Complicated situation regarding 5yr old sister

LegacyUser

Hi. I'm just looking for a bit of advice or your thoughts really.

This is about my sister. My dad left home 2 years ago to be with my mam's best friend. His contact with us was quite on and off at the start but now he takes my sister regularly. The problem at the moment is he has accused me and my mam of not looking after her properly because she wets the bed when she comes home here, but she doesn't wet the bed in his house.

She is 5 years old and was diagnosed with MultiCystic Displastic Right Kidney Disorder from birth which essentially means she only has 1 kidney. This has affected her toilet going in the past. But now my dad says that it can't be down to this because she rarely wets the bed in his house.

I'm wondering if anyone knows why this might be? Like might it be something to do with the strained relationship with my dad that makes her wet the bed when she is not with him? I know that when she wets in his house, he punishes her the next day by treating his girlfriends 2 kids to goodies etc and basically not treating her and showing her how bold it is.. but me and my mam think that this isn't really very nice..

Is he right? Are we in the wrong here, should we be punishing her when she wets? I don't think wetting the bed at 5 years old is a major issue, but I know he will say we are unfit when it comes to custody.

Sorry for the long post and I really would appreciate any thoughts you have as parents x

littlebug

Stressedoutaboutfamilylife wrote: »

he punishes her the next day by treating his girlfriends 2 kids to goodies etc and basically not treating her and showing her how bold it is.. but me and my mam think that this isn't really very nice..

Disgraceful :mad:

I don't think wetting the bed at 5 years old is a major issue.

It's not an issue at all. it's very common.

I would say that the he reason your sister is not wetting the bed at his house is because she is not as relaxed (ie stressed about wetting the bed) and therefore not sleeping as deeply as she does at home.

I'm getting cross just thinking of the pressure he is putting on the child. Not only punishing her for something she has no control over but using it as a custody threat. Poor girl:( IMO this wouldn't go in his favour at all.

Mothman

From my experience now with 8yo and 5yo, any bed wetting is something subconcious and like Littlebug I'm apalled reading about some of the actions being taken.

With my 2, bed wetting occurs before a cold appears. It has us scratching our head for a couple days and then lo and behold they are sniffling or have a cough. This is just an example of my experience and while I can't be definite in what the 'cause' is in your situation, I think it may be fear/insecurity induced.

cynder

I wet the bed till i was 11, not every night.

I remember staying at my nans and i never wet the bed there once (because she would wake me up at 12 o clock and made me go to the toilet) and no drinks after 7pm.

also to add my daughter started wetting the bed at 7 (just after my son was born) and it turned out that she was diabetic and was not stress related (regarding the birth of my son (which can happen))

not much advice i can give you bed wetting happens, make sure she has those night time pants (a little more grown up than nappies) talk to her doctor (in case a bit of it is stress related, seeing a psychologist may help if that is the case)

best of luck

littlebug

I wouldn't put nappies or night time pants on a 5 year old. Nor would I see a psychologist. It is very common and these things are likely to make her feel even more degraded and stressed about it all and, in my opinion, would feel more like a punishment. Lifting during the night may mean you have a dry bed in the morning (though it usually didn't in our case) but some say it also trains them to need to wee in the night... something you want to stop. In a lot of cases it's a case of either the child simply sleeping very deeply and her body not reacting to the signals or the hormone that suppresses urine production at night just hasn't fully developed yet (or a combination of both of the above). The only thing you can do is wait for time to fix it and give extra hugs and praise on dry mornings. The OPs sisters case may be a bit different given that there is a kidney issue but that is for her dr to decide.

My daughter has just stopped wetting the bed at 8.

smelltheglove

That is awful behaviour from the dad and I feel for your sister. After having a bed wetting issue with my 3 yr old I read a dew articles about it, a lot of bed wetters do not wet the bed away from home as they do not sleep as easy, concious about their bed wetting issues.

My little one is almost 4, she was fine for a year roughly and then started wetting almost every night. We spent 3-4 weeks waking her up out of her bed at around midnight and getting her to do a wee, I put a potty by her bed to make it easier. This last week we havent had any accidents and havent woken her at all, I can sometimed hear her get up herself to do her wee. If she continues to have issues a trip to the gp may be on the cards just to ensure there isnt any more trouble with her medically. It most likely will be a subconcious thing though.

You can read through this with her and talk to her about it if you think it will help, this site is designed for kids to understand it http://kidshealth.org/kid/health_pro.../enuresis.html

cynder

littlebug wrote: »

I wouldn't put nappies or night time pants on a 5 year old. Nor would I see a psychologist. It is very common and these things are likely to make her feel even more degraded and stressed about it all and, in my opinion, would feel more like a punishment. Lifting during the night may mean you have a dry bed in the morning (though it usually didn't in our case) but some say it also trains them to need to wee in the night... something you want to stop. In a lot of cases it's a case of either the child simply sleeping very deeply and her body not reacting to the signals or the hormone that suppresses urine production at night just hasn't fully developed yet (or a combination of both of the above). The only thing you can do is wait for time to fix it and give extra hugs and praise on dry mornings. The OPs sisters case may be a bit different given that there is a kidney issue but that is for her dr to decide.

