The cost of Free Education.

Nevyn

Anyone else stock piling copies already?

http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/Education-Expenses-Survey-Results-2010

Research announced today [5th August 2010] by Bank of Ireland Life, in association with online parent resource Schooldays.ie, reveals that parents are currently feeling the financial pressure when it comes to putting their children through our education system.

Nearly half of all parents cited that this school year was one of the most difficult, with over two-thirds having to seek financial assistance from their family.

Bank of Ireland Life highlights the need for parents, now more than ever, to plan ahead to make sure they can fund the costs associated with educating their children. The company estimates that the current costs associated with educating a child to third level is almost €70,000.

Feedback from the parents surveyed supports this, with 78% of parents wishing that they had started saving for their children’s education much earlier. Three-quarters of parents believe that the best time to start saving for their children’s education is from the time they are born, using the monthly child benefit of €150, if possible.

Highlights from the research include:

* 30% of parents are currently saving some or all of the child benefit (up 5% on 2009), with 41% of parents opting to do this with a regular savings investment plan
* 78% of parents say that the proposal to means test the child benefit payment would leave them in a difficult financial position.
* 83% of parents believe that the public primary school education is just as good as that offered by private schools. However, this sentiment drops to just 63% for public secondary schools.
* 42% of parents are prepared to pay for their children’s private secondary education in an effort to improve their child’s exam results, yet 67% of parents have no savings plan in place to fund these substantial education costs.
* Most parents agree that the third level education years will be the most expensive for them, yet only 39% have specifically started to save for these years and 71% can see themselves having to borrow to fund these costs rising to 88% if the Government re-introduces college fees.


With parents spending on average €696 this month alone as they purchase the back to school essentials, parents believe there are a number of ways that their costs could be reduced:

* Three-quarters of parents think that school uniforms are too expensive, with 90% advocating the idea to introduce a school crest badge which could be affixed to a standard uniform that could be bought in a supermarket.
* 33% of parents plan to buy a larger size school uniform for their children this school year.
* 9 in 10 parents will purchase generic or non-branded back to school supplies including, backpacks, pencil cases, copybooks and lunchtime snacks.
* 42% of parents will search through Irish recycling and community websites for free and second-hand schoolbooks, schoolbags and uniforms.
* 97% believe that the school book curriculum should only be changed a minimum of every five years to facilitate parents buying second-hand books, and in particular for those looking to save money by passing schoolbooks on to other siblings.
* 64% of parents believe that their children should wear their school uniform on communion and confirmation days.
* 97% believe that the secondary school transition year should be optional due to the additional expense this year brings

With many parents already feeling the financial pressure in putting their child though school, 90% of parents feel the additional strain placed on them throughout the year from the school, with 60% of parents giving their children additional money for school supplies and fundraising events at least once a month.

metrovelvet

That is so depressing.

Quality

I havent bought any books or uniforms yet...

waiting til after my holidays...

homerjay2005

metrovelvet wrote: »

That is so depressing.

why? alot of the "stats" are bulls*it.

yes, certain people cannot afford the current set up and that is tragic and not nice to be in.

But there are also a huge amount of people that are still very well off in this country. i bet some of the people in this "survey" that are complaining and looking for help, still can afford flat screen tv's, expensive cars and holidays, but then moan then when little johnny or mary needs a new book.

the means testing of child benifit will not affect those who need it most. if your child matters most to you, they will not be found wanting and lol at almost 700euro to be spent on average on every kid. Average stats can be skewed by non average parents spending non average money on their non average kid who wants the best of everything.

sending a child to school is not as expensive as people whige about ffs. 2 of my god-children will be going to school in september and from being involved in helping out with getting them ready, there aint nowhere near €1400 spent.

mariaf24

My daughters school uniform cost about 10euro in Dunnes, Navy jumper, trousers/trackie/skirt (choice) and blue t-shirt.
The school crest will then be applied to the jumper for about 3 euro.
I think its a fantastic idea and more schools should do the same, especially infant/junior classes.

The school has also introduced a book rental scheme which has hugely reduced the cost of books.

I agree however that reports such as this greatly exaggerate the cost!

we'llallhavetea_old

i definitely wouldn't be spending the colour of that, though my babs is only going into senior infants.

