Irish slating and catholic slating etc...

Adam

pickarooney wrote: »

On the face of it, yes, that would appear to be racism. You may want to throw the old 'I'm one so I can say what I like' card out, but I could just as easily say "I'm black and I think **** are stupid, lazy *****".

ok, that's so arse backwards i can hardly think straight...but i don't like being called a racist so, eh...the romas are smelly fukkers! :rolleyes:

pickarooney

Adam wrote: »

ok, that's so arse backwards i can hardly think straight...but i don't like being called a racist so, eh...the romas are smelly fukkers! :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how you figure out that making generalisations about two ethnic groups makes you not a racist. I think I know what you've understood from my earlier post but no, let me reiterate: I'm talking about your suggestion that you/we/boards should 'allow' other posters to do one thing and not another.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seemed to be saying earlier that boards should 'allow' members to make sweeping, negative generalisations about the Irish but disallow them from doing the same thing about other (selected) groups. This I classed as a form of racism.

Cards on the table, I couldn't give a rat's ass what anyobody says about anyone, individual, group, nation, race or religion. As far as I'm concerned it reflects only on the person making the comment. I do understand the point of view that if 'I am a member of X I can say that all X are <insert insulting stereotype here>' but I don't subscribe to it. I don't see why I should be given free reign to denigrate an entire group just because I happen to share some of the characteristics of that group and not to do the same for another group with which I share fewer traits.

I don't know if you're reading this thread with anything approaching an open mind or if you're just waiting for your turn to post, but if you do actually try and see things from other points of view and understand what someone is saying then, even if you strongly disagree it makes for a much more constructive discussion.

That sounds really condescending, I know, but I felt I had to say it.

Adam

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm not sure how you figure out that making generalisations about two ethnic groups makes you not a racist. I think I know what you've understood from my earlier post but no, let me reiterate: I'm talking about your suggestion that you/we/boards should 'allow' other posters to do one thing and not another.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seemed to be saying earlier that boards should 'allow' members to make sweeping, negative generalisations about the Irish but disallow them from doing the same thing about other (selected) groups. This I classed as a form of racism.

Cards on the table, I couldn't give a rat's ass what anyobody says about anyone, individual, group, nation, race or religion. As far as I'm concerned it reflects only on the person making the comment. I do understand the point of view that if 'I am a member of X I can say that all X are <insert insulting stereotype here>' but I don't subscribe to it. I don't see why I should be given free reign to denigrate an entire group just because I happen to share some of the characteristics of that group and not to do the same for another group with which I share fewer traits.

I don't know if you're reading this thread with anything approaching an open mind or if you're just waiting for your turn to post, but if you do actually try and see things from other points of view and understand what someone is saying then, even if you strongly disagree it makes for a much more constructive discussion.

That sounds really condescending, I know, but I felt I had to say it.

i think the major difference in our arguments is that you're taking a purely theoretical stand point which is essentially correct in terms of what is and is not racist, where as i'm looking at things from a more practical point of view in terms of what goes on in After Hours, and how necessary it is to ban our oh-so-Irish attitude of "everything's fucked".

i don't think you're entirely wrong, but i also don't think it's necessary to ban us from taking the piss out of ourselves. if anyway is silly enough to take these things personally they should probably take a step back and lighten up.

edit: i should probably clarify the fact that i don't really have a problem with people discussing other ethnicities, be it in a negative light or otherwise. in fact i share the exact same perspective as yourself. i just think that if we say 'ok it's a free for all, go nuts on <insert ethnic group here> lads!' then boards will end up with a bad reputation, but i don't even know how it would work out if we tried to ban discussion of the irish. if it's not broke, don't fix it.

pickarooney

Adam wrote: »

i think the major difference in our arguments is that you're taking a purely theoretical stand point which is essentially correct in terms of what is and is not racist, where as i'm looking at things from a more practical point of view in terms of what goes on in After Hours, and how necessary it is to ban our oh-so-Irish attitude of "everything's fucked".

i don't think you're entirely wrong, but i also don't think it's necessary to ban us from taking the piss out of ourselves. if anyway is silly enough to take these things personally they should probably take a step back and lighten up.

