The cost of Free Education.

Dades

Uniforms, like lunches, are hardly a "cost of education"?

If a kid wasn't in school I would imagine they'd have to be clothed anyway. It's probably cheaper to stuff most kids into a uniform for most of the year rather than have them choose what they want to wear.

Nevyn

unregistered wrote: »

That's all well and good, but the school has to be deemed disadvantaged by the Dept of Ed....and my sons isn't...:-(

My kids school is deemed disadvantaged and the school a little up the road isn't.
The difference is the socio economics of the areas and if the estates are private or if a large % of the houses are rented out by the county council, what the employment rates are and what the drop out rates in the school and attendance rates.

The school rental scheme is in every school and is for anyone who has a full medical card.

Often the cost of the uniform and the 'dontation' is done to put certain people off from sending their children to those schools.


Uniforms are great esp in terms of wear and tear on other clothes, but it's all part of the ammount parents have to spend in the run up to September which unless you've saved or have the where with all that it's not an issue
it can be a bit of a burden and stressful.

Milk & Honey

I had a cousin who went to a school down the country. Very strict regulations about uniforms. had to be bought in a certain shop ect. Nuns always checking uniforms, complaining about excessively worn, too small, too big etc.
My aunt discovered though a friend of hers who was a bookkeeper that every teacher in the school got a free suit in the shop when they were appointed and discounts on everything they bought after that.
My cousin went in with a coat that was not the expensive uniform coat. When she was sent home for wearing it, my aunt rang the principal and said she would ring the radio and tell them about the free suits and discounts if my cousin was kept out of school.
My aunt was told to send my cousin back to school. She went back in the same coat as before. Nothing was said. She continued to wear her own coat till the end of her time in that school.

angelfire9

Funnily enough I went to a convent school (many moons ago) where 1st-3rd years had one uniform and seniors (4th & 5th year) had a different uniform
When I went into 5th year my pinafore was deemed too short by the nuns (it was above my knee but being 6ft tall it looked bad) note sent home to parents to get new pinafore parents went to principal and said no way were they coughing up for a uniform that i was only going to be wearing a few months
We had school blazers & coats and uniform pinafore and had to have indoor slippers so only the blouse & socks could be bought in Dunnes at the time

byhookorbycrook

Milk & Honey wrote: »

.
My aunt discovered though a friend of hers who was a bookkeeper that every teacher in the school got a free suit in the shop when they were appointed and discounts on everything they bought after that.
My cousin went in with a coat that was not the expensive uniform coat. When she was sent home for wearing it, my aunt rang the principal and said she would ring the radio and tell them about the free suits and discounts if my cousin was kept out of school.
.

I'd say, if this really DID happen, that it was a long long time ago. I've never had any kind of freebie from any shop, unless you count a Berol pen thrown in "for free" because they couldn't find the bar code(cost about €2)

Jo King

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'd say, if this really DID happen, that it was a long long time ago. I've never had any kind of freebie from any shop, unless you count a Berol pen thrown in "for free" because they couldn't find the bar code(cost about €2)

Are you a teacher and how much business to you direct to a particular shop? It is well known that tour guides are given freebies for ensuring busses stop outside particular shops or restaurants. Before the Kinnegad bypass thee was a special room in one of the restaurants for drivers and ticket girls where they were fed for free.

metrovelvet

I dont understand something.

If schools are under so much pressure and rely on parents contributions, then why force them to buy these expensive coats? Wouldnt it be wise to let them take the money they'd spend on a coat and use it on something else that the school needs?

If they are under pressure then they should be sensitive to the population also being under pressure.

A coat just seems like a superflous expense. Id rather the school had a decent library or science lab than obligatory coats.

Jo King

metrovelvet wrote: »

I dont understand something.

If schools are under so much pressure and rely on parents contributions, then why force them to buy these expensive coats? W

It's obvious. There is something in it for the owners of the school by way of backhanders. Why do it otherwise? The retailer generally marks up 100% on clothes. With school uniforms and the lack of competition the mark up is much higher. Maybe double. On a €300 coat there will be a profit of €200. Think of the profits on all of the other items. The retailer is making 10s of 1000s on just one school. Why would the retailer not give a kickback to ensure the business stays with them?

metrovelvet

Im not going to pay E300 for a winter coat that will be grown out of in a year. They can stuff it.

