NCA survey says prices down 14%, what the hell are they smoking?

Our man in Havana

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0810/food.html

I would love to know where they are shopping. My shopping bill has certainly not fallen by 14%. Of course this will be used as an excuse by the government to reduce payments in the budget.

ABajaninCork

You can say that again Haddockman!

I was listening to RTE1 in the car and nearly crashed it when I heard I was laughing so hard:eek:! My purse certainly ain't saying my shopping's gone down. In fact, I'd hazard a guess it's gone UP at least 20%....

I would love to know WHO paid for this load of boll lax. Clearly it's vested interests here...

I would love to know exactly what was in the 'basket' of 103 goods that this survey was supposed to be done against...

I would love to know WHY Aldi and Lidl weren't included in the survey. They're supermarkets too - right?

They should have a word with me - I'd soon put them straight!:D

ejmaztec

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You can say that again Haddockman!

I was listening to RTE1 in the car and nearly crashed it when I heard I was laughing so hard:eek:! My purse certainly ain't saying my shopping's gone down. In fact, I'd hazard a guess it's gone UP at least 20%....

I would love to know WHO paid for this load of boll lax. Clearly it's vested interests here...

I would love to know exactly what was in the 'basket' of 103 goods that this survey was supposed to be done against...

I would love to know WHY Aldi and Lidl weren't included in the survey. They're supermarkets too - right?

They should have a word with me - I'd soon put them straight!:D

I'm assuming that's because, apart from the odd items, their goods are foreign brands, and not the usual shopping brands that you find in the stores surveyed.

Our man in Havana

Without revealing the full list of items this survey is meaningless.

JohnC.

I'd love to know what Superquinn they shopped in that is virtually the same price as Dunnes or Tesco. That's not my experience any time I go in there.

ABajaninCork

ejmaztec wrote: »

I'm assuming that's because, apart from the odd items, their goods are foreign brands, and not the usual shopping brands that you find in the stores surveyed.

Well certainly with Lidl, there ARE well known brands frequently in store. That is why I asked the question. Not too sure with Aldi, as I don't shop there.

And Haddockman is right. Unless we know which items were used for the survey, then it means bugger all...:rolleyes:

wmpdd3

Results by shop and product are here:

http://www.nca.ie/eng/Research_Zone/price-surveys/NCA-Branded-Results-Aug2010.xls

guess what? it won't open

more info here:

http://www.nca.ie/eng/Research_Zone/price-surveys/NCA-Branded-Grocery-Survey-Aug-2010.pdf

dudara

Moved to Rip Off Ireland

dudara

davo10

Again the NCA has shot itself in the foot with shoddy research. You are absolutely right, to compare the market it is incomprehensible that Aldi and Lidl were not included, do they not offer choice and cheaper prices?, do we need this report to tell us the same brand goods, in the same market place, operating in the same conditions, paying the same wages with the same costs are similar. You cannot pick the biggest and most expensive vendors in any sector while ignoring the least expensive and present it as proof of lack of competition. The NCA is at best lazy and at worst intentionally misleading the public to garner publicity.

ABajaninCork

davo10 wrote: »

Again the NCA has shot itself in the foot with shoddy research. You are absolutely right, to compare the market it is incomprehensible that Aldi and Lidl were not included, do they not offer choice and cheaper prices?, do we need this report to tell us the same brand goods, in the same market place, operating in the same conditions, paying the same wages with the same costs are similar. You cannot pick the biggest and most expensive vendors in any sector while ignoring the least expensive and present it as proof of lack of competition. The NCA is at best lazy and at worst intentionally misleading the public to garner publicity.

I'm glad to see someone agrees. VERY lazy research promoting vested interests -Major supermarket chains, Government come to mind here.

They can't **** on my head and tell me it's raining!:D

Alun

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Results by shop and product are here:

http://www.nca.ie/eng/Research_Zone/price-surveys/NCA-Branded-Results-Aug2010.xls

guess what? it won't open

http://www.nca.ie/eng/Research_Zone/price-surveys/NCA_Branded_Grocery_Survey_report_data_August_2010_.xls

gurramok

Hmm, whats missing from that list

I have noticed Lynx Anti--Perspirant has skyrocketed since the start of the year. Used to be able to get one around 3 quid in any of the stores or 2 for a fiver special offer, now they are 4 quid a bottle. Thats some rise!

Alot of the fish (Donegal catch frozen type) has also risen in price.

