Krav Maga Seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 11:01am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Yes, a reference to Time Out magazine.

Again, he's the guy giving the seminar. If what he's doing isn't KM, you need to take it up with him, not me.

You know, what I'm not actually that big a fotball fan. I don't really know enough about Ronaldo's style of play to comment on that. Football is a bit far off martial arts anyway. How about we compare it with a Kosei Inoue highlight video? (After all, he is the David Beckham of the judo world.) In that video Inoue is going to be doing pretty much the exact same things as anyone with a few months of judo, he's just going to be doing them a whole lot better.

Oh, the moral high-ground. I've always wondered what it's like up there.

So you won't believe something because it;s in a magazine, but you don't believe me that the stuff in a demonstration youtube video isn't all KM, even when the guy who posted it says it's not.

Jaysis.

As you don't know much about Ronaldo, here's a video of him, You can compare that with the grass roots footie video shown below it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPHWpkZbWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArxGbEelyc

Like I said, this is obviously a nonsense argument at this stage. But I'm more than happy to post again if someone wants to talk about actual KM. Otherwise I'm done.

cletus · 13-08-2010 11:41am

I know very little about km, and on this thread Israeli ju-jitsu came up. now the guy in the video did some of his stuff in a gi, so it could be supposed that this was the latter. however the op claimed that its the same thing, just marketed under a different name, cause it was a break-away group

We'll work, then, on the assumption that the techniques demo'ed in the fatiques etc is the km element. I stopped watching the video when Mr Elghanayan attacked two opponents with the butt of his rifle, and side-kicked the third in the face

Doug Cartel · 13-08-2010 11:47am

tallaght01 wrote: »

So you won't believe something because it;s in a magazine,

It's just that the either the OP didn't read the source he quoted, or the source - an event listings magazine - got their facts wrong. I wonder where he got the idea that the other groups were using this training.

but you don't believe me that the stuff in a demonstration youtube video isn't all KM, even when the guy who posted it says it's not.

I have no problem believing this isn't pure KM, whatever that is, but it is the guy who's giving the seminar. This is what he does.

You keep saying that you only want to talk about KM, but you also say that this guy isn't KM - so what's your problem with this thread?

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 11:47am

cletus wrote: »

I know very little about km, and on this thread Israeli ju-jitsu came up. now the guy in the video did some of his stuff in a gi, so it could be supposed that this was the latter. however the op claimed that its the same thing, just marketed under a different name, cause it was a break-away group

We'll work, then, on the assumption that the techniques demo'ed in the fatiques etc is the km element. I stopped watching the video when Mr Elghanayan attacked two opponents with the butt of his rifle, and side-kicked the third in the face

Yea the poster of the video says it's a demo of KM and israeli JJ, whatever that is. As KM is specifically gi-less and doesn't involve most of the stuff yer man does in his gi, then it's safe enough to assume that's the ju jitsu part of the demo.

Have to say, though, that Israeli Ju-jitsu is a new one on me.

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 11:49am

Doug Cartel wrote: »

It's just that the either the OP didn't read the source he quoted, or the source - an event listings magazine - got their facts wrong. I wonder where he got the idea that the other groups were using this training.

I have no problem believing this isn't pure KM, whatever that is, but it is the guy who's giving the seminar. This is what he does.

You keep saying that you only want to talk about KM, but you also say that this guy isn't KM - so what's your problem with this thread?

I never said the guy doesn't do KM. He's coming to Dublin to do a KM seminar. The video shows him doing KM and ju-jitsu. I don't know what else I can say to make that clearer.

