Downloadable Characters

Sairus

With Makoto dropping on the PS3 and 360 today for BlazeBlue CS I'm curious to see everyone's thoughts on pay for DLC characters.
Soul Calibur 4 also dabbled in DLC characters with console exclusives Yoda and Darth Vader. However, while I'm quite the SC enthusiast, I never bothered picking up Vader as he had no business being in that game.
With Blazblue though I will probably purchase each character when they come out, though at €6.50 a pop that'll make Blazeblue a damn expensive fighting game.
The obvious pros to getting DLC characters is an expanded roster to a popular game - pretty much everyone wants that and that it could reignite interest in a game as it falls out of the public eye.
Con wise DLC characters are going to be a rather annoying thorn in everyone's side for running tournaments, and of course the obvious swelling of a game's price.
What do you think?

chopperbyrne

DLC characters should be free.

Costumes, stages, music and all other stuff can be sold, but characters should remain free.

Placebo

chopperbyrne wrote: »

DLC characters should be free.

Costumes, stages, music and all other stuff can be sold, but characters should remain free.

why do you think that?
surely its a marketing scheme, therefore having a competitive balance [i.e being able to play without any hassel in xgc] is hardly a concern.

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

why do you think that?
surely its a marketing scheme, therefore having a competitive balance [i.e being able to play without any hassel in xgc] is hardly a concern.

I'd say competative balance is a concern seeing as fg's live or die in general based on how many people adopt it for tournament play.

I hear SSF4 did all right.

Orim

Because anything that is nessecary to play the core of a game has to be free or there will be a massive backlash.

Casuals will not want to pay for something that is a core part of the game.
Hardcore players won't want to pay for a competitive aspect of the game.

It would be a terrible marketing decision to make these characters cost money, unless it's a part of a massive DLC that would very nearly be a new update.

The characters on Xbox would be fine, as long as people get them and can bring in a HD/usb MU. Playstation might be more of a problem.

Placebo

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'd say competative balance is a concern seeing as fg's live or die in general based on how many people adopt it for tournament play.

I hear SSF4 did all right.

Part of that is true however, how would the game make money if it 'lives'
apart from a successor. Eg Street Fighter 3 for instance. Only profit after re-release was a re-release for different platforms, but we wont be seeing new platforms for a while.

Orim wrote: »

Casuals will not want to pay for something that is a core part of the game.
Hardcore players won't want to pay for a competitive aspect of the game.

But the game has been bought at this stage, most DLC come after a while or they should [exception of blaz blu....]

Orim

Placebo wrote: »

But the game has been bought at this stage, most DLC come after a while or they should [exception of blaz blu....]

Yes but there is future games and the bull**** DLCs like costumes that need to bought. I also added that if given enough time and a big enough DLC it could be justified ala an "ST" update with no disc. I would always prefer a physical update but it could be justified in the same way Super was.

J0hnick

chopperbyrne wrote: »

DLC characters should be free.

Costumes, stages, music and all other stuff can be sold, but characters should remain free.

Agreed, has anyone seen the BlazBlue section on the US PS Store ?, its a joke the amount of fluff DLC they're selling. I imported Calamity Trigger back when it came out, so I wasnt too miffed about the Euro version having unlimited versions of every character (no sane person uses them online anyway) and all the extra colours, the wait for almost a whole year after its initial Japanese/US release was nowhere near worth it. The game was/is great and I loved every minute of playing it, but ive played the leaked version of continuum shift on my PC and even if the console version has Mu-12 as well its nowhere near the leap from Calamity Trigger as SSF4 was from vanilla.

Sell all the alternative colours and voice overs you want, hell you can even sell stages and music if you like, but there is no excuse for a DLC character that's available on day 1 and was clearly done when the game was finished to be sold separately. Even if she wasnt finished in time to be on the disc (apparently) she is now and will be when the european version hits, if we get her for free and the other two characters are priced more reasonably then Makoto (shes around $8 on the US PS Store ???) Ill consider it, but otherwise Ill just wait till the next iteration in the series.

