Martin O'Neill resigns

Augmerson

So any takers for Villa to finish outside the top 10 this season?

Third_Echelon

JPA wrote: »

Are you really? A 56 year old who I suspect doesn't speak a word of English joining a squad massively dominated by English speakers?

What has Pelligrini's age got to do with it? C'mon... this has happened a good few times in the past. Capello is England manager. When he first started he was always using a translator. Trappatoni with Ireland. Ranieri when he was first at Chelsea. Benitez. Juande Ramos (didn't get a fair crack at the whip i think). Language is not a major issue and all these managers had to learn english...

Raskolnikov wrote: »

That was 6 years ago now. The top 4 has pretty much been dominated by the same teams. The only one to have broken into that position have been Chelsea, and look at how much money they needed to do it.

If Randy Lerner wants Villa to be consistently in the top 4 he'll need to spend £100 million this season and probably another £100 million next season.

Chelsea were doing ok in the few years pre-Abramovich. They finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th over those few seasons. Obviously his money catapulted them to championships, but they weren't that far away...


On the O'Neill issue.. Big loss for Villa. It seems to be a combination of a few things with regards to transfers that has caused this. Fair play to him though for sticking to his guns. If he wasn't getting the backing of the board that he needed, this may make them sit up and think. He'll pick up a good position in the next year or so i would imagine...

IamtheWalrus

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Apparently he resigned over his relations with Randy the owner. During the summer Lerner refused him permission to speak to Joe Duffy on liveline.

lol

Mars Bar

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

lol

Did you just quote yourself and the laugh at it?!

ToTheSea:

I was thinking Steve McClaren would be a good fit for the job. But just read up he joined wolfsburg in may. News must've slipped me by then.

IamtheWalrus

mars bar wrote: »

Did you just quote yourself and the laugh at it?!

Yes.

Savman

This is a disaster.

Jordonvito

Raekwon wrote: »

What are the odds of Sven-Göran Eriksson getting the job?

Sven/1

Guy:Incognito

RasTa wrote: »

Phil Brown is outside Villa park already.

Tending the garden?

Mars Bar

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Yes.

Ha, excellent.

Johner

Raskolnikov wrote: »

That was 6 years ago now. The top 4 has pretty much been dominated by the same teams. The only one to have broken into that position have been Chelsea, and look at how much money they needed to do it.

We qualified for the Champions League the season before Abramovich bought the club.

Ardent

Can't believe it. Big big blow for Villa.

LuckyLloyd

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Plenty of people on Villatalk slating MON.


I have to say, I have a feeling Lerner and Co. are the ones who have f**ked up here, I never bought int the cheesey american sh!te him and Crulak spouted.

O'neil hasn't got a hidden agenda, he wants to go down as the greatest football manager ever, Lerner wants money! I also remeber reading a few things about the Cleevland Browns, and their fans not being to happy with Lerner.

The Yanks havent got a great track record of running football clubs either! looks like Lerner could follow suit.

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Bob Bradley the fav to be new boss:rolleyes:

Ain't xenophobia grand! No English owner has ever done wrong by an English football club.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ain't xenophobia grand! No English owner has ever done wrong by an English football club.

A bit nicpicky there Lloyd. He is just saying that the American owners in the league are very unpopular at the other clubs.
Also when you look at the state he has let the Cleveland Browns get into, you do have to wonder about the man.

LeBash

Liverpool will be kicking themselves they didnt bide thier time. I think he was always going to go from the end of last season. He has been talking to the media like a man in a corner

Mr Alan

LeBash wrote: »

Liverpool will be kicking themselves they didnt bide thier time. I think he was always going to go from the end of last season. He has been talking to the media like a man in a corner

Ha ha

Melion

LeBash wrote: »

Liverpool will be kicking themselves they didnt bide thier time. I think he was always going to go from the end of last season. He has been talking to the media like a man in a corner

Im absolutely delighted he didnt do this a few weeks ago. I wouldnt have been able to see that jack in the box jumping around the sidelines at Anfield.

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

A bit nicpicky there Lloyd. He is just saying that the American owners in the league are very unpopular at the other clubs.
Also when you look at the state he has let the Cleveland Browns get into, you do have to wonder about the man.

Lerner funded the building of a great Cleveland squad on paper in 2008. He paid the big bucks to put together a number of explosive skill position players and a tasty looking defensive line. Not to mention a coach with playoff experience in Romeo. They were aired on Monday Night Football four times, and got a couple more airings on the prime time Sunday night and Thursday night slots too. Aaaaaaaaannnnnnndd then - rather inexplicably - Derek Anderson forgot how to play football and the whole thing unraveled at the seams. Cleveland were put in a position to win by their owner. But they were maxed out on the cap and stuck with QB hell after 2008, so no wonder things have been as bad as they've been since then.

Now Villa. There is some talk in this thread that O'Neill wasn't backed in the transfer market sufficiently. That is amazing to me when you consider their net spend over the past three seasons (it is much higher than Liverpool's). Yes, it doesn't compare to City, but that isn't feasible. O'Neill has been able to bring players in over the past couple of summers and add to his squad. The manager has had control, money has been invested. Again, it really isn't Lerner's fault that O'Neill is stuck in 1996 and doesn't understand the requirement for squad rotation, not his fault that O'Neill stuck rigidly to plan A when plan A had long since failed.

And all of this is before we get into how terrible the Cleveland and Birmingham markets are in terms of attendances / brand building / merchandising potential - i.e. the things that make a non billionaire club owner's life easier.

Lerner put his faith in O'Neill and O'Neill didn't get it done the way he wanted. What seems to have happened is some manifestation of O'Neill demanding the same or an increased amount of that faith going forward and Lerner concluding that he couldn't continue to offer it.

Lumping Lerner in with the buffons we're stuck with on Merseyside is beyond harsh.

LuckyLloyd

LeBash wrote: »

Liverpool will be kicking themselves they didnt bide thier time. I think he was always going to go from the end of last season. He has been talking to the media like a man in a corner

Believe me when I say I am genuinely delighted things have played out in this way. Being stuck with O'Neill would have been horrendous.

Dempsey

I'd be blaming Lerner tbh simply because they are willing to listen to offers for their important players from clubs that they are trying to finish ahead of. How does he think he's doing his manager any favours by selling the likes of Barry and Milner to Man City, another club looking to break the top 4.

I think the straw that broke the camel's back is that meeting over milner and the likely scenario that not all the money generated from the sale of Milner would be reinvested in the team whilst still maintaining the expectation to break into the top 4.

Fair play to O' Neill for not putting up with that sort of bullshít

flahavaj

Like a lot of people I used to highly rate O' Neill as a manager, I used to think that he was destined to one day manage United or Liverpool.

Then I looked at how much he has spent at Villa, I looked at the quality of his signings and in particular his insistence on buying British only, his inability to recognise the importance of the squad game, the fact that Villa have pretty much stood still depsite his large outlay of money, his stubborn faith in certain players such as Emile Heskey.

He's a good manager, no doubt about that and hasn't been a disaster at any club he has managed - far from it, in fact he's done well. But he's not half as good as some in the media make him out to be - not United or liverpoomcalibre anyway, thats for sure. I'm not sure what has happened exactly at Villa, but if its a case of O' Neill wanting more money and Lerner looking at what he has gotten for his money thus far, putting his foot down and saying "enough is enough," then I think its perfectly reasonable on the American's part.

Anyone comparing him to Liverpool's owners is a total f*cking moron tbh.

Meanwhile it look like a typically nice bit of PR cute whore-ism on O' Neill's part - walk away and he can claim he wasn't backed by the owner, when in fact he has been backed with little in the way of upward improvement at the club in the last few years.

Raekwon

Dempsey wrote: »

I'd be blaming Lerner tbh simply because they are willing to listen to offers for their important players from clubs that they are trying to finish ahead of. How does he think he's doing his manager any favours by selling the likes of Barry and Milner to Man City, another club looking to break the top 4.

I think the straw that broke the camel's back is that meeting over milner and the likely scenario that not all the money generated from the sale of Milner would be reinvested in the team whilst still maintaining the expectation to break into the top 4.

Fair play to O' Neill for not putting up with that sort of bullshít

Also add to the fact that Spurs have been sniffing around Ashley Young all summer and have reportedly tabled a £20m+ bid. Plus O'Neill stated that if Young was told then he would walk. It seems like the rug has been pulled from under him here.

LuckyLloyd

Dempsey wrote: »

I'd be blaming Lerner tbh simply because they are willing to listen to offers for their important players from clubs that they are trying to finish ahead of. How does he think he's doing his manager any favours by selling the likes of Barry and Milner to Man City, another club looking to break the top 4.

I think the straw that broke the camel's back is that meeting over milner and the likely scenario that not all the money generated from the sale of Milner would be reinvested in the team whilst still maintaining the expectation to break into the top 4.

Fair play to O' Neill for not putting up with that sort of bullshít

Barry wanted to go in 2008. The club stuck to their guns, and were rewarded with their former Captain suffering a significant drop off in production on the pitch. If I was a fan I'd be more annoyed with the people running the club if they showed no willingness to learn from recent experience. If Milner is intent on moving on, the smart play is to milk as much of his departure as possible. It is very rare indeed that players come back to a dressing room they assumed they were leaving behind and set about their task with the same gusto.

Moreover, the one character in this drama who has shown no interest in learning from past experience is O'Neill. To tail off so badly in 2008 / 09 was unfortunate, to suffer something similar one season on (20 points from a closing available 39 I believe) is surely unforgivable.

LuckyLloyd

flahavaj wrote: »

Like a lot of people I used to highly rate O' Neill as a manager, I used to think that he was destined to one day manage United or Liverpool.

Then I looked at how much he has spent at Villa, I looked at the quality of his signings and in particular his insistence on buying British only, his inability to recognise the importance of the squad game, the fact that Villa have pretty much stood still depsite his large outlay of money, his stubborn faith in certain players such as Emile Heskey.

He's a good manager, no doubt about that and hasn't been a disaster at any club he has managed - far from it, in fact he's done well. But he's not half as good as some in the media make him out to be - not United or liverpoomcalibre anyway, thats for sure. I'm not sure what has happened exactly at Villa, but if its a case of O' Neill wanting more money and Lerner looking at what he has gotten for his money thus far, putting his foot down and saying "enough is enough," then I think its perfectly reasonable on the American's part.

Anyone comparing him to Liverpool's owners is a total f*cking moron tbh.

Meanwhile it look like a typically nice bit of PR cute whore-ism on O' Neill's part - walk away and he can claim he wasn't backed by the owner, when in fact he has been backed with little in the way of upward improvement at the club in the last few years.

Needless to say, agree 100%. Nail on the head with the bolded bit too.

Melion

I honestly cringed anytime i saw MON linked with the Liverpool job. As stubborn as Rafa was, he was nothing compared to MON. Horrible rigid long ball football and an absolute refusal to change his ways. Hopefully he ends up at a championship side, thats about his level.

invinciblePRSTV

Raekwon wrote: »

Also add to the fact that Spurs have been sniffing around Ashley Young all summer and have reportedly tabled a £20m+ bid. Plus O'Neill stated that if Young was told then he would walk. It seems like the rug has been pulled from under him here.

Let's wait and see what the full story is before we start giving out about the chairman. The Villa has taken a kicking in the media tonite with plenty of inferred blame on the owner and predictions of doom and gloom for the new season.

I just can't see Lerner sanctioning the removal of MON, Milner & Ash Young in a few short days, because if it does then he is in instant Doug territory.

Raekwon

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Let's wait and see what the full story is before we start giving out about the chairman. The Villa has taken a kicking in the media tonite with plenty of inferred blame on the owner and predictions of doom and gloom for the new season.

I just can't see Lerner sanctioning the removal of MON, Milner & Ash Young in a few short days, because if it does then he is in instant Doug territory.

Yeah that is fair enough but the timing of this whole thing just seems to point to one huge bust up which resulted in MON suddenly walking out........I mean who walks out on a club if they have 100% backing 5 days before the start of a season (no Keegan jokes please!)

thomond2006

I bet Mark Hughes is pissed that he took the Fulham job!

flahavaj

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Overheard a chap upstairs in the canteen saying "I'd say he'll just take a year off before he walks into the ManUtd job next summer".

Please God let that be true!

The worst thing is it actually could happen.:eek:

Dempsey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Barry wanted to go in 2008. The club stuck to their guns, and were rewarded with their former Captain suffering a significant drop off in production on the pitch. If I was a fan I'd be more annoyed with the people running the club if they showed no willingness to learn from recent experience. If Milner is intent on moving on, the smart play is to milk as much of his departure as possible. It is very rare indeed that players come back to a dressing room they assumed they were leaving behind and set about their task with the same gusto.

Moreover, the one character in this drama who has shown no interest in learning from past experience is O'Neill. To tail off so badly in 2008 / 09 was unfortunate, to suffer something similar one season on (20 points from a closing available 39 I believe) is surely unforgivable.

Set an example and allow MON to stick him in the reserves as a point about not wanting to sell players to your rivals and certainly not going to sell them if they decide that they dont want to play well for the club anymore. Ever hear of forcing a player to honour his contract and/or if you want to flog him, you shouldnt sell him to rivals.

Instead Lerner cashed in, strengthening Man City's squad, weakening his own and still expecting the team to achieve its targets. And now he's looking to repeat that process again this summer whilst maintaining the expectation of a top 4 finish

MON's style has been evident at every club he has managed. All the complaints I've read in this thread about his management style are the very same as his time at Celtic. The high spending, the big wage bill, the desire to control transfer policy, the lack of rotation yet he got results and at the time, both clubs were very happy with his performances. Its only in hindsight that the daggers have come out.

MON style is very much old school but it is effective and people hire him for the end result not how he achieves it. Lerner's handling of the Barry situation was naive, the handling of the Milner situation was just stupid and now all Villa supporters will suffer because of the timing and the next manager will more than likely want to overhaul his squad.

LuckyLloyd

Dempsey wrote: »

Set an example and allow MON to stick him in the reserves as a point about not wanting to sell players to your rivals and certainly not going to sell them if they decide that they dont want to play well for the club anymore. Ever hear of forcing a player to honour his contract and/or if you want to flog him, you shouldnt sell him to rivals.

Instead Lerner cashed in, strengthening Man City's squad, weakening his own and still expecting the team to achieve its targets. And now he's looking to repeat that process again this summer whilst maintaining the expectation of a top 4 finish

MON's style has been evident at every club he has managed. All the complaints I've read in this thread about his management style are the very same as his time at Celtic. The high spending, the big wage bill, the desire to control transfer policy, the lack of rotation yet he got results and at the time, both clubs were very happy with his performances. Its only in hindsight that the daggers have come out.

MON style is very much old school but it is effective and people hire him for the end result not how he achieves it. Lerner's handling of the Barry situation was naive, the handling of the Milner situation was just stupid and now all Villa supporters will suffer because of the timing and the next manager will more than likely want to overhaul his squad.

Give me some examples of high profile transfer situations where a club has done that?

And no - one has ever questioned his record at Celtic. He got it done in Scotland. Of course, Scotland is a two horse race with a guaranteed tilt at Europe every year...

Dempsey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Give me some examples of high profile transfer situations where a club has done that?

And no - one has ever questioned his record at Celtic. He got it done in Scotland. Of course, Scotland is a two horse race with a guaranteed tilt at Europe every year...

Gabriel Heinze, wanted to join Liverpool, United flogged him to Real Madrid
Fabregas is being held to his contract by Arsenal at the moment

My point about his time at Celtic is that his management style was exactly the same and when Villa picked him up, nobody was complaining then but now they are, hours after he quit.

flahavaj

Dempsey wrote: »

My point about his time at Celtic is that his management style was exactly the same and when Villa picked him up, nobody was complaining then but now they are, hours after he quit.

In fairness lots of people hae been consistently questioning O' Neill on this forum for quite a few years now.

Dempsey

flahavaj wrote: »

In fairness lots of people hae been consistently questioning O' Neill on this forum for quite a few years now.

Every manager has been consistently criticized by fans on this forum :pac:

eagle eye

flahavaj wrote: »

Like a lot of people I used to highly rate O' Neill as a manager, I used to think that he was destined to one day manage United or Liverpool.

Then I looked at how much he has spent at Villa, I looked at the quality of his signings and in particular his insistence on buying British only, his inability to recognise the importance of the squad game, the fact that Villa have pretty much stood still depsite his large outlay of money, his stubborn faith in certain players such as Emile Heskey.

He's a good manager, no doubt about that and hasn't been a disaster at any club he has managed - far from it, in fact he's done well. But he's not half as good as some in the media make him out to be - not United or liverpoomcalibre anyway, thats for sure. I'm not sure what has happened exactly at Villa, but if its a case of O' Neill wanting more money and Lerner looking at what he has gotten for his money thus far, putting his foot down and saying "enough is enough," then I think its perfectly reasonable on the American's part.

Anyone comparing him to Liverpool's owners is a total f*cking moron tbh.

Meanwhile it look like a typically nice bit of PR cute whore-ism on O' Neill's part - walk away and he can claim he wasn't backed by the owner, when in fact he has been backed with little in the way of upward improvement at the club in the last few years.

Jeebus you can talk some sh*te.
Villa were still on an upward curve last year in my estimation anyways. They were in the fight for 4th up until they lost to Man City in the 2nd last week of the season. They managed to get to a Cup final where they lost to Manchester United and the FA Cup semi-final where they lost to Chelsea.
This all after losing Gareth Barry who was considered their best player by a lot of people. He lost Laursen to retirement, Curtis Davies on a long term injury. At the start of last season Luke Young lost his father and was in a very bad state over it.
He brought in Dunne, Collins and Warnock last season and they were three quarters of the 4th stingiest defense in the league.
He brought in Stewart Downing who was injured when he bought him and came into the team around Christmas and really improved as the season wore on. He looked to the future by bringing in Fabian Delph.
These were all good signings, he did spend 3.5 mill on Habib Beye which didn't work out but overall he did brilliantly in hindsight.
He put Milner in the centre of the park and he was immense for them. His only problem last year was a consistent top level goalscorer and maybe a bit of depth.

Anybody saying that Villa had stalled is absolutely nuts.

As far as Randy Lerner goes, I really don't know enough about the situation to comment on him. I'm sure we will hear things over the coming weeks about what actually happened. If its a case of the best players being sold and him not getting the money to reinvest or having a player he doesn't want in the squad being signed then Martin O'Neill did the right thing imo. I was listening to a local Villa reporter who mentioned that O'Neill when confronted with transfer rumours last week was telling reporters that those questions should be directed to the board which suggests that he had no input on transfers anymore but he didn't quit last week.
I think its a case of something major happening like the Friedel thing or an Ashley Young bid being accepted or Ireland being agreed upon as part of the Milner deal. Or maybe even all of that happening.

