UFC 118: Toney vs Couture **spoilers inside**

SDTimeout

Daniel2oo9 wrote: »

Yes but that was when GSP Was Up 4-0 against alves not down 4-0 and calling him a little cocksuker:pac:

Regardless when it was it was still a "poor" coaching call.

Personally i think your argument is invalid anyway as you're plucking form joe rogan. I'm shocked you haven't mentioned BJ's leg dexterity yet.

It's becoming a habit with UFC and MMA events i go for a run afterwards to burn off energy drink! Then to when i'm running compare myself to who i considered the worst on that card and make a mental note never to go into a fight like that ( or exam for that matter ) to be there alone with nothing to do or defend yourself with.

Oh_Noes

Daniel2oo9 wrote: »

Ehh No,thats why hes got Greg Jackson Best MMA Coach IMHO They actually Give Him Technical advice Not "Hes a Little Cocksucker"

That's rubbish. Greg Jackson just happens to be GSP's coach, he's not some winning formula. Look at Keith Jardine. He could have won the four fights in a row he lost. But no-one blames Greg Jackson. You can only work with the fighter in question and the talent level of that fighter. BJ has more talent than anyone in the UFC but he just doesn't seem arsed. He probably wouldn't have heard his corner whether they were shouting swearwords or telling him mathematical equations.

Joe Rogan is a tv show host/comedian btw, what he says is just spur of the moment stuff to fill silence so his wages are paid.

SDTimeout

Before i go daniel why did you thank iron's post. He effectively said and disproved exactly what you were giving off about BJ for....

Daniel2oo9

SDTimeout wrote: »

Regardless when it was it was still a "poor" coaching call.

Personally i think your argument is invalid anyway as you're plucking form joe rogan. I'm shocked you haven't mentioned BJ's leg dexterity yet.

It's becoming a habit with UFC and MMA events i go for a run afterwards to burn off energy drink! Then to when i'm running compare myself to who i considered the worst on that card and make a mental note never to go into a fight like that ( or exam for that matter ) to be there alone with nothing to do or defend yourself with.

What?

SDTimeout

Daniel2oo9 wrote: »

What?

Sorry that was just me rambling on at the end!!

By all accounts ignore the valid points proving you wrong!.

I'm away guys, not the best of cards but roll with the punches and all that.

Devastator

digme wrote: »

bj has left his body lol, christ he looks pissed

I thought he looked worried. Easy to say now....maybe....but I did bet on Edgar

DeVore wrote: »

jesus, that was shoite.

The whole card apart from Maia was pretty awful.

DeV.

I enjoyed it. Diaz/Davis was good aul scrap.

SDTimeout wrote: »

By all accounts ignore the valid points proving you wrong!.

hahaha:D

karl bracken

was it just me or was the Boston crowd booing everything!!

Hail 2 Da Thief

Joe Lauzon dominated Ruediger & looked very impressive!

It was a pity Davis got cut so badly early on in his fight as he made a good start to the fight!

The LW division is really changing shape with both Penn & Florian losing!

The Couture v Toney fight became the farce many feared it would be!

Gerard.C

Great night to be a boxing fan! Wonder what the 2 lads from the boxing forum will have to say for themselves :pac:

Forest Master

Gerard.C wrote: »

Great night to be a boxing fan! Wonder what the 2 lads from the boxing forum will have to say for themselves :pac:

Probably just a bunch of pigheaded non-sensical excuses.

e.g.
* now let's see Randy fight Toney under boxing rules.
* Toney was washed up anyway.
* Who Toney ever beat?
* I knew Couture would be afraid to stand with him.
etc.

BoxingIrel.com

Forest Master wrote: »

Probably just a bunch of pigheaded non-sensical excuses.

e.g.
* now let's see Randy fight Toney under boxing rules.
* Toney was washed up anyway.
* Who Toney ever beat?
* I knew Couture would be afraid to stand with him.
etc.