lily09

I totally agree with what parents here are saying. My school has a very simple navy uniform with white shirt that can be purchased from any high street retailer. My book list this year was so short a maths book readers and the rest copies scrap books etc. Im not a parent but can understand the frustration of paying extra for a set of clothes due to the crest.
However I just have one point to make in a lot of schools it is sometimes the parents that want more expensive accroutrements,, our parents council wanted to introduce a coat with a crest but the principal said no. Also a couple of parents last year implied that my shorter book lists were due to my laziness!
We also wanted to scrap swimming lessons for some classes so that they would also go every second year but there was huge problems with that and nearly world war2 when we suggested robes for the communion day.
My advice would be speak up many parents associations in schools are full of very strong personalities and the school needs to hear all sides.

ps the only kick back we have ever gotten from the shops that stock the tracksuit is a small box of roses at christmas. there is no conspiracy

byhookorbycrook

Jo King wrote: »

Are you a teacher and how much business to you direct to a particular shop? It is well known that tour guides are given freebies for ensuring busses stop outside particular shops or restaurants. Before the Kinnegad bypass thee was a special room in one of the restaurants for drivers and ticket girls where they were fed for free.

Yes, I'm a teacher, we have a book rental scheme so no freebies there. Uniform doesn't get us any freebies either. Tour guides?Can't say what happens there,nothing to do with us,the only tour guides I have been with are members of our own staff.

themadchef

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Tour guides?Can't say what happens there....

Completly off topic but...

I can say what happens there or at least in our place / other places i know of. Tour guides and drivers do not get charged. It's a perk, for repeat business.

As for uniforms and books. Uniforms from Dunnes / Tesco and the teachers buy the books, they change them rarely. I think last years bill for senior infants was €50. DEIS scheme or something like that keeps it lower.

SerialComplaint

Thaedydal wrote: »

The core texts are changed every 3/4 years the publishers so the school can't keep buying them,

The problem here is that the people paying the money (parents) are NOT the people making the decisions. It is up to the school to decide on what texts to use. They should certainly be very conscious about changing texts unnecessarily. If these changes are happening, talk to the Parents Association and/or parents rep on Board of Management.

Mary Hairy wrote: »

The school is in receipt of funding from the Dept of Education. One of the conditions of the funding is that the school cannot force a uniform on pupils.

Do you have more details on these Dept Education conditions? Where can I find them?

storm2811 wrote: »

In my school it's obligatory to wear dubarrys,incredibly stupid rule.

You can't be serious! The rule doesn't prescribe a particular brand, does it? What exactly does the rule say?

storm2811

SerialComplaint wrote: »

You can't be serious! The rule doesn't prescribe a particular brand, does it? What exactly does the rule say?

When I joined that school anyway that's what it said on the letter we were given.
They may have changed it now however,I'll have a look at what the first years are wearing when I go back because I won't be getting another uniform list this year.

metrovelvet

storm2811 wrote: »

When I joined that school anyway that's what it said on the letter we were given.
They may have changed it now however,I'll have a look at what the first years are wearing when I go back because I won't be getting another uniform list this year.

When I was shopping for shoes for my son I noticed what we in the US call 'deck shoes' on sale in the shop and I was curious because I didnt realise Irish people wore them and the shop assistant said they were for the school uniform and yes they were Dubarrys.

And for what it's worth they would be considered by us too casual for a school uniform since they are designed to be worn on a yacht so as not to ruin your boat.

Moonbeam

Overheard a conversation today about uniforms and I didn't know that some shops give schools a certain % of the profits for school uniforms and this is very common practice.

storm2811

metrovelvet wrote: »

When I was shopping for shoes for my son I noticed what we in the US call 'deck shoes' on sale in the shop and I was curious because I didnt realise Irish people wore them and the shop assistant said they were for the school uniform and yes they were Dubarrys.

And for what it's worth they would be considered by us too casual for a school uniform since they are designed to be worn on a yacht so as not to ruin your boat.

Haha,well they're considered to be "fancy" enough over here I suppose.
I hate them though.

Moonbeam wrote: »

Overheard a conversation today about uniforms and I didn't know that some shops give schools a certain % of the profits for school uniforms and this is very common practice.

I'd believe it but I don't know about my school.
Our uniforms can only be bought in one shop and that's in town,really expensive aswell so it could be possible.

Jo King

Moonbeam wrote: »

Overheard a conversation today about uniforms and I didn't know that some shops give schools a certain % of the profits for school uniforms and this is very common practice.

