Girlfriend totally cut off the dole, because she's living with me...

joker77

Hi there,

As the title says, that is the situation - and I'm looking to find out does anyone know anything we can do about it?

Here's the background:

• She worked for 10+ years full time
• Got made redundant around April 2009
• Was on the dole for a year (while searching for a job)
• While she was on the dole, she was never eligible for any rent allowance, because she was 'co-habitating'
• After a year, they cut her off completely

A little bit more info on what happened when they cut her off:
From the time she started receiving the dole last year, she was never eligible for rent allowance - we were living in a 1 bed apartment, and although we weren't married that was seen as co-habitating.
When they cut her off, the guy said she had to bring in a bank statement and a payslip from me, but as long as I hadn't got 20 grand in savings (which I didn't), that she wouldn't be cut off.
She went back with the info, and they cut her off completely. That was April or May this year.
She'd never planned on being on the dole this long, had been looking for a job the whole time and kept hoping that she would get one soon and wouldn't have to worry too much about it. She went back to them recently to see if there was any way to get any assistance, by way of going on a FAS course, but she was told no - basically as long as she was living with me (who they called 'her husband' three times despite being corrected each time), she was ineligible.

Is there anything we can do in this situation?

To me is feels very unfair that the Social Welfare system can look on people as 'co-habitating', but the PAYE system only has rules for married couples.

Thanks

The_Conductor

Once your income is over a certain amount- and you are living with your girlfriend, she is seen as a dependent- and your means are jointly assessed when means testing for social welfare occurs. There is very little difference in the manner a husband and wife are treated- if the husband looses his job, his wife's income, which may be modest in nature- is part of their joint assessment when means testing for social welfare entitlements.

The manner in which social welfare payments are made here in Ireland seriously needs to be reformed- as in your case- as in the case of a large number of people- it simply doesn't make sense for one person to be out at work- supporting a dependent at home- when the joint gross social welfare entitlements, were both of the couple out of work, greatly exceeds the net earning capacity of either one of the couple on their own.......

Ps- with individualisation of the tax bands- there are very few tax credits which are transferable between a married couple any longer (you can't transfer the PAYE tax credit, the lower rate cut-off, expenses etc). It used to be fact that there was a massive difference between being assessed as individuals or jointly assessed as a couple- now the difference is minimal.

joker77

Ok what about this situation:

We split up. We are living in a 2 bed house, 1 person per bedroom. She would like some assistance from the Social Welfare as she is receiving no money from me.

What happens then?

Xiney

They're unlikely to believe that you have indeed split up if you're still living in the same house.

joker77

Xiney wrote: »

They're unlikely to believe that you have indeed split up if you're still living in the same house.

There is no legal entity 'boyfriend-girlfriend'. If we say we are no longer co-habitating, then can they still 'choose' to believe what they like?

January

Yes they can, especially since they have proof that you used to date and are still living together they'd be very suspicious.

Celvapan

joker77, I am in a similar to what your gf is in...Its awful and I really feel for you and your gf.

Myself and my bf were living together and a few months back, he was made redundant but found another job in a different county and so moved out. I carried on the lease here myself as I had a good job and I could afford it but now I cant afford it as I was made redundant last week. I am trying my best to get another job and have applied for 30-40 jobs, none of which I have gotten anywhere with so far. I signed on last week for the first time.

I am living on my own at the moment and I have been told that my rent is too high to qualify for rent suppliment and have been told by the community welfare officer to ask my landlord to reduce the rent. I don't think the landlord will reduce the rent (who can blame him) to the rate that the CWO thinks he should (I dont know what land the CWO is living in)...I am meeting him this weekend to discuss. I dont know what to do...I have been thinking of moving down to my bf, but he recons that he will be made redundant before christmas again so he wont be staying where he is. If I got a job tomorrow I would move to wherever the job is, so I am unable to take on a long term lease if I move out of here, and every house i look at wants professionals only...Also if we did move back in together, I would loose all my entitlements since I would be means tested based on my bf. It really is an impossible situation and things need to change....like we have no legal obligation to each other and it really isn't fair that a boyfriend or girlfriend should have to "support" their other half when they are not married. I am finding it hard enough to sign on the dole and get my stanps back and I certainly do not want to be taking money from my bf who will probably be in my situation again at christmas. It makes me so mad. I can only imagine how your gf feels esp since she was working for 10+ years a TOTALLY unfair system!