Gerard.C wrote: »

Great night to be a boxing fan! Wonder what the 2 lads from the boxing forum will have to say for themselves :pac:

Probably the same thing I was saying last night.

I will agree with Dana White on one thing and that is that is made the UFC look like a circus act. An in shape Hall of Famer v a fat rank novice - that fight wouldnt have been sanctioned by any boxing authority.

The only thing that way a victory over way James Toney's ego - he thought he could walk in there and beat a wrestler at MMA without training in any of the techniques employed - he was wrong.

Big Ears

Gerard.C wrote: »

Great night to be a boxing fan! Wonder what the 2 lads from the boxing forum will have to say for themselves :pac:

Not bad tbh, Marcus Maidana had a much tougher and very close fight with Demarcus Corley and Giovanni Segura ended the long undefeated streak of one of the greatest small men in boxing we've ever seen Ivan Calderon.

Unfortunately MMA fans had to put up with the farce of Couture vs Toney and a one sided main event as Edgar dominated Penn, although I suppose Edger's performance was entertaining to see.

Forest Master

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

Probably the same thing I was saying last night.

Why do you keep putting "fight" in inverted commas when referring to MMA? It's more of a fight than boxing is. Boxing is 1 element of a fight - MMA is all elements. Are you really that arrogant?

Actually, I think you've already answered that:

Forest Master wrote:

* now let's see Randy fight Toney under boxing rules.

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

maybe Couture will do Toney the honour of taking him on at his sport

Forest Master wrote:

* Toney was washed up anyway.

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

an inshape Hall of Famer beat a fat rank novice

Yep - as expected. :rolleyes:

BoxingIrel.com

Forest Master wrote: »

Why do you keep putting "fight" in inverted commas when referring to MMA? It's more of a fight than boxing is. Boxing is 1 element of a fight - MMA is all elements. Are you really that arrogant?

Actually, I think you've already answered that:

Yep - as expected. :rolleyes:

I was using inverted commas because I knew it would be a farce, and guess what.........

Yeah you really got me - that guy listed out all the most relavent and pertinant arguments against someone saying that last night was some kind of victory for MMA over Boxing! well done. Smart guy! :cool:

Forest Master

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

I was using inverted commas because I knew it would be a farce, and guess what.........

Your pigheadedness & arrogance is shocking, but to be expected from someone so close-minded. The only farce about last night was how crap the boxer actually fared against a mixed martial artist. It was a real fight where anything goes - the closest you'll ever see to a legal real fight scenario - Randy destroyed him - his boxing skills were nullified by a cheeky single-leg takedown that looked too easy. Pretty much end of - my points are backed up by hard facts & evidence. I don't even know what your points are, let alone seeing any evidence to back them up!

Genki Sudo

This joke of a fight was always going to bring out a load of cretins talking nonsense. Thank **** it's over.

BoxingIrel.com

Forest Master wrote: »

Your pigheadedness & arrogance is shocking, but to be expected from someone so close-minded. The only farce about last night was how crap the boxer actually fared against a mixed martial artist. It was a real fight where anything goes - the closest you'll ever see to a legal real fight scenario - Randy destroyed him - his boxing skills were nullified by a cheeky single-leg takedown that looked too easy. Pretty much end of - my points are backed up by hard facts & evidence. I don't even know what your points are, let alone seeing any evidence to back them up!

so was it or wasnt it a farce?

hard facts and evidence. Anyone would think that I thought Toney would win. I actually called it bang on didnt I?

Toney was a fish out of water - or probably a beached whale would be more accurate.

Devastator

Big Ears wrote: »

although I suppose Edger's performance was entertaining to see.

oh you "suppose" do you :rolleyes: BJ is/was probably the best LW in the UFC!


Why can you not give MMA fighters the same obvious respect you have for boxers (eg, "the long undefeated streak of one of the greatest small men in boxing we've ever seen") you really can't be that bitter.