Chuchoter

696? Are these people buying gold plated uniforms? I'm in a private school going into fifth year, but I spent 130 on a new uniform and 250 on a whole set of books plus revise wises. If I was in a community school that is all I would be paying all year. I don't think its fair to include lunches in the cost either, you have to feed people thats nothing to do with education. I also think all secondary school uniforms should be bought from chain shops like M&S and Tesco, especially for first years, who buy the uniform, shoot up over the summer and then have to go get a new one.

I completely agree about the TY thing, that was one expensive waste of a year.

mikemac

* 97% believe that the secondary school transition year should be optional due to the additional expense this year brings

Are there schools where it is compulsory?

Chuchoter

feelingstressed wrote: »

Are there schools where it is compulsory?

My school and 2 or three others near me. A lot of schools do it as a bit of a money/fees spinner. Extra 500 euro for absolutely nothing.

Nevyn

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/parents-council-not-surprised-at-cost-of-educating-children-468099.html

05/08/2010 - 10:31:37
The National Parents' Council has said it is not surprised at the hidden cost of educating a child.

A new survey out today shows that the cost of putting a child through the system from primary school right through to college graduation is €70,000.

Primary education for one costs €13,500 over eight years and secondary school costs just over €14,000.

But the big bill kicks in at third level, with average total costs of nearly €42,000.

CEO of the National Parents' Council Aine Lynch said this is a particularly difficult time of year for parents.

Well for one 5fth class child and one going into first year the two book lists alone are about 500 and thats not all the books and not any copies and not uniforms or bags or new winter coats.

cbyrd

I hate school.. i hated it when i was in it and i hate the whole routine when my kids are in it:eek:
last year i went to m and s and bought the royal blue jumper with no crest for my eldest girl. i got 3 for €18 (cheapest free).. the proper school jumper is €34 and a couple of washes and it was like a rag.. i told her if any teacher made comment to tell them to phone me about it..
No-one passed any remarks..

My opinion is it's as expensive as you make it.. dunnes shoes for €10 -€15 instead of clarks for €45 - €50 ordinary school bags instead of designer ones.
I paid €146 for all their books and copies pens pencils maths sets and stuff on schoolbooks.ie and used the supervalu discount of 10%..the eldest girl did a deal for 5 books for €20 with a girl in 6th class that would have cost me €75 new

i won't need uniforms this year just trousers for both girls and they're a tenner each in dunnes..i always buy shirts a size bigger and get 2 years out of them.

I do think the crests should be available to buy seperate, although i have suggested it to the school that they could sell them and add a euro to each of them and hey presto you have a few quid in the coffers, or include it in the cost of the dreaded VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTION of €250...

I hate this €30 charge for paper and copying every year, i have one in 2nd and one in 6th and both come home with the same notes, sometimes 2 or 3 printed on one side.. why can't they just text me or email?? most houses now have a computer and if they don't then send those with notes..

They're always complaining of being strapped for cash and yet make very little effort to cut down on wastefulness..like heating running full blast even though the building is roasting and the kids a falling asleep from lack of air.

Bleh...rant over.. just hate paying money that i know is not well spent.:rolleyes:

smelltheglove

I was quite shocked when I visited my mam this week and she told me the expenses for my little bothers first year in secondary school. His books came to 356 and his uniform is over 300, this is including an expensive essential heavy winter coat. She was told if the coat was not worn he would not be allowed in to school wearing any other coat, and this is in free education.

My own daughter will be going into second class, the yearly school fees for this free school are €80. I havent gotten her uniform or her books yet but she needs a full new uniform, tracksuit and shoes along with a nice amount of socks etc. I am hoping to get all these in the next few weeks but Im not looking forward to the cost of it all I have to say. Thankfully the younger one will have the free playschool year this year which will save us a few bob but she will need new clothes for playschool too as she gets so dirty when going sometimes she goes through 2 outfits in the day.

I am really not looking forward to worrying about college fees, Im not in the position to save for college at the moment so I am sure that will be a hard time. I really do agree that the childrens allowance should be means tested. There are a lot of people who do not rely on it and as above there are people who go on holidays, drive fancy cars and have nice big houses getting it. I have a few family members that are putting it aside monthly and hoping to give their kids a big lump sum when they turn 18 or 21. I am afraid my kids will feel left out when they reach that age and many of their friends and cousins will be getting this money to buy themselves nice cars or whatever when I cant afford to give it to them. Secretly hoping for a lotto win before then;)

metrovelvet

I dont understand why they make you buy the books. Cant the school buy them and loan them to students for a year and then they're returned for the next class coming in.

smelltheglove

They change them so often they cant do that all the time. My daughters school are great for that though, in junior and senior infants they do that with the main books, you only have to buy the work books.

byhookorbycrook

metrovelvet wrote: »

I dont understand why they make you buy the books. Cant the school buy them and loan them to students for a year and then they're returned for the next class coming in.

