Martin O'Neill resigns

Clanket

Ok Helix, everyone knows you despise MON. Is there nothing nice you can say about him?

Surely you must agree that he has done good for Villa over his 4/5 seasons?

invinciblePRSTV

Jazzy wrote: »

if you look at your immediate rivals (spurs), they have taken the biggest gambles but through thick and thin (from juande ramos' tenure to harry redknapps cl qualified team) they have finally achieved. what do you think it will take for villa to get there ?

But Spurs have been spending cash for over a decade, just like other teams mentioned repeatedly in this thread. Villa have been doing so for only 4 years after years in the doldrums. Yet here we are duking at the top end in spite of our handicap of the Ellis years.

Lerners Villa are still playing catch up, and we're doing it well.

Helix

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

Ok Helix, everyone knows you despise MON. Is there nothing nice you can say about him?

Surely you must agree that he has done good for Villa over his 4/5 seasons?

He did the bare minimum not to be sacked, but his mates in the media perpetuated the myth that he did something special. He didnt.

Big ron, brian little, john gregory, even david o'leary... All did more when you look at who they were working under and the money they had at their disposal

Dempsey

Helix wrote: »

Villa are the biggest club he'll ever manage. Hes not fit for anything higher up, thats blatantly clear from the last few years

Celtic are a far bigger club than Aston Villa

Esse85

Dempsey wrote: »

Celtic are a far bigger club than Aston Villa

Oh FFS, here we go...

Jazzy

ntlbell wrote: »

So discuss the post, not the poster, you're here long enough.

The fact is Rafa left, liverpool out of the CL out of the top 4 and potentially with the money been spent by other teams leaving liverpool out these comps losing a lot of money in a bad situation, THIS IS FACT.

If it's not, please explain why it's not without atacking me.

and walked into the top available job in europe. sure, inter would hire a loser like that after the season they had. rafa also won 2 cups and were runners up in 08/09... and from what im reading he did that by spending less then martin o neil.
do you think martin o neils villa could beat real madrid 4 - 0 and 1 - 0?
do you think o neil has the tactical nuance to get a team containing smicer, traore and co. to the pinnacle of club football?
do you think o neil could have won la liga twice when real madrid where at the height of their spending adventures?

if your answer is yes to any of these then ive got 3 words for ya... derp de derr

if o neil was better then rafa then how come over the past 4 years he hasnt been linked to any club (except liverpool.. and even then im about to make that redundant) that are in the champions league? how come liverpool have consistently been better then villa both domestically and abroad for the past half a decade (sure, last season they finished a solitary point above us).

did you fail to see all these reasons ntlbell or do you just not like them or do they mean f-all or what? nope. more then likely you've just seen another chance to jump in and do some flame baiting and in you go arse first spouting all sorts of irrelevant crap. oh sorry, do you not like that? well that goes part and parcel with your posting style. if your going to make up crap then that imaginary handfull of feces might land right back in your face.
dont like it landing in your face? then dont post crap in the first place. but i dunno, you might just be over-sensitive... again the lines on this are very very blurry

Helix

Dempsey wrote: »

Celtic are a far bigger club than Aston Villa

Loooooooool

ntlbell

Jazzy wrote: »

and walked into the top available job in europe. sure, inter would hire a loser like that after the season they had. rafa also won 2 cups and were runners up in 08/09... and from what im reading he did that by spending less then martin o neil.
do you think martin o neils villa could beat real madrid 4 - 0 and 1 - 0?
do you think o neil has the tactical nuance to get a team containing smicer, traore and co. to the pinnacle of club football?
do you think o neil could have won la liga twice when real madrid where at the height of their spending adventures?

if your answer is yes to any of these then ive got 3 words for ya... derp de derr

if o neil was better then rafa then how come over the past 4 years he hasnt been linked to any club (except liverpool.. and even then im about to make that redundant) that are in the champions league? how come liverpool have consistently been better then villa both domestically and abroad for the past half a decade (sure, last season they finished a solitary point above us).

did you fail to see all these reasons ntlbell or do you just not like them or do they mean f-all or what? nope. more then likely you've just seen another chance to jump in and do some flame baiting and in you go arse first spouting all sorts of irrelevant crap. oh sorry, do you not like that? well that goes part and parcel with your posting style. if your going to make up crap then that imaginary handfull of feces might land right back in your face.
dont like it landing in your face? then dont post crap in the first place. but i dunno, you might just be over-sensitive... again the lines on this are very very blurry

If it's not, please explain why it's not without atacking me.

none of that goes against anything i said in the post.