TheTMO

I don't really know why this is even being discussed tbh.

Of course a boxer would be completely dominated in an MMA match, boxers have absolutely no clue how to fight on the ground, avoid take downs, deal with kicks etc.

Why is this a suprise for so many and indeed a victory for MMA for others? Everyone knows in real life an MMA fighter will always beat a boxer due to that very issue.

I see some people applying it to a real life scenario and its very true, one inciddent will always stay in my mind. When I was younger there was a lad on the estate who was a brilliant boxer, no one messed with him. He got in a fight one day with a lad who had never boxed in his life. The lad tackled the boxer to the ground and completely kicked the living **** out of him. His boxing was utterly useless once the fight went to the ground, and that is what happened last night to Toney albeit on a much larger scale.

Forest Master

TheTMO wrote: »

Everyone knows in real life an MMA fighter will always beat a boxer due to that very issue.

Unfortunately a lot of boxing fans don't realise that.
The amount of people I've heard in the pub or on construction sites, etc, spouting uninformed crap like "Mike Tyson would bait any of those fagg*ts", or "Bernard Dunne would knock any of them out with swift hook to da bleedin' head". You can't argue with them, because they're ignorant & close-minded.

And THAT is the general public perception of Boxing vs. MMA in a real fight situation.

BoxingIrel.com

Forest Master wrote: »

Unfortunately a lot of boxing fans don't realise that.
The amount of people I've heard in the pub or on construction sites, etc, spouting uninformed crap like "Mike Tyson would bait any of those fagg*ts", or "Bernard Dunne would knock any of them out with swift hook to da bleedin' head". You can't argue with them, because they're ignorant & close-minded.

And THAT is the general public perception of Boxing vs. MMA in a real fight situation.

Bernard Dunne couldnt knock out anyone with a "left hook".

Lets face facts - the only winner last night was James Toney.

He made boxing look crap infront of MMA fans and made MMA look like a circus act in front of boxing fans.

"But Toney wanted the fight"

Of course he did, because no one in boxing would give him a pay day.

Dana White did - $750,000 - much more than most MMA artists - and he didnt even have to train for the "fight" - just turn up.

James lost the "fight" but won at the cash register and thats all he wanted.

BoxingIrel.com

p.s. I just hope the other MMA organisations shun him now as well.

cowzerp

A Boxer would be very good in the stand up part of MMA but as said be out of there zone on the ground-most people don't understand MMA or Boxing for that matter, What i would say is some styles of Boxer would be more suited to MMA than others, James Toney was made for a wrestler-even in his peak, he relied on a great guard and counter punching, His footwork was not a great tool like most Boxers, therefore taking him down would be very easy-Dana knew that-he's a Boxing man.

The fight was a washed up Boxer 5 stone over peak weight who cant get a payday in Boxing V a legend of MMA who is still a top contender in the UFC, Boxing v MMA debate is stupid in reality but when there mismatched so badly like this it's even more ridiculous.

A peak Boxer, even someone like David Haye with 9 months takedown defense and basic wrestling would be very dangerous in MMA, as he has footwork unlike the flat footed Toney and can KO people in 1 punch, But the Boxing v MMA debate is like saying Maia could not beat Silva with BJJ even though maia trains in MMA, Basically no 1 sport alone will hack it in modern MMA.

MMA is the best all round fighting system in a 1 on 1 MMA match, that does not make it the best combat sport-thats a matter of opinion, i like both. also i still think on the street Boxing is the safest way to go, but knowing a bit of everything is obviously great.

YamaMotoYama

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

Toney was a fish out of water

Couldn't agree more... a top flight boxer would shread a top flight MMA guy in a boxing ring under Queensbury rules. An MMA specialist hammers a boxer under MMA rules any day!

Its comparing apples and oranges.

Forest Master

So to summarise - can we all agree that in a real fight, a top MMA fighter will beat a top boxer 19 times out of 20?

