Stock!

McGilla

There was a thread like this that got locked - due to silly posting, but I have noticed a lot of retailers seem to be struggling to keep stock!

Is this due to;

1 - Retailers not in a financial position to be overstocked and cant really afford to have expensive stock sitting in shops?

2 - Retailers struggling to import new products, (customs shipping etc) for which there is a huge demand?

or

3 - Global demand for airsoft equipment just out doing supply?

It seems to me judging by the photos of people gear thread that most people here have more gear than retailers!!!

I know this is a common problem with new sports as it happened to mountain-biking in the 90's where Irish people really struggled to get good gear.

Your relevant thoughts?

Stonewolf

I think it's probably because of the China situation.

swiftblade

If you look generally its a lot of the clones that are out of stock. The more higher end brands seem to be stocked.

I would put it down mostly to the situation in China

Witcher

Stonewolf wrote: »

I think it's probably because of the China situation.

That's basically it and what little stock does get through is in great demand so the price goes up but people still want the items for the price they were previously. People want retailers all over the country but aren't prepared to pay a bit extra when the retailers wholsale price increases. The mind boggles.

McGilla

swiftblade wrote: »

If you look generally its a lot of the clones that are out of stock. The more higher end brands seem to be stocked.

I would put it down mostly to the situation in China

i noticed the high end stock is not sold too, but that is just due to the fact that cheaper stuff sells higher volumes!

But it's the low - medium end products that we use most in Ireland, there is actually a better selection of Aegs on boards than in most retailers.

And excuse my ignorance but isn't the china situation about their government sensoring the internet???:(

swiftblade

McGilla wrote: »

i noticed the high end stock is not sold too, but that is just due to the fact that cheaper stuff sells higher volumes!

But it's the low - medium end products that we use most in Ireland, there is actually a better selection of Aegs on boards than in most retailers.

And excuse my ignorance but isn't the china situation about their government sensoring the internet???:(

The China situation is that alot of the factories have been closed down due to operating illegaly. But they will be back

McGilla

Blay wrote: »

That's basically it and what little stock does get through is in great demand so the price goes up but people still want the items for the price they were previously. People want retailers all over the country but aren't prepared to pay a bit extra when the retailers wholsale price increases. The mind boggles.

Good answer, and thanks for making my point too:

Your signature makes my point exactly!

Witcher

McGilla wrote: »

And excuse my ignorance but isn't the china situation about their government sensoring the internet???:(

The manufacturers there are being clamped down on due to the Shanghai Expo, it ends in October so if they get up and running soon after we might see more Chinese guns by the New Year as Shiva has said elsewhere.

Puding

a few things

a lot of stock is still available its just that tbh its not financially viable to stock it all the market in Ireland is not large enough, take aegs for example its hard to buy in and stock 10s of high end aeg when there not really impulse items and sit on that stock, they used to be able to do this with clone products but they have dried up due to the crack downs in china ( a lot of people are pinning hopes on everything resetting to zero buy the end of the year, but tbh things have changed the market has changed, cost even for clone products have gone up along with costs of raw materials, look to taiwan with company's like src and ics supplying your bread and butter starter aegs, a lot of the factory's have gone onto other things to make money as they can not just site there untill they can ship aegs again, if there making money in another area why switch back )

yes the supply of china soft aeg that have sustained the irish market almost from its birth has dried up meaning a lot of retailers have had to try and find new sources which is not as easy as it sounds, getting a wholesale account at a particular retailers normally needs a large investment of cash and minimum orders to maintain, these cheap sub 150euro aegs helped fuel the boom

but the market is slowing down in Ireland from my experience and there are too many retailers and sites meaning a lot of the demand is diluted

im one of those people that have more aeg that most shops but people like me are in the minority really, most people maybe have an aeg and a gbb pistol and then move on from the hobby to other things, these players that are passing thought the hobby/sport tbh sustain the retailers as your regular players that play week in week out tbh do not buy 4 or 5 aeg a year to keep the stores in trade

McGilla

swiftblade wrote: »

The China situation is that alot of the factories have been closed down due to operating illegaly. But they will be back

:rolleyes:OOoOOoooHHH - I knew that!:(

China will rise again! - I don't like rising prices and dwindling stock!!!

Shiva

McGilla wrote: »

1 - Retailers not in a financial position to be overstocked and cant really afford to have expensive stock sitting in shops?

In some cases, I'd say so. Although the amount of players has grown phenomenally, the growth of retailers has far exceeded demand for them, so the relatively small market is now shared between a lot more retailers. Theres also the fact that not as many people have as much discretionary funds to spend on airsoft gear as they did even a year ago.

McGilla wrote: »

2 - Retailers struggling to import new products, (customs shipping etc) for which there is a huge demand?