Dempsey

Helix wrote: »

Loooooooool

Well, that certainly put me in my place and proves that Aston Villa are a bigger club :rolleyes:

TheSpecialOne

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1301712/Buy-buy-Martin-How-ONeill-spent-120million-years-Aston-Villa.html

Villa's net spend under O'Neill amounted to 81.85 Mill according to the mail

Helix

ntlbell wrote: »

If it's not, please explain why it's not without atacking me.

Youre being silly. Overrated as rafa is, hes like alex fergusson to mons atillio lombardo

Helix

Dempsey wrote: »

Well, that certainly put me in my place and proves that Aston Villa are a bigger club :rolleyes:

It was the only realistic response, lets be honest

Its like saying some bloke on fair city is a bigger actor than brad pitt coz hes on the telly more

Dempsey

Helix wrote: »

It was the only realistic response, lets be honest

realistic response from a Villa supporter but still deluded

IamtheWalrus

Savman wrote: »

Threads like this bring out the worst of the soccer forum tbh, I cringe for some of the thinly veiled insults and jibes between posters under the illusion they are having some kind of educated discussion.

The topic is Martin O Neill's resignation, the reasons therein and the implications for his career and Aston Villa's season. Some of the posters here might be better served as roadkill in the Thunderdome, perhaps release some tension.

Agreed and hence, I will create a new thread.

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

Would you have trusted him to spend 100m? I wouldnt, and I dont think randy did

Based on his transfer dealings last summer you would have to trust him.

Do you think he did badly last summer?

Helix

Dempsey wrote: »

realistic response from a Villa supporter but still deluded

Fulham are a bigger club than celtic

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

I think he did badly overall when viewed as total spend of fee plus wages

Looooool.

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

Looooool.

80m+ net spend with about twice that on wages of signings? 240m+ for that squad?

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

80m+ net spend with about twice that on wages of signings? 240m+ for that squad?

There is no use talking to you at all. How much did Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham and Manchester City spend over the same period?

They all spent more than O'Neill so he had Villa punching well above their weight.

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no use talking to you at all. How much did Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham and Manchester City spend over the same period?

They all spent more than O'Neill so he had Villa punching well above their weight.

Weve outspent them all bar bar city id estimate, with net plus wages

Villain

Helix wrote: »

80m+ net spend with about twice that on wages of signings? 240m+ for that squad?

Helis you are living in fantasy world IMO, you seem to think Villa should be able to sign the top players in the world without paying the going rate for wages, you need to be realistic because you think we should be signing players that won't come to Villa.

No manager has a perfect transfer record, MON signed the best players we could get and he has built a young team with a lot of UK players.

Villa will never meet your expectations unless we find some Arab who wants to do a City on it, but you keep dreaming.

Villain

Helix wrote: »

Weve outspent them all bar bar city id estimate, with net plus wages

Over how many years? Go over 7 years and see what the stats show?

Helix

Villain wrote: »

Over how many years? Go over 7 years and see what the stats show?

Mon was our manager for 7 years was he?

Helix

Villain wrote: »

Helis you are living in fantasy world IMO, you seem to think Villa should be able to sign the top players in the world without paying the going rate for wages, you need to be realistic because you think we should be signing players that won't come to Villa.

No manager has a perfect transfer record, MON signed the best players we could get and he has built a young team with a lot of UK players.

Villa will never meet your expectations unless we find some Arab who wants to do a City on it, but you keep dreaming.

We signed championship players on champions league wages

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

Weve outspent them all bar bar city id estimate, with net plus wages

Prove it.

Esse85

Villain wrote: »

No manager has a perfect transfer record, MON signed the best players we could get and he has built a young team with a lot of UK players.

Davies £10m, Downing £12m, Reo-Coker £8.5m, Cuellar £8m, Warnock £7.5m, Shorey £3.5m, Heskey £3.5m, Harewood £4m.

That £55m could of been spent a lot better, and that's not even taking into account the silly wages them guys are on.

Villain

Helix wrote: »

Mon was our manager for 7 years was he?

Oh FFS.

So it doesn't matter what state the club was in before or how much had been spent previous to him?

So once again answer me this, if McCarthy spends more than Sir Alex over the next two seasons Wolves should finish higher than UTD, it doesn't matter what point he is starting from?? That's your logic

event

Villain wrote: »

Net spend net spend blah blah.

So if McCarthy has a net spend higher than Sir Alex for the next two years wolves should finish higher than Utd yea?

That's what ppl seem to be saying or have they no knowledge of where Villa were when MON took over???

yep, wolves have spent more this summer than everton, so therefore if they dont finish above everton, mccarthy is failing

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

Prove it.

On my mobile so cant, instead, you prove otherwise

2 years agos wages were 72m, 10m more than spurs. Last years' were higher after new signings and new deals. Then theres the fact that only city have higher net spend, with united, arsenal and spuds all being tiny

Helix

Villain wrote: »

Oh FFS.

So it doesn't matter what state the club was in before or how much had been spent previous to him?

So once again answer me this, if McCarthy spends more than Sir Alex over the next two seasons Wolves should finish higher than UTD, it doesn't matter what point he is starting from?? That's your logic

Is our squad worth over a quarter of a billion? Thats the net outlay on them

Villain

Esse85 wrote: »

Davies £10m, Downing £12m, Reo-Coker £8.5m, Cuellar £8m, Warnock £7.5m, Shorey £3.5m, Heskey £3.5m, Harewood £4m.

That £55m could of been spent a lot better, and that's not even taking into account the silly wages them guys are on.

Again you are assuming we can attract better players, also we needed numbers so signing 2 players for 27.5m wouldn't have been option and again I'm not sure how many players at that price tag would want to come, you need to be realistic

Villain

Helix wrote: »

Is our squad worth over a quarter of a billion? Thats the net outlay on them

Answer the question?

Krusader

in fairness Cuellar and Warnock haven't been woeful signing like the rest
Downing was injured up until November, so he was off the pace, I'll be expecting better from him this season

Helix

Villain wrote: »

we needed numbers

Yet we signed players we hardly used

Helix

Villain wrote: »

Answer the question?

Why? Its a retarded question that doesnt relate to my point. The money spent shouldve brought far better value

Esse85

Im stating that for £55m, that better players could of been found than that bunch mentioned there. We can easily attract better than that lot. Just look at the clubs they came from. Bar Cuellar, they all have the English tax.

Villain

Helix wrote: »

Why? Its a retarded question that doesnt relate to my point. The money spent shouldve brought far better value

It's exactly the same logic you are using.

Esse85

Crosáidí wrote: »

in fairness Cuellar and Warnock haven't been woeful signing like the rest
Downing was injured up until November, so he was off the pace, I'll be expecting better from him this season

Warnock was shocking from Xmas onwards, the majority of the goals we conceded came down his side through bad positioning, lack of pace and being caught under a high ball at the far post.

invinciblePRSTV

I think it was the summer 2008 & Jan 2009 signings that did it for O' Neill. Cueller, Davies, Sidwell, Shorey & Heskey cost 30+m sterling in transfer fees and again in wages. This was an awful waste money at a time when the squad was tiny and needed decent reinforcements.

I think the recruits in summer 2009 were of a far better standard by and large.

Helix

Villain wrote: »

Again you are assuming we can attract better players, also we needed numbers so signing 2 players for 27.5m wouldn't have been option and again I'm not sure how many players at that price tag would want to come, you need to be realistic

Spurs can do it spending less on fees and wages. Wigan have done it. Sunderland have done it. Fulham have done it

When did I mention paying 27m for a player btw?

CrackisWhack

Have to say Helix, you've completely taken MON and his positive input in the club for granted. Yes he's made some bad buys, who hasnt? Sir Alex, Benitez?

You're in for a shock this season, because we won't find a manager of his calibre for the foreseeable future.

Helix

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Have to say Helix, you've completely taken MON and his positive input in the club for granted. Yes he's made some bad buys, who hasnt? Sir Alex, Benitez?

You're in for a shock this season, because we won't find a manager of his calibre for the foreseeable future.

His calibre me hoop

eagle eye

Esse85 wrote: »

Im stating that for £55m, that better players could of been found than that bunch mentioned there. We can easily attract better than that lot. Just look at the clubs they came from. Bar Cuellar, they all have the English tax.

Every club brings in players that don't live up to expectations. Off the top of my head I'll go with Nani, Hargreaves, Anderson, Tosic at United, Babel, Pennant, Dossena, Riera at Liverpool, Arsenal don't spend much compared to others on big players as they spend a fortune on youth but still Eduardo, Walcott and Rosicky haven't live up to expectations, Spurs then well there are loads but the ones that stand out are Bentley, Woodgate, Hutton, Chimbonda, Pavyluchenko, Dos Santos. City have their fair share too with Santa Cruz, Jo, Benjani, Caicedo and Lescott among them.

eagle eye

Helix wrote: »

On my mobile so cant, instead, you prove otherwise

2 years agos wages were 72m, 10m more than spurs. Last years' were higher after new signings and new deals. Then theres the fact that only city have higher net spend, with united, arsenal and spuds all being tiny

I have no intention of doing that until I see your figures.

whatawaster

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no use talking to you at all. How much did Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham and Manchester City spend over the same period?

