he pleases ... but he is at his happiest when inside with us ... thats how it should be

Connavar

shelly_g wrote: »

i guess u keep yours outside all the time and you think thats Healthy ... would u like to be left outside all the time .. like in the winter when its cold ...seriously ..

We need to replace the dog license system with a License of Competence concerning pet ownership....

my Goldie gets his run around outside and can come in and out as he pleases ... but he is at his happiest when inside with us ... thats how it should be

Fur is for the cold. That is why dogs evolved with it and why their fur is heavier in the winter.
BTW my dog stayed inside or went into his kennel when it was raining and we had to take him in when it was dark as I live close to some farms and we wanted to be sure he didn't attack and of their stock(we never had a problem with this and never saw him become anything other than friendly towards people and other animals but just did it to be sure)

shelly_g

Connavar wrote: »

Fur is for the cold. That is why dogs evolved with it and why their fur is heavier in the winter.
BTW my dog stayed inside or went into his kennel when it was raining and we had to take him in when it was dark as I live close to some farms and we wanted to be sure he didn't attack and of their stock(we never had a problem with this and never saw him become anything other than friendly towards people and other animals but just did it to be sure)

dogs may have fur but they are a social animal and in my house he is part of the family ... they arnt to be ingnored or left out alone ... sure why get a pet just to look out the window at .... whats the point in that .... :rolleyes:

Connavar

shelly_g wrote: »

dogs may have fur but they are a social animal and in my house he is part of the family ... they arnt to be ingnored or left out alone ... sure why get a pet just to look out the window at .... whats the point in that .... :rolleyes:

Believe me, he was far from ignored/left alone.
Anyway we have gone off topic..
Good luck with your choice OP

shelly_g

Connavar wrote: »

Believe me, he was far from ignored/left alone.
Anyway we have gone off topic..
Good luck with your choice OP

well if you would prefer to leave it with that thats grand ...

i dont think we have gone off topic

OP is making a decision to get a dog so I am advising her that dogs are Social animals and hoping she will reconsider before some little fluffy goldie is left outside because of a material couch and carpets ...

they only live at most 14 yrs or maybe a little more ... be nice and make them happy for thoes years instead of alone outside ...

Cherry Blossom

My lab lives outside . . . however he is a farm dog, so is by no means alone outside, he has access to the garage which is attached to the house and is central heated and has wooden floors (has it has never been used as a garage and the kids play in there. He sleeps in the stables with the horses by choice though even in the middle of winter. My westie lives indoors and I don't forsee any problems with this due to shedding/mess etc. Gets her meals in the back hall and is brushed daily so what little loose hair there is ends up on the brush. Maybe reconsider your choice of breed OP? Goldens may be your favourite breed but trust me you will form a strong bond with any dog you end up with. What are the traits you are looking for in a dog and perhaps we can suggest some that may suit better (for indoor living)

shelly_g

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

My lab lives outside . . . however he is a farm dog, so is by no means alone outside, he has access to the garage which is attached to the house and is central heated and has wooden floors (has it has never been used as a garage and the kids play in there. He sleeps in the stables with the horses by choice though even in the middle of winter. My westie lives indoors and I don't forsee any problems with this due to shedding/mess etc. Gets her meals in the back hall and is brushed daily so what little loose hair there is ends up on the brush. Maybe reconsider your choice of breed OP? Goldens may be your favourite breed but trust me you will form a strong bond with any dog you end up with. What are the traits you are looking for in a dog and perhaps we can suggest some that may suit better (for indoor living)

a farm dog is a different situation ... he is a working dog and thrives on been busy in the farm ... and you have provided a nice warm place to sleep if he wants it

OP is looking for a domestic pet ...not a working dog and needs to be aware of what is involved in getting a dog ..

when we got our goldie it was like having a new baby in the house ... you have to regularly feed ..make them rest ... get up at night for puddles ...play with them

i can say from experience of my Goldie ... they are not suited to been out in the garden ..

My fella is currently on his back with all four paws in the air on the kitchen floor having a sleep .... thats his place in our home ...