EDIT: If you really care about whether KM is used by funky police and miltary units (I couldn't care less) then the IKMF has some letters of thanks from SWAT units and special forces units on their website http://www.krav-maga.com/reference.html

cletus · 13-08-2010 12:45pm

Kraver wrote: »

Hi
Krav Maga Group in November 2010 will organize in Dublin a seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN - top Krav Maga and Israeli Ju-Jitsu expert.
All Kravers and other martial artist are very welcome.
Book you place now!
More information on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie

cletus wrote: »

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

Kraver wrote: »

Krav Maga - Kapap - IDF -Hisardut- Israeli Ju-Jitsu, there are all similar to each other israeli army systems.Name... well it depends from... who is making money on it. System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD [6] and United States Special Operations Forces, French, German, Swedish, Polish army, special forces and security units.
More about history you can read on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Anyway the most imporant is that sysyem is based on really danger situations, very simple, very effective, easy to learn and easy to use in any kind of danger.
More about system you can find as well on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie
www.krav-maga.ie

Kraver wrote: »

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One of the creators of Krav Maga was Dennis Hanover. However he resigned call his version of the system "Krav Maga" to make a difference between him and other "creators" of Krav Maga, so first he called his version: "Israeli Ju-Jitsu", and after [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Hisardut"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Hebrew the word "Hisardut" literally means survival. Because survival is the bottom line in any fight, it's not how good your moves look, but who stays alive at the end of the struggle. In Israel it is known as Dennis Survival Ju Jitsu™ to honor its founder Dennis Hanover.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dr. Dennis Hanover is a 9th Degree Black Belt and the founder of the system
P.S. Part of this information has been taken from:
http://www.hisardut.com/
[/FONT]

The OP, the guy who I presume is bringing over ROY ELGHANAYAN, has stated that Israeli ju-jitsu is basically km under a different name

The video shows ROY ELGHANAYAN doing a series of techniques in both fatigues and gi. To somebody not having trained in, nor well versed in the history of, krav maga, this would lead me to believe that the stuff in the video is KM

Could the op possibly weigh in here with his understanding of the above video?

After having a look, it seems that the guy organising this is Robert Bednarski, who has been mentioned on boards before as a fully qualified instructor, so presumably he knows what he's talking about re km?

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 2:09pm

I think it's just a case of Robert being wrong about that. Hisardut is different to KM. So, if Hisardt is the same a IJJ, then it's not KM. Also it's done in a gi. No proper KM is practiced in a gi.

Sid_Justice · 13-08-2010 2:15pm

ah that old chestnut. if someone shows me something i don't like about my martial art/system i say that's not real/proper.

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 2:26pm

Sid_Justice wrote: »

ah that old chestnut. if someone shows me something i don't like about my martial art/system i say that's not real/proper.

so why do you think it's KM? Considering the video is a demo of KM AND IJJ. The stuff in fatigues is KM. The stuff in the gi isn't. Unless you know something I don't.

Or else it's just a wanky anti-KM comment. But that wouldn't happen here, obviously.

Kraver · 13-08-2010 3:22pm

Dear Debaters
1.The You Tube film attached above is only a presentation of amazing body skills of ROY ELGHANAYAN and contains couple of presentation from different places and contains techniques of Krav Maga, Kapap, Aikido, to show that this guy is not a peace of wood. Krav Maga doesn't contain high kick and any techniques of "sitting on the head" (not in the standing position :-) )
2. Information: " System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD [6] and United States Special Operations Forces," were taken from Wikipedia.
3.Krav Maga is still an evolving system, so there are couple of different version of KM. But idea of this system is the same: Maximum easy for defender and maximum damage and effort for attacker.
4.This talk about attack on humanitarian boat and connecting that to Krav Maga, with respect to all debaters, has no sens.
Thousands of people is making for example Chinese Martial Arts but nobody is connecting it, let say with Chinese regime and breaking of human rights.
Israeli and international instructors are teaching Krav Maga with respect to any culture, there are no barriers to teach anybody

Thanks for attending of this thread and all of you, ladies and gentlemen, Kravers or non-kravers, with experience in fight systems or martial arts or without experience are very welcome on seminar.

Regards
Kraver

cletus · 13-08-2010 3:54pm

tallaght01 wrote: »

so why do you think it's KM? Considering the video is a demo of KM AND IJJ. The stuff in fatigues is KM. The stuff in the gi isn't. Unless you know something I don't.

Because the qualified instructor organising this seminar has stated, twice, that its the same thing

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 4:09pm

cletus wrote: »

Because the qualified instructor organising this seminar has stated, twice, that its the same thing

I said before I think Robert got that wrong, and outlined the reasons why.