No, not really...there is some high end Taiwan stock available out there, but as above...its pointless spending a fortune stocking it if its going to sit on your stockroom floor. Most people arent buying high end guns.

McGilla wrote: »

3 - Global demand for airsoft equipment just out doing supply?

Thats a big part of it, I'd imagine. Ireland is a backwater when it comes to airsoft, and the manufacturers are running full tilt to keep up with demand from the US and Asia, so we're always going to be a lower priority unless we order huge amounts of stock.

The lack of Chinese gear has distributors and retailers in the US and Asia turning to Taiwan, and the manufacturers simply cant keep up with demand from what I can see. Cybergun in France would be a notable exception - they have the cash resources to order huge quantities, so they arent suffering.

Sales across the sector in Ireland are way down for the reasons I mentioned above (too much competition, not enough disposable income, not enough players), so unless you're getting a high turnover of cash, its hard to keep restocking and paying bills.

Also....and I realise I may get lynched for this....Irish airsofters had it very, very good for the first few years, and its now wake-up time

Prices were very low compared to the UK, and as a result, people got used to being able to buy a good-ish quality metal gun for about €150, and get a battery and charger included. Now that China has shut up shop, Taiwan budget guns are your only option near that price range, they are invariably plastic, and even if they come without a battery and charger, you're looking at €200 minimum. Add the accessories and it can be as much as €250. As a retailer, once you break that magic €199 barrier, people tend to balk at the purchase.

You will see some retailers cutting margins as much as possible to combat this situation, but theres only so much you can do - running a business in this country is extremely expensive - its next to impossible in a saturated market. But I think the days of entry level guns for less than €180 are long gone - I see some retailers charging €220 for the last few DBoys or Cyma guns available (myself included) that used to retail for €150 to €170, and its not because they're profiteering - its because the wholesalers are charging extra.

And to cap it all....the recent high cost of the dollar has completely screwed things up too - you could be looking at adding up to an extra €40 or €50 to a gun in order to keep it viable, because remember....VAT is charged on the total cost of the gun - price plus shipping. My experience is that I sometimes wont even quote for a special order because the prospective customer thinks they're being ripped off when you get back to them with a quote that includes shipping, VAT and admin charges, and its just not worth the hassle of opening yourself up tot he abuse.

I'm sure people remember the times I've had to argue with people here on Boards about the Partner Products prices

Shiva

Puding wrote: »

.... they used to be able to do this with clone products but they have dried up due to the crack downs in china ( a lot of people are pinning hopes on everything resetting to zero buy the end of the year, but tbh things have changed the market has changed, cost even for clone products have gone up along with costs of raw materials

Very good point Chris, and one I forgot to make ... the cost of raw materials has skyrocketed.

I would also have said as recently as six months ago that things will return to normal in 2011....now, I don't think so. A lot of trust has been lost - even if China suddenly started producing guns again, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, and a lot of other retailers feel the same way. You cant run a business when your source of supply is so unreliable, and I know I'm not the only poor bugger to get stung by paying for Chinese guns that haven't arrived. And the response from the Chinese wholesalers is a cheery "Sorry about that, screw you, we're gonna go sell plastic helicopters now. Seeya"

As far as I'm concerned, in future I'll buy Chinese guns from European suppliers where I have some comeback if my goods dont get delivered - if i cant get them in Europe, I wont bother. China can go eat one

TNTQ

McGilla wrote: »

Is this due to;

1 - Retailers not in a financial position to be overstocked and cant really afford to have expensive stock sitting in shops?

I cant speak for all the retailers but to have even half of the stuff lads think they need you'd have to go into AIB with your M4 - although i dont think they'd have the money either

McGilla wrote: »

2 - Retailers struggling to import new products, (customs shipping etc) for which there is a huge demand?


3 - Global demand for airsoft equipment just out doing supply?

These 2 kind of go hand in hand.

We didn't deal to much with the clone stuff but we do deal mostly with Taiwan and they are flat to the boards (pardon the pun) manufacturing for the US market and the big boys like Cybergun. For example, KJ works told us to call back in August/September when we asked to place an order in May. VFC had a 2 month lead time on our last order.

J.D.R

Just like to say, this is a great example of how a thread can go when you don't mention your genitals in your opening post

touge_drift

i think its a very interesting read to hear the retailers point of view.. as i was getting annoyed some days when everything was nearly out of stock!

what brands are you refering to when you mention high end stuff though? like g&g vfc etc?
also are accessories the same situation as aegs in there short supply?

Shiva

touge_drift wrote: »

as i was getting annoyed some days when everything was nearly out of stock!