Sairus

J0hnick wrote: »

Even if she wasnt finished in time to be on the disc (apparently) she is now and will be when the european version hits, if we get her for free and the other two characters are priced more reasonably then Makoto (shes around $8 on the US PS Store ???) Ill consider it, but otherwise Ill just wait till the next iteration in the series.

She's not. You only get her included with the Super Limited Edition yoke - and that's just a code to download her.

Owwmykneecap

I hate dlc and i hate what it's doing to the industry.

If I buy your game be grateful and don't remind me of your greed every 5 minutes.
I bought a game, not a storefront.

Placebo

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

I hate dlc and i hate what it's doing to the industry.

If I buy your game be grateful and don't remind me of your greed every 5 minutes.
I bought a game, not a storefront.

2.1 Street Fighter II — The World Warrior
2.2 Street Fighter II′ - Champion Edition
2.3 Street Fighter II′ - Hyper Fighting
2.4 Super Street Fighter II — The New Challengers
2.5 Street Fighter II Turbo
2.6 Hyper Street Fighter II
2.7 Super Street Fighter II Turbo

note sure of the accuray http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_Fighter_II
but some what applicable

Sabre0001

Not a massive fan of DLC in certain instances and this would be one. As stated above, you can make it a nightmare for tournament play (think of less hardcore people that found a DLC character that they use exclusively). There are more than enough characters in a game usually without the need to add extra. Then of course, there is the issue of balance.

One game I had a major gripe with upon purchasing was Forza 3 - hundreds of cars in the game and yet they insist on advertising to me that I can pay a few hundred points for five more...No thanks. And again, if it went to tournaments, lines have to be drawn.

K.O.Kiki

BBCS Makoto is DLC because she wasn't in the arcade release AFAIK.

Please don't forget that "fluff" DLC is a continuous revenue stream for developers/publishers which funds new games/updates. When you have trouble finding buyers at $30 NEW, you need to get extra from "fans".

@Placebo: SFII is an unfair example, as most of the updates were brought in to add features (such as mirror matches) & combat "Rainbow" editions. Plus it was the arcades, everything just moves FASTER in arcades.

Placebo

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

@Placebo: SFII is an unfair example, as most of the updates were brought in to add features (such as mirror matches) & combat "Rainbow" editions. Plus it was the arcades, everything just moves FASTER in arcades.

same theory applies
patches added to add features [new character is a feature], fix some flaws and to add value to the game to keep it 'alive' , fighting the competitors.

im not pro dlc, but from a business model it makes sense.

Aurongroove

hmm.

I think DLC, like anything can be used to good or bad effect. It's painfully obvious when marketers are trying to sell you something for more then it's worth, or advertising a "super ad on" which should be standard.

in the case of DLC for games I see two ways of using it honestly and to good effect:

downloading crap like screen savers with the games theme, and media such as original art drawings or music tracks as stand along play tracks for your mp3 player.
Not everybody wants these so selling them with the title is superfluous, let the game music fans download the tracks as they see fit, and let the would be concept artists enjoy the drawings.

I can also invision something similar to say tekken 5, where lili and Dragunov genuinly weren't "concieved" by tekken 5's release, and may have been a spare effort of the games designers while porting, a download which turned tekken 5 into "tekken 5 + lili and Dragunov" makes complete sense

Basically a way of dispensing material that was genuinly "added on" after full release, is fine, and actually quite a cool idea.

what would be appalling is finding downloadable material which effects the game fundamentally in this way (characters, game modes, equipment) Downloadable while the game is still new anyways, this would completely whiff of just wanting more money for the same product and purposefully withdrawing material from the disc for separate download.

the full game should be on the damn disc at the time of release.

J0hnick

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

BBCS Makoto is DLC because she wasn't in the arcade release AFAIK.

