trouble at Bristol/Millwall Game

bonkers

This is going to be all over the news tonight, BBC anyways

http://www.balls.ie/2010/08/09/reeling-in-the-years/

CiaranC

bonkers wrote: »

This is going to be all over the news tonight, BBC anyways

http://www.balls.ie/2010/08/09/reeling-in-the-years/

They dont put trouble at English football on TV anymore

Kingp35

This sort of thing happens all the time in England, the media just ignore it these days. If it happens outside the ground then it's nothing to do with the clubs.

Gavin "shels"

Hardly trouble tbh, bit of a scuffle, happens every week in England.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

How gay did the cameraman sound?:pac:

Very tame compared to West Ham v Millwall last year, doubt it'll make the news.

On a similar note, anyone know any good hooligan books or films?

lord lucan

Kingp35 wrote: »

This sort of thing happens all the time in England, the media just ignore it these days. If it happens outside the ground then it's nothing to do with the clubs.

And with England bidding for the 2018 WC you can bet the media organisations have been asked to keep these 'incidents' out of the public eye.

major bill

doesnt happen as often where ye would get big running battles but little scuffles like that are common throughtout england for those type of games just never gets reported or the news never gets the footage this was isolated cos someone sent his own coverage to bbc.
The people fighting there, was only a small number to what was actually involved all day.

btw think there is something wrong with the cameraman.

major bill

baz2009 wrote: »

How gay did the cameraman sound?:pac:

Very tame compared to West Ham v Millwall last year, doubt it'll make the news.

On a similar note, anyone know any good hooligan books or films?

films
The firm (2009) probably the best and the original version of the firm(1988)
ID
Football factory
Away days this is a bit differant to your average FV film as one of the main characters is gay and fancies his mate.
Cas

not really into the books as they are usually all the same.

therecklessone

Know a bloke who lives in Bristol, said things got quite hairy after the game.

Fozzie Bear

Kingp35 wrote: »

This sort of thing happens all the time in England, the media just ignore it these days. If it happens outside the ground then it's nothing to do with the clubs.

I was at Elland Road saturday and there was some aggro there too afterwards. Heard today 12 arrests made. Looked like a lot of hangbags to be honest, chanting, crap like that. The horse and dogs units soon put the ki-bosh on it and seperated the two groups.

I was in The Beech pub (a fairly intimidating spot btw, Peacock has nothing on it) afterwards and got talking to a local dude. He was a member of some local "firm" and told me they do not normally get involved in crap like that directly outside the grounds. The two sets of "fans" phone each other and organise a meeting at a location away from the cops and ground to knock sh1te out of each other. Far better organised these days and far more active then people realise. He reckoned it was just drunken monkeys that get involved in stuff like that directly outside the grounds.

Gavin "shels"

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

He was a member of some local "firm" and told me they do not normally get involved in crap like that directly outside the grounds. The two sets of "fans" phone each other and organise a meeting at a location away from the cops and ground to knock sh1te out of each other. Far better organised these days and far more active then people realise. He reckoned it was just drunken monkeys that get involved in stuff like that directly outside the grounds.

That's the way it's done by most firms in England, Scotland and to a small extent Ireland, very secretive these days.

Sure 250 PSG fans were arrested last night and don't think that made the news.

frantic190

Gavin shels wrote: »

and to a small extent Ireland

I am told by a reliable source, that this is what some Bohs and Rovers fans did before the match at dalyer, to keep it away from the kids and guards, backed up by the fact that neither sides "bogies" were present for the match.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

I was at Elland Road saturday and there was some aggro there too afterwards. Heard today 12 arrests made. Looked like a lot of hangbags to be honest, chanting, crap like that. The horse and dogs units soon put the ki-bosh on it and seperated the two groups.

Ahh, I had planned on going to that game.

Gavin "shels"

frantic190 wrote: »

I am told by a reliable source, that this is what some Bohs and Rovers fans did before the match at dalyer, to keep it away from the kids and guards, backed up by the fact that neither sides "bogies" were present for the match.