wmpdd3

In the same situation, my OH's stamps ran out in May, so with my wage slip he was assessed to be entitled to a rate of €35, per week. No chance of any further benefit, no rent allowance, med card, fuel allowance, nothing.

As we are co-habiting I pay tax at the full single person rate. So after tax we have less than €196 each!!

I will be going on maternity leave in 5 weeks time, I planned to have some savings to cover us while I'm not earning but I had no chance to save while earning less than someone on the dole with no extra benefits.

Great situation!

tenchi-fan

Unemployment benefit only lasts a year, and unemployment assistance is a means-tested benefit.

In a way it is unfair that someone who worked so long only gets a year's benefit, granted. Which is why I get so annoyed that the the government takes so much in tax and even dirt.. making it virtually impossible to accumulate a safety net in the event of unemployment!

However couples save money by living together and when both are working they can have a pretty nice disposable income and may be able to accumulate savings. Unlike two total strangers living together, a couple's income and savings are usually pooled.

From the government's point of view, why would they throw €10k into a household that already has a decent income.

Celvapan

Celvapan wrote: »

joker77, I am in a similar to what your gf is in...Its awful and I really feel for you and your gf.

Myself and my bf were living together and a few months back, he was made redundant but found another job in a different county and so moved out. I carried on the lease here myself as I had a good job and I could afford it but now I cant afford it as I was made redundant last week. I am trying my best to get another job and have applied for 30-40 jobs, none of which I have gotten anywhere with so far. I signed on last week for the first time.

I am living on my own at the moment and I have been told that my rent is too high to qualify for rent suppliment and have been told by the community welfare officer to ask my landlord to reduce the rent. I don't think the landlord will reduce the rent (who can blame him) to the rate that the CWO thinks he should (I dont know what land the CWO is living in)...I am meeting him this weekend to discuss. I dont know what to do...I have been thinking of moving down to my bf, but he recons that he will be made redundant before christmas again so he wont be staying where he is. If I got a job tomorrow I would move to wherever the job is, so I am unable to take on a long term lease if I move out of here, and every house i look at wants professionals only...Also if we did move back in together, I would loose all my entitlements since I would be means tested based on my bf. It really is an impossible situation and things need to change....like we have no legal obligation to each other and it really isn't fair that a boyfriend or girlfriend should have to "support" their other half when they are not married. I am finding it hard enough to sign on the dole and get my stanps back and I certainly do not want to be taking money from my bf who will probably be in my situation again at christmas. It makes me so mad. I can only imagine how your gf feels esp since she was working for 10+ years a TOTALLY unfair system!

If you're on the dole and you can't afford where you are living, perhaps it might be time to look for a cheaper place?

Spongy Cabbage

myself and my now ex bf are still living together, until i have money sorted it has just worked out easier to stay put in the 2bed room apt where i am for now, same goes for him. he's on the dole and i'm waiting on my claim to come through. once it does come through we're both gone.

I got a phonecall this morning from the social welfare who were running through my claim today, just to double check what my cohabiting situation is. I had my means test in june and had shown proof to them during that test of a loan i got to tie me over until my claim sorted through, and that i do not get any financial help from him. I was told that my claim would be sorted through in regards to me getting the full amount and my ex not getting extra money for me on his payment.

Celvapan

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

If you're on the dole and you can't afford where you are living, perhaps it might be time to look for a cheaper place?