Our man in Havana

Butter has risen by 20 cent a pound in the last few weeks.

g32

We definitely need Wal-Mart. This survey also shows Tesco/Dunnes matching prices (artificial competition).

Go up north to shop. Asda could pinch these in the bud and it worked last year.

The less money these supermarkets get, the less greedy they get.

91011

I love the way everyone wants to shoot down anything that is positive without even reading the damn thing.

#1 - This is VERY clearly stated as a branded goods survey. Lidl / Aldi don't stock many branded goods and as such are not included ion thsi survey. (they are in most other surveys)

#2 The 14% reduction is from the last survey in January 2009. 18 months ago. Back in January 2009 grocery prices were ridiculously high in Ireland. Everything from Whiskas Cat food (then about 6.50, now under €5,) to olive oils (then over €7, now under €5,) to deoderants (€3.99 now under €2.50) were way over priced.

#3 The survey laike EVERY other survery for anything like this is about AVERAGES. Yes some items may not change, some items may go uop in price but the AVERAGE price based on the same branded goods 18 months ago have dropped 14%

#4 Read the damn thing http://www.nca.ie/eng/Research_Zone/price-surveys/August_2010_Grocery_Shopping_Survey.html and then make a comment on what the survey is about e.g. The price difference on BRANDED goods in the main supermarkets.

It is NOT a price comparison survey of food in general as then it would have to include Aldi, Lidl, Spar & entra. - And it is very clear that this is not what it is.


Looking at it more closely - 100% of information & more is published. Download the excel file at the bottom of the NCA webpage and then use the bottom tabs to check all the data. - It even shows the historical prices of each and every item in the basket from December 2007.

91011

g32 wrote: »

We definitely need Wal-Mart. This survey also shows Tesco/Dunnes matching prices (artificial competition).

Go up north to shop. Asda could pinch these in the bud and it worked last year.

The less money these supermarkets get, the less greedy they get.

Here's a 100% verifable comparison.

Taking each and every item on the latest NCA survey of branded goods and compare where availble with the CHEAPEST UK price based on www.Mysupermarket.com price comparison website the results are as follows

A total of 54 items from the list could be compared on a precise comparison basis - same brand, same variant, same size.

Dunnes Stores Cornelscourt €190.05

Combined lowest UK supermarket prices €188.50 (combination of lowest prices from Asda, Tesco, Morrisons & Sainsburys)

Rate of exchange used = €1.243 / £1 (todays Ulster Bank sterling sell rate excluding commission).



So based on a fairly comprehensive range of 54 branded goods, the difference in price between UK & Ireland is less than 1%. 100% Verifable from independent pricing sources.

Terrontress

91011 wrote: »

Here's a 100% verifable comparison.

Taking each and every item on the latest NCA survey of branded goods and compare where availble with the CHEAPEST UK price based on www.Mysupermarket.com price comparison website the results are as follows

A total of 54 items from the list could be compared on a precise comparison basis - same brand, same variant, same size.

Dunnes Stores Cornelscourt €190.05

Combined lowest UK supermarket prices €188.50 (combination of lowest prices from Asda, Tesco, Morrisons & Sainsburys)

Rate of exchange used = €1.243 / £1 (todays Ulster Bank sterling sell rate excluding commission).



So based on a fairly comprehensive range of 54 branded goods, the difference in price between UK & Ireland is less than 1%. 100% Verifable from independent pricing sources.

I would expect someone with a vested interest to have rose tinted spectacles. You may not do it intentionally but you continuously seek for evidence to support your assertions and dismiss that which is contrary to it.

If what you are saying were true, Dunnes would have come out and said it by now! It would not have been left to you to be the sole defender!

91011

Terrontress wrote: »

I would expect someone with a vested interest to have rose tinted spectacles. You may not do it intentionally but you continuously seek for evidence to support your assertions and dismiss that which is contrary to it.

If what you are saying were true, Dunnes would have come out and said it by now! It would not have been left to you to be the sole defender!

I have ZERO interests in the grocery bsuiness in Ireland except as a customer (primarily of Supervalu) I do travel to North Donegal on Business and have family in Ballycastle and have previously shopped in the north. (through to about mid 2009) because there was a huge difference in prices.

These days based on my twice a month on average visits through NI and based on comments by relatives living in the North, there is feck all price difference on you average shopping.

There are a few on boards that do non stop promotion of NI shopping using fasle exchange rates, false Irish prices & basing evrything on a couple of special offers.

