Krav Maga Seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN

Kraver

Hi
Krav Maga Group in November 2010 will organize in Dublin a seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN - top Krav Maga and Israeli Ju-Jitsu expert.
All Kravers and other martial artist are very welcome.
Book you place now!
More information on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie

cletus

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

arybvtcw0eolkf

cletus wrote: »

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

A Jitz 'expert' from Israel perhaps?.

flynny51

cletus wrote: »

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

Think he means that he is Israeli and is a Ju-jitsu expert Rather than an "Israeli Jujitsu" expert.

Reminds me of this facebook page

"Let's eat Grandma" or "Let's eat, Grandma"- Punctuation saves lives.

cletus

fair enough, my bad.

("eats, shoots and leaves" should be compulsary reading for everybody )

Kraver

Krav Maga - Kapap - IDF -Hisardut- Israeli Ju-Jitsu, there are all similar to each other israeli army systems.Name... well it depends from... who is making money on it. System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD[6] and United States Special Operations Forces, French, German, Swedish, Polish army, special forces and security units.
More about history you can read on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Anyway the most imporant is that sysyem is based on really danger situations, very simple, very effective, easy to learn and easy to use in any kind of danger.
More about system you can find as well on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie
www.krav-maga.ie

Dyr

Kraver wrote: »

Krav Maga - Kapap - IDF -Hisardut- Israeli Ju-Jitsu, there are all similar to each other israeli army systems.Name... well it depends from... who is making money on it. System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD[6] and United States Special Operations Forces, French, German, Swedish, Polish army, special forces and security units.
More about history you can read on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Today is pedantic day: The NYPD does'nt have SWAT units. :pac:

yomchi

Kraver wrote: »

Anyway the most imporant is that sysyem is based on really danger situations, very simple, very effective, easy to learn and easy to use in any kind of danger.

Like boarding humanitarian ships and blasting all round. Sounds cool. :cool:

Doug Cartel

Bambi wrote: »

Today is pedantic day: The NYPD does'nt have SWAT units. :pac:

There's also two other styles that I can think of off the top of my head that claim to be the official style of the German special forces. I wonder when they find time to learn to fire their guns?

cletus

So Israeli jiu-jitsu actually exists? Or its another name for krav?

Kraver

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One of the creators of Krav Maga was Dennis Hanover. However he resigned call his version of the system "Krav Maga" to make a difference between him and other "creators" of Krav Maga, so first he called his version: "Israeli Ju-Jitsu", and after [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Hisardut"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Hebrew the word "Hisardut" literally means survival. Because survival is the bottom line in any fight, it's not how good your moves look, but who stays alive at the end of the struggle. In Israel it is known as Dennis Survival Ju Jitsu™ to honor its founder Dennis Hanover.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dr. Dennis Hanover is a 9th Degree Black Belt and the founder of the system
P.S. Part of this information has been taken from:
http://www.hisardut.com/
[/FONT]

Kraver

About israeli Ju-Jitsu and Dennis Hanover:
Dennis Survival Ju-Jitsu at Human Weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDw49dipDwc

Niall Keane

Is that a 9th degree black belt of the system he founded himself?

tallaght01

Interesting how the snotty comments are never left on the combatives seminar threads :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

tallaght01 wrote: »

Interesting how the snotty comments are never left on the combatives seminar threads :rolleyes:

I don't read those threads unless something is reported - whats up?.

tallaght01

Kane Cold Straightjacket wrote: »

I don't read those threads unless something is reported - whats up?.

The point I was making is that the urban combatives threads get treated with the utmost respect, when they are essentially the same thing. It's just an inherent bias against KM.

It's not a moderation thing, Mak, as I think you're one of the few reasonable mods on boards, hence this is the only forum I read these days.

Just a comment on people's wankiness. I've trained at the OPs club, and they train harder than any other club I've ever seen (in fairness my experiences are limited to kenpo in the past, and my current KM and wing chun clubs). They train and spar under maximum pressure.

yomchi

tallaght01 wrote: »

The point I was making is that the urban combatives threads get treated with the utmost respect, when they are essentially the same thing. It's just an inherent bias against KM.

It's not a moderation thing, Mak, as I think you're one of the few reasonable mods on boards, hence this is the only forum I read these days.

Just a comment on people's wankiness. I've trained at the OPs club, and they train harder than any other club I've ever seen (in fairness my experiences are limited to kenpo in the past, and my current KM and wing chun clubs). They train and spar under maximum pressure.

