Light rail system for city proposed

RobitTV

A light rail system for Waterford city, which would see the Red Iron Railway Bridge restored to its former glory, has been envisaged as part of a plan to save the Waterford-Rosslare railway line.

This potential three-phase development could also pave the way for the rejuvenation of the Tramore-New Ross line via Waterford through a restored interconnecting route.

In a document obtained by The Munster Express, a British-based operator (which is opting for anonymity at this time) has outlined its ambitions for a line which Iarnród Éireann has applied to withdraw its existing service from.

And while legislation to permit the lease or sale of a State-run line to a private operator would be required, the proposal makes for intriguing reading.

The ‘future extensions’ element of the proposal is likely to prove of particular interest to city residents, politicians and tourist operators alike.

The British operator aims to create a circular light rail loop around the city centre which would service Waterford Regional Hospital, Waterford Institute of Technology and the city’s industrial estates.

“Access across the River Suir from the Railway Station will be by means of the disused Railway Bridge to the North West of the city centre (at Grannagh). A North-South interconnecting service is planned from New Ross to Tramore, utilising the disused rail routes.”

The first phase of the proposal would focus solely on the existing Waterford-Rosslare route, with services running hourly in each direction between 6am and 10pm.

“Safety procedures will be implemented for the safe interaction of the light rail vehicles with the existing heavy rail services,” the proposal reads.

“The trams would in fact be operated in Tram/Train mode as determined by the current trials in the UK.”

merlante

Interesting stuff. Seems to have gone slightly beyond the pipe dream stage.

Queue an endless stream of "it'll never happen" replies.

wit_less

Is it just me, or does anyone else get tired of these lazy news reports that cite "anonymous" sources and sound like a conversation someone had in a pub at the weekend ("you know what would be a great idea, why not have a railway from Tramore to New Ross?").

How about some analysis, costings, discussion of potential operators, interview CIE for their opinion, ditto Minister for Transport, etc.

I would dearly love to see a Tramore-Waterford-New Ross railway and light rail in the city. I also love motherhood and apple pie and I used to love Santa Claus.

I see no evidence in the report that it has gone beyond the pipe dream stage.

Finnbar01

Load of dickie if you ask me.

Dum_Dum

merlante wrote: »

Interesting stuff. Seems to have gone slightly beyond the pipe dream stage.

Queue an endless stream of "it'll never happen" replies.

It'll never happen.

SillyMcCarthy

No doubt BMC will have some input:mad:

JohnC.

My thought after seeing the title was "It'll never happen". But if this British operator is a proper experienced operator who have some idea what they are doing, perhaps it might not be so pie-in-the-sky after all. But there is the whole permission hurdle.

Smiley Burnett

wit_less wrote: »

Is it just me, or does anyone else get tired of these lazy news reports that cite "anonymous" sources and sound like a conversation someone had in a pub at the weekend ("you know what would be a great idea, why not have a railway from Tramore to New Ross?").

How about some analysis, costings, discussion of potential operators, interview CIE for their opinion, ditto Minister for Transport, etc.

I would dearly love to see a Tramore-Waterford-New Ross railway and light rail in the city. I also love motherhood and apple pie and I used to love Santa Claus.

I see no evidence in the report that it has gone beyond the pipe dream stage.

well said!!

tombliboo83

I hate to be overly negative but it's a load of BS! Restoring the red iron?MILLIONS of euro. Resignalling, relaying track to Tramore..never. Lovely ideas but fantasy

hardybuck

Two things on this. First is that I've heard that there will be suggestions made to the Government that a community rail project would operate the Rosslare line, similar to projects which have been successful in the UK. This would involve the City Council and probably Wexford County Council entering into a partnership with the rail operator to jointly run and market the line.

Secondly we've had suggestions from the folks at Waterford Suir Valley Railway that they'd like to extend their service possibly up as far as the Plaza when the work on the Quay will be taking place shortly. Apparently lines at Waterford Stanley are still in existence and it wouldn't be a massive job. They are also planning stops at the likes of WIT, opening the service up to commuters as well as tourists.