MrStuffins

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

p.s. I just hope the other MMA organisations shun him now as well.

For your sake you should hope all MMA organisations shun ALL boxers. Because, as mush as boxing "fans" would like to think a boxer would stand a chance against an MMA practicioner in a FIGHT, last night proved that there's no hope!

Even the Mods over on the boxing forum thought Toney would win :pac:

Boxing is dying, MMA is growing and taking it's place and YOU KNOW IT!

And whatever you say about a "circus" or this and that, the fact of the matter is, that fight was put together to get people to watch. And guess what, YOU WATCHED! And so did a lot of Boxing fans who wouldn't normally watch UFC.

Mission accomplished for Mr.White!

Bodhisopha

MrStuffins wrote: »

For your sake you should hope all MMA organisations shun ALL boxers. Because, as mush as boxing "fans" would like to think a boxer would stand a chance against an MMA practicioner in a FIGHT, last night proved that there's no hope!

Even the Mods over on the boxing forum thought Toney would win :pac:

Boxing is dying, MMA is growing and taking it's place and YOU KNOW IT!

And whatever you say about a "circus" or this and that, the fact of the matter is, that fight was put together to get people to watch. And guess what, YOU WATCHED! And so did a lot of Boxing fans who wouldn't normally watch UFC.

Mission accomplished for Mr.White!

Boxing is dying? Evidence please. But first remember, boxing is a worldwide sport.

cowzerp

Forest Master wrote: »

So to summarise - can we all agree that in a real fight, a top MMA fighter will beat a top boxer 19 times out of 20?

A real MMA fight?!
or a street fight where they dont know each others strenghts?

If its MMA then i'd hope so as they train to beat Boxers, Boxers dont train to beat Grapplers.

if its the street then the odds are the fight will end up before the MMA lad even knows the other lad is a boxer.

BoxingIrel.com

MrStuffins wrote: »

Boxing is dying, MMA is growing and taking it's place and YOU KNOW IT!

Aye, dead as a do-do hombre!

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

A real MMA fight?!
or a street fight where they dont know each others strenghts?

If its MMA then i'd hope so as they train to beat Boxers, Boxers dont train to beat Grapplers.

if its the street then the odds are the fight will end up before the MMA lad even knows the other lad is a boxer.

Especially if it's anything like Roger Huerta's last "opponent"

Bodhisopha

MrStuffins wrote: »

Especially if it's anything like Roger Huerta's last "opponent"

Are you going to back up your statement that "boxing is dying" or do the internet equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears shouting blah blah blah?

MrStuffins

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Boxing is dying? Evidence please. But first remember, boxing is a worldwide sport.

Every sport is a "Worldwide Sport"! They have GAA clubs everywhere. I used to play for a hurling team in Spain for God sake!

And MMA has gone from being banned in most of America to having UFC travel the world and put on shows in the UK, Germany, Abu Dhabi, Australia...........

Sounds pretty worldwide to me too!

MrStuffins

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Are you going to back up your statement that "boxing is dying" or do the internet equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears shouting blah blah blah?

I'll let Mark Hauser answer for me

Bodhidharma

Putting aside all of this MMA v Boxing nonsense, I am just glad that Kenny Florian was beaten by Maynard. I always felt that Kenny was just a boring individual with no charisma who chokes on big nights. Maynard on the other hand is just a hard bastard and I like that.

MrStuffins

Bodhidharma wrote: »

Putting aside all of this MMA v Boxing nonsense, I am just glad that Kenny Florian was beaten by Maynard. I always felt that Kenny was just a boring individual with no charisma who chokes on big nights. Maynard on the other hand is just a hard bastard and I like that.

Your post is both irrelivant and inaccurate!

3hn2givr7mx1sc

MMA is becoming more and more popular by the day. About 2 years ago a lot of my friends did boxing or were going to start it up(wasn't ever gonna happen, tbh), but now of the ones that started boxing most have moved to MMA and the ones that were "going to start boxing" a few years ago now have actually started MMA.