I am looking for a new place...but as I explained in the last message...the places that are available want "professionals only" or "no rent allowance accepted"...Where do you go from there? Also as I explained, I am waiting to hear back on about 20+ jobs at present located all around Ireland so where do I move to??? How do I get out of taking a house for less than 6 months? It might sound pretty straight forward but I can't afford to be moving every few months and loosing deposits every time I get laid off coz of the unemployment crisis that we are in!

notsobusy

I think it's a terrible situation and the Social Welfare really need to look at their system about co habiting couples.

Celvapan

tenchi-fan wrote: »

However couples save money by living together and when both are working they can have a pretty nice disposable income and may be able to accumulate savings. Unlike two total strangers living together, a couple's income and savings are usually pooled.

From the government's point of view, why would they throw €10k into a household that already has a decent income.

I have to disagree with this. Myself and my bf were living together before we were both made redundant (he has since moved out). However when we did live together, we split the rent and bills just like 2 strangers living together. Our income was not pooled and I don't see why it should be...we are not married. His money is his own and my money was my own. I don't want any of his money and why should the government force him to give it to me?!

Fallen Buckshot

If it were a brother and sister sharing a flat (room mates) would they be treated the same way ?

The_Conductor

Fallen Buckshot wrote: »

If it were a brother and sister sharing a flat (room mates) would they be treated the same way ?

If it was decided that one was an adult dependent of the other- yes, they would be treated in an identical manner.

Spongy Cabbage

notsobusy wrote: »

I think it's a terrible situation and the Social Welfare really need to look at their system about co habiting couples.

I agree, they really should have another look at it. Noone should be classed as a couple unless married. Boyfriend and girlfriend situations defo shouldnt be classed as a cohabiting couple anyway. I know all relationships can end regardless of marriage or not, but being married is more concrete and really is the only time most couples begin to share money!

notsobusy

If I moved in with my boyfriend and I didn't get anything on the dole we would starve.
He's a farmer but farming has gotten so bad that he is in very bad debt and has no income every month after he's paid his bills....

joker77

I think my main gripe with this is the inconsistancy.

On the PAYE side - you are either Single or Married in relation to Tax Credits (I've even rang the Revenue to ensure this is the case).

On the Social Welfare side - they have a third option - 'co-habitating'

This is what is really frustrating for me.

Spongy Cabbage

joker77 wrote: »

I think my main gripe with this is the inconsistancy.

On the PAYE side - you are either Single or Married in relation to Tax Credits (I've even rang the Revenue to ensure this is the case).

On the Social Welfare side - they have a third option - 'co-habitating'

This is what is really frustrating for me.

I find this very frustrating aswell. it seems no matter who youre living with your classed as cohabiting and the person who's working should automatically pay for you. you should be either married or single simple as.

Its the same with my claim at the minute living with an ex yet he should pay for me?! dont know what planet the social welfare is on that that happens, they just dont seem to want to give people what they're truely owed and want to hand out as little money as possible.

I also understand what Celvapan is saying, id like to move out myself but i cant afford a new deposit until my claim is sorted. its a vicious circle! :mad:

mercer

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

If you're on the dole and you can't afford where you are living, perhaps it might be time to look for a cheaper place?

quite the helpful post

Edgedinblue

So if it was decided by the SW that one was an adult dependent of the other how much extra a week is added to the others pay?

Balagan

Fallen Buckshot wrote: »

If it were a brother and sister sharing a flat (room mates) would they be treated the same way ?

Means testing only takes into account spouses/partners incomes and, in the case of those under 25's living in their family home, their parents/step parents incomes.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/jobseekers-allowance

Mr. Presentable

If one is not entitled to social support while co-habitting, is the other entitled to additional tax credits for having a dependant partner?

hobochris

I think until someone takes the state to court, to set a legal precedent defining two people co inhabiting as separate legal entities, then this Lazy SW system will continue to be implemented.

Balagan

wmpdd3 wrote: »

In the same situation, my OH's stamps ran out in May, so with my wage slip he was assessed to be entitled to a rate of €35, per week. No chance of any further benefit, no rent allowance, med card, fuel allowance, nothing.

