Just started running-Can I run the Dublin Marathon in October?

Krusty_Clown

brophya2007 wrote: »

Krusty - would you suggest 16/Half/18/20 for the next four weeks?

I missed my LSR last week and did 15 miles the week before that.

15 is the furthest i've got so far, maybe 17 this week?

Hi BrophyA, without knowing your background, it's very difficult to prescribe a training program (and I am the opposite end of the spectrum to a coach), but if this is your first marathon, and the above long runs correspond to the weekends you have remaining before the taper and you're doing the half marathon (that's a lot of if's!) then yes, 16, half, 18 and then 19 or 20 is probably your best bet before the three week taper.

Remember the old idioms:
It's better to be under-trained then over-trained
If you don't make the start line, then you definitely won't make the finish line
Keep those LSRs slow.

Cindyss

Hi All,
Another question, DCM virgin,
Just ran Dingle 1/2 in 1.49, felt quite easy to be honest, over the next 3 weeks I have 2 20Mile LSR's schedules, have completed one already which was very hilly and very hard, ( will do next one on the flat )
I have signed up to do the Cork to Cobh run 3 weeks out from the DCM, should I run this at PMP ( 9 M/M ) or try for as fast a time as I can ~ 8 to 8.15 M/M.
Thanks for all your help and information, Boards is getting me thru the training,

Regards gary

Krusty_Clown

Cindyss wrote: »

Hi All,
Another question, DCM virgin,
Just ran Dingle 1/2 in 1.49, felt quite easy to be honest, over the next 3 weeks I have 2 20Mile LSR's schedules, have completed one already which was very hilly and very hard, ( will do next one on the flat )
I have signed up to do the Cork to Cobh run 3 weeks out from the DCM, should I run this at PMP ( 9 M/M ) or try for as fast a time as I can ~ 8 to 8.15 M/M.
Thanks for all your help and information, Boards is getting me thru the training,

Regards gary

Three weeks out from your target marathon is usually the opportunity when you run your last long run, before beginning your taper.
How long is Cork to Cobh?
When are you doing your last long run?

DoraExplora

Hi ,

Just after checking out that Higdon plan and at the risk of sounding stupid...what does 'cross' mean on sundays? is it any kind of cross training you want? And what do the numbers mean on Saturdays?? are they miles too?

RayCun

DoraExplora wrote: »

Hi ,
Just after checking out that Higdon plan and at the risk of sounding stupid...what does 'cross' mean on sundays? is it any kind of cross training you want? And what do the numbers mean on Saturdays?? are they miles too?

yes and yes.

Any sort of cross-training, but things that take the weight off your legs are better, like swimming or cycling.
And they are miles on Saturdays, the long slow runs.

xebec

Cindyss wrote: »

Hi All,
Another question, DCM virgin,
Just ran Dingle 1/2 in 1.49, felt quite easy to be honest, over the next 3 weeks I have 2 20Mile LSR's schedules, have completed one already which was very hilly and very hard, ( will do next one on the flat )
I have signed up to do the Cork to Cobh run 3 weeks out from the DCM, should I run this at PMP ( 9 M/M ) or try for as fast a time as I can ~ 8 to 8.15 M/M.
Thanks for all your help and information, Boards is getting me thru the training,

Regards gary

Some discussion on this point already over on the Cork to Cobh thread.

Krusty - C2C is 15 miles on a flat course...

menoscemo

Cindyss wrote: »

I have signed up to do the Cork to Cobh run 3 weeks out from the DCM, should I run this at PMP ( 9 M/M )

Depends on the training plan you are following. P&D for exapmle recommend you running a race that weekend (albeit a much shorter one).

I was thinking of doing this race at PMP. I think doing 15 mile PMP comfortably 3 weeks out from the big day would be a great confidence booster. Why don't you try it as a 'dress rehersal'. i.e. caryy the same gels you intend to for DCM, same nutrition plan wear same gear etc.