That's the case, remember last season the derby was out in Tallaght, yet heading out to Kildare for a Shels match and seen a few dozens lads after having a mill around the Naas Road.

daithijjj

These types of things are organised over the internet aswel. When i lived in bristol there was the play'offs being held in cardiff, millwall/sheffield united/bristol city and another team (cant remember, was back in 05 i think).

A 400 man brawl took place on the waterfront in bristol, as it happened, the council were filming that day for an application for bristol to be european city of culture :pac:

Bristol is a nice place, but the locals...............love a scuffle shall i say. On the same weekend of the 400 man brawl around 200 bristol fans went into a pub in cardiff and told all the staff and patrons to leave, they loocked themselves in, got tanked up for 4 or 5 hours. The footage in the OP is something that happens alot but you would never hear about it unless you were a local to be honest.

OPENROAD

Kingp35 wrote: »

This sort of thing happens all the time in England, the media just ignore it these days. If it happens outside the ground then it's nothing to do with the clubs.

You go to matches every other week?

If it happens a few miles away from the ground then rightly so it has nothing to do with the clubs, not that this sort of thing happens all the time as you put it and that all clubs have a problem with it.

Where do you draw a line on calling something a football related violence and just plain violence.

OPENROAD

Gavin shels wrote: »

That's the case, remember last season the derby was out in Tallaght, yet heading out to Kildare for a Shels match and seen a few dozens lads after having a mill around the Naas Road.

Never reported by the Irish media though, or did I miss it?

Gavin as someone who does not go to LOI matches are their many incidents like the above? Do matches take place with zero arrests? Does seem to be a reasonable police presence at matches from what I have seen on tv.

FUNKY LOVER

i can assure you there has been incidents and firms in the league of ireland for years,mainly the bohs soccer casuals and rover casuals.i have witnessed first hand many brawls from cork to limerick to inchicore.

therecklessone

OPENROAD wrote: »

Where do you draw a line on calling something a football related violence and just plain violence.

Probably when the two distinct groups choose another identifier on which they can base their animosity?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

If they batter the shíte out of eachother in a secluded place I don't see much of a problem, tbh. It's their own lives. I was looking at Danny Dyer's Real Football Factories one night and I think it was Germany where they meet up out in the back arse of no where in a woods and go hell for leather at eachother.

It's when the trouble comes in and around the stadium where there are families, OAPs and children is when I'd have a big problem with it.

stovelid

baz2009 wrote: »

good hooligan books or films?

Oxymoron.

Kingp35

OPENROAD wrote: »

If it happens a few miles away from the ground then rightly so it has nothing to do with the clubs, not that this sort of thing happens all the time as you put it and that all clubs have a problem with it.

This stuff does happen all the time. Sure my own club Leeds are always getting into scuffles with away fans. It's never very serious but I see it nearly everytime I go over. The media's beloved Man Utd are on of the worst of the lot for getting into fights. You just don't hear about unless it happens inside the ground.

Don't kid yourself, fighting between football happens is as ripe today as it always has been.

Fozzie Bear

Kingp35 wrote: »

This stuff does happen all the time. Sure my own club Leeds are always getting into scuffles with away fans. It's never very serious but I see it nearly everytime I go over.

Yup thats very true. I've seen various types of aggro at Elland Road too most times I'm over. Its usually nothing too serious as i said previously. Chanting and general milling about. There are just too many cops around on match days for it to get out of hand. Mind you when Millwall come to town all bets are off on that.

Kingp35 wrote: »

Don't kid yourself, fighting between football happens is as ripe today as it always has been.

I'd also agree with that too. The fella from the Leeds "firm" I was talking to was telling me last season he got 77 stitches put in his head and torso after an away game (he had the scars to prove it). He had also just received a 4 year ban during the summer from all football grounds in the UK and had a suspended sentence hanging over him.

He explained that the two sets of crews usually phone ahead, organise a meeting place in an industrial estate, empty car park or wasteland somewhere and go at each other hammer and tongs. They specifically go out of their way to avoid the cops and other spectators or fans who do not want to be involved or hurt. It is only members of both firms that are involved which is why its not really publicised and a blind eye is turned to it all. It goes on before most games in the UK and is widespread according to him.

Gavin "shels"

OPENROAD wrote: »

Never reported by the Irish media though, or did I miss it?