I think that sums it up pretty well I would agree that people in general should chill out more, (I mean, that whole middle-east thing could be sorted in 5 minutes if they'd just calm down) but seeing as that's impossible I think it only fair to acknowledge that a lack of consistency can, and does, annoy people.

panda100

CaseyAnn......I find the majority of the threads on AH really insulting to me and Irish women,so I barely ever go in there.
You do not have to partake or read the threads on AH,maybe try some other forums that would be more suited to you like the Christian forum?

Terry

caseyann wrote: »

Speak for yourself,nice to try throw insults to someone who couldnt give a toss.I am sure more education than you

Overheal

pickarooney wrote: »

So what's the official line?
Irish - fair game, but there must be equal parts misogyny and outrage at same
British - must be split 30:20:50 between hategrow-up-and-get-over-it
American - mostly OK, must involve Overheal having a hissy fit though
Australians - fine if Dr. B is on duty, otherwise also fine
Chinese - sure, everyone knows it's not real racism, just a bit of a laugh
French - allowed, encouraged, expected
Russian - must be done in 'ironic' meme form
Nigerian - maximum of 6% negativity, just enough concentrate for the indignance to dilute
Polish - grand because they work hard and have hot burds, hilarious swan mention obligatory and 'how do you know they were Polish?'
Romanian - even if you mean Romanian, you don't actually mean Romanian, you mean Roma
Roma - allowed on the proviso that it be 90% vitriol and be Godwinned by post 3

caseyann

panda100 wrote: »

CaseyAnn......I find the majority of the threads on AH really insulting to me and Irish women,so I barely ever go in there.
You do not have to partake or read the threads on AH,maybe try some other forums that would be more suited to you like the Christian forum?

lol hot blooded Irish in me couldn't avoid it.Dont they just insult you as Christians and ask you the same questions over and over again,trying to belittle Christian faith?
At least some people can see the disgrace allowed.
I noticed they can insult peoples intelligence on that forum also(but get away with it if they are liked but dont if they arent bending over.You are right i should avoid it.Even though banned already lol thanks panda you are a sweet person

Someone posted,who are you to say other nationalities cant criticize Irish.Who are you to say they can and then say Irish cant criticize them.I see double standards.

El Weirdo

Is it time for cat pictures yet?

amdublin

El Weirdo wrote: »

Is it time for cat pictures yet?

oooh! oooh! Yes pliz!!!!!!!!!!!!

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

lol hot blooded Irish in me couldn't avoid it.Dont they just insult you as Christians and ask you the same questions over and over again,trying to belittle Christian faith?
At least some people can see the disgrace allowed.
I noticed they can insult peoples intelligence on that forum also(but get away with it if they are liked but dont if they arent bending over.You are right i should avoid it.Even though banned already lol thanks panda you are a sweet person

Someone posted,who are you to say other nationalities cant criticize Irish.Who are you to say they can and then say Irish cant criticize them.I see double standards.

Still not taking on anything posters have said.

It's a shame. A couple of us at least, gave you the benefit of the doubt.

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

Still not taking on anything posters have said.

It's a shame. A couple of us at least, gave you the benefit of the doubt.

K-9,i always take on board what people say,doesnt mean i will change my mind or agree with them.If you are expecting me to listen to the likes of that who called me racist and insulted me,i am sorry i respect myself to much for that,and as far as i am concerned they have nothing to say i want to hear.You i respect and some others,but not the others who have frequented this thread.Another sign of what is on AH.
You however i always listen to and just agree to disagree,as i will never see it right that Irish and religion be slated in the manner it is on these boards.

Overheal

caseyann wrote: »

Someone posted,who are you to say other nationalities cant criticize Irish.Who are you to say they can and then say Irish cant criticize them.I see double standards.

In all fairness, have you ever seen me be racist toward the Irish? I'd like examples.

Do I criticize the Irish now: hell yes I criticize the Irish. And the Irish Criticize the Americans and its a big Criticism love-in. So I don't know where a double standard is present.

caseyann

Overheal wrote: »

In all fairness, have you ever seen me be racist toward the Irish? I'd like examples.

Overheal i am not racist to anyone either.I have never seen you be racist to Irish no.I never knew you werent Irish though either.

K-9

caseyann wrote: »

You however i always listen to and just agree to disagree,as i will never see it right that Irish and religion be slated in the manner it is on these boards.

That isn't what I have being saying though. Some of the stuff is way OTT about the Catholic Church and priests in particular. I've seen a few things definitely, but I don't tend to read those threads any more. It's a bit like the homsexuality, sex before marriage, transexual threads at the minute. Same basic stuff over and over, different threads.