My daughter has just stopped wetting the bed at 8.

Thats the idea let them lie in a bed of pee for the night and have to have a shower each morning because they stink! (if they dont have enough time to shower before school it wont be long before she gets bullied for smelling)
I think that is even more degrading.

When my daughter started wetting the bed at 7 (been dry since she was 20months old) the diabetic nurses told us to buy the night time pants as when her blood sugars go high she will wet the bed, thankfully she hasnt had that happened for 3 years and was only in the early days of the diabetes.

Doctors can help with bed wetting, Bed wetting can be psychological especially when the family is torn (divorce/separation) or if a parent/sibling dies or if another baby is born into the family that's why its best to consult a doctor. If the bed wetting is caused by the kidney complaint then the doctor should know about it and will offer advice.

Chuchoter

Thats a horrible thing to do to a 5 year old, with a kidney condition no less! He only has her once a week, it could easily be a coincidence. What he's doing could do her untold damage to her psychologically. Kids wet the bed, its no-ones fault.

littleoulme

Jesus, what a horrible man for doing that to a little five year girl. Its definately not her fault, Would it dawn on him that perhaps she is wetting the bed because she is a bit stressed out that he left her?

Mine did it the odd time - I always made sure I made them go loo before bedtimes and when I went to bed, I would lift them out of theirs beds to go the loo (they would go straight back asleep) I also cut out the drinks at night close to be bed time.

I hope you resolve it.

sarahlulu

Aah the poor child. My daughter is five, and has no kidney problems, yet if she falls asleep at night before afinal trip to the bathroom she still sometimes wets.

We clean everything quickly and she goes off back to sleep, usually remembering nothing about it the next morning. The less fuss that is made, the less self conscious she is about it.

I hope he realises the damage that punishing her like this could do to her self esteem, and stops it immediately. And he has the cheek to say that your Mam is unfit!!

KittyeeTrix

I have 4 children myself and one of my boys who is now 13 wet the bed from baby up until now.......
He only wets now maybe once a month but he has never been told off for something he has no concious control over. His older brother and younger brother and sister have been warned all their lives that woe betide anyone of them I ever hear giving him a hard time for it..............

Personally, I would not send any child to a house where they would be held accountable and punished for nocturnal wetting over which they can't exert concious control:(

I would fight tooth and nail to make sure they would never be humiliated like that ever again

sarahlulu

We have a rule in our house. No matter what happens, nobody gets cross if it's an accident. Pretty good rule to stick to as I remember getting in trouble as a kid for things that got broken by accident and recall how unfair I always felt it was as it wasn't something I could help.

Sounds like the OP's Dad should implement the same rule.

LegacyUser

Thank you all for your replies.

I had thought as much myself that it is quite normal and that the punishment is wrong but I thought it wise to get a few opinions.

She slept in my mams bed last night and this morning we discovered she had wet again. My mam just cleaned off the bed and let the mattress air and bathed her.

I had promised her I would take her bowling and to mcdonalds today and my dad went through the roof saying she shouldn't be taken out she doesn't deserve it, but I didn't want to go back on a promise. I know she feels very ashamed about wetting the bed and I think he makes her feel a lot worse!

I really appriciate all the help thank you x

deisemum

Bed wetting is very common in children so much so that the enuresis clinics will not see children until they are at least 7 or 8 years old.

Also just look at the Dry Nites in the supermarkets and you'll see they go upto age 10 -15 and supermarkets would not stock them unless there's a market for them.

I think it's disgraceful behaviour the way your father is treating your sister.

Nevyn

I don't think it's normal for a 5 year old to wet the bed, (I know I have been luck and I have had less then a handful of accidents with both my kids), but your sister does have a medical condition and emotional distress alone can lead to this happening and it sounds like the Dad could be hindering rather then helping.

Would he come to a session with her dr, with your mother and have a 3rrd party point out the best way to deal with it when it happens?

littlebug

Thaedydal wrote: »

I don't think it's normal for a 5 year old to wet the bed

Thaedydal you have been lucky. I suppose the word used should be common rather than normal.

From the website linked by smelltheglove

About 13% of 6-year-olds wet the bed, while about 5% of 10-year-olds do. Bedwetting often runs in families: kids who wet the bed often have a relative who did, too. If both parents wet the bed when they were young, it's very likely that their child will.

In a lot of cases it is simply that they have taken longer to develop control and there are no psychological or other physical factors and it will stop by itself. As Deisemum said once there is no infection Drs and phn don't recommend intervention until a child is 7 or 8 unless there are other factors eg child who was previously dry starts wetting the bed which might point more to other causes.

That said... I think this child is being put under extreme stress by the situation which if not causing it is certainly not helping. Maybe for a start someone could print out some of the literature for the father on the best ways to deal with this so he might tone his reactions down.

theg81der

I`m shocked that any adult would do this to a 5 year old - it just shoudn`t be an issue, its absolutely bazare.