My post may have sounded unreasonable, however I'm sick of listening to KM bull**** about Israeli special forces and the like being trained in this. My point was, when these idiots boarded the humanitarian ships bound for Gaza they were dropped into a hand to hand situation where they just opened up on a load of people killing nine which disgusted the entire right thinking world, so every time I hear about Israeli special this that and the other and KM I roll my eyes to the heavens. It's bull ****.

As for Urban Combatives, please point me towards the part that says anything about so called special forces training in the UC curriculum, we're just a bunch of lads training and enjoying what we do. No conspiracies here.

Ug Lee

yomchi wrote: »

My post may have sounded unreasonable, however I'm sick of listening to KM bull**** about Israeli special forces and the like being trained in this. My point was, when these idiots boarded the humanitarian ships bound for Gaza they were dropped into a hand to hand situation where they just opened up on a load of people killing nine which disgusted the entire right thinking world, so every time I hear about Israeli special this that and the other and KM I roll my eyes to the heavens. It's bull ****.

As for Urban Combatives, please point me towards the part that says anything about so called special forces training in the UC curriculum, we're just a bunch of lads training and enjoying what we do. No conspiracies here.

I don't think Jon that you should link Krav Maga to Israeli policy. There is little or no connection.

By the way my physio told me today that his wife is training with you and she sings your praises.

yomchi

Ug Lee wrote: »

I don't think Jon that you should link Krav Maga to Israeli policy. There is little or no connection.

By the way my physio told me today that his wife is training with you and she sings your praises.

LOL well that's brightened my day up!

I'm not linking Israeli policy to KM, it's the nonsense you hear about these special forces attached to the Israeli army and KM. My point was that if the Israeli army are so up on this hand to hand system surely they wouldn't need to stick bullet holes in unarmed folk.

arybvtcw0eolkf

yomchi wrote: »

LOL well that's brightened my day up!

I'm not linking Israeli policy to KM, it's the nonsense you hear about these special forces attached to the Israeli army and KM. My point was that if the Israeli army are so up on this hand to hand system surely they wouldn't need to stick bullet holes in unarmed folk.

Jon, what the Israeli soldiers done once attacked onboard that ship was what you and anyone else in the situation would have done - attacked back, and very hard.

Its nothing to do with KM - tbh, I've posted this before - I've trained KM in Israel with the IDF and there's not one IDF soldier I know who confessed any great confidence in it.

To put it bluntly, if my government were criminal & wreckless enough to put me on board a ship like that and my comrades & I were attacked, I'd have shot back too - any soldier would, and its nothing to do with any special forces training either.

Lads, if you want to train K.M. for the craic do it. But don't kid yourselves that its got some kinda super power's just because its sold as an Israeli self defence system - because when the IDF go into attack mode they use force a million times greater.

Doug Cartel

Well it's the special forces/swat team marketing in general that gets to me - I don't care what country it's linked with. These guys operate in squads with firearms in very different situations to the ones I'm likely to face in my day to day business. Their training just isn't relevant to a civilian like me.

I just wish the marketing guys would focus on what the classes are about.

yomchi

Kane Cold Straightjacket wrote: »

.
Its nothing to do with KM

My point exactly Mak

cletus

I just wanted to know what Israeli ju jitsu was

yomchi

cletus wrote: »

I just wanted to know what Israeli ju jitsu was

Well now you know, it's not what the Israeli army does

Niall Keane

So I finish up training tonight, I'm in the changing room some of my guys are asking me about a world championship I fought in and some vids on YouTube I hadn't seen, and a km guy announces that sanshou is not for him as he'd be disqualified once he kicked his opponent in the balls, tore his eyes out and bit his neck. I guess he was letting me know that he had onagi and could kill me with a thought? Where do you start? I just raised my eyebrows and smiled.

tallaght01

The special forces malarky means very little to me. But it's true, so they're entitled to market it.

Many many combatives instructors go on about training police/army units etc too.

Presumably these units use KM because it's easy to learn and it's pretty crude. That's a marketable commodity. I know it rubs some of the TMA people the wrong way, but you're going to have to learn to deal with it, as KM is becoming huge.

I happily cross train in KM and Wing Chun, and they both bring different things to the table.

I don't know what the animosity is towards KM, based on who uses it, is all about. I presume these ethical stances will be forgotten when judging TMAs like kenpo and Silat that have been used by armed forces in Indonesia and China with horrific human rights records.

I don't see why KM is always singled out for attack, when other combatives courses are embraced in their entirety. If its simply to do with all the special forces claims, well KM is far from alone. Look at the website for Kelly mcCann's stuff. Lee Morrison advertises on his site that he's trained naval reserves and police. Mick Coup talks on his website about teaching "elite military personnell". So let's knock the idea on the head that KM instructors are the only ones prone to a bit of hyperbole.