Cherry Blossom

shelly_g wrote: »

a farm dog is a different situation ... he is a working dog and thrives on been busy in the farm ... and you have provided a nice warm place to sleep if he wants it

He was once a working dog:( He's 14 now and unfortunatly attacked by 2 greyhounds that cleared the garden wall a few years ago. He sustained permenant damage to his back legs in the attack and was lucky to escape with his life. He's mostly a garden ornament these days and is content lying in the garden with the kids playing round him, can't walk any great distance at this stage but still makes it to the stables and back so he can still do his job of guarding the horses at night, am afraid he may not be so happy when he can no longer do this so may have to do the honourable thing by him when it gets to this point, he's definately had a good innings though

shelly_g

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

He was once a working dog:( He's 14 now and unfortunatly attacked by 2 greyhounds that cleared the garden wall a few years ago. He sustained permenant damage to his back legs in the attack and was lucky to escape with his life. He's mostly a garden ornament these days and is content lying in the garden with the kids playing round him, can't walk any great distance at this stage but still makes it to the stables and back so he can still do his job of guarding the horses at night, am afraid he may not be so happy when he can no longer do this so may have to do the honourable thing by him when it gets to this point, he's definately had a good innings though

ah so sorry to hear that ... doing the honourable thing isnt easy ... i had to do it 2 years ago for my mams lab - broke all our hearts taking him in but he was very ill and it was an ease to him ....

merengueca

Connavar wrote: »

Please tell me your not serious. It is more healthy for the dog to keep it outside. Especially big dogs. And saying that no rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside is plain ridiculous. Its actually the opposite. They need space to run around which they can't get indoors. Now I have no problem with them being allowed inside at times but they belong outside.

Both of our boys (lab/collie/retriever mixes) choose too live outside.
We got thm both from a local ISPCA centre with the staff only interested in the security of our garden as one of them (Alfie) was actually on his third visit to the ISPCA after being picked up roaming in different parts of the area. (that problem seems to be solved now, he' not gone walkabout since he moved in).
Paddy will wander in and out of the house all day, but come night time he'll kick up a stink to get outside, regardless of the weather. ALfie just has no interest in being in unless bribed in with food.
They both sleep curled up together, with the cat, in the garage/shed area where we've built them a really cosy 'bedroom'.... or in the summer Paddy will drag one of their pillows to the door step and they sleep there.

Paddy is Lab/Ret mix and without a doubt the most intelligent dog I've ever met. He is obstinate, loyal, fun, protective, gentle, cheeky and the best friend ever. If your heart is set on a retriever or lab why not try a visit to your local shelter, you never know who could be waiting there to steal your heart!

shelly_g

merengueca wrote: »

Both of our boys (lab/collie/retriever mixes) choose too live outside.
We got thm both from a local ISPCA centre with the staff only interested in the security of our garden as one of them (Alfie) was actually on his third visit to the ISPCA after being picked up roaming in different parts of the area. (that problem seems to be solved now, he' not gone walkabout since he moved in).
Paddy will wander in and out of the house all day, but come night time he'll kick up a stink to get outside, regardless of the weather. ALfie just has no interest in being in unless bribed in with food.
They both sleep curled up together, with the cat, in the garage/shed area where we've built them a really cosy 'bedroom'.... or in the summer Paddy will drag one of their pillows to the door step and they sleep there.

Paddy is Lab/Ret mix and without a doubt the most intelligent dog I've ever met. He is obstinate, loyal, fun, protective, gentle, cheeky and the best friend ever. If your heart is set on a retriever or lab why not try a visit to your local shelter, you never know who could be waiting there to steal your heart!

ah they sound like lovely doggies

its great theat they wander in and out of the house even if they choose to snooze outside - Its not that they couldnt possible come in cos of a material couch or carpets ... that was my point I feel the OP needed to know that a dog prefers human contact to being alone outside all the time

well said about the local shelters .... im planning to get my second doggie from a shelter ...just letting the one i have grow up a little more

CarrickMcJoe

We always had golden retrievers as long as I remember. They re great with kids, but need a lot of exercise. As we lived in the country, rarely was there need for a lead even though there were sheep in the next field. The dogs just followed us everywhere.
All of the dogs were got as pups except the last one that was 18 mths old.
They slept in a shed or inside if they wanted though my father had an infra red light hanging over the bed outside.
The last one died of cancer .
Since I moved to town now we have a Westie.
Just dont buy from a puppy farm.