Where do you think the school would get the money from?We have a rental scheme, but it's incredibly expensive to set up and the DES do not fund anything.

metrovelvet

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Where do you think the school would get the money from?We have a rental scheme, but it's incredibly expensive to set up and the DES do not fund anything.

Their budget? I asked because thats how it works in american public school. Free is free.

Chuchoter

The other thing thats crazy at second level is the number of books you get that you never use. I have the guts of an entire booklist of books we opened once, at most.

byhookorbycrook

metrovelvet wrote: »

Their budget? I asked because thats how it works in american public school. Free is free.

Most schools have to fundraise constantly to even pay for things like heat and light. Even the bould Eddie Hobbs found it impossible to run a school to break even. Hence my view that parents end up paying one way or another.

Nevyn

metrovelvet wrote: »

Their budget? I asked because thats how it works in american public school. Free is free.

Primary schools are funded with a grant per child which has to cover the running cost of the school (water, electricity, heat, bins) and 1 admin staff.
The schools never have enough money, it's a set budget with no lee way for if the weather turns bad and there needs to be more heat. The paper costs are not covered by the grant, children have to bring all lunch rubbish home to keep the costs down for the bins, one year we had extra fund-raising and the kids were asked to each bring in a roll of toilet paper each.

The core texts are changed every 3/4 years the publishers so the school can't keep buying them, each subject also has 1 to 2 workbooks which are written in by each child and can not be reused. Again it's intresting to see who the name behind each publishing house was and who they were pals with at the founding of the Irish state and so were awarded the school contracts.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

Primary schools are funded with a grant per child which has to cover the running cost of the school (water, electricity, heat, bins) and 1 admin staff.
The schools never have enough money, it's a set budget with no lee way for if the weather turns bad and there needs to be more heat. The paper costs are not covered by the grant, children have to bring all lunch rubbish home to keep the costs down for the bins, one year we had extra fund-raising and the kids were asked to each bring in a roll of toilet paper each.

The core texts are changed every 3/4 years the publishers so the school can't keep buying them, each subject also has 1 to 2 workbooks which are written in by each child and can not be reused. Again it's intresting to see who the name behind each publishing house was and who they were pals with at the founding of the Irish state and so were awarded the school contracts.

Jesus Christ. No offence, but that is lousy, not something you expect in the first world.

With parents subsidising costs, i would call this semi private education, which means they should have more say in school policy.

LittleBook

Found this article after a recent rant on this subject in R&R, hope it helps.

Outdo The Publishers - Cheaper School Books

Tabnabs

A new survey out today shows that the cost of putting a child through the system from primary school right through to college graduation is €70,000.

Primary education for one costs €13,500 over eight years and secondary school costs just over €14,000.

But the big bill kicks in at third level, with average total costs of nearly €42,000.

Absolute BS. Myself, my siblings and all my friends went through third level and not one of us had to pay anything near this figure. This is not a cost to the individual or their parents. This is paid for by the state/EU. More tabloid sensationalism.

gcgirl

Dyflin wrote: »

Absolute BS. Myself, my siblings and all my friends went through third level and not one of us had to pay anything near this figure. This is not a cost to the individual or their parents. This is paid for by the state/EU. More tabloid sensationalism.

not every one gets grants know a few people that over a period of 3/5 yrs ended up with a big loan to pay after college, esp the med students!

Little My

Thaedydal wrote: »

...

The core texts are changed every 3/4 years the publishers so the school can't keep buying them, each subject also has 1 to 2 workbooks which are written in by each child and can not be reused.....

I went to school in Northern Ireland so we got all our textbooks each year from the school and we had to hand them back at the end of the year. We also got whatever notebooks we needed from school.

What I dont get is why you have to *use* the workbooks. We got workbooks from the school, with all the blank spaces for answers and all that, but we just werent allowed to write in them.

Answers would be written in cheapy notebooks, meaning that workbooks didnt have to be replaced every year. Have any schools down here tried that?

storm2811

Recently went school shopping with my mam and little brother,he's going into 6th class and myself going into 5th year.
Over all we spent about 400 euro on just uniforms and school supplies alone(not including the school books).