I love boxing, have done since Bernard Dunne's first 'big' fight on RTÉ and without it I probably wouldn't look twice at MMA, but MMA is going to demolish boxing in PPV sales in the next few years.
Boxing is too split-up, what is it, 4 or 5 'world titles' per division? Complete money-making bollox. When two MMA fighters are at the top of their division, be it HW, LW, whatever theey fight eachother, none if this shíte like Pacquiao and Mayweather goes on with all the pussying around.


/rant over.

Bodhidharma

MrStuffins wrote: »

Your post is both irrelivant and inaccurate!

How do yo make that out? Florian v Maynard was on card, I think its as relevant as all the othr comments.

My own opinion of a fighter is inaccurate? I think I know my own opinion thank you very much.

MrStuffins

Bodhidharma wrote: »

How do yo make that out? Florian v Maynard was on card, I think its as relevant as all the othr comments.

My own opinion of a fighter is inaccurate? I think I know my own opinion thank you very much.

His personal traits are irrelivant in my opinion.

Your opinion about him "choking" on the big events is inaccurate. His previous fight was a Headline fight live on TV against one of the Best Lightweights of his time.

He's been Co-Main even many many times and it has never fased him.

Now, if you'd have said that when he fights the creme de la creme of the dicision, he falls short... i could agree with that.

But choking? Not a hope! Every time i've seen him beaten, he's been beaten soundly by the better fighter!

MrStuffins

baz2009 wrote: »

MMA is becoming more and more popular by the day. About 2 years ago a lot of my friends did boxing or were going to start it up(wasn't ever gonna happen, tbh), but now of the ones that started boxing most have moved to MMA and the ones that were "going to start boxing" a few years ago now have actually started MMA.

I love boxing, have done since Bernard Dunne's first 'big' fight on RTÉ and without it I probably wouldn't look twice at MMA, but MMA is going to demolish boxing in PPV sales in the next few years.
Boxing is too split-up, what is it, 4 or 5 'world titles' per division? Complete money-making bollox. When two MMA fighters are at the top of their division, be it HW, LW, whatever theey fight eachother, none if this shíte like Pacquiao and Mayweather goes on with all the pussying around.


/rant over.

Amd Boxing fans can't even refute this. "Big" fights just don't happen in Boxing any more. You hardly ever see the No.1 and No.2 guys fighting each other and it's all down to money.

Look at Ricky Hatton, he had to struggle and sack his manager just to get to go to the States to fight the best of the best. A true warrior who wanted to test himself and become the P4P best in the World!

Frank Warren tried to tie him down to fighting in the MEN Arena against relative nobodies and fill his pockets with cash.

Boxing is full of Frank Warrens and always will be!

Floyd is running from Pac. Can you imagine if a GSP v Silva fight was scheduled and Silva started doing what Floyd is doing? It would never happen, but more importantly, it would never be ALLOWED to happen!

Bodhidharma

MrStuffins wrote: »

His personal traits are irrelivant in my opinion.

Your opinion about him "choking" on the big events is inaccurate. His previous fight was a Headline fight live on TV against one of the Best Lightweights of his time.

He's been Co-Main even many many times and it has never fased him.

Now, if you'd have said that when he fights the creme de la creme of the dicision, he falls short... i could agree with that.

But choking? Not a hope! Every time i've seen him beaten, he's been beaten soundly by the better fighter!

Well in my opinion personal traits are very important in your estimation of a fighter. People, and I'm of one them, like to identify with a fighter and support that fighter based on their opinion of the man. Many fighters build a following this way, Mike Tyson springs to mind. While someone like Mayweather may be technically far better they dislike him because of aspects of his personality they dislike.

