German Police Close Mosque

prinz

irishconvert wrote: »

If someone is really training people in bomb making why don't the police just go in and arrest the person like they would in any other situation? Why close the mosque? Using a slegehammer to crack a nut IMO.

It's an institution. The institution was closed down. I notice your focusing on the Mosque and ignoring the rest.

shampon

This is only going to force more moderate Muslim's into extremism, Sometimes I wonder about the decisions Governments make...

shampon

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Good on the Germans.

They've bent over backwards to accommodate 'multiculturalism' and it's been thrown back in their faces.

Been in Germany recently and the Germans are fed up with being taken advantage of. They've done nothing thus far through guilt and shame about the war but after 3 or 4 generations there is still no integration or contribution to the host society so they are drawing some boundaries.

No doubt there'll be plenty of accusations of Nazi-ism but it's nothing like that.

I walked through a Muslim neighbourhood in a German city recently. Not one woman to be seen. All the men sat in groups outside titty bars click clacking their beads and giving me dirty looks and hissing when I walked to Netto. WTF My boyfriend ended up coming everywhere with me, we had no choice as our accommodation was there. That's what it's like, ghettoes. Anecdotal yes, but there you go.

There is a-lot to be said about this. I agree that people should respect and implement the culture of their chosen country that has been kind to accommodate them. But I'm also sure that if you walked through a white ghetto in Germany you would get the same thing, If you walked through a Turkish ghetto in Germany, you would get the same...it's life, but all that said, Immigration has gone haywire in Germany, it's ridiculous.

prinz

shampon wrote: »

This is only going to force more moderate Muslim's into extremism, Sometimes I wonder about the decisions Governments make...

If moderates becomes more extreme because the State takes action against terrorist breeding grounds I'd have to wonder how moderate they were to begin with tbh.

Duggy747

I blame the foreigners, Europe is full of them......feckin' hairy Japanese bastards. :pac:

Seriously though, the Muslim propaganda machine will be churning over things like this.

Europe is the disease. Islam is the cure.

I find the music in their propaganda videos to be spooky, heavy-echoing voices chanting away. :P

yutta

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Though I am not a fan of several parts of the cornerstones of the faith of Islam, the whole men above women, women getting stoned to death, etc part of it, I really have no problem with the whole religious side of it. My annoyance is at the way some Muslims see themselves as better than me, while enjoying the lifestyle of living in the country I was born in!!!! My best example is, Christ church, St Audoens, St Patricks Cathedral,etc are all Irish places of worship, regardless of what Christian religion you are part of, and they are open to the public regardless of what religion or creed they are of.

But my OH was a student in the College of Surgeons in Stephens green, which is also where a lot of Muslims from other countries study medicine also. While there he and indeed I witnessed quite a few incidents where Islam seemed above the rules, examples of this include;

- Exams occured (as is par of any college course) at different times of day, but the rules as with most colleges was that any student that was not in the exam hall by a specific time could not sit the exam. One of the exam times was in the evening and because it coinsided with Muslim prayer times half way through the exam many Muslim students just sauntered in and were arguing with tutors and examiners about not being allowed sit exams. It was not done to annoy the Islamic students, its just they had a 2 week period in which they could do the exams and they had a lot of exams to be sat.

- According to my OH you would be sitting in the library studying and all of a sudden at 5pm or so, the Islamic students would get out of their chairs and kneel on the floor and start their chanting/praying out loud there and then, making it impossible for any other student in the library to study, even though they are provided with a prayer room in the college.

-Women refuse to wear short sleeves when in the hospitals even though it is seen as unsanitary. It is no disrespect to their beliefs but is a severe danger to the health of patients if they wear them. Also they cannot use a stethoscope with some of their head pieces, the hijab and nijab are not made to be used with it and this means the patients quality of care is at risk!

