CYCLE PATH. A good news story

daroadlescycled

Hi All,
I've been away from this forum for some time.
Can I take you back to March 09 I was looking for ideas for a CyclePath to be included on the N21 Castleisland Bypass.

I was turned down for all the usual nonsensical reasons.

After several meetings/letter writing /phone calls/surveys/research etc, I can reveal now as I write a CyclePath is being constructed on the said Bypass. This is a first for the NRA to include a Cyclepath on a class 2 dual carrigeway. The precedent has been set, now hoping more will follow.

The CyclePath is two-way on 1 side of the carrigeway, 1.76m wide, inside the road barrier to be finished off in red macadam.

I think this is a good victory for Cyclists

tomasrojo

I really admire your tenacity.

But I have to say that 1.76m is too narrow for a single lane, let alone a two-way. Also two-way off-road lanes generally have the worst records for serious collisions at junctions. Perhaps this road has very few junctions though?

CheGuedara

Well done and fair play for staying with it! It will certainly be interesting to see what it works like in real life.

Been waiting to see what the new road is going to be like for a while [waiting to see if it turns Tralee-Casleisland-Abbeyfeale and back into the CGCC winter training run of choice] - lest we forget cyclists can use that nice new road also!

Can def. see the cycle lane being used in the direction of traffic flow (assuming it doesnt dump cyclists somewhere reckless when it reaches junctions), the second, contraflow lane will be interesting to see in operation for sure.

Good to see cyclists being cosidered at some level in road planning, even if it took your dedicated lobbying to push the issue, well done again

blorg

CheGuedara wrote: »

lest we forget cyclists can use that nice new road also!

Not if there is a cycle track beside it you can't :pac:

CheGuedara

blorg wrote: »

Not if there is a cycle track beside it you can't

Any bet my bike will roll any different on the road to a cycle path?

monument

daroadlescycled wrote: »

Hi All,
I've been away from this forum for some time.
Can I take you back to March 09 I was looking for ideas for a CyclePath to be included on the N21 Castleisland Bypass.

I was turned down for all the usual nonsensical reasons.

After several meetings/letter writing /phone calls/surveys/research etc, I can reveal now as I write a CyclePath is being constructed on the said Bypass. This is a first for the NRA to include a Cyclepath on a class 2 dual carrigeway. The precedent has been set, now hoping more will follow.

The CyclePath is two-way on 1 side of the carrigeway, 1.76m wide, inside the road barrier to be finished off in red macadam.

I think this is a good victory for Cyclists

I don't know about class 2, but there are cycle paths along the side of dual carriageways in Dublin, and these represent some of the worst examples of cycle paths.

At least some of these very poor examples are on roads which the NRA are responsible for and the design of which was there responsibly.

kumate_champ07

monument wrote: »

I don't know about class 2, but there are cycle paths along the side of dual carriageways in Dublin, and these represent some of the worst examples of cycle paths.

At least some of these very poor examples are on roads which the NRA are responsible for and the design of which was there responsibly.

I was on some really bad cycle paths going to Cornellscourt, it was practically 'off road' for a lot of it. loads of holes,bumps,gaps and debris

I dont think I'd like to use those cycle lanes with expensive wheels

rebel.ranter

Well doneon persevering with your cause. That will turn out to be a great walking route thus ruining it as a cutting lane with dogs on leads (& their dig crap), walkers walking three abreast & prams. Forget about making progress on it on a bike.
As mentioned by previous posters I would be surprised if it will be easy to enter/exit this as the people involved in designing/building these things must never have cycled a bike given the way most of the ones I've seen (or tried to use).

michaelm

Well done on this - always surprised at how a positive development like this invokes such negative comments. I seem to remember unbelieveable negativity towards the Dublin Bike Scheme a few years ago, before it started. It perhaps needs to be emphasised that this is a path alongside a bypass - it is nothing like Cornelscourt etc with numerous junctions also it is Castleisland where I would imagine the amount of bikes using the path will be a lot less than commuter routes in the capital city. Also as it is alongside a bypass - I imagine it will not have any sharp turns and have very good lines of sight. I have always been amazed that this type of cycle lane has not been put in place when bypasses are being constructed so hopefully this will set a precedent. another point - looking at a lot of existing bypasses there is very often a significant grass margins which surely must cost quite a lot to maintain - would a cycle lane not be cheaper in the long run? To the OP - Well done on your tenacity - it just shows what positive energy can achieve.

Diarmuid

michaelm wrote: »

Well done on this - always surprised at how a positive development like this invokes such negative comments.

I applaud the OP for trying to improve the situation for cyclists but if you've cycled on the majority of cycle paths in Ireland, you'll understand the sentiment above. The worst thing is that once there is a cycle path available, drivers expect you to use it (even if it's a POS), and legally in certain situations you're obliged to used it! So given the choice between being forced to use a crap cycle path and cycling on the road, I'll take the latter every time.

daroadlescycled

tomasrojo wrote: »

I really admire your tenacity.

But I have to say that 1.76m is too narrow for a single lane, let alone a two-way. Also two-way off-road lanes generally have the worst records for serious collisions at junctions. Perhaps this road has very few junctions though?