If you watch the video aswell it says "Witness Roy Elghanayan, Israeli Special Forces top Krav Maga instructor, demonstrate his expertise in Krav Maga and Israeli Ju-Jitsu".

I think the "and" gives it away.

cletus · 13-08-2010 4:13pm

One of the creators of Krav Maga was Dennis Hanover. However he resigned call his version of the system "Krav Maga" to make a difference between him and other "creators" of Krav Maga, so first he called his version: "Israeli Ju-Jitsu", and after "Hisardut"
In Hebrew the word "Hisardut" literally means survival. Because survival is the bottom line in any fight, it's not how good your moves look, but who stays alive at the end of the struggle. In Israel it is known as Dennis Survival Ju Jitsu™ to honor its founder Dennis Hanover.

This was Roberts quote as to the origin of Israeli ju jitsu. He describes it as another version of km.

Also you never actually stated why you think that a fully qualified instructor in km would be wrong or confused or whatever re km

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 4:16pm

cletus wrote: »

This was Roberts quote as to the origin of Israeli ju jitsu. He describes it as another version of km.

Also you never actually stated why you think that a fully qualified instructor in km would be wrong or confused or whatever re km

I think you need to look beyond your fixation with Robert's quote. Let's recap again.

KM isn't performed in a gi.

The video refers to KM AND IJJ.

The stuff he does in a gi is not KM.

Robert also said that IJJ is the same as Hisardut, which is sure as hell different to KM.

I don't know what else I can say to make that any clearer.

cletus · 13-08-2010 4:30pm

I dont have a fixation, I'm just pointing out what a qualified instructor has said. I personally have no knowledge of any of these arts. I'm not backing up his statements, but your not offering anything other than "he's wrong".

I originally wanted to find out what Israeli ju jitsu is, and Robert is the only one to offer an explanation

Doug Cartel · 13-08-2010 4:30pm

Perhaps Robert could clarify if this going to be a Krav Maga seminar, or Israeli Jujitsu, high flying fight choreography, or some mixture of the three?

cletus · 13-08-2010 4:31pm

tut tut Doug, was that a wanky statement?

tallaght01 · 13-08-2010 4:34pm

cletus wrote: »

I dont have a fixation, I'm just pointing out what a qualified instructor has said. I personally have no knowledge of any of these arts. I'm not backing up his statements, but your not offering anything other than "he's wrong".

I originally wanted to find out what Israeli ju jitsu is, and Robert is the only one to offer an explanation

he said it's the precurson to Hisardut. Like I said above, that's different to KM. I don't know much about it, but there's a link below.

http://www.hisardut.com/

cletus wrote: »

tut tut Doug, was that a wanky statement?

:rolleyes:

Doug Cartel · 13-08-2010 4:38pm

cletus wrote: »

tut tut Doug, was that a wanky statement?

Not this time. I actually think it would be the quickest way to clear things up between you and tallaght01.

cletus · 13-08-2010 4:42pm

Ok, i had a look at the hirsadut website, but to be honest I dont see anything different that km, urban combatives, rbsd etc. they all seem to market themselve to the "sport is no good" paranoia set, thats why i was hoping that somebody on this thread could clarify

The statement below was taken from your link, and sums up this training for me

Armed burglary, rape, murder, home intrusion, aggravated assault, carjacking, hijacking, kidnapping, suicidal terrorism and natural disasters are on the rise. People from all walks of life are exposed to these threats. The Hisardut® system provides the critical information and proven solutions necessary to survive these threats

Personally i have never been exposed to these dangers, maybe I'm one of the lucky few, but it seems to prey on peoples fears

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I cant really see any fundametal difference between km and hirsadut other than the creator and name

Doug Cartel · 13-08-2010 4:44pm

It protects you from natural disasters! How can I not be expected to make a wanky comment about that?