- I went to visit my partner one day in the college at 8 months pregnant and I went to the bathroom, the floor of the bathroom was soaking wet and I fell. I saw girls washing their feet in the sinks of the bathroom, even though they were informed by the college that this was against health and safety and it was ignored.

-The main canteen closes during the day for Ramadan, even thought Muslims are not the only student of the college and others are forced to leave the college for food during this time.

- Every other religion in the college has to use the non-denominational church just up from the college for any any all prayers/serviced/etc but the Muslims are provided with a prayer room solely for their use, which I think is wrong, everyone should either have their own or share the one.

- The Muslim prayer room is in the old basement of the college (an out of the way part you would say) but these are the exact same basement that were used by Michael Mallin and Countess Markiewicz and their men during the rising on Easter week 1916 so they are open to other students to see also, as well as the public if pre arranged, but the Islamic students try to prevent you from going down there at all, and if you do get down, there are comments made and you are stared at for the entirity of your time there, even though their prayer room id one of several rooms down there!

I have met many lovely and very nice muslims and my friend is married to one so I have no problem with the people of Islam, and as already stated apart from a few of the harsher parts of their beliefs I cannot comment on their faith as I know very little about it. But Irelands fear of being seen as racist or sectarian means the powers that be do not feel it can tell others to try and fit in more with Irish society and make them respect Irish norms as they are, I am not saying they have to go to the pub on a Saturday as it is seen as the norm, but just to accept that if you are here in Ireland you must show some respect to the history and people of this country.

Nasty little couple aren't you? For educated persons, I would have expected better. Let's hope you don't raise your children to be such bigotted xenophobes. And not everyone in this country subscribes to your deluded patriotic visions of Easter 1916.

Wibbs

yutta wrote: »

Nasty little couple aren't you? For educated persons, I would have expected better. Let's hope you don't raise your children to be such bigotted xenophobes. And not everyone in this country subscribes to your deluded patriotic visions of Easter 1916.

Way to completely miss the point of that post. Further I have no idea where you got the 1916 stuff from. It could have been any historic site. So she's a bigoted xenophobe, yet the subjects of her account are sounding pretty xenophobic themselves? So any culture is better than your own then? No matter how ill mannered they may act?

partyatmygaff

yutta wrote: »

Nasty little couple aren't you? For educated persons, I would have expected better. Let's hope you don't raise your children to be such bigotted xenophobes. And not everyone in this country subscribes to your deluded patriotic visions of Easter 1916.

I don't see how making valid observations makes someone a bigoted(sic) xenophobe. In fact it seems that you read maybe every five words of that post and then somehow mutilated it in to something that you could use to create a reply.

The German police closed down a terrorist recruitment and organization centre that "happened" to be a mosque. If you try and play the victim card then that means you're sympathizing with the terrorists.

yutta

Wibbs wrote: »

Way to completely miss the point of that post. Further I have no idea where you got the 1916 stuff from. It could have been any historic site. So she's a bigoted xenophobe, yet the subjects of her account are sounding pretty xenophobic themselves? So any culture is better than your own then? No matter how ill mannered they may act?

The apparent ill manners of some does not give one a licence to be a xenophobic bigot and tar all Muslims with the same brush.

As it happens, a lot of Muslims do think aspects of Irish/British/American/whatever culture are inferior to their own. So what. But these Muslims who "see themselves as better" are not here to soak up the bad parts of Irish culture, they're paying top dollar to be educated in a decent institution so they can learn how to save lives. I doubt many of the 600 points middle class types in RCSI could afford to study medicine at €43,500 a year. They should be thanking their lucky stars wealthy Muslims are subsidising their education. Is a basement prayer room too much to ask? I mean Newman University Church, for all the pure Irish Catholic nationalist types, is on St Stephen's Green, and is literally 2 mins up the road. If you don't like that, you can always pop across to Whitefriars Street where there are like 5 or 6 Masses a day.

yutta

yutta wrote: »

They should be thanking their lucky stars wealthy Muslims are subsidising their education. Is a basement prayer room too much to ask?

In a word YES. paying 43,000 entitles you to an education it shouldnt entitle you to special treatment because you chose to follow a specfic religion .

Donkey Oaty

yutta wrote: »

The apparent ill manners of some does not give one a licence to be a xenophobic bigot and tar all Muslims with the same brush.

Reading isn't your strong point, is it? The poster did not tar all Muslims with the same brush - quite the opposite.

yutta

Crosby Whispering Image wrote: »

In a word YES. paying 43,000 entitles you to an education it shouldnt entitle you to special treatment because you chose to follow a specfic religion .

Tell that to the bean counters in RCSI. If the RCSI got a reputation for being an agressively secularist outfit which went out of its way to not accommodate the pastoral needs of their students (no matter what their religion), they'd be boycotted.

And besides, RCSI produce some of the best doctors in the country. They're doing a good job. What makes you feel qualified to tell a private institution how it should be run?

yutta

yutta wrote: »

Tell that to the bean counters in RCSI. If the RCSI got a reputation for being an agressively secularist outfit which went out of it way to not accommodate the pastoral needs of their students (no matter what their religion), they'd be boycotted.

And besides, RCSI produce some of the best doctors in the country. They're doing a good job. What makes you feel qualified to tell a private institution how it should be run?

Are you sure about this ?? what makes you qualified to question whether i am qualified to voice an opinion ???

partyatmygaff

yutta wrote: »

The apparent ill manners of some does not give one a licence to be a xenophobic bigot and tar all Muslims with the same brush.

They did no such thing. Read the post this time before replying.

As it happens, a lot of Muslims do think aspects of Irish/British/American/whatever culture are inferior to their own. So what.

So what? If they think their culture is above us then they can go study back at home to avoid mingling with "inferior" cultures.

But these Muslims who "see themselves as better" are not here to soak up the bad parts of Irish culture, they're paying top dollar to be educated in a decent institution so they can learn how to save lives.

Someone with that kind of mental makeup is not studying medicine to save lives. They are studying medicine to make money. Regardless, I would not want to be treated by such a doctor with such views.

I doubt many of the 600 points middle class types in RCSI could afford to study medicine at €43,500 a year.

Money over talent. Interesting...

They should be thanking their lucky stars wealthy Muslims are subsidising their education. Is a basement prayer room too much to ask?

And the hundreds of other foreign students paying their way can be just ignored. They are paying for a spot in university. Not to own the university. Just to study in it. Irish and EU students ultimately have paid for their education through their parent's taxes.

I mean Newman University Church, for all the pure Irish Catholic nationalist types, is on St Stephen's Green, and is literally 2 mins up the road. If you don't like that, you can always pop across to Whitefriars Street where there are like 5 or 6 Masses a day.

Yes yes.... Now who were you calling a bigoted xenophobe moments ago?

yutta

Crosby Whispering Image wrote: »

Are you sure about this ?? what makes you qualified to question whether i am qualified to voice an opinion ???

We can all voice opinions till the cows come home. They're pretty meaningless if you don't have the power to make decisons behind you.

But don't let that stop you from trying to influence how the RCSI is run.

Donkey Oaty

yutta wrote: »

We can all voice opinions till the cows come home.

Here's mine: most of them are more interesting than yours.

yutta

yutta wrote: »

We can all voice opinions till the cows come home. They're pretty meaningless if you don't have the power to make decisons behind you.

But don't let that stop you from trying to influence how the RCSI is run.

meh you know nothing about me nor whether i have the power to influence any institutions or not .

yutta

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Money over talent. Interesting...

I'll pick you up on this.

Lol. 3rd time lucky after 2 years in a grinds school does not qualify as "talent". Trinity have brought in interviews just to make sure that the 600 pointer isn't a total regurgitating geekazoid incapable of communicating with a grieving family.

The rest of your post suggests you're a very angry person and are being very irrational. Calm down and try to reflect on your xenophobia and I might consider withdrawing the remark.

Yutta, would you mind being quiet for a while? You're wreckin everyones heads.

yutta

Crosby Whispering Image wrote: »

meh you know nothing about me nor whether i have the power to influence any institutions or not .

You're probably a bored secretary.

pablomakaveli

yutta wrote: »

The apparent ill manners of some does not give one a licence to be a xenophobic bigot and tar all Muslims with the same brush.

As it happens, a lot of Muslims do think aspects of Irish/British/American/whatever culture are inferior to their own. So what. But these Muslims who "see themselves as better" are not here to soak up the bad parts of Irish culture, they're paying top dollar to be educated in a decent institution so they can learn how to save lives. I doubt many of the 600 points middle class types in RCSI could afford to study medicine at €43,500 a year. They should be thanking their lucky stars wealthy Muslims are subsidising their education. Is a basement prayer room too much to ask? I mean Newman University Church, for all the pure Irish Catholic nationalist types, is on St Stephen's Green, and is literally 2 mins up the road. If you don't like that, you can always pop across to Whitefriars Street where there are like 5 or 6 Masses a day.

That does'nt give them the right to have preferential treatment or flout rules that are there for the safety of others.

yutta

yutta wrote: »

You're probably a bored secretary.

hahha great comeback !!! illustrates perfectly you know nothing about me

Nijmegen

Somebody said that this was a terrorist organisation and recruitment centre that just happened to be in a mosque.

It did not "just happen" - they pick mosques because they know that the PC brigade won't allow us to break them up so easily.

If it was ten extremeists meeting in a flat once a week we'd have no issue with it being busted.

The insurgants in Iraq and Afghanistan use similar tactics, firing from mosques and schools, and using them as ammunition dumps and so on and so forth. If western forces fired into them, they'd be decried for violating holy ground or the rules of war.

They're cynical.

partyatmygaff

yutta wrote: »

I'll pick you up on this.

Lol. 3rd time lucky after 2 years in a grinds school does not qualify as "talent". Trinity have brought in interviews just to make sure that the 600 pointer isn't a total regurgitating geekazoid incapable of communicating with a grieving family.

The rest of your post suggests you're a very angry person and are being very irrational. Calm down and try to reflect on your xenophobia and I might consider withdrawing the remark.

Wow, how condescending can you get?

Regardless of the fact you ignored the rest of my post as you have no comeback to it but if I were you i'd quickly stop the hyperbole.

You quite clearly do not understand how entry to Medicine works. No "3rd time repeat after two years in a grind school" will ever get in to medicine.
In fact getting 600 points does not guarantee you a spot in medicine. You need to pass the HPAT and your cumulative points dictate whether or not you go in to medicine. This is what roots out the "Geekazoids" as you put them from the people with an aptitude for medicine.
I know all this because next year I'll be sitting my Leaving Cert with medicine put down on my CAO.

Now if you will, could you stop calling other people irrational and angry when it's you who's posting crap.

irishconvert

Crosby Whispering Image wrote: »

In a word YES. paying 43,000 entitles you to an education it shouldnt entitle you to special treatment because you chose to follow a specfic religion .

Providing a room for people to pray in is not asking a lot. Muslims have to pray 5 times a day. What is the harm on making it easier for them to combine praying with their studies? If it bothers you so much then rename the room to a multireligious praying room. That is what most placed do anyway, it's just that usually the Muslims are the only ones who use it.

craggles

I know plenty of muslims who don't pray five times a day.

SleepDoc

Stinicker wrote: »

About bloody time Islam has no place anywhere on the continent of Europe and the sooner that Europe moves to eradicate it from our continent the better. Islam is not a minority group by the way is fastly becoming the largest mass Religion on Earth. The Swiss have banned Minarets, France is tackling the Burkha, What has Ireland done? Squat Diddly thats what. Islamofacism is the greatest threat we face in the west and I for one cannot wait to see Sarah Palin elected President of the United States in 2012, Islam will soon be all but a bad memory by the end of her reign.