Why wouldn't the shops pay a commission to the school or more specifically to certain persons in the school? There are massive profits being made. Some people have to take out loans from loan sharks at exorbitant interest rates buying over priced clothing to avail of what is a basic right.

shortstuff

I have a six year old going into senior infants and a ten year old going into 5th class, when their books lists came out in the post i went and bought only the books and the total price was a few cent short of 150euro. I bought the rest of their school supplies between dunnes, tesco and the two euro shops(pencils, pens copies etc and they still came to another 70 quid. plus 40 more for 2 sets of shirts slacks and polo shirts. The rest of their uniforms crested jumpers and school tracksuits can only be bought in one shop in dublin's city centre, (i live about 30 miles away from the shop).The jumpers are €47 each and the tracksuits are €80 each. Their shoes and runners i've managed to get for €25 per pair so that's another hundred. Add on to that the school fees of €100 per child and i'm looking at a grand total of €714. This does not include the obligatory swimming lessons for my eldest son(yes these are obligatory as the school pays before hand and then passes the cost onto us, as they are non refundable to the school, stupid i know but that's the way of it.) I'm sure there is other costs as well but seeing as i was asked for money from the school on a pracitaclly monthly basis last year and the year before i can't recall them off the top of my head. I know €714 doesnt' sound like a lot but when you haven't got it and belive me there are alot of people who don't, i'm struggling with it myself ontop of all my other financial obligations it does add up, yes people can save for school costs but in the current financial and economical situation the country is in, saving just isn't an option for alot of people. I have friends who have had to empty their savings accounts bit by bit just to keep ontop of their regular bills. Free education is by no way, shape or form free at all.

deisemum

In my sons school there is only one shop to get the school trousers and they start at €40 per pair. These trousers had a small tag with 3 letters on it (school initials) that are hidden be the shirt and jumper. I'm taking a chance and going against school rules but I got school trousers in Dunnes yesterday at €11 per pair for the younger lad and €15 for the older lad.

I think it's immoral and also against competition rules that a school tries to force people to pay €40 per trousers when you can get the same shade of trousers for a quarter of the price and even less in Tesco.

My younger lad is starting secondary and I'm collecting his school books this afternoon and have to get the compulsory school jumper with crest in the school shop which is of poor quality. I'm dreading the cost plus I've to wait until next week to see which books the older lad will need plus I've a long list of costs such as mocks and JC fees, insurance and other fees to pay on first day back to school.

metrovelvet

deisemum wrote: »

In my sons school there is only one shop to get the school trousers and they start at €40 per pair. These trousers had a small tag with 3 letters on it (school initials) that are hidden be the shirt and jumper. I'm taking a chance and going against school rules but I got school trousers in Dunnes yesterday at €11 per pair for the younger lad and €15 for the older lad.

I think it's immoral and also against competition rules that a school tries to force people to pay €40 per trousers when you can get the same shade of trousers for a quarter of the price and even less in Tesco.

My younger lad is starting secondary and I'm collecting his school books this afternoon and have to get the compulsory school jumper with crest in the school shop which is of poor quality. I'm dreading the cost plus I've to wait until next week to see which books the older lad will need plus I've a long list of costs such as mocks and JC fees, insurance and other fees to pay on first day back to school.

Have any parent groups gone to the competition authority about it?

Sleepy

Just read through this thread and thinking the coming years could be costly. Best know about it now though so I can start saving every January for the coming September...

The wee man at home is starting 'big school' next week, the school provide all the books, materials etc. and the bill for that came to arround €130. Bag and pencils etc. was another thirty euro or so and there's no uniform so a few new 'school' tracksuits were picked up in Penneys for under €50. Seems like we're getting off quite light by comparison to some other places!

SerialComplaint

metrovelvet wrote: »

Have any parent groups gone to the competition authority about it?

I'm pretty sure the CA would have no statutory role in this.

shortstuff wrote: »

I have a six year old going into senior infants and a ten year old going into 5th class, when their books lists came out in the post i went and bought only the books and the total price was a few cent short of 150euro. I bought the rest of their school supplies between dunnes, tesco and the two euro shops(pencils, pens copies etc and they still came to another 70 quid. plus 40 more for 2 sets of shirts slacks and polo shirts. The rest of their uniforms crested jumpers and school tracksuits can only be bought in one shop in dublin's city centre, (i live about 30 miles away from the shop).The jumpers are €47 each and the tracksuits are €80 each. Their shoes and runners i've managed to get for €25 per pair so that's another hundred. Add on to that the school fees of €100 per child and i'm looking at a grand total of €714. This does not include the obligatory swimming lessons for my eldest son(yes these are obligatory as the school pays before hand and then passes the cost onto us, as they are non refundable to the school, stupid i know but that's the way of it.)

This is ludicrous. Have you spoken to the Parents Association and/or the parents rep on the Board of Management about this?

shortstuff

SerialComplaint wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the CA would have no statutory role in this.


This is ludicrous. Have you spoken to the Parents Association and/or the parents rep on the Board of Management about this?