Melion

Dempsey wrote: »

Gabriel Heinze, wanted to join Liverpool, United flogged him to Real Madrid
Fabregas is being held to his contract by Arsenal at the moment

My point about his time at Celtic is that his management style was exactly the same and when Villa picked him up, nobody was complaining then but now they are, hours after he quit.

Long ball works in Scotland, it doesnt work in the Premiership.

Wolfe Tone

Melion wrote: »

Long ball works in Scotland, it doesnt work in the Premiership.

It works fine, just doesnt win you it.

LuckyLloyd

Dempsey wrote: »

Gabriel Heinze, wanted to join Liverpool, United flogged him to Real Madrid
Fabregas is being held to his contract by Arsenal at the moment

My point about his time at Celtic is that his management style was exactly the same and when Villa picked him up, nobody was complaining then but now they are, hours after he quit.

So Heinze left, to a club that are essentially a rival of Utd in many respects. As for Fabregas, he is not being "held to his contract". His contract has years to run. There is an acceptance that he is gone next summer as Barcelona will be able to focus their transfer funds on securing his signature.

It simply isn't as cut and dried as you like to think it is. Rightly or wrongly, players manufacture the market available as they will chose to "honour" their contracts if the only club in for them is one they don't wish to play for. As such, there often isn't an option for a club to sell a player to a non rival instead of the club that is in for their player. Their choices can often be:

- sell to rival for astronomical fee;
- block deal and keep sulky player;
- accept greatly reduced fee from other club sulky player might play for;

everdead.ie

Have to ask how's is villas wage bill so high 10 million higher then spurs wage bill and we have a big squad? Some fringe players must be on massive money !

Dempsey

Melion wrote: »

Long ball works in Scotland, it doesnt work in the Premiership.

I'm ****ing sick already of this SPL put downs, the point is about his ****ing management style, not Celtic and not the standard of ****ing football. If you cant grasp that, dont quote me and post something stupid and irrelevant to my point

Anyways, while I'm posting

It worked in Europe somehow and Celtic beat several "superior" EPL teams along the way :rolleyes:

Most of the EPL clubs play kick and rush football, he finished 6th doing it so I'd say it has a fair amount of success, wouldnt you??

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

Jeebus you can talk some sh*te.
Villa were still on an upward curve last year in my estimation anyways. They were in the fight for 4th up until they lost to Man City in the 2nd last week of the season. They managed to get to a Cup final where they lost to Manchester United and the FA Cup semi-final where they lost to Chelsea.
This all after losing Gareth Barry who was considered their best player by a lot of people. He lost Laursen to retirement, Curtis Davies on a long term injury. At the start of last season Luke Young lost his father and was in a very bad state over it.
He brought in Dunne, Collins and Warnock last season and they were three quarters of the 4th stingiest defense in the league.
He brought in Stewart Downing who was injured when he bought him and came into the team around Christmas and really improved as the season wore on. He looked to the future by bringing in Fabian Delph.
These were all good signings, he did spend 3.5 mill on Habib Beye which didn't work out but overall he did brilliantly in hindsight.
He put Milner in the centre of the park and he was immense for them. His only problem last year was a consistent top level goalscorer and maybe a bit of depth.

Anybody saying that Villa had stalled is absolutely nuts.

As far as Randy Lerner goes, I really don't know enough about the situation to comment on him. I'm sure we will hear things over the coming weeks about what actually happened. If its a case of the best players being sold and him not getting the money to reinvest or having a player he doesn't want in the squad being signed then Martin O'Neill did the right thing imo. I was listening to a local Villa reporter who mentioned that O'Neill when confronted with transfer rumours last week was telling reporters that those questions should be directed to the board which suggests that he had no input on transfers anymore but he didn't quit last week.
I think its a case of something major happening like the Friedel thing or an Ashley Young bid being accepted or Ireland being agreed upon as part of the Milner deal. Or maybe even all of that happening.

2008 / 9 Aston Villa 6th 62pts
2009 / 10 Aston Villa 6th 64pts

They played lower division opposition in rounds 4 / 5 / 6 of the FA Cup and were handled with ease by Chelsea in the semi - final.