Krusty_Clown

menoscemo wrote: »

Depends on the training plan you are following. P&D for exapmle recommend you running a race that weekend (albeit a much shorter one).

It better be two weeks out, as I'm lining up tomorrow for a 10k!

menoscemo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

It better be two weeks out, as I'm lining up tomorrow for a 10k!

sorry, you're right. Still though the point stands. I think running 15 PMP 3 weeks before the marathon would be a very worthwhile workout.

Cindyss

Thanks for the advice lads, I think I will take it nice and handy and try to get a consistant pace going for the 15 miles rather than belt out and wreck myself ahead of Dublin, The only issue might be is if I get ahead of myself a try to go for a faster time,

Thanks again Gary

jaytobe

DoraExplora wrote: »

Hi ,

Just after checking out that Higdon plan and at the risk of sounding stupid...what does 'cross' mean on sundays? is it any kind of cross training you want? And what do the numbers mean on Saturdays?? are they miles too?

Explaination of the terms here (and by Krusty above!)
http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm

jaytobe

menoscemo wrote: »

I was thinking of doing this race at PMP. I think doing 15 mile PMP comfortably 3 weeks out from the big day would be a great confidence booster. Why don't you try it as a 'dress rehersal'. i.e. caryy the same gels you intend to for DCM, same nutrition plan wear same gear etc.

For the experienced ones...at what stages do people take gels (no whatever works for you soundbites:rolleyes:)!

jaytobe

menoscemo wrote: »

Depends on the training plan you are following. P&D for exapmle recommend you running a race that weekend (albeit a much shorter one).

I was thinking of doing this race at PMP. I think doing 15 mile PMP comfortably 3 weeks out from the big day would be a great confidence booster. Why don't you try it as a 'dress rehersal'. i.e. caryy the same gels you intend to for DCM, same nutrition plan wear same gear etc.

xebec wrote: »

Some discussion on this point already over on the Cork to Cobh thread.

Krusty - C2C is 15 miles on a flat course...

Krusty, for hose on Hal Higidon this is the 20mile w/e that the C2C is on. What ya reckon re: worth doing to practice routine, is 5mile a real difference. Assume pace should be same for LSRs.

menoscemo

jaytobe wrote: »

For the experienced ones...at what stages do people take gels (no whatever works for you soundbites:rolleyes:)!

For me generally for anything over 15 miles I'll carry a few gels. Even if you don't 'need them' it is good to practise takign them as come the big day you will run out of energy around 20 miles if you have not taken some calories on board earlier in the race.

menoscemo

jaytobe wrote: »

Krusty, for hose on Hal Higidon this is the 20mile w/e that the C2C is on. What ya reckon re: worth doing to practice routine, is 5mile a real difference. Assume pace should be same for LSRs.

I would say if it is the only 20 in your plan, it would be more important to get the 20 miler done.
You could maybe swap weeks around- do the 20 the week before and run C2C the next week?

lamai

I want to do the Dublin Marathon in October(first time), which gives me 6 weeks or probably 5 weeks with only a few smaller runs on the last week. I do some triathlons and I am in good shape(run about 17.30min for 5k and 38min for 10k). but I only run maybe once or twice a week maybe 5-8 miles. The most I had ran up until today was 9 miles. So today I ran 13.5 miles in 1hr 47min. I felt grand with the pace and I probably could have went to 18 miles.(legs are fine tonight)

As I have very little time left. I need a training schedule for the next few weeks, any ideas on how many miles I should run a week etc?

Thanks

Krusty_Clown

lamai wrote: »

I want to do the Dublin Marathon in October(first time), which gives me 6 weeks or probably 5 weeks with only a few smaller runs on the last week. I do some triathlons and I am in good shape(run about 17.30min for 5k and 38min for 10k). but I only run maybe once or twice a week maybe 5-8 miles. The most I had ran up until today was 9 miles. So today I ran 13.5 miles in 1hr 47min. I felt grand with the pace and I probably could have went to 18 miles.(legs are fine tonight)

As I have very little time left. I need a training schedule for the next few weeks, any ideas on how many miles I should run a week etc?

