Gig Photography from the other side.

Sebzy

For years I've blagged my way into various music gigs big and small but this week I've found myself on the other side of the barrier as the promoter.

We had strict contractual instructions this was a non SLR (except press) event and to enforce the no flash ban too.

I was called up to the main door on several occasions to verify id of photographers wanting free entrance. The rules were press only and that means NUJ or publication ID. Just about everyone that came up had full kit and a story to tell but no ID. In the end only 3 photographers got in but I felt bad having to turn away the rest.

We as photographers should be aware of the reasons behind these strict rules.

- Photographers not acting in a professional manner.
- Causing obstructions.
- High power flashes blinding performers.
- Being click happy

and acting like paparazzi

When you carry an SLR your considered a photographer by the artist/crew and not just a fan with a point and shoot or camera phone.

PS : OH BTW Sorry Barry.

Fajitas!

- Photographers not acting in a professional manner.
- Causing obstructions.
- High power flashes blinding performers.
- Being click happy

+1

While I agree that a lot of professionals' manners are not up to scratch, was it not a bit over the top to restrict access to photographers that are either staffers or in the NUJ?

PCPhoto

Sebzy wrote: »

For years I've blagged my way into various music gigs big and small but this week I've found myself on the other side of the barrier as the promoter.

We had strict contractual instructions this was a non SLR (except press) event and to enforce the no flash ban too.

I was called up to the main door on several occasions to verify id of photographers wanting free entrance. The rules were press only and that means NUJ or publication ID. Just about everyone that came up had full kit and a story to tell but no ID. In the end only 3 photographers got in but I felt bad having to turn away the rest.

We as photographers should be aware of the reasons behind these strict rules.

- Photographers not acting in a professional manner.
- Causing obstructions.
- High power flashes blinding performers.
- Being click happy

and acting like paparazzi

When you carry an SLR your considered a photographer by the artist/crew and not just a fan with a point and shoot or camera phone.

PS : OH BTW Sorry Barry.

I'm a full-time working freelance press photographer and don't have either NUJ card (not worth the couple of hundred a year - they do nothing for you) or a publication ID ???

something to take into consideration next time (BTW - I wasn't at the gig - don't even know who you were promoting).... As someone who has been on the other side you should be able to make an executive decision on who is genuine and who is blagging their way in....anyway - normal rules of first 3 songs (no flash) is fair enough - anyone thats working press (newspapers) would need to send ASAP after getting images, so laptops would be ready to send after first 3 songs.

Ps. drop me a PM if ya are promoting again - I'd be interested in shooting - just for the fun of it.

Credit to you for having a strict set of rules and sticking to them - if someone had asked for you to come to the door they would have known it was you promoting it so you could have known if they were genuine or not.

Sebzy

Well your not the only Barry here

As I said "We had strict contractual instructions" this means we are not allowed break the contract. An executive decision was not on the cards.

When I get called to the door it's just because I was responsible for the local promoter and 9/10 it's not us who make the rules. contract contract contract........

PCPhoto wrote: »

I'm a full-time working freelance press photographer and don't have either NUJ card (not worth the couple of hundred a year - they do nothing for you) or a publication ID ???

something to take into consideration next time (BTW - I wasn't at the gig - don't even know who you were promoting).... As someone who has been on the other side you should be able to make an executive decision on who is genuine and who is blagging their way in....anyway - normal rules of first 3 songs (no flash) is fair enough - anyone thats working press (newspapers) would need to send ASAP after getting images, so laptops would be ready to send after first 3 songs.

Ps. drop me a PM if ya are promoting again - I'd be interested in shooting - just for the fun of it.

Credit to you for having a strict set of rules and sticking to them - if someone had asked for you to come to the door they would have known it was you promoting it so you could have known if they were genuine or not.

PCPhoto

Sebzy wrote: »

Well your not the only Barry here

As I said "We had strict contractual instructions" this means we are not allowed break the contract. An executive decision was not on the cards.