By taking the 54 items in this survey that can be price matched 100% to UK supermarkets (easy to do by checking Mysupermarket.com) it is more comprehensive, 100% independent & 100% verifiable.

The final result is

Dunnes Cornelscourt 190.05
Tesco Tallaght 187.18
Combined UK supermarket lowest prices €188.50


p.s. Dunnes NEVER make public comment on anything. Even if a survey said they were 90% cheaper than Tesco.

g32

91011 wrote: »

Here's a 100% verifable comparison.

Taking each and every item on the latest NCA survey of branded goods and compare where availble with the CHEAPEST UK price based on www.Mysupermarket.com price comparison website the results are as follows

A total of 54 items from the list could be compared on a precise comparison basis - same brand, same variant, same size.

Dunnes Stores Cornelscourt €190.05

Combined lowest UK supermarket prices €188.50 (combination of lowest prices from Asda, Tesco, Morrisons & Sainsburys)

Rate of exchange used = €1.243 / £1 (todays Ulster Bank sterling sell rate excluding commission).



So based on a fairly comprehensive range of 54 branded goods, the difference in price between UK & Ireland is less than 1%. 100% Verifable from independent pricing sources.

91011,

You ignored the savings made in Asda Enniskillen VS the Republic of Ireland. That would explain why you just provided a price comparison between UK supermarkets only.

Perhaps this is an indirect campaign by you or other retailers on this forum to pretend Ireland is now cheaper given that research proves we are the most expensive in the Eurozone for Groceries.

I also think you are missing my point that shopping in Asda is a bargaining tool that forces retailers down south to compete. Currently, there is artificial competition among main supermarkets by price matching. When Tesco increase their prices, Dunnes and Supervalu follow like sheep.

That is why we need to shop in the north more. Asda Enniskillen offer a competitive GBP/EUR exchange rate also.

These Supermarkets were brought to their knees last year. They were forced into price cuts.

ABajaninCork

91011 wrote: »

I love the way everyone wants to shoot down anything that is positive without even reading the damn thing.

Oh, but I HAVE read it. Which is why I felt able to comment. Comparing BRANDED goods prices is all fine and dandy, but who on earth shops only for branded goods these days? Nobody I know of, that's for certain. My own basket comprises of a mix of branded as well as store's own, and I look for the specials on offer. I have no loyalty to any particular store, but shop where I think has the best on offer for the week. However, I will only buy my veg from Lidl as the quality and price is far better than anything Tesco and Dunne's have to offer. THAT is the reason why I think this reseach is shoddy and lazy.

Coming from the UK, I have been amazed to see just HOW expensive Irish supermarkets were and still are compared to London. I can remember shopping in Tesco not long after I moved. Thought I had maybe about £30's worth in my trolley, and nearly fainted when the bill in fact came to E80!! The choice of goods on offer has improved, but still isn't great IMO.

Yes the prices came down for a while. But they seem to be climbing steeply again these days, especially in Tesco. And I'm not alone in thinking that.

g32

Terrontress wrote: »

I would expect someone with a vested interest to have rose tinted spectacles. You may not do it intentionally but you continuously seek for evidence to support your assertions and dismiss that which is contrary to it.

If what you are saying were true, Dunnes would have come out and said it by now! It would not have been left to you to be the sole defender!

Copy paste Insignificant spammer dwarf!...still here!...
for your information we (me & you) have finished recount (to that argument) your one page history long worthless rant...

91011

g32 wrote: »

91011,

You ignored the savings made in Asda Enniskillen VS the Republic of Ireland. That would explain why you just provided a price comparison between UK supermarkets only.
.

lol:D Asda in Enniskillen is the exact same as Asda in Birmingham, swansea, belfast or wherever. They have a marketwide pricing policy, so the price in Asda Swansea is the same as Asda Enniskillen

Northern Ireland is still part of the united kingdom (even if some don't agree with it)

Comparison prices were on a 100% like for like basis. Same size, same variant, same brand. 54 of the 103 items surveyed are available in the UK in the same size, same brand, same variant.

UK prices used were the CHEAPEST price displayed over 5 main supermarket groups by Mysupermarket.com - They claim to update prices daily, so it can be regarded as 100% correct.

EXACT comparisons, 100% verifiable on both the internet and in stores in real time cannot be disputed.