As we are co-habiting I pay tax at the full single person rate. So after tax we have less than €196 each!!

I will be going on maternity leave in 5 weeks time, I planned to have some savings to cover us while I'm not earning but I had no chance to save while earning less than someone on the dole with no extra benefits.

Great situation!

Have you checked if you would be eligible for Family Income Supplement after your baby is born?
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/social-welfare-payments-to-families-and-children/family_income_supplement

Balagan

Edgedinblue wrote: »

So if it was decided by the SW that one was an adult dependent of the other how much extra a week is added to the others pay?

Jobseeker Allowance rates from January 2010
Jobseeker's Allowance maximum rate for people aged 25 or over
Increase for a Qualified Adult Maximum rate €130.10

joker77

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

If one is not entitled to social support while co-habitting, is the other entitled to additional tax credits for having a dependant partner?

Short answer is no - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055995404

I've rang the revenue, they only recognise Married couples

Edgedinblue

Balagan wrote: »

Jobseeker Allowance rates from January 2010
Jobseeker's Allowance maximum rate for people aged 25 or over
Increase for a Qualified Adult Maximum rate €130.10

Didnt think it'd be that much put on top of the 196euro!

Moonbeam

Apparently the tax system is going to be reformed for the civil partnership bill.
As others said the government have it both ways and it is not fair to those cohabiting and esp those cohabiting with kids.

tanningtech

Finished maternity leave but not entitled to anything because my boyfriend earns too much !!!!!

I am just finished maternity leave and have stamps for 2010 and 2011 but they will no longer take into account 2011 from yesterday , and im not entitled to even a penny ,i have 2 small children and 4000 in debts and my partner is expected to take all of this on ? i am a person in my own right its so unfair , yet if i moved out they would give me lone parents for 2 kids and rent allowance ? its no monder this country is in the mess its in , if they gave people like me money to live on then they would nt have people committing fraud claims and they d save a bloody fortune , iv worked from i was 16 and only didnt work in the times when i had my children , what if me and my partner have a row ? i have no money to go anywhere even the shop ..... im so furious and i never thought id say this but im not surprised people lie to social welfare now becuse its a disgrace the way they treat people !!!!!!

joker77

Feel your pain. We had a baby in June, didn't even get the maternity benefit because she was out of work over a year before that. We got zilch the last year before the baby, and we now get the children's allowance - that's it.

The Revenue only recognise married couples, so I can't avail of her tax credits.

The system is inequitable, but with the state the country is in it's not going to be changed because it'll cost money.

I do really sympathise with you both, but that said you're definitely placing too much responsibility with the government on the costs assosiated with bringing up *your* children.

tanningtech

I know i was exact same on my first baby i got no maternity benefit because i went to college in the year relevant its a joke. I had to refuse a job a few weeks ago because it wouldn't even cover child care costs so what's the point? I hate this country if you have kids your trapped with no way out. If i work i have no money after child care and if i Dont i get nothin. I Dont expect the government to pay for my kids but there so screwed up that they tell me to move out and get my own place and pay 900 rent plus loan parents for two kids and right now there leaving me with no other option. If i had of applied two days ago the government would have taken my stamps from 2011 into account but i was a day late. They hand it out to people taking the piss every day but honest people got nothin

tanningtech

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I do really sympathise with you both, but that said you're definitely placing too much responsibility with the government on the costs assosiated with bringing up *your* children.

And as for making the government pay for my kids im not i have paid tax since age 16 and my partner pay s 2000 every poxy month. I was in the social yesterday and they won't give money for me for my kids but every bloody scum bag junky in the place gets everything and for what a bag of heroin? Its a joke

odds_on

tanningtech, IMHO, you should have started a new thread rather than tagging on to one that is over a year old.

Perhaps the mods could split the thread?

tanningtech

odds_on wrote: »

tanningtech, IMHO, you should have started a new thread rather than tagging on to one that is over a year old.

Perhaps the mods could split the thread?

IMHO? What difference does it make