Gavin as someone who does not go to LOI matches are their many incidents like the above? Do matches take place with zero arrests? Does seem to be a reasonable police presence at matches from what I have seen on tv.

Never reported by the Irish media as it's usually not known by the majority of the public just by word of mouth, usually not mainly incidents like that usually just between Rovers and Bohs and when they have some Scottish or Welsh hooligans over.

I can say in all my years supporting Shels home and away I think I've seen one arrest in the last 8 years, also been to a couple of Bohs and Rovers derbies in Philsboro and never seen an arrest. Always a reasonable garda presence at any match I've been to with the exception of the Brandywell in Derry but the PSNI don't go around that area which results in plenty of the locals throwing bottles from the graveyard on a hill.

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

i can assure you there has been incidents and firms in the league of ireland for years,mainly the bohs soccer casuals and rover casuals.i have witnessed first hand many brawls from cork to limerick to inchicore.

Aside from Bohs and Rovers firms the rest of the League just have schooligans (teenage knackers) with Bohs and Rovers having the bigger groups. The incidents you mention in the likes of Limerick and include Sligo, Galway, Longford, Athlone, etc... are usually just local knackers looking for a scuffle.

FUNKY LOVER

Gavin shels wrote: »

Never reported by the Irish media as it's usually not known by the majority of the public just by word of mouth, usually not mainly incidents like that usually just between Rovers and Bohs and when they have some Scottish or Welsh hooligans over.

I can say in all my years supporting Shels home and away I think I've seen one arrest in the last 8 years, also been to a couple of Bohs and Rovers derbies in Philsboro and never seen an arrest. Always a reasonable garda presence at any match I've been to with the exception of the Brandywell in Derry but the PSNI don't go around that area which results in plenty of the locals throwing bottles from the graveyard on a hill.




Aside from Bohs and Rovers firms the rest of the League just have schooligans (teenage knackers) with Bohs and Rovers having the bigger groups. The incidents you mention in the likes of Limerick and include Sligo, Galway, Longford, Athlone, etc... are usually just local knackers looking for a scuffle.

no mate i mean i have seen first hand the bohs casulas get into fights in cork limerick inchicore dundalk drogheda etc.cork have a bit of a crew aswell.

frantic190

Sligo have a bit of a firm aswell, its only small now and probably under a different name but the Sligo Rovers Boot Boys (think thats what they were called) were notorious in the 70s anyway, my dad told me one of them brought a full size sword into a match in Tolka Park 30 or 40 years ago.
There is a book about them coming out.

But there is rarely trouble at Bohs and Rovers games, most of the lads who would be getting into proper fights are either banned or off at an organised fight a mile or two down the road.

I witnessed plenty of this when I was living in England, but unlike our police (except for a select few) the English police know how to handle the hooligans in England if anything kicks off during a match.

FUNKY LOVER

probably been posted before but its a video of bohs and rovers having a go at eachother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSy0lxfWWMo

stovelid

I hope that life in the casuals works out for them as they certainly won't get far in the cut-throat world of effective keg throwing.

OPENROAD

Kingp35 wrote: »

This stuff does happen all the time. Sure my own club Leeds are always getting into scuffles with away fans. It's never very serious but I see it nearly everytime I go over. The media's beloved Man Utd are on of the worst of the lot for getting into fights. You just don't hear about unless it happens inside the ground.

Don't kid yourself, fighting between football happens is as ripe today as it always has been.

I attend matches on a very very regular basis and also attend away matches when I can get tickets, and I drink in the surrounding areas, I have yet to see any serious trouble and I have been attending matches for year, I have no doubt that fighting does take place just like I'm sure their are incidents here in Ireland. Thankfully any trouble that takes place is NOTHING like it was, for that you have to go elsewhere in Europe but that receives zero coverage here.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

OPENROAD wrote: »

I attend matches on a very very regular basis and also attend away matches when I can get tickets, and I drink in the surrounding areas, I have yet to see any serious trouble and I have been attending matches for year, I have no doubt that fighting does take place just like I'm sure their are incidents here in Ireland. Thankfully any trouble that takes place is NOTHING like it was, for that you have to go elsewhere in Europe but that receives zero coverage here.