When I get called to the door it's just because I was responsible for the local promoter and 9/10 it's not us who make the rules. contract contract contract........

I'm not Barry !!!

WHEN I cover a gig I normally am asked by one of the national newspapers to cover it - I do not have publication ID as I'm a freelancer and not staff.

Surely common sense would have prevailed if someone contacted the promoter several days beforehand and was photographing for "X" publication - if the promoter contacted "X" publication and verified ..... Joe Soap is photographing for "X" publication then .... surely if Joe Soap turned up with ID saying I'm Joe Soap and photographing for "X" Publication ...then that would be enough.

if someone else turned up and said I'm Joe Soap and didnt have ID saying he was Joe Soap ...fair enough, he doesnt get entry.

Normally if someone is on the list - they are ok....if they are not on the list ...tough luck....its down to the promoter to double check BEFORE the gig that "Joe Soap" is shooting for "X" publication....so when photographers arrive...the list is set in stone...no name, no entry.

They do something similar for Croke Park - if you are not shooting for a publication or are connected you do not get access - I have limited GAA contacts and rarely shoot in Croke Park, tonight I'm off to the Aviva to photograph the Airtricity XI v Man Utd game, I've been photographing in Switzerland, Serbia, England and a couple of other countries and never had to show ID (...oo0ps have to correct myself ...had to show ID in Amsterdam for the AJAX tournament a few years ago to collect my pass)

Sebzy

PCPhoto wrote: »

Surely common sense would have prevailed if someone contacted the promoter several days beforehand and was photographing for "X" publication - if the promoter contacted "X" publication and verified ..... Joe Soap is photographing for "X" publication then .... surely if Joe Soap turned up with ID saying I'm Joe Soap and photographing for "X" Publication ...then that would be enough.

I never said anything about lists or who had actually got access via contacting us before hand. I was just talking about people turning up on the day out of the blue with the line "I have a camera let me in for free" that's all.

Quite a few people did just appear at the door wanting access with no prior contact or id.

Oh for anyone who did contact us before hand we had to get approval from the head office of the Artist in NY so still not our decision. If someone walks up to the door out of the blue with appropriate id then we get the go-ahead from the tour manager but they understand it's not a good idea to turn away press.

Sleepy

So the lesson is to use old rangefinders and / or the likes of a G10 for gigs in future?

Thanks for the heads up

Sebzy

Sleepy wrote: »

So the lesson is to use old rangefinders and / or the likes of a G10 for gigs in future?

Thanks for the heads up

Bang ON

Well maybe the G11

thebaz

many in the industry will be glad to know that I'm giving up music photography next month - from my experience in a money obsessed industry the photographer is the lowest common denominator - expected to work for free or 50 euros a night - in the beginning i enjoyed the excitement and buzz, now it has become a chore, where I no longer pussy foot around , pr and management companies - pay me well and I'll accept it - i think some people actually believe music photographers get paid well, maybe if you sell your soul and become a paparazzi, looking for bad shots of Amy Whitefouse or Pete Doherty - but I'd
never sell my soul - its all i've got - i'd rather die

pearljamfan

Sebzy wrote: »

Bang ON

Well maybe the G11

anyone got one of these?? is it decent??

Thecageyone

It's so true that once you're seen with an SLR/DSLR you're looked upon as a pro and you get less respect than you would with a compact. The only advantage seems that everyone wants to pose for you, including the bands. So you get them looking in your general direction rather than the mass of flashes from the compact cams [useful fill light they provide though]

We organised our own mini-festival last Sunday, we had 20 bands playing from 3pm all the way to 1am, it was a great success and all for a good cause. I was the only person with a dslr there on the day, the fund raiser was for my own daughter, and I wanted to get good shots for the web page/facebook etc ...

I lost count the amount of times people came over to me and just started posing for shots, asking "What paper will these be in?" - I tried telling them I was only taking personal shots and some for the web site but in the end i gave up explaining and just took loads of random shots of random people I just knew I'd be deleting most of them soon as they walked away.

