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legal recognition of transgendered people

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Comments

  • #52
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2011/07/minister-burton-announces-legislation-on-gender-recognition-and-publishes-the-report-of-the-gender-recognition-advisory-group/?cat=12


  • #53
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    http://www.teni.ie/attachments/98ceb736-ff8d-40f4-b5d9-ff921e0ab855.PDF

    The report itself.


  • #54
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I had a quick glance through the GRAG report - I am struck by a few things - The medical language constantly used - The reccomendations not to amend equality or data protection legislation - The terminology seems wrongly worded to me - "acquired gender" - sounds absolutely horrible (I know it's a UK term) and "changing gender" also seems completely wrong in my view - As I understand it - a trans person is always their identified gender - it is their sex that is wrong (or perhaps thats a misunderstanding on my part) -

    They also reccomend forcing divorce or dissolving CP - despite Thomas Hammarbergs reccomendations - This is a major issue problem that will delay transitions because of the constitutional timeframes for divorce (which they admit themselves)

    I am also shocked that the GRAG was entirely civil servants - they met with groups but had no TRANS group or representative on the GRAG

    http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/Legislation/Documents/gragreportjune11.pdf

    It's a major step forward but it's not entirely great and does have some flaws

    I think that forcing divorce/Cp dissolution needs to be looked at in the context of a proposed constitutional amendment for marriage equality - It may be constitutionally necessary to force divorce/Cp dissolution in the short term but I think that needs to be highlighted that it should only be a short term measure that should be repealed at a later stage

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #55
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Really good critique of the report

    http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/government-of-the-people-but-not-for-transgendered-people/

    http://www.mamanpoulet.com/gender-recognition-report-fails-to-recognise/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #56
    deirdre_dub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭deirdre_dub


    TENI are going to have a community forum with a view towards getting input from the community to present to the minister.

    Also, Louise has written her first thoughts about the report.


  • #57
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Article on Mandatory forced divorce

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0725/1224301312860.html

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #58
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    deirdre_dub wrote: »
    TENI are going to have a community forum with a view towards getting input from the community to present to the minister.

    Also, Louise has written her first thoughts about the report.

    Bump - that's on tonight. Its open to all - trans and trans allies

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #59
    Shakti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    Wish I could go as I'm quite disappointed (not surprised) with the GRAG report it strikes me as a very defensive (also reductive, repressive, authoritarian, narrow, short sighted and uninformed) response to trans-folk and their needs.


  • #60
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    http://www.tv3.ie/ireland_am.php?video=38034&locID=1.65.74
    TENI Director Broden Giambrone discussed the proposed legislation to enable gender recognition this morning on TV3's Ireland: AM. Giambrone was interviewed alongside trans activists and educators Cat McIlroy and Leslie Sherlock.


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  • #61
    Shakti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    We didn't need 'GRAG' to outline the hypocrisy of Irish Law regarding marriage cow-towed as it is to the 'catholic church' who are indeed eminently more capable of demonstrating their hypocrisy themselves on this and other matters.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0115/catholic.html


  • #62
    Asry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Asry


    Shakti wrote: »
    We didn't need 'GRAG' to outline the hypocrisy of Irish Law regarding marriage cow-towed as it is to the 'catholic church' who are indeed eminently more capable of demonstrating their hypocrisy themselves on this and other matters.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0115/catholic.html

    What's GRAG? :o

    (a derailing LEAP in defence of the changing face of marriage laws and hereafter any retorts can be addressed to me through PM) And Irish marriage law is changing quickly...I hardly think that using the Church as a scapegoat regarding things like this is a convincing or even viable argument anymore.

    As far as I'm aware, in Ireland the only people the Church's stance on homosexuality affects are LGBT Catholics.

    Everyone else seems to really not care who does what as long as they're happy and don't hurt anyone, and the laws and the Dáil are shifting to reflect that (derailment ended. Back to transitioning and workplaces).


  • #63
    Shakti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Shakti


    Asry wrote: »
    What's GRAG? :o
    Gender Recognition Advisory Group

    Your right its off topic,
    last point ,

    If the catholic church embraced same sex marriage how long before the state would follow suit? I'd guess pretty quickly.

    But if the state adopts same sex marriage on its own do you think the church would in turn?
    I don't think so more likely they (the church) would actively campaign against it.

    So whose controlling who?


  • #64
    Azure_sky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭Azure_sky


    Ireland is supposed to be a secular country. The church should have zero influence in politics.


  • #65
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Very good opinion piece in today Irish Times


    www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0922/1224304521120.html

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #66
    KnifeWRENCH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    Azure_sky wrote: »
    Ireland is supposed to be a secular country. The church should have zero influence in politics.

    Indeed, and I reckon an ever increasing portion of Irish people would agree with that. (Not sure about majority but definitely a large number.)

    Unfortunately, it's so ingrained in Irish society now that it will probably be a long time before the Church's influence will be fully removed, if ever. The situation has certainly improved in recent years but I don't know if we'll ever have total separation.


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