Neither was Mu-12 ?

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Don't forget that "fluff" DLC is a continuous revenue stream for developers/publishers which funds new games/updates.

I agree, thats why I have no problem with the DLC alt costumes for SF4/SSF4, they dont effect the core game

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

When you have trouble finding buyers at $30 NEW, you need to get extra from "fans".

Their hardcore "fans" are the people who post on Dustloop and would buy anything with Ark Sys's name on it, they don't need to worry about those, their the ones who are gonna buy all the "fluff" DLC to so go Ark Sys.

For the people who aren't quite as hardcore about BlazBlue as other games, their not doing themselves any favors buy releasing the game the way it is. Personally, If they released the story and Legion modes as DLC and gave the new characters for free id buy it in a flash, but thats just me.

Ken B

Characters could be downloaded as a patch, but only unlocked if paid for....
ie: Everyone would be able to fight against the DLC characters, but only people who've paid for them could use them.


In SFIV for instance, not everyone unlocked Gouken and Seth(including my mates and brother), but you could still fight against them.

Sagat06

Ken B wrote: »

Everyone would be a able to fight against the DLC characters, but only people who've paid for them could use them.

Thats some straight up Capcom thinking right there!

J0hnick

Ken B wrote: »

Characters could be downloaded as a patch, but only unlocked if paid for....

They're already doing that, Namco did that with the Soul Calibur 4, any 360 owners who didn't buy Vader or PS3 owners who didn't buy Yoda could still fight them online but they couldn't play as them.

Same goes for the alt costumes in SF4/SSF4, you dont need to buy them to fight people who have, but at least you can still learn the Fei Long matchup just not with a green hornet costume.

Owwmykneecap

Once upon a time costumes were unlockable rewards.
Once upon a time cheat codes unlocked game content.

Nowadays people pay money.

Progress eh.

Orim

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Once upon a time costumes were unlockable rewards.
Once upon a time cheat codes unlocked game content.

Nowadays people pay money.

Progress eh.

Once upon a time a record breaking game could be made by a dozen people with a few thousand dollars.

Now it requires hundreds of people with a few million dollars.

They have to make their money.

EDIT : Not by withholding core game content. That should be in there.

Owwmykneecap

In many ways that's more true of the previous generation, digital distribution has finally opened up the use of back catalogues, while allowing well crafted indie games a space which they were increasingly being denied in the shop front


The games that do micro transactions seem to mainly be the large games anyway, street fighter IV didn't need to sell costumes to be profitable, and EA don't need to charge for the time is money unlock on the Skate series for it to remain in the black.

Ken B

I for one, would be happy to pay for new characters, as long as they were decent, thoughtful additions and not just head-swaps or 'dark' versions. With the amount of time I spend playing SF I'm sure I'd get decent value from any new additions.

I can see how paid-for DLC would annoy some.....but the pros far outweigh he cons.


If I was offered SF V tomorrow for €1000 I'd probably go for it!!!!


But then again, I'm mad.

chueytoo

I'm gonna buy it. Also do people not understand how hard it is to do 2d animation compare to 3d animation. So i can understand how 3 characters will have to be downloadable since they won't the other 2 won't be done anytime soon.

it is weird that makoto was presented with the game, cause shes downloadable right away.

I say if u hate the idea of the dlc character just don't buy it. I rather use my money on a new char, which give new challenges, instead of a costume, which is just purly for looks.

Azza

I'd be happy to pay for DLC....that removes certain characters!.......from other peoples consoles!

Orim

How much would pay for DLC cape?

Azza

Well lets just say the recession would be here to stay for a lot longer!

Ken B

Orim wrote: »

How much would pay for DLC cape?

I think Vega's cost me about a fiver....

Doctor DooM

Ken B wrote: »

I think Vega's cost me about a fiver....

Pretty sure Azza would pay a considerably larger sum