Arsenal aren't known for having a big firm though, are they?
I could see them getting lost in the London mix of Chelsea, West Ham, Millwall and Spurs in terms of that.

OPENROAD

baz2009 wrote: »

Arsenal aren't known for having a big firm though, are they?
I could see them getting lost in the London mix of Chelsea, West Ham, Millwall and Spurs in terms of that.

Thankfully we don't and the atmosphere at matches is very very friendly, but away games is often a better indication of trouble, and again I have seen little or none.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure if you want to find trouble you will get it, but the impression you get from sections of Irish people is that their is trouble at English matches week in week out, this is usually from people who have never been to England let alone gone to a game. The reputation from a time gone by is still very much attached to English club fans as many will testify to when they travel in Europe and some people here are also guilty of that.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I've only heard of one incident at a agem that I was at, it wasn't at the game it was in the city centre after it, I think. United v City in '07, supposedly some United fans got pissed off at City gloating on a bus and ran on and kicked fook out of them.
City fans also tried to get into the pub we were in before the game, apparently. We saw a bit of a scuffle outside but presumed that it was just some fella drunk off his tits.

Gavin "shels"

baz2009 wrote: »

Arsenal aren't known for having a big firm though, are they?

They have The Gooners, don't think they've been up to much in years but sure there's still some attending matches, etc...

frantic190

OPENROAD wrote: »

Thankfully we don't and the atmosphere at matches is very very friendly, but away games is often a better indication of trouble, and again I have seen little or none.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure if you want to find trouble you will get it, but the impression you get from sections of Irish people is that their is trouble at English matches week in week out, this is usually from people who have never been to England let alone gone to a game. The reputation from a time gone by is still very much attached to English club fans as many will testify to when they travel in Europe and some people here are also guilty of that.

Never had any trouble at Arsenal to be fair (and I have easily been to 100-150 matches while living there), its just a certain few teams that have the big trouble makers and lets just say there will be murder after some Championship matches this season

Same over here, most matches you'd go to have a friendly atomsphere, few teams have attracted unwanted trouble makers like those certain clubs in England.

therecklessone

Gavin shels wrote: »

They have The Gooners, don't think they've been up to much in years but sure there's still some attending matches, etc...

They have a small but active firm called The Herd (and a youth, or "yoof", wing called The Herd Youth)

I've seen them in action a few times, one of their biggest results was "taking" the pub I drink in north of White Hart Lane at around 2 in the afternoon the day we beat them 5-1 in the Carling Cup SF...the OB parked conveniently around the corner watching two other pubs took a leisurely stroll across the road, sewed the lads up and marched them across to the car park of Sainsburys were they were kept until just before kick off. I'm fairly certain the lads got points on their nectar card for that "win" :pac:

Their yoof wing claimed a result a couple of years ago over the Yid Army yoof after a derby game (possibly 2 years ago IIRC), it kicked off near Kings Cross in a pre-arranged meet. I'm told they handled themselves very well.

I've also seen a few cases of handbags between them and various elements of Spurs firms in pubs on their manor over the years, all close enough to Highbury/Emirates.

OPENROAD

therecklessone wrote: »

I've also seen a few cases of handbags between them and various elements of Spurs firms in pubs on their manor over the years, all close enough to Highbury/Emirates.

Thankfully it was not in any of the pubs I frequent on match days over the years

Have to say I would not consider them real Arsenal fans.

Kingp35

OPENROAD wrote: »

I attend matches on a very very regular basis and also attend away matches when I can get tickets, and I drink in the surrounding areas, I have yet to see any serious trouble and I have been attending matches for year, I have no doubt that fighting does take place just like I'm sure their are incidents here in Ireland. Thankfully any trouble that takes place is NOTHING like it was, for that you have to go elsewhere in Europe but that receives zero coverage here.

Head over to Leeds v Millwall in 2 weeks at Elland Rd. I can guarantee you there will be trouble at that!

Arsenal aren't really known as having a big firm so it's not surprising you haven't seen anything. Most of the firms from the 80's are still going though and still organising fights. Leeds, Man Utd, Millwall, Cardiff, Chelsea, West Ham etc are still going.

Sure here is the website for the Leeds Service Crew
http://www.leedssc.org.uk/

lord lucan

therecklessone wrote: »

They have a small but active firm called The Herd (and a youth, or "yoof", wing called The Herd Youth)

I've seen them in action a few times, one of their biggest results was "taking" the pub I drink in north of White Hart Lane at around 2 in the afternoon the day we beat them 5-1 in the Carling Cup SF...the OB parked conveniently around the corner watching two other pubs took a leisurely stroll across the road, sewed the lads up and marched them across to the car park of Sainsburys were they were kept until just before kick off. I'm fairly certain the lads got points on their nectar card for that "win" :pac:

Their yoof wing claimed a result a couple of years ago over the Yid Army yoof after a derby game (possibly 2 years ago IIRC), it kicked off near Kings Cross in a pre-arranged meet. I'm told they handled themselves very well.

I've also seen a few cases of handbags between them and various elements of Spurs firms in pubs on their manor over the years, all close enough to Highbury/Emirates.

It's mainly all the kids now. Most of the old guys in 'The Herd' have packed it in. Most of it is handbags from the kids,they even had a bebo page with videos of them on it.:rolleyes:

Haven't seen much in the way of aggro around The Arsenal in a while. I remember being at a derby game at Highbury in 1995 and seen 2 Sp*rs fans run into the Gunners pub and bait the Gooners that were in having a few scoops. About 30 lads ran out of the boozer after them,the 2 lads got the living daylights kicked out of them!:pac:

BigBenRoeth

baz2009 wrote: »

How gay did the cameraman sound?:pac:

Very tame compared to West Ham v Millwall last year, doubt it'll make the news.

On a similar note, anyone know any good hooligan books or films?

There's a book called "Want some aggro?" that Cass was involved in writing,a west ham fan's memoirs of being a "bovver boy".
Not a bad read but towards the second half of the book every recollection of going to matches gets to be the same.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

BigBenRoeth wrote: »

There's a book called "Want some aggro?" that Cass was involved in writing,a west ham fan's memoirs of being a "bovver boy".
Not a bad read but towards the second half of the book every recollection of going to matches gets to be the same.

Yeah I read Tony O'Neills "Red Army General" and while it was interesting enough reading about the attitudes of the different clubs, it all kinda got to be the same.

DB10

baz2009 wrote: »

Arsenal aren't known for having a big firm though, are they?
I could see them getting lost in the London mix of Chelsea, West Ham, Millwall and Spurs in terms of that.

Kingp35 wrote: »

Head over to Leeds v Millwall in 2 weeks at Elland Rd. I can guarantee you there will be trouble at that!

Arsenal aren't really known as having a big firm so it's not surprising you haven't seen anything. Most of the firms from the 80's are still going though and still organising fights. Leeds, Man Utd, Millwall, Cardiff, Chelsea, West Ham etc are still going.

Sure here is the website for the Leeds Service Crew
http://www.leedssc.org.uk/

They have as big a firm as any of the clubs named, they just don't do films or books etc, so they aren't well known.

Here is their website/forum, it's a nice layout and more for old school fans as well, has all the firm stories from over the years etc.

http://www.wearetheherd.com/forum/index.php

They have had big numbers at the usual names like Cardiff in recent years. Think most have packed it in though. therecklessone has covered most of it there, he certainly wouldn't be biased anyway...:)

OPENROAD

Kingp35 wrote: »

Head over to Leeds v Millwall in 2 weeks at Elland Rd. I can guarantee you there will be trouble at that!

Arsenal aren't really known as having a big firm so it's not surprising you haven't seen anything. Most of the firms from the 80's are still going though and still organising fights. Leeds, Man Utd, Millwall, Cardiff, Chelsea, West Ham etc are still going.

Sure here is the website for the Leeds Service Crew
http://www.leedssc.org.uk/

I've also attended enough away games against teams with a so called reputation and have seen zero trouble.

Much worse trouble in other parts of Europe, very much isolated now in England. I think sometimes we like to jump on any little incident in England and blow it up while ignoring what happens elsewhere in Europe and even here for that fact.