SukisMam

Connavar and andreac, you really are shocking me with your comments. With all due respect, you haven't a clue. If any dog welfare people were on here they'd be enlightening you on a fair few points. ShellyG knows what she's talking about. Golden retrievers are companion animals and thrive on human contact. If you truly believe otherwise then I genuinely worry for your animals.
As for the reply re rescue centres, I know what I am talking about when I say they will not place a dog with someone who plans to leave it outside. Clearly they know what they're at so why do you think you know better?

Connavar

SukisMam wrote: »

Golden retrievers are companion animals and thrive on human contact. If you truly believe otherwise then I genuinely worry for your animals.

I don't think either of us implied that they don't require human contact. In fact andreac was agreeing with all of shelly g's points if you look at the thanks under tham

SukisMam wrote: »

As for the reply re rescue centres, I know what I am talking about when I say they will not place a dog with someone who plans to leave it outside. Clearly they know what they're at so why do you think you know better?

I have this question then. Why do I always hear that a big dog requires a big garden if they aren't supposed to be out in it. Most dog owners I know keep their dogs outside with access to some shelter(be it a kennel or garage). As I said my dog was "allowed inside" however I do not feel that they should be kept in all day except when they need to go to the loo

skywalker_208

Connavar wrote: »

however I do not feel that they should be kept in all day except when they need to go to the loo

I dont think they mean have it in all day and bring it to the shops with you in a little designer handbag like you would see on MTV

What they mean is the dog lives inside as in sleeps there, eats there and has a bed there - but has full access to the outside area/garden and can come and go as they please. They most likely will spend most of their day outside even though they live inside.

Connavar

skywalker_208 wrote: »

I dont think they mean have it in all day and bring it to the shops with you in a little designer handbag like you would see on MTV

What they mean is the dog lives inside as in sleeps there, eats there and has a bed there - but has full access to the outside area/garden and can come and go as they please. They most likely will spend most of their day outside even though they live inside.

I was beginning to think that I misunderstood them in this way too when reading back over the posts. It just really annoys me when I see people treating animals like you mention as MTV(I have seen people doing this in real life)

ISDW

andreac wrote: »

Sorry, but thats not true, as in its healthier for them to be outside. Theres no health rules to say its better for them to be outside plus saying they belong outside is not true either, that may be your opinion but i dont and majority of other dog owners on here will not agree with you either.

A dog belongs in the home with their owner/family etc. Yes some dogs like being outside but to just leave a dog outside all the time is very unfair on any pet so no point in getting a dog if its going to be just outside, cruel in my opinion.

Dogs are social animals so thrive on company and attention so how can they get this if they are stuck in a garden on their own all the time.

I own a rottweiler who lives inside and is very healthy. He doesnt like being outside and really only goes out in the garden to go to the loo etc but if he had a choice he stays inside with me when im at home.

They do not necessarily need a big garden to run around either, as i dont have one, but my dog gets plenty of exercise on his walks so when hes at home hes usually chilling out and sleeping beside me not wanting to run around the garden.

SukisMam wrote: »

Connavar and andreac, you really are shocking me with your comments. With all due respect, you haven't a clue. If any dog welfare people were on here they'd be enlightening you on a fair few points. ShellyG knows what she's talking about. Golden retrievers are companion animals and thrive on human contact. If you truly believe otherwise then I genuinely worry for your animals.
As for the reply re rescue centres, I know what I am talking about when I say they will not place a dog with someone who plans to leave it outside. Clearly they know what they're at so why do you think you know better?

Did you even bother to read andreac's post? I'm sure she'll be on here soon enough to reply to you, but as its her birthday, maybe she's off having a good time instead:D I have met her dog many times and trust me, you do not need to worry for him, he is one of the most spoilt dogs I know, but then if you'd actually read what she'd written, you'd see that yourself.

I totally agree that GRs need to be with their families, I rehome huskies, and have no problem with them living outside, as most of them prefer it, however, I expect their new owners to allow them in the house for social interaction, not just keep them outside all of the time. I don't know what the point is of getting a dog and then just dumping it outside.