I wouldn't rule something decent developing yet. As always funds will be an issue. I'm not 100%, but if you enter a public-private partnership with developers, funds do not need to be provided until the completion of the project, by which time the State's coffers may have improved.

Godsentme

There will never be another railway to Tramore. Forget it. And even it there was nobody would use it. Times have changed.

It was great when it was there because there was not many cars about and it was the only way people had to bring families to the beach.

I remember being on it as a kid and the excitement of it all but those days are gone.

Let it be what it is now, to those who remember, a beautiful sweet memory. Happier times.

sunnysoutheast

I don't think the original alignment of the Tramore route was even protected was it? So that would be a non-starter. The iron bridge would surely need replacement not repair, and of course would have to be lifting due to the oil terminal at Fiddown. If it was to reopen the direct route to Cork then maybe the money could be found, but to Tramore?!?! The problem with the New Ross line is that the level crossing on the N25 is now gone, so the route would presumably have to terminate, and with a New Ross bypass planned it's difficult to see where any traffic would come from as no through route to Dublin is possible as this would be ideal.

I can see the potential in a "sunny south east" line connecting Waterford, Rosslare, Wexford, timed to meet the ferries and with bus connections to Hook lighthouse, Dunmore East etc., and extending the light rail from Kilmeaden could be a great asset, but I think the rest would have been fanciful even in Celtic Tiger days. Reopening railways costs millions and needs political clout.

SSE

http://www.trampower.co.uk/
These guys were involved in dreaming up plans for something similar in Galway.

http://www.gluas.ie/who-we-are/

dayshah

The Suir Valley costs €8, which is fine for a tourist train but not realistic for a daily commuter train.

I'd like to see it happen, but a full time commuter train with be a whole different ballpark.

Partizan

Godsentme wrote: »

There will never be another railway to Tramore. Forget it. And even it there was nobody would use it. Times have changed.

It was great when it was there because there was not many cars about and it was the only way people had to bring families to the beach.

I remember being on it as a kid and the excitement of it all but those days are gone.

Let it be what it is now, to those who remember, a beautiful sweet memory. Happier times.

Absolute nonsense. If you provide people with a reliable, punctual public transport service, they will use it. The amount of cars using the Waterford - Tramore road would greatly diminish if the railway was reinstated. If people see a regular and reliable rail service, they will abandon their cars and use it. You could provide a regular service between Waterford & Tramore with an intermediate station at Kilbarry to cater for Ursuline Court and Cherrymount based commuters to both Tramore and the city. The problem is, the allignment was never kept, however with land prices heading for rock bottom, the case could be made for its reinstatement. If the private operators are serious, then by all means let them submit their proposal.

That said I'm a tad bit on the cynical side and cannot see this happening. What should be done now is providing a regular Limerick Junction - Waterford - Rosslare - Wexford service and someone to get into bed with the Waterford & Suir Valley Railway and provide a commuter service from Kilmeaden to the Quay.

Cabaal

It would be fantastic if it happened but sadly thats a very big IF

merlante

Partizan wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. If you provide people with a reliable, punctual public transport service, they will use it. The amount of cars using the Waterford - Tramore road would greatly diminish if the railway was reinstated. If people see a regular and reliable rail service, they will abandon their cars and use it. You could provide a regular service between Waterford & Tramore with an intermediate station at Kilbarry to cater for Ursuline Court and Cherrymount based commuters to both Tramore and the city. The problem is, the allignment was never kept, however with land prices heading for rock bottom, the case could be made for its reinstatement. If the private operators are serious, then by all means let them submit their proposal.

That said I'm a tad bit on the cynical side and cannot see this happening. What should be done now is providing a regular Limerick Junction - Waterford - Rosslare - Wexford service and someone to get into bed with the Waterford & Suir Valley Railway and provide a commuter service from Kilmeaden to the Quay.

The alignment does not have to be kept if the train/tram goes on the road. It would be a train really, because electrification of the line would not be cost effective.

The fact that there is a company that is willing to entertain the concept is interesting. Maybe there is also somebody local with a bit of money involved. There was a time these individuals were trying to build skyscrapers, maybe one or two have some money left.

marathont

A decent bus service would be more feasible and realistic. (although not as cool).

sunnysoutheast

merlante wrote: »

The alignment does not have to be kept if the train/tram goes on the road. It would be a train really, because electrification of the line would not be cost effective.