Imagine how I feel !!!

what brands are you refering to when you mention high end stuff though? like g&g vfc etc?
also are accessories the same situation as aegs in there short supply?

Yeah, high end would be G&G, VFC, KJW, King Arms, Classic....err, no...forget that last one

I'm not sure about the accessories thing. I'm finding it hard to source Chinese accessories from suppliers I trust. We could pick up loads of little bits and bobs in small quantities, but unless you buy in bulk, the return on them is very small, and the money you spend can be better spent on guns, which will usually move quicker.

sliabh

Could I make a request of retailers to update their websites so they don't display out of stock items? Or at the very least allow us to filter what is displayed by what is in stock? Ta!

I have been wondering myself whether the lack of cheap clones is a good or bad thing for Airsoft in Ireland. It raises the barrier to entry which will discourage players, but does it also mean those that do come to the sport will be more committed?

Inari

Just to toss this out there:

Most people won't be put off of joining the sport with the high cost of an AEG. What they will be put off is impulse buying. They will become far more calculating with their money, and unfortunately that means that they won't buy nearly as much.

In my opinion, the crackdown on Chinese guns WAS an annoyance, but now I think it is a blessing. When the cloners were running at full steam, all that was coming out was rehashes and cheaper versions of the same guns. Now that Airsoft Retailers worldwide have to use a shortlist of the same manufacturers, innovation seems (to me) to be at an all time high. All you have to do is look at WE.

People just need to think about what they want, do the research, and talk to the retailers. Seriously. They are usually (in my experience they are always) willing to talk shop, and help out a fellow airsofter. Quick example; full metal Walther PPK - I wanted it, and was talking to Tony in Eirsoft about it. It was the price that attracted me, but the more expensive (and plastic) Maruzen is far superior. You feel where the money goes, and it's definitely worth it's price. I wouldn't have known this if it wasn't for T, and I think people need to use the retailers more...especially if you want Airsoft in Ireland to grow.

McGilla

I definitely agree retailer websites in the Irish market need to be updated to let us know what is in / out of stock but again this costs time / money and I really feel for retailers.

Due to the lack of cheap clones, I actually have noticed a drop in my own impulse buying (thats a good thing) and I am planning my next purchase very carefully with my local retailer!

senordingdong

Yeah, **** China tbh.

SG AIRSOFT

well,the factory in China reopenned few months ago(but not all of them),they still try to catch up those US orders from last year.

AirsoftEire.com

Thankfully we never relied directly upon Chinese made guns and as such we don't have too many problems with stocking AEGs, but there are now problems with retailers worldwide taking anything they can get and as such that effects everyone.

As Shiva was saying, Ireland is a drop in the ocean on the global airsoft scene and many distributers will turn around and tell you they have nothing left, when in fact they are fulfilling much bigger retailer orders and leaving the smaller fish with nothing.

Having said that, it is an absolute pleasures dealing with UK and other EU countries. Turn around time is lightening fast, communication is instant and carriage costs are minimal. The problem is a higher price, but that goes without saying.

I would hate for people to think that because there is a shortage of products that we can charge anything we like, this is simply not the case, with us anyway. Our prices are only affected by, and changed by, two things, 1. the dollar 2. undercutting competition.
Some people have a mad notion that retailers are rolling in cash, not the case. I can't think of any other market where the customer has so much choice in terms of where to buy from, yet is worth so little comparatively. We're probably loosing more than 90% of business to Hong Kong and the US, certainly in terms of accessories and tactical gear and we're forced to have pricing thats as close as possible to these guys (yet still not close enough for a lot of people). In what other market does a small shop in Dundalk make up their pricing based upon a retailers price in Kowloon in Hong Kong!

Also as Shiva has said, the cost of trading in this country is astronomical, we're paying 10s of thousands a year in costs before we open the door, think how demanding this is. Whatever figure you have in your head for rent, rates, insurance, esb, phone etc, quadruple it and youre probably close!

In regards stock, a lot of manufacturers stock has dried up to miniscule levels, KSC stuff seems to have dissappeared off the face of the earth and any new Marui product is gone in a matter of days. All the chinese manufacturers are completely impossible to get, and KJ Works items are backed up 3 months. Also in regards the Marui products, the markup is virtually non existant so thats why you dont see many Irish retailers selling it.

Something to also note is that certain HK retailers have exclusive rights to distribution of certain items, the Tornado Grenade as one small example. If you don't see it on Redwolfs site, it wont be available anywhere else unless another retailer has bought up a lot of their supply. So in some cases European retailers are bound by how well something is selling by a HK retailer.

Thankfully lots of accessories, clothing, batteries, chargers etc etc are constantly available, depending on where you get it but if its coming from Europe it isnt a problem.

Steve