SukisMam

There's no point in trying to twist my words, I never said or implied that the dog should be locked up in the house. I said the dog should live as a family member and be included in the household and live inside with the family. The garden is for playing in, not living in.
I don't think there's any point in us continuing this conversation because clearly you have your views which I completely unreservedly disagree with and object to.

SukisMam

Connavar wrote: »

Please tell me your not serious. It is more healthy for the dog to keep it outside. Especially big dogs. And saying that no rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside is plain ridiculous. Its actually the opposite. They need space to run around which they can't get indoors. Now I have no problem with them being allowed inside at times but they belong outside.

Connavar, you really have the most backward views. You shouldn't be allowed have a dog at all.

andreac

SukisMam wrote: »

Connavar and andreac, you really are shocking me with your comments. With all due respect, you haven't a clue. If any dog welfare people were on here they'd be enlightening you on a fair few points. ShellyG knows what she's talking about. Golden retrievers are companion animals and thrive on human contact. If you truly believe otherwise then I genuinely worry for your animals.
As for the reply re rescue centres, I know what I am talking about when I say they will not place a dog with someone who plans to leave it outside. Clearly they know what they're at so why do you think you know better?

HUH????

Please read my posts again as i think you have mixed them up with someone else. I am the one saying the dog SHOULD be in the house with the owner/family and not left outside on its own. So please read my replies properly before attacking my posts. If you read my posts you would see that my dog DOES live inside with me and is rarely in the garden.

Connavar

SukisMam wrote: »

Connavar, you really have the most backward views. You shouldn't be allowed have a dog at all.

I phrased that badly. Please read my later posts and then you will understand what I am trying to say. And you have no right to say that I shouldn't have a dog. My dog was well cared for and given piles of attention. He was allowed inside, just not kept inside(slept in a kennel unless it was stormy or too cold and he ate inside)

cotton

SukisMam, I think you're mixing andreac up with someone else....

Cherry Blossom

SukisMam wrote: »

Connavar and andreac, you really are shocking me with your comments. With all due respect, you haven't a clue.

andreac wrote: »

Sorry, but thats not true, as in its healthier for them to be outside.

I think you misread the first line there Please read it in context with the post she quoted and the rest of her post.

Also, I think the OP has left the building.

Andreac - Happy belated birthday!

Cherry Blossom

skywalker_208 wrote: »

I dont think they mean have it in all day and bring it to the shops with you in a little designer handbag like you would see on MTV

I'm sorry but I now have a vision in my head of a woman lugging a great big suitcase on wheels around with a golden retrievers head sticking out of the top

shelly_g

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I'm sorry but I now have a vision in my head of a woman lugging a great big suitcase on wheels around with a golden retrievers head sticking out of the top

it would need to be some size of a suitcase

my Goldie is currently lying under the kitchen table asleep .... means no space to push chairs in :rolleyes: lazy git - he has been out all morning and is enjoying his comforts inside now .... had enough running and racing for a while

sure isnt that what having a dog is all about- they run and race and then sleep at your feet while you relax

Swarlez

SukisMam wrote: »

Connavar, you really have the most backward views. You shouldn't be allowed have a dog at all.

This statement is totally ridiculous. Are you really saying he shouldn't he have a dog because he keeps it outside. My two dogs arent allowed inside the house. they're trained not to go inside. they have a pumphouse and an enclosure where we put them to bed at night. during the day they're left out around the garden (about two acres of land) and they are two of the he the healthiest dogs you will ever see. One reason for me having two dogs is because i like for them to always have a companion. And also what gives you the right to tell him he cant have a dog?

SukisMam

Connavar wrote: »

Please tell me your not serious. It is more healthy for the dog to keep it outside. Especially big dogs. And saying that no rescue centre in the country would give a dog to someone who isn't going to allow the dog live inside is plain ridiculous. Its actually the opposite. They need space to run around which they can't get indoors. Now I have no problem with them being allowed inside at times but they belong outside.

You haven't a clue. Please stay away from dogs.

Cherry Blossom

SukisMam wrote: »

You haven't a clue. Please stay away from dogs.

Red card, not yellow!

Locking thread, One year old arguments need to stay in the past :rolleyes: