Puppy is going to have arthritis

tk123

Where to begin - I'm just back from UCD with our 13 month old GR pup and still trying to take it all in so sorry if this is all muddled up!...
As some of you know my pup was lame a few months ago and became cow hocked so was referred to UCD. He was examined today and taken in for xrays and it turns out that the growth plates at his hocks closed abnormally. The plates are closed so it won't get any worse but the upshot is that because he's cow hocked and walks funny on his paws his joints are going to wear abnormally and he's going to have arthritis. Even if he had surgery to straighten his legs which would be extremely complicated, expensive and may not even work damage has already been done so he'll still have arthritis.
I'm a bit heartbroken and just have so many questions now Why is that the questions don't come until after you leave the place!! :rolleyes:

I have a jeep and the pup comes with me all the time - and jumps in and out - is this too much of an impact on him because the jeep is high?! Should I get a ramp or think about changing the car as I think a ramp might be too much hassle and he mightn't like it?!

I don't know how much exercise I should give him now - I was going by 5 mins per month of age so at the moment he gets 30 mins in the morning and again in the evening am I best to leave it at that to not do more damage...or is not exercising enough going to do more damage eg his muscles won't be strong?!!? I keep him on the grass as much as possible and he also has a little swim in the river.

What about his doggie day care - I was taking him twice a week so he could socialize and play because there's not that many dogs in our park that will play with him - he's too young for the older dogs and too big for the younger ones :pac: Is this too much for him now!?


I don't want him to be in pain and crippled in a few years but at the same time I don't want to have him miserable and wrapped up in cotton wool.

Juliet

TK, sorry to hear about your problem. My dog has hip dysplasia and I was given the following advice by my vet although I'm not sure all will apply to your dog's situation. Once a week trips to Hydrotherapy for a while to build up muscle tone and encourage flexibility (went to UCD for this). Cartrophen injections (4 every 3 months) to lub the joints and reduce inflammation. These were fantastic and I could see almost immediate improvements in the dog's gait and level of comfort. Try and keep the dog on the flat - that means no jumping on to couch or bed (impossible!!). I got a blanket box for the end of the bed so he uses that to get up. A ramp would be a very good idea for the car. Keep walks to 15 mins at a time and try to go at an even pace - I was told that stopping and starting was bad for the condition. They should have told you in UCD about follow up. If they didn't I would suggest to phone the clinician and have a chat with him. Best of luck.

boomerang

Hey OP,

Very sorry to hear about your poor pup's troubles. I've been there (although my dogs weren't quite so young when first diagnosed) and I know it's a lot to take in.

There are so many treatment options out there now for dogs with arthritis. The onset of pain is only very gradual and it can be managed very well. Sure you'll have to make some modifications to his lifestyle, but you don't need to wrap him up in cotton wool, either. He can still run and play and have his walkies - just no extra-long walks out of the blue (shorter walks, more often, is better) and ideally minimise things like running up the stairs, jumping up on the furniture and jumping in and out of the car. All those things take a toll over the years, but don't worry if he does these things at times when you can't stop him in time. Things you could do at home include putting a baby gate at the bottom of the stairs, putting a footstool or pouffe infront of the couch so he uses it as a step to access the couch rather than jumping up, and a ramp for the car. I just got one on ebay for €50 and it's honestly no trouble to use. I just keep it in the boot of the car.

There are lots of things you can do to ease his pain and stiffness when it happens in time. Acupuncture is great, as well as supplements like a glucosamine and chondroitin mix (brands include Flexicose, Arthri-Aid, Stride Plus, Sasha's Blend, Cosequin DS) that you squirt on his food, devil's claw capsules (I get them in Holland & Barrett), a drop of cider vinegar in his water bowl, and daily cod liver oil. You need to take him off the cod liver oil one week in four so as not to over-tax the liver.

In the meantime don't let your pup get too overweight as it puts extra-pressure on the joints. Keep him fit and well, definitely still bring him to daycare, and most of all enjoy him. He'll let you know when he's stiff or sore, and in time you'll learn to gauge how much he is able for without causing pain. It could be a long time yet before his arthritis is advanced enough for you to notice symptoms.

There is a good Yahoo! group called Orthodogs, where people share advice and experiences with their dogs facing different kinds of ortho-issues, including arthritis and hip dysplasia.

Also here is a link to the car ramp I bought on ebay. It was the best price I could find and it only took a week to arrive.

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320449609085&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


Oh, and I saw they have baby gates in Lidl today - think they are €21.99.

sligopark

why not try a bone setter or chiropractor that works with dogs?

tk123

Thanks guys. We already have a stair gate since he ran up all muddy and rolled all over my bed when he was smaller! :pac: I'll have to get a stool or something for the couch cos he loves to sit beside us. He's 30kgs now but the vet advised getting him to drop another 4kgs - I need to order a bag of food for him as the old one is running out so I've mailed Burns to ask them if we should switch to their High Oats variety as it's for overweight dogs so it may be easier to keep him slim on it.
A man we know from our walks has a 6 year old lab who has arthrits and the poor thing can hardly move so I think I was panicing comparing our guy to him. That dog is overweight though and the vet today seemed confident enought that keeping our guy slim would make a huge difference in postponing him gettng symptoms. The vet was pretty laid back about it whereas we're all thiking of him being crippled etc.

What about swimming - as the weather gets colder I should keep him out of the river?

teacherspet

OP I have had a few german shepards that have had HP. Cried my eyes out the first time. I learned over time just to enjoy my time with them when they were in their health and able to be fun loving pups. Don't fret to much, it will be a few years down the line before the arthritis's really affects him badly. Take all the info about supplements people are giving you at present but remember to enjoy the time now, as he is enjoying himself now . Join in with him and have a fun time with him.

lorebringer

tk123 wrote: »

What about swimming - as the weather gets colder I should keep him out of the river?

Swimming is a low impact so should be fine (but if you are concerned, ask your vet), but just a note to try dry him off as soon as possible after he gets out - bad joints and damp are not a good combo.

Have you enquired as to whether glucosamine and chondroitin would be of any benifit to your chap? Might be an idea to start him early.

andreac

Ah TK, im sorry to hear this but there is lots you do to try and help your doggie and ease the pain.

Firstly i would deffo recommend a ramp for the car as this wouldnt be good (jumoing in and out) for his joints.

There are lots of supplements you can get for joints too, Chondritin, Glucosomine, Arthri-aid and so on which will all help in some way. I think the arthri aid is covered under your insurance so check that out.

Good bedding would also help too to ensure the area your sleeps in is very cmfy and supporting the joints etc.
Swimming will def help too and im sure your vet can refer you for hydrotherapy classes as well.


Fair play to you and your dog is very lucky as not all owners would be doing as much as you have for your dog so well done there.

tk123

Thanks guys. I think the next step is to take him to our vet but he's still a bit stressed out after yesterday so I'll hold off a few days.

Hellrazer

Tk123--Try ester-c.Studies have shown a huge increase in a dogs mobility on high doses of ester-c(1500-2000 mg per day) with some dogs even showing improvments on x-rays.

tk123

Guys would I be wasting my time getting a second opinion - I don't think there's anything to lose? At the moment he's not in pain so thats it - we let him carry on wearing his bones away until he IS in pain then manage the pain?! It doesn't seem right to me - he's only 13 months old so is bound to do more damage because he's so active than say an older dog with sense? His pads are already cracked and one is worn right down at the edge becauce of the way he walks. I'd really appreciate some opinions on this - he's my first dog and I want him with me for a long time

Wisco

Probably would be wasting your time with a second opinion as UCD is already a referral only practice and whatever experts consult on xrays there often also work in other referral practices as well. You could request copies of xrays etc and have another expert look at them, but you will probably get the same response.
However, by giving joint supplements or trying something like Hill's J/D diet now (it has joint supps built into the diet and is designed for dogs with a problem), you can help reduce the impact of joint damage. You will end up with an arthritic dog at some stage- that happens any time there's damage to joints, regardless of the cause- but sometimes supplements/prescription diets can help by postponing the need for pain meds.
Hydrotherapy is excellent for joint problems as it reduces the impact of exercise on the joints- either at some place like UCD or swimming in your local river/lake. And as many other posters said, limiting exercise by working only on the flat, and no off lead exercise, or jumping is usually a good idea too.
Good luck.

Hellrazer

tk123 wrote: »

Guys would I be wasting my time getting a second opinion - I don't think there's anything to lose?

You probably would be to be honest assuming the vet youre seeing at present is reputable.

At the moment he's not in pain so thats it - we let him carry on wearing his bones away until he IS in pain then manage the pain?!

See my previous post.Ester-c is being hailed as a miracle supplement by a lot of people.As a matter of fact I noticed a few weeks ago that my lab is getting a bit stiff getting up in the mornings which is why I posted in this thread.

I started her on a regime of weight loss and ester-c @ 2000mg per day and in just over a week Ive already noticed an improvement so shes staying on it for life as recommended by my vet.

I also have her on glucosamine/chrondroitin twice a day also as recommended by my vet.

It doesn't seem right to me - he's only 13 months old so is bound to do more damage because he's so active than say an older dog with sense? His pads are already cracked and one is worn right down at the edge becauce of the way he walks. I'd really appreciate some opinions on this - he's my first dog and I want him with me for a long time

Honestly if it was me Id give this stuff a go.It costs 18 euros a month in Holland and Barrett--human grade products are recommended and will not cause your dog any problems unless yo u overdose on the ester-c which will cause runny poos so if that happens you drop the dose down by 1 tablet a day(500mg).I can forward you on the 2 exact products that I was recommended if you want.

andreac

tk123 wrote: »

Guys would I be wasting my time getting a second opinion - I don't think there's anything to lose? At the moment he's not in pain so thats it - we let him carry on wearing his bones away until he IS in pain then manage the pain?! It doesn't seem right to me - he's only 13 months old so is bound to do more damage because he's so active than say an older dog with sense? His pads are already cracked and one is worn right down at the edge becauce of the way he walks. I'd really appreciate some opinions on this - he's my first dog and I want him with me for a long time

I would agree with other posters, no point getting second opinion as UCD is the top vet clinic in ireland so going anywhere else wouldnt be much good really as most vets would refer you there for 2nd opinion.

I suggest you take up the advice people gave here about putting him on certain supplements etc and getting ramp for your car, special bedding and so on to help ease or slow down the condition.

tk123

Thanks again guys - still taking it all in and trying to figure out what to do. I'm going to call and make an appointment with our own vet and take it from there - I held off because he got so stressed the other day. A couple of people have suggested getting a second opinion (they've done it themselves) so I'll ask the vet what they think - even in our vets practice I've gotten conflicting advise from the different vets which has kind of added to my frustration because it's just drawn the whole thing out (I've been sticking to one vet for the last while which is better) - eg I would have started him on supplements sooner/gotten him skinnier etc etc
On the bright side I already have him on Flexicose and Mussel extract powder (Luposan from zooplus) and will get some ester-c for him too. He's been off his Metacam a week now and there's no stiffness so far He had a great time in the river yesterday and was very bold - he swam over the other side and was standing on his tippy toes trying to reach bread that somebody had scattered along the river bank for the birds - he knows he's going on a diet!!

teacherspet

so glad for you

tk123

Hellrazer wrote: »

Honestly if it was me Id give this stuff a go.It costs 18 euros a month in Holland and Barrett--human grade products are recommended and will not cause your dog any problems unless yo u overdose on the ester-c which will cause runny poos so if that happens you drop the dose down by 1 tablet a day(500mg).I can forward you on the 2 exact products that I was recommended if you want.

Do you break the capsule thing and shake the powder out or just give the whole thing?

Hellrazer

tk123 wrote: »

Do you break the capsule thing and shake the powder out or just give the whole thing?

I was told not to get the capsules but get the compressed powder ones.
Shouldnt really matter either way--just pop the tablet on the back of the dogs tongue and hold its mouth shut.

I got this one here for the ester c
http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=85&searchterm=ester%20c&rdcnt=1

and this one for the chondroitin.

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=576&prodid=425


Vet says both of these are 100%.Cost me 18.18 for almost 2 months supply.
Have my lab down to 3 ester per day and 2 chondroitin and shes a different dog.Even getting up in the mornings now isnt as much a burden for her as it was a couple of weeks ago.Shes even back running around with the kids whereas before she was just unable to play with them.

I dont put it all down to the 2 supplements above--I think a combination of weight loss and these supplements have done wonders for her.Shes lost 7lbs in 2 weeks and could probably do with loosing another stone to reach her ideal weight.Shes a typical big fat Labrador and trying to control her weight is a struggle and even harder since she was spayed.

tk123

Thanks! I upped it to 2 of the ester-c this morning so we'll see how he gets on. He's 30kgs so still a few kgs to go - they told me to aim for 26-27kgs. Hopefully he'll get a thicker coat coming into winter so he won't look too skinny! :pac:

Hellrazer

tk123 wrote: »

Thanks! I upped it to 2 of the ester-c this morning so we'll see how he gets on.

The advice given to me was not to give 2 esterc together.
Youre better off trying to reach 2000mg per day by spreading it out over 4 tablets rather than say 2 twice a day--It makes it easier for them to absorb.

tk123

Thanks Hellrazer!

StupidLikeAFox

Hey there are also foods available specifically for older dogs, these have things like added glucosamine which helps joints, and my mam is on glucosamine tablets for her arthiritis so it cant be too bad! They are also designed for weight control so that might help the weight problem.

Also as someone else said there are loads of treatments available so chin up, Im sure your little fella can still live an active life!

tk123

I hope it's ok to post an update on how our guy is getting on! I thought I'd post it in case any one is interested or stumbles across the thread in a similar situation because I've done a lot of googling and it can be hard to find info for this problem (valgus deviation) - well it was for me anyways!

Firstly he's in great form :pac: We got the weight down to 26kgs and his coat is starting to get long and fuzzy like a proper retriever lol so he doesn't look too skinny! I tried him on Burns High Oats because it's meant to be their lower fat/keep them fuller food but it didn't agree with him so we went back to the regular one. I decided to cut his breakfast and dinner portions back and still allow him treats for training etc because I pratice his training a lot to help use up his energy since we can't run him ragged! The training really helped when his ramp came the other week - we do clicker training at class so it only took about 15 mins to learn how to use the ramp for getting in and out of the car.

For supplements he has Flexicose and Luposan joint powder (the Lupsosan is from zooplus - when the powder runs out I'll switch to pellets I think for ease of use) with his breakfast and salmon oil with his dinner. We overdid it with the Ester-C with bad results so I haven't been brave enough to try it again. :rolleyes:

We have the balance just right at the moment excercise wise so he doesn't get tired and sore and he's able for daycare twice a week which he loves so it's great to see him excited running in the door to play with his friends!

And the biggest news at the moment is that we took a road trip down to Cork for our second opinion a couple of weeks ago. I went down with the mindset that we weren't looking for miracles it was a second opinion - if he agreed with UCD then that was fine - we'd deal with it knowing we'd done the best for the puppy and wouldn't have any "what ifs". Anyhoos the vet was fantastic - he was very calm even thou our poor guy was a bit stressed and afraid and gave him a light sedative rather than muzzle and hold him down and stress him out even more. We had to walk him around the carpark for 10 mins or so until it kicked in - LOL we knew when it was kicking in because his legs were all out of time with each other like he was drunk!!:pac::pac: The vet said that the deformity isn't something he'd leave to just do let him do damage to his bones and muscles and that he can help our little baba and straighten his legs!

So at the moment we're on tenterhooks waiting to hear what's going to happen next! On one hand I want to get the ball rolling and just get the surgery over with and start the recovery process and on the other hand it's a bit scary wondering what he'll be like after the surgey - will it be both legs, will he be in bad pain, how long will it take for him to start using the leg(s) again, will I be able to take proper care of him and look after the pins etc etc etc
Hopefully we'll hear back soon!