Thanks

Personally I wouldn't recommend it, as you are potentially putting yourself at a high risk of injury (with 6 weeks to go, beginner programs would be up around the 18 mile mark). It's not about what you could have done, but instead what you actually have done. You need to build that strength and endurance in your legs, not only so you can complete the race, but also run for 3+ hours without causing injury.

But if you must persist, you need to get the mileage into the legs, while trying to keep the weekly increase in mileage quite steady. You already have solid speed, so I'd concentrate on getting time on the feet. Run your long runs very easy, and build up the time on your feet. I'm not going to suggest a plan, as I don't believe there is a sensible approach that will get you from 9 miles (yes I know you've done a 13 mile run) to 26 miles in 6 weeks. Just gradually build up the weekend long run until you're up to 18-20 miles, and don't forget to taper for the last couple of weeks.

LouiseMcNa

My friend ran it with no training and reckoned it was a massive mental hurdle and from that point of view he said it was amazing. Think he intially signed up to lose weight and train and did neither so said his punishment was running it. Took him 5 hours or more, did a lot of walk run walk. In fairness he had some training and did some circuit stuff which he said helped more than the road running so try that. Personally I would not do it without training for at least 3 to 4 months before.
Best of luck with it.

Krusty_Clown

LouiseMcNa wrote: »

In fairness he had some training and did some circuit stuff which he said helped more than the road running so try that.

Fair play to your friend for overcoming his absence of training and complete the distance anyway. Circuit training is certainly better than no training at all, but the only way to train for a marathon is to rack up miles on the road.

I hope he went back afterwards and trained properly, and gave it another bash?

nerraw1111

I did harbour ambitions of doing the DCM this year. Decent base, being running all year with half marathons and ten milers in there.

For me, once I was asking myself 'can I do it if...' you already know the answer. Did it last year, great experience but I pretty much wrecked myself for 4 months afterwards. So be warned. DCM is always there.

I'm thinking about doing one of the spring marathons instead. Best of luck to those having a go

bobbysands81

I completed the DCM in 2007 using the Hal Higdon novice training plan (I'm sure it's on the thread already). I went from not being able to run 200metres to finishing the marathon in 16 weeks (I missed the first two weeks training) and although it was an amazing experience and I rigidly ran every single mile in the training schedule I would not recommend anyone doing the marathon without properly preparing.

3 years and about 6 physios later I still wake up at night with pains down the right hand side of my right leg (muscular pains) from not taking proper care of myself whilst training.

If any physios reading this know what the pains might be please give me a shout!!!

meathcountysec

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I went from not being able to run 200metres to finishing the marathon in 16 weeks

Jeez, what pace was that at? :D:D:D:D:D:D

RayCun

He obviously had a poor nutrition strategy.


sorry, sorry

Krusty_Clown

bobbysands81 wrote: »

3 years and about 6 physios later I still wake up at night with pains down the right hand side of my right leg (muscular pains) from not taking proper care of myself whilst training.

It just seems like such a natural challenge because it has become so mainstream. 'Sure isn't everybody running a marathon these days.'. The truth is that the marathon is a challenge best attempted once one has years of 10ks, half marathons and other distance races completed beforehand, with many thousands of miles in the legs. Sure, you can fast-track your way to the marathon but the risk of injury and failure increases dramatically.

Spunderbungle

Right lads, need some honest advice.

Quick history - started running around October 2008 having never lifted a finger and being very overweight. Lost the bulk of 8 stone through running and circuits and ran my first 5k race in 2009 - the St Pats day run through Dublin. Caught the bug for running and even after I'd lost the weight, kept it up.