The fact that there is a company that is willing to entertain the concept is interesting. Maybe there is also somebody local with a bit of money involved. There was a time these individuals were trying to build skyscrapers, maybe one or two have some money left.

I think having trams etc. running down the centre of the Tram ore Road would be fantastic but I think we're in danger of clouding the real issue which is that IE are trying to close a railway which they have been deliberately running down for many years, with no doubt the entire route to Limerick to follow, and with a little thought and application could be an asset for the region - imagine a combined ferry/rail rover which covers you for a trip from London->Stena Line via Fishguard->weekend travel on the regular railway services in the Sunny South East loop - Waterford, Tipp., Wexford, Kilkenny - with services back on Sunday evening to connect with the ferry again. That would be a great weekend away, hell the trip in from Rosslare is worth the tenner just for the scenery.

SSE

merlante

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I think having trams etc. running down the centre of the Tram ore Road would be fantastic but I think we're in danger of clouding the real issue which is that IE are trying to close a railway which they have been deliberately running down for many years, with no doubt the entire route to Limerick to follow, and with a little thought and application could be an asset for the region - imagine a combined ferry/rail rover which covers you for a trip from London->Stena Line via Fishguard->weekend travel on the regular railway services in the Sunny South East loop - Waterford, Tipp., Wexford, Kilkenny - with services back on Sunday evening to connect with the ferry again. That would be a great weekend away, hell the trip in from Rosslare is worth the tenner just for the scenery.

SSE

Agree completely with all that. Was thinking the same myself.

Cavehill Red

merlante wrote: »

Interesting stuff. Seems to have gone slightly beyond the pipe dream stage.

Queue an endless stream of "it'll never happen" replies.

Of course it will. Martin Cullen's magic beans will provide. Just like that cancer centre, that university, that ...
Oh, wait.

mark17

To be honest and to look at this in reality, that provider will be simply
told he can have a licence to operate such a venture in Cork, Limerick
or Galway, but Waterford no way. That is the way it is, it's the way it's
always been. For Je*&s sake since the powers that be won't even allow a Sunday bus service for the city, who in their right minds will believe trains
and tram lines will be allowed, this won't happen end of story. This is waterford
the city that waited over a hundred and fifty years for a second river crossing
and we have to pay for that..................................................

Partizan

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Of course it will. Martin Cullen's magic beans will provide. Just like that cancer centre, that university, that ...
Oh, wait.

You got to hand it to the guy. Perhaps the most useless minister ever up there with Dick Roche and Noel Dempsey and is now enjoying retirement on a ministerial and TD pension and he got 11,500 suckers to pay for it.

merlante

Partizan wrote: »

You got to hand it to the guy. Perhaps the most useless minister ever up there with Dick Roche and Noel Dempsey and is now enjoying retirement on a ministerial and TD pension and he got 11,500 suckers to pay for it.

Whatever you say about him, he got the bypass, the motorway, the ORR, the re-opening of the airport, and many other smaller projects. Not the windfall that other ministers have delivered for their constituencies, but not too bad either.

Speak Now

merlante wrote: »

Whatever you say about him, he got the bypass, the motorway, the ORR, the re-opening of the airport, and many other smaller projects. Not the windfall that other ministers have delivered for their constituencies, but not too bad either.

I don't think all these were down to Minister Cullen.

Partizan

merlante wrote: »

Whatever you say about him, he got the bypass, the motorway, the ORR, the re-opening of the airport, and many other smaller projects. Not the windfall that other ministers have delivered for their constituencies, but not too bad either.

I suppose you also attribute him to your general happiness and well being.

Total nonsense. The bypass and motorway were already in the pipeline before he got in and anyway, all one has to do is look at the state of public transport in the city and its environs. FFS they are closing the Waterford to Rosslare railway a vital piece of infrastructure in the South East. if Cullen had been doing his job, Waterford city would have regular rail links with surrounding towns.

He was an overpaid arrogant waster.

merlante

Partizan wrote: »

I suppose you also attribute him to your general happiness and well being.