But I did notice the bands noticed me, and they played up for my camera over anyone elses. Nice. Pity I was only using a kit lens and a not-so-good-for-indoors zoom, but they didn't seem to notice or cae - Big camera = attention, wanted or not.

I think I'd enjoy doing gig photography, but I'd not take disrespect from anyone. If I was hired to do the job I'd make sure I had prime position and the band should remain oblivious to me. I'd hate to get into that crap about looking to be paid, and getting very little for your trouble. If it's not fun, don't do it.

ThOnda

Rules are rules. And if you by accident create a situation that the keyboard player from the main act at a music festival gets thrown out...

What a weekend it was

PCPhoto

Sebzy wrote: »

I never said anything about lists or who had actually got access via contacting us before hand. I was just talking about people turning up on the day out of the blue with the line "I have a camera let me in for free" that's all.

Quite a few people did just appear at the door wanting access with no prior contact or id.

Oh for anyone who did contact us before hand we had to get approval from the head office of the Artist in NY so still not our decision. If someone walks up to the door out of the blue with appropriate id then we get the go-ahead from the tour manager but they understand it's not a good idea to turn away press.

my apologies - I misunderstood.

If it was just people turning up with DSLRs and expecting to get in - NUJ/Newspaper ID Card or not .... no entry - if yer not on the list - no entry.

the list is there for a reason - those that are covering the gig will organise their name on the list in advance....I dont think I've ever blagged into a gig - then again I've only covered the big venues (work) and have limited interest in music.

thebaz

PCPhoto wrote: »

my apologies - I misunderstood.

If it was just people turning up with DSLRs and expecting to get in - NUJ/Newspaper ID Card or not .... no entry - if yer not on the list - no entry.
to cover
the list is there for a reason -

i agree, there has to be restrictions , i was at a gig in london , where there was more photographers than audience (nearly) - first 2 or 3 songs/ no flash is fine too - but sometimes the door can hand out unnecessary hassle - when many times the musicians / paper / pr company have asked me to cover event - its just the lack of respect towards photographers i dislike - maybe the paparazzi have given us all a bad name - 2 years ago i got a shot that would have been worth a lot of money but never released it, as management asked me not too / i have donated many images to artists - just a little respect back is all i wanted - and when you get to meet them , most artists are sound themselves

blastman

pearljamfan wrote: »

anyone got one of these?? is it decent??

I have the S90, which uses the same sensor and it's a great camera if you aren't TOO far back (only 4x zoom). Even then, I got some decent shots from the sound desk at the back of the O2 last week.

Effects

Who were the band?

Sebzy

Peter Murphy.

Jim

If you're contractually obliged then fair enough, you know the rules you have to follow to get the band to play. But surely all the reasons you stated above as to why only "official" photographers should be let in are easily enforced without having to deny people access. If anyone starts using flash, interfering with the band etc then just throw them out. Guilty before they even get into the venue?

I don't take pics at gigs for money, I do it for the pleasure in the art and have never tried to make money off it (unless there in a professional / official capacity)

Had an experience at the weekend. I was at a "punk" music fest in Blackpool and on the third day they decided not to let any DSLR's in without a pass. I was incredibly pissed off at this as one of the reasons I went was to take photos. All other years they've never had this rule. No artists allowed unless we can make money off you. Punk rock indeed.

AnimalRights

thebaz wrote: »

many in the industry will be glad to know that I'm giving up music photography next month - from my experience in a money obsessed industry the photographer is the lowest common denominator - expected to work for free or 50 euros a night - in the beginning i enjoyed the excitement and buzz, now it has become a chore, where I no longer pussy foot around , pr and management companies - pay me well and I'll accept it - i think some people actually believe music photographers get paid well, maybe if you sell your soul and become a paparazzi, looking for bad shots of Amy Whitefouse or Pete Doherty - but I'd
never sell my soul - its all i've got - i'd rather die

I am only back from my fest and the bouncers were cnts this year towards the official photographers, I won't be bothering next year, as a Punk fest went it was less DIY which Punk is meant to be all about! So basically what Barry described is pretty true.