Showing a receipt like you did that has 6 bottles of special offer coke & 5 special offer pizzas is NOT regarded as realistic shopping comparison.


Even Conor Pope in the irish Times - a long time critic of Irish supermarket prices has confirmed in his own survey that savings are no longer to be made by shopping in NI.

and as I've said time and time again - I have zero interest in the grocery sector and the sector that I am in, my prices match the prices of the same goods in the USA where they are made.

rubadub

91011 wrote: »

Taking each and every item on the latest NCA survey of branded goods and compare where availble with the CHEAPEST UK price based on www.Mysupermarket.com price comparison website the results are as follows

A total of 54 items from the list could be compared on a precise comparison basis - same brand, same variant, same size.

Dunnes Stores Cornelscourt €190.05

Combined lowest UK supermarket prices €188.50

Good work, did you remember to do what the NCA do? i.e. ignore all special offers, I know mysupermarket shows if an offer is on so if you found say johnsons baby lotion for £1 on offer in asda but is usually £1.80 and it was £1.50 in tesco then you should be taking the £1.50 price as being the lowest.

This was my main issue with the NCA report from the other year, they ignore special offers and I think they showed Dunnes to be cheapest, while the cheapest shopping basket was tesco -as they do tend to have more and better offers. This is the complete opposite to the way I shop, I go in looking for maybe pizza, I take what is half price, I am have no real brand loyalty. Yesterday I went to tesco to get some 7up, then saw club orange was 97c for 2L so got it. For brands I am a little loyal to I stock up when on offer, so at the moment I have a freezer full of half price donegal catch haddock which will probably last until they are on offer again.

It is biased against supermarkets who practise this "keep the price high for a month and then halve it" -this marketing technique is becoming a lot more common, esp. in tesco, I rarely see it to the same degree in lidl, where many products are already cheap so are rarely half price.

You can see this in the excel sheet

Tesco Tallaght: Johnson Baby Lotion (pink bottle) 300 ml - Special Offer price €1.30 offer ends 28 July 2010

So they listed it as €2.54 which was the previous price. Superquinn was €1.99 with no offer, this would have me thinking are tesco up to that marketing trick of raising the price for a few weeks, just enough to pass the leqal requirements needed to show a before & after price to exaggerate the apparent savings.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Comparing BRANDED goods prices is all fine and dandy, but who on earth shops only for branded goods these days? Nobody I know of, that's for certain.

+1, but the problem is then comparing own brands, e.g. a M&S chicken curry is incomparable to a tesco value chicken curry. It would cause even more arguments & confusion.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

However, I will only buy my veg from Lidl as the quality and price is far better than anything Tesco and Dunne's have to offer. THAT is the reason why I think this reseach is shoddy and lazy.

Same here, I know fish is cheaper in lidl so buy it there, X, Y, Z is cheaper in dunnes/tesco or of better quality. It would get very complex but if you read the data you can see what is really going on.

91011

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Oh, but I HAVE read it.

Then you;ll ahve seen that it is a branded goods survey. The NCA carry other survey too that show unbranded goods, a mixture of goods etc.

On a branded goods survey you can compare like with like 100%.

On unbranded you can't - example, Aldi own brand chocolate is FAR superior than Tesco own brand chocolate. Same with Aldi Jams & Yogurts. So it would be unfair to Aldi to say that on unbranded goods they are the same as Tesco whereas imo they are far superior to tesco.

Or compare Aldis frozen ready made gammon steaks / lamb shanks - utterly divine and probably even better than Tesco's Finest range which are about 30% more expensive!

What this survey says (& my extra comparison) is that on branded goods, there is now price similarity with all the main supermarkets both in UK & Ireland.

91011

rubadub wrote: »

Good work, did you remember to do what the NCA do? i.e. ignore all special offers.

Yep - cheapest standard price was taken on all products with any special offers ignored. (only 2 of the items had a special offer stated)

Terrontress

91011 wrote: »

I have ZERO interests in the grocery bsuiness in Ireland except as a customer (primarily of Supervalu) I do travel to North Donegal on Business and have family in Ballycastle and have previously shopped in the north. (through to about mid 2009) because there was a huge difference in prices.

These days based on my twice a month on average visits through NI and based on comments by relatives living in the North, there is feck all price difference on you average shopping.

There are a few on boards that do non stop promotion of NI shopping using fasle exchange rates, false Irish prices & basing evrything on a couple of special offers.