Then again, go on Muslim threads on AH and some of the stuff posted is despicable too, so it isn't just a Catholic thing.

It goes back to pickarooneys point, we probably should ban threads about the English, Nigerians, French.................................. if we want to be consistent. Would be rather boring and pc though!

Look, you will not get in a taxi driven by a black man. A Black man hearing that mightn't take too kindly to that generalisation. You don't take too kindly to criticism of Irish people etc. What's the difference?

Expecting people to have higher standards than you do, is what I see.

looksee

Lordy, K9, I thought the whole thing was about to gently fade out, and you fan it back into life Its a lost cause. Leave it go.

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

That isn't what I have being saying though. Some of the stuff is way OTT about the Catholic Church and priests in particular. I've seen a few things definitely, but I don't tend to read those threads any more. It's a bit like the homsexuality, sex before marriage, transexual threads at the minute. Same basic stuff over and over, different threads.

Then again, go on Muslim threads on AH and some of the stuff posted is despicable too, so it isn't just a Catholic thing.

It goes back to pickarooneys point, we probably should ban threads about the English, Nigerians, French.................................. if we want to be consistent. Would be rather boring and pc though!

Look, you will not get in a taxi driven by a black man. A Black man hearing that mightn't take too kindly to that generalisation. You don't take too kindly to criticism of Irish people etc. What's the difference?

Expecting people to have higher standards than you do, is what I see.

Yeah i get what you mean,and i would apologize to them if they took offense to what i said.But wont change how i feel,i am just not willing to take that chance of been that uncomfortable again.Do you get me? Thats my right.
I dont bad mouth them to the next person to make trouble for them.I just choose out of my bad experiences to not get in a taxi with them alone.I have every right.
If a black person came on and said that about an Irish person taxi driver after few instances like i had,i would say i am sorry to hear that and i wouldnt blame them if they didnt want to get in taxi with Irish man again.

I will never agree with it,joking serious criticism i have no problem with,down right slating and dirtying Irish name i do have a problem with,insulting Muslims catholics jews
i have a problem with,insulting anyone i do have a problem with.But i wasn't insulting i was joking and would have made that clear if i had of been given the chance but i wasn't.

K-9

But if somebody had a bad experience of Irish people and posts Irish are people are lazy, drunken, fighting yobs, I don't go near them, that annoys you?

But it's their right, same as your right about black taxi drivers?

Ching, ching yet?

pickarooney

K-9 wrote: »

But if somebody had a bad experience of Irish people and posts Irish are people are lazy, drunken, fighting yobs, I don't go near them, that annoys you?

But it's their right, same as your right about black taxi drivers?

Ching, ching yet?

I didn't read that taxi thread but based on the last couple of threads that comparison seems a little unfair.

"I had a few bad experiences with Irish people and avoid them now" - if the point stands up on its own, why add in the generalisation?

Adam

if we want to talk about racism, the OP's attitude toward black people is racist, simple as. no amount of sweet talking through it from her is going to change that.

twinQuins

caseyann wrote: »

Yeah i get what you mean,and i would apologize to them if they took offense to what i said.But wont change how i feel,i am just not willing to take that chance of been that uncomfortable again.Do you get me? Thats my right.
I dont bad mouth them to the next person to make trouble for them.I just choose out of my bad experiences to not get in a taxi with them alone.I have every right.
If a black person came on and said that about an Irish person taxi driver after few instances like i had,i would say i am sorry to hear that and i wouldnt blame them if they didnt want to get in taxi with Irish man again.

I will never agree with it,joking serious criticism i have no problem with,down right slating and dirtying Irish name i do have a problem with,insulting Muslims catholics jews
i have a problem with,insulting anyone i do have a problem with.But i wasn't insulting i was joking and would have made that clear if i had of been given the chance but i wasn't.

K-9

pickarooney wrote: »

"I had a few bad experiences with Irish people and avoid them now" - if the point stands up on its own, why add in the generalisation?

It seems that is what she is complaining about, or similar?

pickarooney

I'm completely lost at this stage.

Tom Dunne

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm completely lost at this stage.

I think that just about sums up the way a lot of people are feeling.

Plus, I am all out of popcorn.

I think it's best if I close this now. Any issues, PM me.