Oh btw I think this thread is pretty much up its own arse....sorry Sebzy.

thebaz

I also was at Blackpool and it just confirms the above - the crowd and the bands themselves were spot on - but the organizers - it was like getting into fort knox - my conclusion is that the crack and atmosphere was to be had outside (better bars and fresher air) - in fact next year if they held an alternative free festival on the beach it might be more fun - and in the true spirit

AnimalRights

The last day I didn't go into the venue at all and gave my pass to Jim.
I er just drank in Pubs all day and tbh was less hassle and great craic.

storm2811

Sorry but what does being "click happy" mean?Just taking photos near constantly?
I've never actually taken proper photos at gigs,figured it would be too hard because I usually just go to gigs to have fun and dance around etc.
Taken a few photos of the bands I've seen though but just for sentimental reasons.

Jim

AnimalRights wrote: »

The last day I didn't go into the venue at all and gave my pass to Jim.
I er just drank in Pubs all day and tbh was less hassle and great craic.

You were also too drunk to be bothered photographing! (thanks for the pass btw )

Sebzy

Anyone any ideas on how to improve the situation ?

Maybe over time the people who make the "no photography" decisions will realise they have very little control over who or how an image is captured at events and see the photographers as a tool that is positive in nature.

The punter in the audience with the G11 wins for now.

I have one bit of advice for everyone who has come up against these policy's and that is to find the source and send a letter of complaint.

thebaz

Sebzy wrote: »

Anyone any ideas on how to improve the situation ?
.

it does need to be restricted , but currently it is just the staffers at the nationals or people who will take photographs for journals for free who are granted access - people with a passion and who think out of the box creativly arnt rewarded - many artists themselves actually want creative photographers , but the pr companies seam to prefer bland photography

mehfesto

thebaz wrote: »

it does need to be restricted , but currently it is just the staffers at the nationals or people who will take photographs for journals for free who are granted access - people with a passion and who think out of the box creativly arnt rewarded - many artists themselves actually want creative photographers , but the pr companies seam to prefer bland photography

I dunno about that, Baz.

I think it's restricted to people who need to be there - based on numbers. I mean the Academy is a nightmare to shoot if there's more than two photographers in the 'pit. It's usually limited to a maximum of four there as far as I've seen - all of them are there for a publisher/site. (Hotpress, State.ie, goldenplec, AU etc., etc.)

If you start letting everyone in because they're 'artistic' or 'creative', it'd be chaos - It has to be limited and the band just ensure that those are there are in the best position to publicize the event.

It's also making the assumption that the photographers chosen are not somehow creative. This is surely ridiculous. I mean two examples of Irish photographers i've worked with, Ramsey and Loreana, highlight that those 'in the industry' are obviously the best choice photographers to fill these slots.

I don't know how you reckon PR companies want 'bland photos', though.

thebaz

mehfesto wrote: »

I dunno about that, Baz.

I think it's restricted to people who need to be there - based on numbers. I mean the Academy is a nightmare to shoot if there's more than two photographers in the 'pit.

It's also making the assumption that the photographers chosen are not somehow creative. This is surely ridiculous.

I don't know how you reckon PR companies want 'bland photos', though.

I agree that it should be restricted - 100 % - but I'm sick of the number of times where access has been agreed and then I'm not given access or I get the security hardline aggressive attitude - I refuse to work for free , when everyone else in the industry is mainly there to make money - I make piss all from it, but if an image is worth nothing when tickets are up to 70 euros a pop , i give up - for all the hassle involved shooting from the pit has lost its appeal to me anyway

Jim

Sebzy wrote: »

Anyone any ideas on how to improve the situation ?

Maybe over time the people who make the "no photography" decisions will realise they have very little control over who or how an image is captured at events and see the photographers as a tool that is positive in nature.