God Bless our Freedom and our Christian values, Religions that do not believe in freedom of religion are themselves exempt and should be banned.

Oh right. My sky fairy is better than your sky fairy?

kylith

irishconvert wrote: »

Providing a room for people to pray in is not asking a lot. Muslims have to pray 5 times a day. What is the harm on making it easier for them to combine praying with their studies? If it bothers you so much then rename the room to a multireligious praying room. That is what most placed do anyway, it's just that usually the Muslims are the only ones who use it.

I think you missed the bit where it was said that they do have a dedicated prayer room in the college, but some pray in the library, which is disrespectful and distracting to other students.

irishconvert

kylith wrote: »

I think you missed the bit where it was said that they do have a dedicated prayer room in the college, but some pray in the library, which is disrespectful and distracting to other students.

I didn't. I was replying to Crosby Whispering Image who doesn't think they should have a prayer room.

yutta wrote:

They should be thanking their lucky stars wealthy Muslims are subsidising their education. Is a basement prayer room too much to ask?

Crosby Whispering Image wrote:

In a word YES. paying 43,000 entitles you to an education it shouldnt entitle you to special treatment because you chose to follow a specfic religion .

irishconvert

craggles wrote: »

I know plenty of muslims who don't pray five times a day.

And...

yutta

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I know all this because next year I'll be sitting my Leaving Cert with medicine put down on my CAO.

Best of luck with that. I'm sure you'll make a great doctor. Unlike wolfpawnat's OH with his xenophobia. Probably best leave that at the gates.

yutta

kylith wrote: »

I think you missed the bit where it was said that they do have a dedicated prayer room in the college, but some pray in the library, which is disrespectful and distracting to other students.

I wonder does people talking and laughing in the library bother you as much? Or is it just the dirty Muslims?

prinz

irishconvert wrote: »

I didn't. I was replying to Crosby Whispering Image who doesn't think they should have a prayer room.

No Crosby Whispering Image objects to special treatment, which if the prayer room is reserved for Muslims only it is.

prinz

yutta wrote: »

Best of luck with that. I'm sure you'll make a great doctor. Unlike wolfpawnat's OH with his xenophobia. Probably best leave that at the gates.

Could you point out anything xenophobic in wolfpawnat's post?

kylith

irishconvert wrote: »

I didn't. I was replying to Crosby Whispering Image who doesn't think they should have a prayer room.

Ah, I misunderstood your post. I didn't get from Crosby Whispering Image's original post that she begrudged them a prayer room, but that she thought it unfair that they didn't all use it.

yutta wrote: »

I wonder does people talking and laughing in the library bother you as much? Or is it just the dirty Muslims?

It does actually. It behoves everyone in a library to show consideration for other users.

Why do you think Muslims are dirty?

twinQuins

Nodin wrote: »

You're the one who admitted to sitting with the sole of your foot pointed at an Arab for a train journey for the express purpose of provoking him, aren't you?

And then beat him up, with other people. I wish more people would keep that in mind when they see his posts on these subjects.

El Diablo 101

The thing is that certain muslims don't subscribe to the 'when in rome' aspect of life. They have their laws in their home countries, which when we visit we respect (ie. UAE) . So I think that they should respect our laws and customs when they are, say, in France re: burkha.

The sad thing is, that in France, and Germany there are 'no-go' areas for police, and unfortunately it will be that way in Britain soon too. And if and when a mosque is closed down, (FOR REASONS TO CURB TERRORISM) they cry persecution.

Personally, I have NO qualms with Islam, or muslims for that matter. The problem is when places which are supposed to be places of worship are blatantly used to plan terrorist attacks against the people who have given you a lot of liberties in the first place.

There should be NO persecution against muslims.
But likewise, they should integrate with our laws, and customs. Or at least respect them.