They all spent more than O'Neill so he had Villa punching well above their weight.

you can find one of my posts a couple of pages back which shows how much Liverpool spent under Benitez - 70m net in 6 years, or 11m per season.

O'Neill's figures i don't have handy, but from memory they are significantly more than that

invinciblePRSTV

eagle eye wrote: »

Every club brings in players that don't live up to expectations. Off the top of my head I'll go with Nani, Hargreaves, Anderson, Tosic at United, Babel, Pennant, Dossena, Riera at Liverpool, Arsenal don't spend much compared to others on big players as they spend a fortune on youth but still Eduardo, Walcott and Rosicky haven't live up to expectations, Spurs then well there are loads but the ones that stand out are Bentley, Woodgate, Hutton, Chimbonda, Pavyluchenko, Dos Santos. City have their fair share too with Santa Cruz, Jo, Benjani, Caicedo and Lescott among them.

That's a fair enough argument EE but you can't compare some of the crud O'Neill bought with players like an Eduardo or a Hargreaves. That pays too much respect to useless players like Sidwell, Shorey & Heskey.

Helix

eagle eye wrote: »

I have no intention of doing that until I see your figures.

on the lappy, so:

Stewart Downing £12m
Fabian Delph £8.5m
Habib Beye £3.5m
Stephen Warnock £8m
James Collins £5m
Richard Dunne £5m
Curtis Davies £10m
Steven Sidwell £5.5m
Brad Friedel £2.5m
Brad Guzan £0.6m
Nicky Shorey £4.5m
Luke Young £5m
Carlos Cuellar £7.8m
James Milner £12m
Emile Heskey £3.5m
Marlon Harewood £4.5m
Zat Knight £3.5m
Moustapha Salifou £0.25m
Wayne Routledge£1.25m
Stiliyan Petrov £6.5m
Didier Agathe Free
Chris Sutton Free
John Carew Swap
Ashley Young £9.6m
Shaun Maloney £1m
Nigel Reo-Coker £8m
Total: £128m

Sold:
Craig Gardner £3m
Gareth Barry £12m
Stuart Taylor Free
Sam Williams Free
Zat Knight £4m
Thomas Sorensen Free
Olof Mellberg Free
Shaun Maloney Free
Wayne Routledge £0.6
Lee Hendrie Free
Liam Ridgewell £2m
Gary Cahill £5m
Luke Moore £3m
Ulises De la Cruz Free
Pete Whittingham £0.35m
Milan Baros Swap
Paul Green Free
Juan Pablo Angel Free
Stephen Henderson Free
Gavin McCann £1m
Aaron Hughes £1m
Robert Olejnik Free
Steve Davis £4m
Total: £35.95m

Net On Transfer Fees: £92.05m

wages 06/07 season: £38
wages 07/08 season: £42
wages 08/09 season: £72m
wage approximation 09/10 season: £85m

Total wages during MONs reign: £392.05m
Plus net spend: £421.1m

Almost half a billion pound during his tenureship... and people say he wasnt backed enough

Helix

Villain wrote: »

It's exactly the same logic you are using.

its really not

for our spend did we get value?

eagle eye

whatawaster wrote: »

MementoMori had this excellent post on the matter:



basically, we got sfa from the sale of Houllier's players, and our squad was an unbalanced mess when Rafa took over, albeit with 3/4 excellent players (Gerrard, Hyypia and Hamann)

Thats 57m worth of sales right there.

You also had Carragher there too.

Hard to put a worth in 2006 on what Gerrard would have been worth but I'd imagine if he was sold at that time he would have broken Ferdinand's transfer fee record. So I'd say you are talking about 60m worth of talent and 57m in sales, so thats 117m to be added to what Benitez spent to get a true picture of things.

SlickRic

right, no more talk of the Inter manager or Liverpool.

i had the morning off work this morning and come into this sh*te.

keep it on topic; i've cleaned up as much as possible. the start of the Liverpool/Villa discussion is left in a few pages back, but i deleted what descended into farce.

create a thread if you really need to discuss that.

it's irrelevant here.

now please people, cop on a bit...