I think Florian is a good fighter, but no particularly exciting or charismatic. As for the 'choking' thing, Dana White agrees with it, so I'll take his view over yours thanks.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_UFC_118_Dana_White_Says_James_Toney_Is_Done_With_?vid=10012377&tid=105

MrStuffins

Bodhidharma wrote: »

Dana White agrees with it, so I'll take his view over yours thanks.

:rolleyes:

Bodhidharma

MrStuffins wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Wow, what a fantasic reply, a sarcastic smiley face. You should join a debate team

Bodhisopha

MrStuffins wrote: »

Every sport is a "Worldwide Sport"! They have GAA clubs everywhere. I used to play for a hurling team in Spain for God sake!

And MMA has gone from being banned in most of America to having UFC travel the world and put on shows in the UK, Germany, Abu Dhabi, Australia...........

Sounds pretty worldwide to me too!

Err, not sure what point you're trying to make. I said keep in mind boxing is a worldwide sport, meaning to take more than just the US into account. Taking Ireland as an example, boxing has never been stronger in this country, we have some good prospects both here and abroad and our amateur scene is very strong at the moment. Chances are we are entering a golden period for boxing here over the next 10 or so years. Hardly dying is it? That's just taking our little country as an example. You can make other arguments for why boxing is in great health in countries like Germany and Japan also, to name a few.

The Hauser article is just a sensationalist headline followed by problems in boxing today. I acknowledge those problems but it's a far cry from dying, as you would believe.

The fact is boxing is poorly run, but the appetite for it is as big as ever. If Pacquiao v Mayweather was to get made it would blow anything MMA has to offer for the next 20 years out of the water.

MrStuffins

Bodhidharma wrote: »

Wow, what a fantasic reply, a sarcastic smiley face. You should join a debate team

Saying "Dana White thinks so" to refute my argument really isn't worth replying to.

Form your own opinions.

MrStuffins

Bodhisopha wrote: »

If Pacquiao v Mayweather was to get made it would blow anything MMA has to offer for the next 20 years out of the water.

I completely agree with this!

But it won't happen.

And the fact that you have to say "if" it happens says it all really.

If Floyd and Pac were Mixed Martial Artists, this fight would've happened a long time ago.

Bodhidharma

MrStuffins wrote: »

Saying "Dana White thinks so" to refute my argument really isn't worth replying to.

Form your own opinions.

Read through my first post, it IS my opinion

MrStuffins

Bodhidharma wrote: »

Read through my first post, it IS my opinion

I've read your post. But it is now obvious you took words from Dana White's mouth.

You didn't actually back up your statement with anything other than saying "well, this guy agrees with me so THERE!"

Bodhisopha

MrStuffins wrote: »

I completely agree with this!

But it won't happen.

And the fact that you have to say "if" it happens says it all really.

If Floyd and Pac were Mixed Martial Artists, this fight would've happened a long time ago.

Yeah, like Fedor against the top UFC guy of any time?

Your point was "boxing is dying". You have failed to adequately back it up.

Devastator

MrStuffins wrote: »

"Big" fights just don't happen in Boxing any more.

C'MON!!!

Haye Vs Harrison will probably be signed this week! :eek:

Bodhidharma

MrStuffins wrote: »

I've read your post. But it is now obvious you took words from Dana White's mouth.

You didn't actually back up your statement with anything other than saying "well, this guy agrees with me so THERE!"

Its obvious is it? Not really, just because someone shares an opinion that means that you've been influenced by the other person?

Ok, here's backing it up:

What were Kennys biggest fights in the UFC
1. Ultimate fighter finale v Diego Sanchez - lost
2. Sean Sherk fight for title - lost
3. BJ Penn fight for title - lost
4. Maynard fight - lost

In my opinion Florian is technically a more rounded fighter than Maynard and Sherk, and so should have beaten them. The maynard and penn fights in particular he did very little.

I find it funny that on an internet forum made for people giving opinions (and thats all they are) you take exception to me having one