Total nonsense. The bypass and motorway were already in the pipeline before he got in and anyway, all one has to do is look at the state of public transport in the city and its environs. FFS they are closing the Waterford to Rosslare railway a vital piece of infrastructure in the South East. if Cullen had been doing his job, Waterford city would have regular rail links with surrounding towns.

He was an overpaid arrogant waster.

You can think and believe whatever you want, but without Cullen those things would not have come to pass.

Harney was against the motorway, and she wasn't even in the opposition -- her objections were stated publicly. The ORR was started, if you recall, from the Dunmore rd. as a single lane carriageway. It would have continued as such, built in painstaking stages by the city council, until the dept. of Finance mysterious funded a much more ambitious project directly (OPW was part of finance). Also, I don't for one second believe that the bypass would have been built to the current spec. There would have been a second river crossing and that was that. That project alone is probably the most expensive infrastructure project ever built in Waterford or that will ever be built. You may recall that up until around 2003, any suggestion that the government would have built a second river crossing were (quite rightly) greeted with sneers of contempt. Many things are planned -- like the North Quays -- delivery is all that matters in the end, and these things were delivered. The airport would probably not exist if it weren't for a cabinet presence being able to respond to the good work of Nicky Fewer and others. Aer Arann certainly wouldn't be flying out of there, and nobody else would be either.

A lot of things didn't happen. But if you think that the delivery of the above would have been automatic in any case, then you're dreaming. Not really willing to argue it any further, because people will believe what they want to believe.

gscully

Partizan wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. If you provide people with a reliable, punctual public transport service, they will use it. The amount of cars using the Waterford - Tramore road would greatly diminish if the railway was reinstated. If people see a regular and reliable rail service, they will abandon their cars and use it. You could provide a regular service between Waterford & Tramore with an intermediate station at Kilbarry to cater for Ursuline Court and Cherrymount based commuters to both Tramore and the city.

I couldn't disagree more. We've already established in the nightlife threads just how lazy people in Waterford are. It's a 15-20 mins drive to Tramore from most parts of the city. Would you expect people to walk 10-15 mins just to get to their nearest station, and then walk down to the prom in Tramore when they could get there quicker by car? Perhaps they might be on for parking at the stations, but honestly, where can you see these stations popping up with relevant parking space?

I doubt Tramore Town Council would be too in favour of it either, now that they have their little parking-fee cash-cow in operation.

Godsentme

Think about it. it is so convenient to hop in a car outside the door than to go go looking for parking at either end of a railway link which after all is only 10k journey.

Having said that, it would be great for school runs to All the schools around the park area and that, and shopping in that part of town.

Perhaps a tram system akin to the luas would be a better option for Tramore.

merlante

I always feel I have to remind people that there are many people, the old, the poor, the young, and those who do not drive, that do not have a car outside their door! These people will of course walk 10-15 mins to a train stop, and in fact are more likely to live near the city centre where transport is convenient.

There are about 15,000 living in the city centre, that would be within 5-7 mins of a stop, and you could catch another 7,000 with two stops on the way out of the city, say at John's park and out further, within the same walking distance. That's about 44% of the city's population. If it started in Ferrybank, you could bring that up to nearly 50%. That means 0-7mins from your front door and no need to bother with finding parking in Tramore, and no need to find street parking again when you get back home. You'll also get people who do not own a car (because for many a car is an unnecessary waste of money) that will walk up to 20mins to a train stop. So I could definitely see the train being of use to at least half of the city population -- even taking into account many people's car bound laziness.

There are 10,000 people living in Tramore, you could cover a lot of that with a couple of stations.

Needless to say that it would be a commuter link as well. With a 100% synchronized shuttle bus from, say, John's park to WIT and the industrial estate, it would be a good option for many in Tramore.

I know it is hard to see these kind of things happening, but you never know.

EDIT: Kind of got mixed up with an airport route from another thread there... still you would potentially catch more population out the airport rd. than the tramore road. But then, maybe not.

Asmodean

Have to agree that a decent bus service would be a much more feasible idea. Whenever Im back home on a Sunday Im still gobsmacked when I remember there is no Sunday service. Absolutely crazy.