Melion

Dempsey wrote: »

I'm ****ing sick already of this SPL put downs, the point is about his ****ing management style, not Celtic and not the standard of ****ing football. If you cant grasp that, dont quote me and post something stupid and irrelevant to my point

Anyways, while I'm posting

It worked in Europe somehow and Celtic beat several "superior" EPL teams along the way :rolleyes:

Most of the EPL clubs play kick and rush football, he finished 6th doing it so I'd say it has a fair amount of success, wouldnt you??

Wind your neck in there. You said his style was the same in Scotland. I said he plays long ball, thats a fact, sorry if you cant see that. I didnt put down the SPL or Celtic.

Finishing 6th isnt succesful im afraid.

Raekwon

everdead.ie wrote: »

Have to ask how's is villas wage bill so high 10 million higher then spurs wage bill and we have a big squad? Some fringe players must be on massive money !

Yeah, squad players like Heskey, Sidwell, Davies etc are on in and around the £50k mark per week.

m@cc@

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Chelsea were doing ok in the few years pre-Abramovich. They finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th over those few seasons. Obviously his money catapulted them to championships, but they weren't that far away...

Johner wrote: »

We qualified for the Champions League the season before Abramovich bought the club.

Just to counter, Chelsea were heavily in debt before Abramovich took over (around £80m I believe). Without the fan base of the larger clubs, they wouldn't have sustained their position in the top 4.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

2008 / 9 Aston Villa 6th 62pts
2009 / 10 Aston Villa 6th 64pts

They played lower division opposition in rounds 4 / 5 / 6 of the FA Cup and were handled with ease by Chelsea in the semi - final.

My point exactly, they had more points in the league and got further in both cups. Thats progress is it not?

m@cc@

eagle eye wrote: »

My point exactly, they had more points in the league and got further in both cups. Thats progress is it not?

I'm a MON fan but 2 points improvement over the course of a season is nothing.

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

My point exactly, they had more points in the league and got further in both cups. Thats progress is it not?

So if they got 62 points this year and reached the quarters of both cups they'd be in decline?

Dempsey

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So Heinze left, to a club that are essentially a rival of Utd in many respects. As for Fabregas, he is not being "held to his contract". His contract has years to run. There is an acceptance that he is gone next summer as Barcelona will be able to focus their transfer funds on securing his signature.

That was Ferguson's reasoning at the time, United may or may not play Real Madrid in Europe, they definitely will play Liverpool at least twice in a season. Big difference.

You are making assumptions with the Fabregas situation. The banks could be influencing decisions by next season for all we know. Also, Fabregas is being held to his contract, the fact that it has years to run keeps Arsenal in the dominant position over the player's future.

No it isnt cut and dry, I know that but the principle point is that Lerner is selling players, his prize assets, to a club that he is direct competition and still expects the manager to compete for 4th. That strategy has some serious flaws in it and MON most likely walked because of it.

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

My point exactly, they had more points in the league and got further in both cups. Thats progress is it not?

Yes, it's progress. But it is minor progress ultimately. The league position is essentially the same, and when they eventually got tough draws at the money stages of both cups they were dispatched by the big boys when it counted.

Better than the season before. But not by enough to significantly sway the assessment.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, it's progress. But it is minor progress ultimately. The league position is essentially the same, and when they eventually got tough draws at the money stages of both cups they were dispatched by the big boys when it counted.

Better than the season before. But not by enough to significantly sway the assessment.

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'm a MON fan but 2 points improvement over the course of a season is nothing.

I understand that but there were two more clubs spending a whole pile of cash last season. Redknapp spent big at Tottenham in his first 18 months there and City spent a fortune last summer too.

To end up with the same number of points with two squads that were well behind you the season before means that Villa had to improve last season. They did that and ended up with 2 points more and had two excellent cup runs.