Decided as a nice climax to all the weight loss that I would aim to run four marathons in a year. That'd mean going from 20 stone in October 2008, to running four marathons in the year Oct 2009 to Oct 2010 :cool:. Not too fussed about the time, just if I could finish them all I'd be delighted. Going well so far, ran Dublin last year (4:10 ), London in April (4:11 :mad: - but with a stomach bug), Tromso in June (3:52 ) and booked in for Venice October 25th. (If you don't know Tromso, you should check it out - it's right at the top of Norway where there's 24 hour sunshine and the race is at midnight. Conditions are horrendous too - biting winds and lashing rain - it's awesome!).

So after Tromso in June I've had some problems with shin splints . Had to basically knock the running on the head for 6 weeks or so over July/August. Managed to get back running (slow) for two weeks before the Dublin half last weekend. Decided to shoot the lights by my own standards out on the first few miles (I know, I know ), then ran into problems around mile 6 with the shins. Was fairly knackered too. Slowed down, but the shins got worse. Ended up walking a bit in the last mile - partially the shins and partially cause I was knackered. Finished in 1:52 - which is perfectly respectable (PB is 1:43, so not terrible), but in significant pain :mad:

So now I'm wondering if I'm going to be able to finish this marathon in Venice . Went for a 6 miler this morning, very slow, and the shins were at me a good bit from about mile 4 onwards. If I rest much more at this stage, I'm worried about having the fitness to get over the line in October. Not fussed about a time in Venice - have accepted that it's not gonna be a PB.

Long read, I know - thanks for reading and appreciate any thoughts

RayCun

I'd go to a physio. Lots of new runners report shin pain because their legs aren't used to it, but you're not a new runner. Best to find out what the problem is, and then decide about your race.

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

I'd go to a physio. Lots of new runners report shin pain because their legs aren't used to it, but you're not a new runner. Best to find out what the problem is, and then decide about your race.

Shin pain affects those who are not new to running too (worn out shoes, ill-fitting shoes, over-training, hard surfaces, etc).. As per Ray's suggestion, get yourself booked into the Physio as soon as possible. In the meantime, Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation.....

Spunderbungle

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Shin pain affects those who are not new to running too (worn out shoes, ill-fitting shoes, over-training, hard surfaces, etc).. As per Ray's suggestion, get yourself booked into the Physio as soon as possible. In the meantime, Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation.....

Sorry, should have said - I'm seeing a physio weekly. She reckons I'll be just about ok - the more rest I get, the better the recovery, but the less fit I'll be on the day.

Thanks

jaytobe

Here's the decision...have the 20 miler on for the Cork to Cobh week-end in training for first DCM. Do I switch the 20mile to this week-end and run C2C at PMP? ...thoughts?

bobbysands81

Spunderbungle wrote: »

Sorry, should have said - I'm seeing a physio weekly. She reckons I'll be just about ok - the more rest I get, the better the recovery, but the less fit I'll be on the day.

Thanks

Try massaging the front of your legs yourself... softening up the small bit of muscle on the front of your shin may help.

xebec

jaytobe wrote: »

Here's the decision...have the 20 miler on for the Cork to Cobh week-end in training for first DCM. Do I switch the 20mile to this week-end and run C2C at PMP? ...thoughts?

I'm going to C2C that weekend too, plan is to run faster than PMP but not a huge amount. Depending on recovery from that race I'll probably go for 20 the week after to give a two week taper, but I generally recover well from long runs so that shouldn't be a problem.

Other side of my plan is that after tomorrow (touch wood) I'll have two 20's, a 19 and an 18 done already so the bulk of the work is done and I know that if I don't do that final 20 there shouldn't be too much of an issue...

Cindyss

Just another query on LSR/Taper, I am doing a 22 mile LSR this Sunday,
Followed by 15 mile PMP C2C on the 3rd of Oct.
That gives me 3 weeks to the DCM, I am following Hal Hidgon Inter 1.
He has 4 weeks out a 20 mile followed by a taper, But I am doing C2C 4 weeks out 15 miles not 20,
Should I run my LSR (supposed to be 12 miles) 3 weeks out a small bit longer or just follow my taper,
Hope you follow this ok, as a novice it is a bit daunting to see your milage go down instead of up close to the race day,
Thanks,

Gary

jaytobe

Cindyss...both HH Novice programs start the taper from 3wks out i.e. Oct 3rd w/e. It must work for first timers at least (which I am)....my dilema is whether to switch 20mile to this w/e and run C2C for prep.

Xebec, unfortunately I've never ran 20miles so slightly different..feeling good after 2x18s to date so have no issue with a 20mile this w/e and another 2 weeks out??

xebec

jaytobe wrote: »

Xebec, unfortunately I've never ran 20miles so slightly different..feeling good after 2x18s to date so have no issue with a 20mile this w/e and another 2 weeks out??

Ok, understand better now. I'd go 20 this weekend so, then C2C at PMP or close to it which is worth at least 17-18 miles at LSR pace followed by Hal's taper. Don't worry about trying to get another 20 miles in before Dublin, your base level of fitness is there and C2C will be a good workout for three weeks out.

jaytobe

Tks xebec, will aim for that.

I've put my PB over 10miles into Mcmillan to get my PMP....how real is that calculator..especially for a novice where PBs can be a memory!

xebec

jaytobe wrote: »

Tks xebec, will aim for that.

I've put my PB over 10miles into Mcmillan to get my PMP....how real is that calculator..especially for a novice where PBs can be a memory!

McMillan is a reasonable guide as to what you should be capable of. It's most accurate when you use a recent race time and the race is as close to target race distance as possible... But it's only an indicator - if I stick the 10 mile time from the Frank Duffy race 5 weeks ago into it it suggests a half marathon time which is 3.5 mins slower than what I did last week...

jaytobe

Any cheap wristwatches out there for those waiting to see if they really need a Garmin!?

Spunderbungle

Spunderbungle wrote: »

Right lads, need some honest advice.

Quick history - started running around October 2008 having never lifted a finger and being very overweight. Lost the bulk of 8 stone through running and circuits and ran my first 5k race in 2009 - the St Pats day run through Dublin. Caught the bug for running and even after I'd lost the weight, kept it up.

Decided as a nice climax to all the weight loss that I would aim to run four marathons in a year. That'd mean going from 20 stone in October 2008, to running four marathons in the year Oct 2009 to Oct 2010 :cool:. Not too fussed about the time, just if I could finish them all I'd be delighted. Going well so far, ran Dublin last year (4:10 ), London in April (4:11 :mad: - but with a stomach bug), Tromso in June (3:52 ) and booked in for Venice October 25th. (If you don't know Tromso, you should check it out - it's right at the top of Norway where there's 24 hour sunshine and the race is at midnight. Conditions are horrendous too - biting winds and lashing rain - it's awesome!).

So after Tromso in June I've had some problems with shin splints . Had to basically knock the running on the head for 6 weeks or so over July/August. Managed to get back running (slow) for two weeks before the Dublin half last weekend. Decided to shoot the lights by my own standards out on the first few miles (I know, I know ), then ran into problems around mile 6 with the shins. Was fairly knackered too. Slowed down, but the shins got worse. Ended up walking a bit in the last mile - partially the shins and partially cause I was knackered. Finished in 1:52 - which is perfectly respectable (PB is 1:43, so not terrible), but in significant pain :mad:

So now I'm wondering if I'm going to be able to finish this marathon in Venice . Went for a 6 miler this morning, very slow, and the shins were at me a good bit from about mile 4 onwards. If I rest much more at this stage, I'm worried about having the fitness to get over the line in October. Not fussed about a time in Venice - have accepted that it's not gonna be a PB.

Long read, I know - thanks for reading and appreciate any thoughts

Four miles this morning, blinding agony - I'm out

Great morning for it though, nice and crisp around the quays, nobody on the streets, overcast but not raining.