KM involves techniques, fitness and sparring. Same as what mots of the rest of you do. The world is big enough for everyone, in my opinion, and this negativity towards KM is just petty.

Doug Cartel

tallaght01 wrote: »

The special forces malarky means very little to me. But it's true, so they're entitled to market it.

The OP claimed this guy's system is used by the NYPD's SWAT unit. Problem is the NYPD don't have a SWAT unit. Am I being a pedant, well slightly, but it gives me pause to question whether this system really is used by any of these other forces.

Presumably these units use KM because it's easy to learn and it's pretty crude.

Let's take a look at one of the guy's videos, shall we?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnZ0sfOiuIM

Crude and easy to learn?

tallaght01

Doug Cartel wrote: »

The OP claimed this guy's system is used by the NYPD's SWAT unit. Problem is the NYPD don't have a SWAT unit. Am I being a pedant, well slightly, but it gives me pause to question whether this system really is used by any of these other forces.

Let's take a look at one of the guy's videos, shall we?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnZ0sfOiuIM

Crude and easy to learn?

To be fair, the OP

A) gave a referenced link to an article about the use of KM by an NYPD "SWAT" team. OK, so they call theselves ESU or whatever, but they carry out the SWAT function for the NYPD, if the semantics really matter that much.

Using that video to prove that KM isn't easy to learn is the equivalent of showing a montage of Ronaldo's finest moments to persuade kids that soccer is a very difficult sport to learn.

I don't mind defending KM on the basis of what it's actually about. I, unlike many people involved in martial arts, am very open about the limitations of what I train (in fact last convo I had about KM involved me talking to a mate about where it falls down).

But arguing about what the name of a SWAT unit is really doesn't get us anywhere in that debate, and is just about trying to put another style down.

Like I always say, I train in KM for fun. In a bad situation in the street, if you can strike or grapple well, are used to sparring and are used to taking the odd clatter, then you might just get out of it in 1 piece. That goes for KM, or whatever style other want to claim is the best for dealing with aggro.

EDIT: Just to add, I'd rather KM didn't market the special forces stuff so much, either. I think it;s irrelevant. But it does get bums on seats in fairness. Though where I train there;s never any mention of that stuff. The Irish KM clubs (of which only one or 2 are IKMF clubs anyway, are terrible for it)

Doug Cartel

tallaght01 wrote: »

To be fair, the OP

A) gave a referenced link to an article about the use of KM by an NYPD "SWAT" team. OK, so they call theselves ESU or whatever, but they carry out the SWAT function for the NYPD, if the semantics really matter that much.

He cites a wikipedia article that in turn cites Time Out magazine.

Using that video to prove that KM isn't easy to learn is the equivalent of showing a montage of Ronaldo's finest moments to persuade kids that soccer is a very difficult sport to learn.

It's the guy who's giving the seminar, that's what he put up.

tallaght01

Doug Cartel wrote: »

He cites a wikipedia article that in turn cites Time Out magazine.

That's what they call a reference.

Doug Cartel wrote: »

It's the guy who's giving the seminar, that's what he put up.

The stuff he does in the gi is not KM, unless it's some weird style that he made up.

KM is very simple to learn. If Ronado was giving a class to some youngsters, or apub team, would you show a montage of his finest pieces of skill an expect him to teach that? Or to use it to try and prove that soccer is too hard to learn.

Honestly, I'm getting embarrassed to be involved in this argument. Like I said, I'm always happy to be involved in discussion about KMs merits. But this argument is just about desperately trying to discredit a very very good KM club by any means possible.

Doug Cartel

tallaght01 wrote: »

That's what they call a reference.

Yes, a reference to Time Out magazine.

The stuff he does in the gi is not KM, unless it's some weird style that he made up.

Again, he's the guy giving the seminar. If what he's doing isn't KM, you need to take it up with him, not me.

If Ronado was giving a class to some youngsters, or apub team, would you show a montage of his finest pieces of skill an expect him to teach that? Or to use it to try and prove that soccer is too hard to learn.

You know, what I'm not actually that big a fotball fan. I don't really know enough about Ronaldo's style of play to comment on that. Football is a bit far off martial arts anyway. How about we compare it with a Kosei Inoue highlight video? (After all, he is the David Beckham of the judo world.) In that video Inoue is going to be doing pretty much the exact same things as anyone with a few months of judo, he's just going to be doing them a whole lot better.

Honestly, I'm getting embarrassed to be involved in this argument. Like I said, I'm always happy to be involved in discussion about KMs merits. But this argument is just about desperately trying to discredit a very very good KM club by any means possible.

Oh, the moral high-ground. I've always wondered what it's like up there.