Nijmegen

Praying on planes is another good one. Nothing quite like standing around near the cockpit at the end of a 12 hour journey coming into London reciting "God Is Great", also the final words of many the suicide bomber.

prinz

Nijmegen wrote: »

Praying on planes is another good one. Nothing quite like standing around near the cockpit at the end of a 12 hour journey coming into London reciting "God Is Great", also the final words of many the suicide bomber.

As long as it's not the pilot ..

and obeys flight crew instructions/doesn't cause an obstruction/noise issue to everyone else don't see a problem with that so much.

craggles

irishconvert wrote: »

And...

So they consider themselves practicing muslims and they haven't dropped dead yet for praying less than five times a day so the use of the word "have" is probably a bit strong?

Also, what's your stance on students praying out loud in the library when a dedicated prayer room is available?

craggles

El Diablo 101 wrote: »

There should be NO persecution against muslims.
But likewise, they should integrate with our laws, and customs. Or at least respect them.

I don't think anyone can disagree with this.

irishconvert

craggles wrote: »

So they consider themselves practicing muslims and they haven't dropped dead yet for praying less than five times a day so the use of the word "have" is probably a bit strong?

Still not sure what your point is. So they don't pray 5 times a day, it doesn't mean they are not Muslim, it just means they have gone astray and are not following one of the main pillars of Islam.

craggles wrote: »

Also, what's your stance on students praying out loud in the library when a dedicated prayer room is available?

I think it is unacceptable. I certainly would not do it. Why were they not thrown out of the library?

irishconvert

El Diablo 101 wrote: »

There should be NO persecution against muslims.
But likewise, they should integrate with our laws, and customs. Or at least respect them.

Respect, yes, integrate no! At least not all customs. I am not going to go out and get hammered on Paddy's day as is the (releatively new) custom.

craggles

My point was right there in my post. But this is going off topic a little bit.

bluto63

I don't believe society should go out of their way to appease a religion. The religion should work within in the structure of the society. This doesn't just apply to Muslims, I believe it for all religion.
If there's a prayer room, use it. Don't disturb other people with your beliefs. Go somewhere quiet and pray without causing a disturbance.

El Diablo 101

irishconvert wrote: »

Respect, yes, integrate no! At least not all customs. I am not going to go out and get hammered on Paddy's day as is the (releatively new) custom.

Pardon me, I didn't mean all customs haha (although if that is strictly a custom could be debated! we won't get into that...). perhaps something like a healthy respect for Christmas, as we wouldn't eat in public during the day during the month of Ramadan if we were in Saudi Arabia.

That is more along the lines of what I meant

Nodin

Crosby Whispering Image wrote: »

In a word YES. paying 43,000 entitles you to an education it shouldnt entitle you to special treatment because you chose to follow a specfic religion .

partyatmygaff wrote:

So what? If they think their culture is above us then they can go study back at home to avoid mingling with "inferior" cultures. .

pablomakavelli wrote:

That does'nt give them the right to have preferential treatment or flout rules that are there for the safety of others. .

kylith wrote:

I think you missed the bit where it was said that they do have a dedicated prayer room in the college, but some pray in the library, which is disrespectful and distracting to other students. .

yutta wrote:

Best of luck with that. I'm sure you'll make a great doctor. Unlike wolfpawnat's OH with his xenophobia. Probably best leave that at the gates. .

Just as a matter of interest, why are people talking of one posters anecdotes as if they're proven fact?

pablomakaveli

Nodin wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, why are people talking of one posters anecdotes as if they're proven fact?

If we dismissed all peoples anecdotes for lack of evidence we'd have very little to discuss here on boards.

And this is a forum for discussion , not a courthouse.

Nodin

Well, if it was about the location of shergar, I'd say fair enough. However given the amount of heat this generates towards real people, it really would be better if more grains of salt were added when people share their stories.

Gavin "shels"

Mr Cawley wrote: »

fair play Germany, couldn't imagine Ireland tying to touch those people

Get the aul priests out in force