Yes, alot of us have, the parents on the board even have a problme with the suppliers of the uniform only being in Dublin. They were made available to us on the school grounds for one day only previous to the last school term ending with less than one weeks notice( so for alot of parents we are left with no recourse as to wait and buy them from the shop over the summer, seeing as most of us wouldnt' just have that money lying aroundd spare). Apparently there is nothing that can be done about it as the school has the contract with the suppliers on a block of years basis(not sure how many years before it's up for renewal). I remeber last year my eldest son lost his school tie a couple of months before school ended and he was constantly getting notes sent home about it by his teacher (even though i had already spoken to his teacher), I had to go see his principle to stop his teacher from getting on to him about, as it wasnt' his fault that i refused to travel so far and with such expense for the sake of (after you take out days off and half days) what was essentially 6 weeks of school for the sake of a €3 school tie. The school systems in this country have alot to answer for across the entire board, from pre-school to third level but as usual nothing will be done to change it anytime soon. I understand how badly underfunded the schools are(the school in question has been waiting nearly four years for their permenant building, the wait was only supposed to be six months after the september school term started). I know that they need the monies however i just dont' know where the gov/school admin expect parents to come up every penny that is needed in the current econmic climate.
Sorry for the rant, i'm going to Dublin to get the rest of the uniforms today and not looking forward to draggin my kids around a part of the city that i'm not altogether familiar with (hence not leaving the car there) and there's also no public transport going to or by anywhere near the particular store. arrhh..

Sorry again.:o

SerialComplaint

shortstuff wrote: »

Yes, alot of us have, the parents on the board even have a problme with the suppliers of the uniform only being in Dublin. They were made available to us on the school grounds for one day only previous to the last school term ending with less than one weeks notice( so for alot of parents we are left with no recourse as to wait and buy them from the shop over the summer, seeing as most of us wouldnt' just have that money lying aroundd spare). Apparently there is nothing that can be done about it as the school has the contract with the suppliers on a block of years basis(not sure how many years before it's up for renewal).

Keep the pressure up, again and again and again. The Parents Association should be having their AGM in Sept, so this is a great opportunity to raise a head of steam on this issue. Get a few other parents on board to go to the meeting with you and make it very clear that this has to change.

Find out exactly what is the contract between the school and the supplier and how long it has to run. Push the BoM to get legal advice on the impacts of them breaking the contract. Push them to renegotiate the prices (as everyone else in the country has done) to reflect the current reality.

Boxoffrogs

I have to pay the following:

School Jacket: 55 Euro
Trousers: 45 Euro
Jumper: 38 Euro
Tie: 9 Euro
Shirt: 7 Euro

Tracksuit I think is about 100 Euro, I have yet to buy

My son's school have also insisted that the children wear white soled shoes, they have arranged their own supplier, so these are probably astronomically priced too.

Their book rental scheme: 150 Euro first year and 75 Euro in second year, for books that cost in total 250 Euro, so you're very nearly paying for the books which I'm sure the school will have bought at a discount so they may well be making a small profit.

I've already handed over 105 Euro in contributions.

Like some, I am buying his trousers and shirt where I can find them cheaper, I'll take any consequences, I would actually relish the idea of them taking me on in this matter because I'm heartily sick of being asked to stump over cash that I just don't have. I really think it's time for parents to put their heads together and tackle these issues.

Nevyn

We got a note home from the school asking that eavery child have thier own prittstick, prefable a large one. Does it never end.

byhookorbycrook

Thaedydal wrote: »

We got a note home from the school asking that eavery child have thier own prittstick, prefable a large one. Does it never end.

I know of some schools who have asked children to bring their own loo roll.

Fittle

My son wears a blue crested tshirt with a collar under his school crested tracksuit top. With navy trousers.

Over the summer, like all of you, I've been struggling financially and so decided to buy plain blue tshirts (with collar) in dunnes - 3 for 7euro. The school crested tshirt with collar is only available in one shop, at a cost of 21euro per tshirt.

On his first day back, the weather was lovely and he took his jumper off while playing in the yard, all the while, wearing his un-crested tshirt (the exact same colour as all others btw). Later in the afternoon, the principal came in to his classroom and told him to 'bring this note home to your parents'. The note said
Dear Ms X, I noted today that your son X was not wearing the school designated t-shirt. It is imperative that all boys wear the uniform, as indicated on the school charter..blah blah blah blah blah...'

I'm appalled to say the least.

teacosy

I can't wait for my 3 children to all be in school.

By the time the last one starts we'll have forked out the guts of 150k in creche fees. Primary and secondary school expensive? Yeah right.