Cheers'

This Bypass doesen't have any junctions at all, has underpass and and overpass You enter at a roundabout and finish at a roundabout. It's a straight interrupted cycle.

vektarman

daroadlescycled wrote: »

Cheers'

This Bypass doesen't have any junctions at all, has underpass and and overpass You enter at a roundabout and finish at a roundabout. It's a straight interrupted cycle.

Do you mean uninterrrupted? Well done OP, nice to hear a good news story.

Jawgap

Well done OP - good result.

Jackie will have to watch himself!

tomasrojo

daroadlescycled wrote: »

Cheers'

This Bypass doesen't have any junctions at all, has underpass and and overpass You enter at a roundabout and finish at a roundabout. It's a straight interrupted cycle.

That's good. The only off-road two-way cycle paths that cyclists seem to like in Dublin (that I know of) both run uninterrupted for a decent distance: the Alfie Byrne Road/Clontarf one and the one on Ninth Lock Road.

daroadlescycled

vektarman wrote: »

Do you mean uninterrrupted? Well done OP, nice to hear a good news story.

Nice 0ne,;) uninterrupted is what I meant

michaelm

Diarmuid wrote: »

but if you've cycled on the majority of cycle paths in Ireland, you'll understand the sentiment above.

I fully take your point that the country is littered with pretty awful cycle lanes, this however should be different, a custom made cycle lane along a bypass and crucially not shared with other traffic and uninterrupted!. Maybe this is just what we need, an example of good practice where we can all draw the attention of our own local authorities to. While on the point I have found our own local council (North Tipp) to be very approachable and have been involved in two cycling related projects with them. I feel much more progress is made when you make an approach with an idea rather than complaining about what they are not doing

tomc

blorg wrote: »

Not if there is a cycle track beside it you can't :pac:

Speaking of this, are we still waiting on the minister to repeal this law or has that idea been scrapped?

Regards

daroadlescycled

CheGuedara wrote: »

Well done and fair play for staying with it! It will certainly be interesting to see what it works like in real life.

Been waiting to see what the new road is going to be like for a while [waiting to see if it turns Tralee-Casleisland-Abbeyfeale and back into the CGCC winter training run of choice] - lest we forget cyclists can use that nice new road also!

Can def. see the cycle lane being used in the direction of traffic flow (assuming it doesnt dump cyclists somewhere reckless when it reaches junctions), the second, contraflow lane will be interesting to see in operation for sure.

Good to see cyclists being cosidered at some level in road planning, even if it took your dedicated lobbying to push the issue, well done again

Cheers,
Yea the new Bypass will will link to Tralee at one end and Abbeyfeale at the other end. What we have now is a hard shoulder (in good condition) fom Abbeyfeale to Bypass 15k, onto the Cyclepath 5k, and then a hard shoulder to Tralee 20k (in vg condition).

For my commute to work 23k one way , it will mean cyclepath and hard shoulder for 20k all rural, which is a huge improvement. The 3k is urban.

Should be open by end of September 2010.

CheGuedara

daroadlescycled wrote: »

Cheers,
Yea the new Bypass will will link to Tralee at one end and Abbeyfeale at the other end. What we have now is a hard shoulder (in good condition) fom Abbeyfeale to Bypass 15k, onto the Cyclepath 5k, and then a hard shoulder to Tralee 20k (in vg condition).

For my commute to work 23k one way , it will mean cyclepath and hard shoulder for 20k all rural, which is a huge improvement. The 3k is urban.

Should be open by end of September 2010.

I know it well! We've been using the Tralee - Castleisland return route as a winter maintenance run on our weekday training spin, the new road could see that nicely extended even if we just push it out to get the hill extra.

If you decide to get interested in sportive/leisure cycling (if you're not already) give us a shout - anyone with 46km of a daily commute should get on grand

ED E

daroadlescycled wrote: »

The CyclePath is two-way on 1 side of the carrigeway, 1.76m wide, inside the road barrier to be finished off in red macadam.

Damn shame....

daroadlescycled

Jawgap wrote: »

Well done OP - good result.

Jackie will have to watch himself!

Ha Ha no fear.
Although he was one of many asked to push things along
Thanks,.

rebel.ranter

The negative part if my comments were most certainly not directed at the OP's efforts. I think they have done great work in making it happen.
I am just thinking about the new cycle track that opened between Carrigaline & Crosshaven here in Cork. It is a walking path on one side & a cycle path on the other. However the whole path is now constantly blocked with people walking on the cycle side, dogs crapping on the lane too. It's a pity because it was a beautiful surface.

Then I think of the new cycle track on the Model Farm road, Cork it looks nice but try cycle on it. You certainly would not bring a road bike on it, in fact it probably requires a full suspension set up to be any way comfortable. And this was the condition of the track just after being laid!

Then if you go to an area where there is a more established cycle tracks they are never repaired, cleaned or maintained.
Getting a cycle track developed is only one part of the puzzle.
Keep up the fight though!

tomasrojo

tomc wrote: »

Speaking of this, are we still waiting on the minister to repeal this law or has that idea been scrapped?