Both our schools have uniforms that can only be bought in the local clothes shop which is way overpriced.
Jumpers about €40,skirt/trousers €60 and shoes can vary from €30-€120!!
Considering we usually buy two jumpers like it adds up to a lot!

The primary school in the next town just has standard blue jumpers and grey trousers which can be bought in tesco,dunnes,penneys for under €50 for the entire uniform.

Chuchoter

storm2811 wrote: »

Recently went school shopping with my mam and little brother,he's going into 6th class and myself going into 5th year.
Over all we spent about 400 euro on just uniforms and school supplies alone(not including the school books).

Both our schools have uniforms that can only be bought in the local clothes shop which is way overpriced.
Jumpers about €40,skirt/trousers €60 and shoes can vary from €30-€120!!
Considering we usually buy two jumpers like it adds up to a lot!

The primary school in the next town just has standard blue jumpers and grey trousers which can be bought in tesco,dunnes,penneys for under €50 for the entire uniform.

Why buy a boy in 6th class a new uniform? Its his last year?
And I don't know what kind of shoes you're buying, ever heard of Dunnes?

I mean I completely get your point, no school should be allowed to have uniforms you can't buy in Tesco or M&S, but school is as expensive as you make it.

storm2811

crayolastereo wrote: »

Why buy a boy in 6th class a new uniform? Its his last year?
And I don't know what kind of shoes you're buying, ever heard of Dunnes?

I mean I completely get your point, no school should be allowed to have uniforms you can't buy in Tesco or M&S, but school is as expensive as you make it.

His jumper got torn up last year and he's grown out of the other ones,kids grow fast you know!He only got a new jumper,not a whole new uniform.

In my school it's obligatory to wear dubarrys,incredibly stupid rule.

I don't know what it is with schools around here trying to have the most expensive looking,fancy uniforms when the majority of the town are unemployed and most of the teenagers are knackers.
(Not saying the unemployed are knackers but there are a lot of unemployed parents since the recession who can barely afford this stuff.)

XxMCRxBabyxX

gcgirl wrote: »

not every one gets grants know a few people that over a period of 3/5 yrs ended up with a big loan to pay after college, esp the med students!

Of €42,000 though?! I doubt their loans were that hight for 3 - 5 years of third level!

And why is it whenever fees are mentioned people seem to conveniently forget that if the plans to introduce fees come in, a "loan pay back" system of some form will be introduces as well. I.e. We won't pay the fees up front but rather will pay them off when we are working. There is no way people will just be expected to pay these fees upfront

Goesague

smelltheglove wrote: »

I was quite shocked when I visited my mam this week and she told me the expenses for my little bothers first year in secondary school. His books came to 356 and his uniform is over 300, this is including an expensive essential heavy winter coat. She was told if the coat was not worn he would not be allowed in to school wearing any other coat, and this is in free education.

That is completely illegal. A school in the "Free Education" scheme cannot force pupils to wear a uniform. If I was your mother I would not buy the coat, and when he is refused admission in another coat , I would go straight to the High Court. I would join the school principal, the board of management and religious order, if any, in the action.
Under the Constitution there is a right to free primary education. I cannot believe the cheek of schools looking for money from parents after gettting a grant from the government. If no enough money is given the children should be sent home until adequate resources are provided.

XxMCRxBabyxX

Goesague wrote: »

That is completely illegal. A school in the "Free Education" scheme cannot force pupils to wear a uniform. If I was your mother I would not buy the coat, and when he is refused admission in another coat , I would go straight to the High Court. I would join the school principal, the board of management and religious order, if any, in the action.
Under the Constitution there is a right to free primary education. I cannot believe the cheek of schools looking for money from parents after gettting a grant from the government. If no enough money is given the children should be sent home until adequate resources are provided.

So then the children won't get any education at all?

It's a well known fact that most schools are underfunded. They need to get what they can. I do believe that the 'Voluntary' contribution should actually be voluntary I understand why it's needed. Schools need money to keep themselves running, they aren't able to get enough from the grants so what do you expect them to do?

However I do agree that that coat issue is ridiculous

Goesague

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

So then the children won't get any education at all?

Schools need money to keep themselves running, they aren't able to get enough from the grants so what do you expect them to do?

However I do agree that that coat issue is ridiculous

Why isn't the grant sufficient? Because the schools take the easy way out and ask the parents for money, that's why. If the parents said no and told the schools to sue the minister for the money, which under the Constitution he the Minister is oblige to provide, the money would be found soon enough.