Kraver · 14-08-2010 4:10pm

1.
I was asking Roy to prepare program for two days:
Roy is going to teach only Krav Maga techniques so no flying kicks, no sitting on the head ect.
Day first:
knife and gun disarming included all unconfortable situation for example when you sitting
Day second:
long gun disarming, using knife in self-defence also when attacker is armed.
2. About Krav Maga and Hisardut and Kapap, Lotar etc.
Dennis Hannover in "Human Weapon" is presented as... Krav Maga Expert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDw49dipDwc
There is no such as ONLY ONE KRAV MAGA version.
There is NOBODY such as ONLY ONE SUCCEESSOR OF IMI LICHTENFELD.
This system has been created by collecting of experience and hard work of hundreds of people.
Unfortunately commercial brain wash cased that we forget today about other co-creators:
Gadi Skornik,Dennis Hanover, Chaim Peer, André Zeitun,
Their hard work was a base of this excellent system.
The name: Krav Maga and Hisardut and Kapap, Lotar, hagana atsmit,
like I've said before is depended from version and... who is making money on it.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-08-2010 4:39pm

Doug Cartel wrote: »

It protects you from natural disasters! How can I not be expected to make a wanky comment about that?

Give it over, its getting a little tiring at this stage - if you want to make "Wanky comments" we can propose setting up a **** forum for you. In the mean time let the thread continue.

corkma · 14-08-2010 8:01pm

Do the army actually train a lot of hand to hand combat?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 15-08-2010 11:30am

corkma wrote: »

Do the army actually train a lot of hand to hand combat?

No.

voytek34 · 10-10-2010 8:08pm

Hello. I m already calling to organaizer this seminar in Dublin and I will be on 100 % there. I m think it will be great time and I cant wait to meet Roy in Dublin.

voytek34 · 02-11-2010 9:08pm

I m found good movie with Roy on youtube :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnys8B5A1so&feature=related
it will be great weekend:)

Kraver · 08-11-2010 5:50pm

Hi All Kravers
Due to some circumstances we had to change Roy Elghanayan Seminar
training's hours:

SATURDAY
Instructor seminar:
9:00 - 13.00
Public seminar
14:00 - 18:00

SUNDAY:
Public seminar:
9:00 - 13:00
Instructor seminar
14:00 - 18:00

Sorry for inconvenience
Regards
Robert
P.S.
Due to all the question about prices:
PUBLIC SEMINAR - 90 EURO FOR TWO DAYS
INSTRUCTOR SEMINAR
(FOR INSTRUCTORS AND ADVANCED STUDENTS)-350 EURO FOR TWO DAYS
You'll find more information (time, address,maps, hotels links) on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie

Kraver · 08-11-2010 6:41pm

Hi All Kravers
Due to some circumstances we had to change Roy Elghanayan Seminar
training's hours:

So;
SATURDAY
Instructor seminar:
9:00 - 13.00
Public seminar
14:00 - 18:00

SUNDAY:
Public seminar:
9:00 - 13:00
Instructor seminar
14:00 - 18:00
Sorry for inconvenience

Due to all other questions about seminar:
Date:13 & 14 November 2010
PUBLIC SEMINAR - 90 EURO FOR TWO DAYS
INSTRUCTOR SEMINAR (FOR INSTRUCTORS AND ADVANCED STUDENTS ) 350 EURO FOR TWO DAYS
All kravers and non-kravers are very welcome on public seminar

Bellow you'll find the links to Roy Elghanayan's clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnZ0sfOiuIM&feature=player_embedded
and his web
www.kravmagala.com
and to the organizer
www.kravmagagroup.ie
Information about hotels (close to the training hall), maps, phone numbers, you'll find on the same web.

Regards
Robert

Kraver · 16-11-2010 4:08pm

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC SEMINAR ! THANKS TO ROY !

Students of Krav Maga Group, Worldwide Krav Maga, Krav Maga Ireland, Urban Krav Maga, and many others attended this seminar together!

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE SEMINAR
SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR FRIENDS:
Elaine Bannon,Michal Borek,Eoin Campbell from W.K.M.
ALSO SPECIAL THANKS TO THOSE WHO HELPED TO ACCOMPLISH THIS SEMINAR !
GREAT JOB GUYS !!!
PHOTO GALLERY SOON !!!

Krav Maga Seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN

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