Still waiting as far as I know. It has been mentioned on boards (can't remember by whom) that the repeal is in the draft stage. The last Dublin Cycling Campaign newsletter described the repeal as "imminent", but I haven't heard any more since.

BeepBeep67

tomasrojo wrote: »

Still waiting as far as I know. It has been mentioned on boards (can't remember by whom) that the repeal is in the draft stage. The last Dublin Cycling Campaign newsletter described the repeal as "imminent", but I haven't heard any more since.

Is this the case regardless of the condidtion of the cycle track?
Has anyone been stopped for not using a cycle lane?

CheGuedara

tomc wrote: »

Speaking of this, are we still waiting on the minister to repeal this law or has that idea been scrapped?

Regards

Email sent to Darth Dempsey/Dept Transport asking for information on where it (along with the introduction of a 1.5m safe overtaking minimum floated around the same time at the suggestion of Dublin City Council) stands and time frame for introduction.

Not holding my breath for a reply though.

tomasrojo

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Is this the case regardless of the condidtion of the cycle track?
Has anyone been stopped for not using a cycle lane?

galwaycyclist was asking here a little while ago whether anyone else had heard anything about a judge throwing out an attempted prosecution of a cyclist for not using a cycle track. I don't think anyone replied to him.

I'm pretty sure no-one has ever been successfully prosecuted anyway.

As for not using the track based on its condition, I don't think there's any explicit provision for that:

(3) (a) Subject to paragraph (b), a pedal cycle must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided.


(b) Paragraph (a) shall not apply in the case of a cycle track on the right-hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 023 has been provided,


(i) where a person driving a pedal cycle intends to change direction and has indicated that intention, or


(ii) where a bus is stopped in the cycle track at a point where traffic sign RUS 031 (bus stop) is provided, or


(iii) where a vehicle is parked in the cycle track for the purpose of loading or unloading.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0274.html

However, if a track were completely blocked, such as some out in Lucan used to be (perhaps still are) to prevent travellers camping on them, I can't see how you can be expected to use them - I mean it's actually impossible. There is always some common sense in interpreting law, particuarly such a badly written one as this.

In any case, enforcement of this SI is a very, very low priority. A fitting monument to Bobby Molloy's period in office.

daroadlescycled

michaelm wrote: »

Well done on this - always surprised at how a positive development like this invokes such negative comments. I seem to remember unbelieveable negativity towards the Dublin Bike Scheme a few years ago, before it started. It perhaps needs to be emphasised that this is a path alongside a bypass - it is nothing like Cornelscourt etc with numerous junctions also it is Castleisland where I would imagine the amount of bikes using the path will be a lot less than commuter routes in the capital city. Also as it is alongside a bypass - I imagine it will not have any sharp turns and have very good lines of sight. I have always been amazed that this type of cycle lane has not been put in place when bypasses are being constructed so hopefully this will set a precedent. another point - looking at a lot of existing bypasses there is very often a significant grass margins which surely must cost quite a lot to maintain - would a cycle lane not be cheaper in the long run? To the OP - Well done on your tenacity - it just shows what positive energy can achieve.

I think you have your finger on the pulse here, and I also think the precedent is set. Hopin not to sound cocky I would urge all cyclists to act immediatley as soon as they find out there is to be new road design in there area to send a request in to have a Cyclepath included in the road design.
I found that was a big obstacle for me, they kept saying I was too late with the proposal.
And as you mentioned one of my points was a Cyclepath would reduce the amount spent on landscsping and on maintenance after.

Am I right and saying that Adare is one of the next towns to be By-passed.
I wonder is there cyclists frome that region on this forum, if so you might keep us posted on developments.

CheGuedara

CheGuedara wrote: »

Email sent to Darth Dempsey/Dept Transport asking for information on where it (along with the introduction of a 1.5m safe overtaking minimum floated around the same time at the suggestion of Dublin City Council) stands and time frame for introduction.

Not holding my breath for a reply though.

Mr Dempsey acknowledged receipt of the email today - 'a further reply will be issued as soon as possible' apparently

atomohawk

The NRA are wakening up a bit. Apparently there is now provision to be made for a 1.7mts wide cycle lane on the 2x2 section of the tralee bypass which will be 8km long.
The question arises now whether this road is overdesigned. Does it make economic sense to build a dual-carraigeway connecting up to single carraigeway roads?

monument

atomohawk wrote: »

The NRA are wakening up a bit. Apparently there is now provision to be made for a 1.7mts wide cycle lane on the 2x2 section of the tralee bypass which will be 8km long.

The NRA are being giving some remit with the national cycle network, and wakening up to cycling would indeed be in their best interest really.

atomohawk wrote: »

The question arises now whether this road is overdesigned. Does it make economic sense to build a dual-carraigeway connecting up to single carraigeway roads?

An Bord Pleanala have already rejected some roads on this bases, but it depends ring roads have a slightly better case to be dual carriage ways given the extra volumes near and around larger towns.

CheGuedara

From the Kerry Forum

Castleisland Bypass Thread

Travelling towards Abbeyfeale



Looking towards Castleisland



Won't remove club cyclists from the road but can definitely see it being used by commuters and short distance fitness cyclists