By taking the 54 items in this survey that can be price matched 100% to UK supermarkets (easy to do by checking Mysupermarket.com) it is more comprehensive, 100% independent & 100% verifiable.

The final result is

Dunnes Cornelscourt 190.05
Tesco Tallaght 187.18
Combined UK supermarket lowest prices €188.50


p.s. Dunnes NEVER make public comment on anything. Even if a survey said they were 90% cheaper than Tesco.

I always see signs in supermarkets and they'll give their price and that of their competitors and say "No difference!"

given that you claim there is no difference between shopping in the North and down here then why has something similar been done by the retailers?

There is a widespread belief that NI is cheaper. Why are you the only person saying otherwise? Why would Dunnes, Superquinn or Tesco IRL not attempt to highlight this inaccuracy? Possibly because it is not an inaccuracy and to advertise otherwise would be illegal and actionable.

I apologise if I have incorrectly labelled you as having an interest.

rubadub

91011 wrote: »

Yep - cheapest standard price was taken on all products with any special offers ignored. (only 2 of the items had a special offer stated)

so if offers were included the Irish one might actually be lower, esp. since you tallied up a combination of cheap products in the UK, if you went with the single cheapest UK basket price including offers it might a fair bit higher.

Terrontress wrote: »

I always see signs in supermarkets and they'll give their price and that of their competitors and say "No difference!"

This is usually in the likes of supervalu, saying they are the same price as dunnes/tesco/lidl, this is because supervalu are halfway between being a regular supermarket and a convenience store.

ejmaztec

91011 wrote: »

I have ZERO interests in the grocery bsuiness in Ireland except as a customer (primarily of Supervalu)

That's where you lose all credibility, with me at least, because I hate the sight of anything Musgrave.

Our local SuperValu maintained that it was cheaper than Lidl, and arranged a display of its plain-packaged value crap to prove it. The display and the price comparison have now gone.

Obviously, I don't know what you buy in SuperValu, or why, but I've seen nothing in SuperValu that would persuade me to steer clear of Dunnes, Tesco, Lidl or Aldi.

91011

Terrontress wrote: »

I always see signs in supermarkets and they'll give their price and that of their competitors and say "No difference!"

given that you claim there is no difference between shopping in the North and down here then why has something similar been done by the retailers?

There is a widespread belief that NI is cheaper. Why are you the only person saying otherwise? Why would Dunnes, Superquinn or Tesco IRL not attempt to highlight this inaccuracy? Possibly because it is not an inaccuracy and to advertise otherwise would be illegal and actionable.

I apologise if I have incorrectly labelled you as having an interest.

I found just 2 prices to be identical between UK / Irl. Heinz Bean & something else. Every other price was different up & down. Even the 2 different baby formulas - one brand was cheaper in Ireland, the other was cheaper in UK. Uncle ben's rice was substantially more expensive in UK as were cadbury fingers (£1.25 v €1), but these higher prices were matched by lower prices on other items sucg as mc vities rich tea, and dolmio sauces.

Tesco did run a huge campaign claiming prices had come down to NI prices last year.

ejmaztec wrote: »

That's where you lose all credibility, with me at least, because I hate the sight of anything Musgrave.

Our local SuperValu maintained that it was cheaper than Lidl, and arranged a display of its plain-packaged value crap to prove it. The display and the price comparison have now gone.

Obviously, I don't know what you buy in SuperValu, or why, but I've seen nothing in SuperValu that would persuade me to steer clear of Dunnes, Tesco, Lidl or Aldi.

I shop in supervalu on a regular basis as I pass by their stores daily and to get to a tesco / dunnes would mean a 30 minute detour + traffic. And for small amount of shopping (only 2 of us) its not worth the hassle. - 50% of veg come from garden & meat comes from hylands butchers.

ejmaztec

91011 wrote: »

I shop in supervalu on a regular basis as I pass by their stores daily and to get to a tesco / dunnes would mean a 30 minute detour + traffic. And for small amount of shopping (only 2 of us) its not worth the hassle. - 50% of veg come from garden & meat comes from hylands butchers.

Ah well, there are four of us, and it's more cost-effective to drive 10 miles to the nearest Tesco than a mile and a half to the Nearest SuperValu.

dudara

g32 wrote: »

Copy paste Insignificant spammer dwarf!...still here!...
for your information we (me & you) have finished recount (to that argument) your one page history long worthless rant...

g32 When you post, you might want to consider being coherent.

dudara