DangerMouse27

I started training for the Dublin Marathon in july 07 and ran it in Oct 07...5 HOURS 20 MINS OF HELL....! im since disgusted with my time,i should have put the effort in from that oct or nov and gotten a great reward with a deserved and good time. I suffered so bad. Took six months to re learn to get fast,a five hour shuffle is no marathon

meathcountysec

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

a five hour shuffle is no marathon

Don't say that. You'll upset me. That's my target.

rainbow kirby

meathcountysec wrote: »

Don't say that. You'll upset me. That's my target.

There's a difference between a 5 hour marathon for someone who has properly trained for it and normally runs at ~11min/mile pace, and a 5 hour marathon for someone who is completely unprepared, but could do 3:30-4:00 with proper training. One will be a much more pleasant experience than the other.

meathcountysec

rainbow kirby wrote: »

There's a difference between a 5 hour marathon for someone who has properly trained for it and normally runs at ~11min/mile pace, and a 5 hour marathon for someone who is completely unprepared, but could do 3:30-4:00 with proper training. One will be a much more pleasant experience than the other.

Feeling the love now....;):p

Krusty_Clown

jaytobe wrote: »

Any cheap wristwatches out there for those waiting to see if they really need a Garmin!?

Hi jaytobe, any decent stopwatch which supports laps/splits should do the job (along with a pacing band). Timex Ironman watches have been recommended in the past. This one from Argos has support for 30 laps, so you could record all of your splits from the marathon if you wanted to.

nachoqueen

re the shins, have you seen the physio? I wouldnt say you are totally out, let the expert make the call

jaytobe

nearly sure there was a cork to cobh thread on this...cant see link? No real info on BHAA website..

jaytobe

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi jaytobe, any decent stopwatch which supports laps/splits should do the job (along with a pacing band). Timex Ironman watches have been recommended in the past. This one from Argos has support for 30 laps, so you could record all of your splits from the marathon if you wanted to.

Nice one...quick question(as Argos were sold ou in Uk and Irl so searched Amazon). ...is a velcro stap better...less sweat, less movement?
even more choice

Krusty_Clown

jaytobe wrote: »

Nice one...quick question(as Argos were sold ou in Uk and Irl so searched Amazon). ...is a velcro stap better...less sweat, less movement?
even more choice

Sorry, to be honest I don't know a damn thing about Timex watches. Just picked one from the list that was cheaper than the others and had a 30 lap memory. Not a bad idea to use that as your criteria: Cheap, 26+ lap memory, big lap button, etc. The cheapest one in your Amazon list seems to fit the bill!

RubyK

jaytobe wrote: »

nearly sure there was a cork to cobh thread on this...cant see link? No real info on BHAA website..

Here's the link, it's in the events section http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056023354

Spunderbungle

nachoqueen wrote: »

re the shins, have you seen the physio? I wouldnt say you are totally out, let the expert make the call

Thing is though, even if the shins were magically better tomorrow, I haven't run properly in about 2 months. It's getting late to start training and build up the fitness again. Still in a lot of pain though - been seeing the physio regularly, she's banned me from running this week, then I've to do just two short runs next week. So I'll barely have the fitness to finish a marathon I reckon.

Though I suppose I could go over and sure if it takes me six hours so be it (if the shins get better that is).

Krusty_Clown

Spunderbungle wrote: »

Thing is though, even if the shins were magically better tomorrow, I haven't run properly in about 2 months. It's getting late to start training and build up the fitness again. Still in a lot of pain though - been seeing the physio regularly, she's banned me from running this week, then I've to do just two short runs next week. So I'll barely have the fitness to finish a marathon I reckon.

Though I suppose I could go over and sure if it takes me six hours so be it (if the shins get better that is).

Trust your own judgement. A marathon on zero training (even if walking the distance) is a bad idea, and will likely only increase your woes. Skip it. Start training for Dublin 2011.