The punter in the audience with the G11 wins for now.

I have one bit of advice for everyone who has come up against these policy's and that is to find the source and send a letter of complaint.

It's very difficult because as was said above the music biz is all about the $$. If it's an MCD gig and I'm not allowed bring my cam in, I will accept that, because it's MCD. But the punk fest I expected better from them.

I think the only real way is to appeal to the bands themselves and hopefully get some who have a good appreciation for the art and have decent control over their gig conditions. Unfortunately most of them are "superstars".

AnimalRights

Jim wrote: »

It's very difficult because as was said above the music biz is all about the $$. If it's an MCD gig and I'm not allowed bring my cam in, I will accept that, because it's MCD. But the punk fest I expected better from them.

I think the only real way is to appeal to the bands themselves and hopefully get some who have a good appreciation for the art and have decent control over their gig conditions. Unfortunately most of them are "superstars".

Carlsberg don't do gig discussion threads but if they did it'd be this one.

thefly

Sebzy wrote: »

For years I've blagged my way into various music gigs big and small but this week I've found myself on the other side of the barrier as the promoter.

We had strict contractual instructions this was a non SLR (except press) event and to enforce the no flash ban too.

I was called up to the main door on several occasions to verify id of photographers wanting free entrance. The rules were press only and that means NUJ or publication ID. Just about everyone that came up had full kit and a story to tell but no ID. In the end only 3 photographers got in but I felt bad having to turn away the rest.

We as photographers should be aware of the reasons behind these strict rules.

- Photographers not acting in a professional manner.
- Causing obstructions.
- High power flashes blinding performers.
- Being click happy

and acting like paparazzi

When you carry an SLR your considered a photographer by the artist/crew and not just a fan with a point and shoot or camera phone.

PS : OH BTW Sorry Barry.

So let me get this straight. You were letting people in for free who had a NUJ card :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


Also you missed the most important point as to why only pro's get in. It's in order to protect the artists image rights

AnimalRights

It's tall photographers who are to blame!*

Stiff Little Fingers






*Sebzy is a tall terrorist photographer too!

melekalikimaka

free in with NUJ card!!! even student ones????

Borderfox

Gig photography sounds far better than the reality, I dont think per say that its just gigs that are being policed harshly. Some of the guys (security/Arena/stands) in the RDS really needed a slap in the head, even with a press pass they were pi**ing and moaning about allowing access.

smelltheglove

I've never been a fan of doormen to be honest, they usually seem to have an attitude problem. When I went to photograph the Slash gig I was covering the support band first, it was them who had my name on the guest list and arranged the passes for me so I waited outside for the guestlist to be brought to the box office along with a few pals. The girl in charge of the lists came to speak to me, told me she had no stickers left but I was ok to go in anyway, she has told the staff and there wont be any problem at all so off I go to go in with the lady going in about 2 mns before me. The door staff pushed me back, 'she has a camera' one says, the other says 'i dont care what excuse you have youre not getting in with that' so I tried to explain, listen so and so just spoke to you and let you know I was ok, all the while hoping to get in on time to cover my band.

In the end I had to phone one of the band members to find the girl who came out to me and walked me in, by the time I got in I missed the first song, as I was going in I said to the lads, listen Im just here to do a job like yourselves you know. The thing is, they dont care, in their little heads they are above all else.

By the end of the evening the girl in charge came to me and asked was I photographing Slash alone or did I bring anyone else in with me, of course I said no and she went on to say that there were only 6 photogs allowed, me being one of them and the guys had let in 9, she went off in a fluster saying her head was on the line. So the guys either couldnt been arsed doing their job inside, decided to let pals in or maybe even took a backhander.

I guess my point is, while I understand there have to be rules so as there is no overcrowding or unprofessionalism and those rules should be stuck to, there should be a degree of respect also rather than some bloke souped up on steroids giving you a hard ass attitude!

magicbastarder

this thread does not live up to what i expected from the title. i expected shots of the audience from the stage.