Op I would let him read this thread or insist on him going to a doc appointment with your mum so the doc can tell him off. He`s making it worse, she must be so self conscious, I`m suprised she actually wants to go to his any more.

cynder

theg81der wrote: »

I`m shocked that any adult would do this to a 5 year old - it just shoudn`t be an issue, its absolutely bazare.

Op I would let him read this thread or insist on him going to a doc appointment with your mum so the doc can tell him off. He`s making it worse, she must be so self conscious, I`m suprised she actually wants to go to his any more.

agree!

Susannahmia

grindelwald wrote: »

Thats the idea let them lie in a bed of pee for the night and have to have a shower each morning because they stink! (if they dont have enough time to shower before school it wont be long before she gets bullied for smelling)
I think that is even more degrading.

Agree. My cousin age 11 wets the bed and I know he much prefers to wear pullups at home. When at sleepovers he takes Desmopressin which works but gives him headaches.

littlebug

Susannahmia wrote: »

Agree. My cousin age 11 wets the bed and I know he much prefers to wear pullups at home. When at sleepovers he takes Desmopressin which works but gives him headaches.

I guess the important issue here is that with your nephew and my daughter they were/ are allowed to make the choice themselves. From age 5ish wearing pullups were a no no for my daughter as they made her feel like a baby particularly once her younger brother was out of them. Yes it was more work and it often involved us changing her twice in the night but with disposable bedmats and spares clothes at hand the change was quick and without fuss. When a good wash in the morning is the norm as opposed to "because you're smelly" then there was never a question of there being teasing or bullying. I assume the child would still need a wash even having worn pullups anyway. Each to their own but I think allowing the child have some control over some of the decisions is important.

Deliverance

Stressedoutaboutfamilylife wrote: »

Hi. I'm just looking for a bit of advice or your thoughts really.

This is about my sister. My dad left home 2 years ago to be with my mam's best friend. His contact with us was quite on and off at the start but now he takes my sister regularly. The problem at the moment is he has accused me and my mam of not looking after her properly because she wets the bed when she comes home here, but she doesn't wet the bed in his house.

She is 5 years old and was diagnosed with MultiCystic Displastic Right Kidney Disorder from birth which essentially means she only has 1 kidney. This has affected her toilet going in the past. But now my dad says that it can't be down to this because she rarely wets the bed in his house.

I'm wondering if anyone knows why this might be? Like might it be something to do with the strained relationship with my dad that makes her wet the bed when she is not with him? I know that when she wets in his house, he punishes her the next day by treating his girlfriends 2 kids to goodies etc and basically not treating her and showing her how bold it is.. but me and my mam think that this isn't really very nice..

Is he right? Are we in the wrong here, should we be punishing her when she wets? I don't think wetting the bed at 5 years old is a major issue, but I know he will say we are unfit when it comes to custody.

Sorry for the long post and I really would appreciate any thoughts you have as parents x

You are not in the wrong OP. If anyone treated my own 5yr old like you have described I would be v.angry. He sounds like a v.ignorent person with no realisation of how sensitive the issue is for the child.

The child must have wet when she was with him otherwise he would not be aware of the 'condition'. He chose to put pressure on the child and punish her in a humiliating way. No wonder she wets more when she comes home! He is doing more damage than good.

I wet till I was 12 and it was a very personal thing so I understand how it feels. When my own daughter wets I console her and tell her about how I wet and it makes her laugh "You wet the bed Dadda, YOU!" I laugh and say "yes ME!" and roll my eyes. It creates understanding and we work out ways of alleviating it via as mentioned by others...

The midnight pick up to the loo followed by 'well done Missy' plus no liquids an hour before bed unless really necessary i.e. dry mouth etc.

On the occasions that she may wet (which has been dramitically less and less) then a quick change of bedclothes pyjamas and a consoling hug is much more productive than putting unnecessary pressure on the child via punishments, that only makes the uncontrolable act seem like a disability, it is confidence destroying.

The bottom line I think is...If it were me I would not let the child stay overnight there in future untill the dad learns to cop on a lot. Punishment for wetting only makes things worse for the child and is v.humiliating as such.

Plus apologies for not replying sooner, I knew this thread would make me angry, I needed to calm myself a bit before replying;)

CrazyRabbit

OP, your dad is a bully. And that's the nicest thing I can say about him without getting banned from here.

littlebug

Sorting out some files yesterday I came across the information sheet I got from the schools PHN two years ago (ie child was 6) when I had ticked the "bedwetting" box on her school health check form. I've just retyped/ put in quotes. I thought it might be useful.

The following are some guidelines on the management of enuresis/ bedwetting for the child between 5 and 7 years.
 To outrule any medical condition, it is advisable to take the child to your GP and bring along a sample of the child’s urine for testing.
 Do not restrict fluids- encourage your child to drink 6-8 glasses/ cups of fluid throughout the day keeping it to a minimum for two hours before bedtime.
 At bedtime avoid caffeine drinks such as tea, coffee, drinking chocolate and cola, also fizzy drinks and blackcurrant drinks. These contain bladder irritants and/ or tend to stimulate the production of more urine.
 Ensure the child passes urine before bed.
 Ensure the child eats plenty of fruit, vegetables and cereal to avoid constipation, as this can contribute to bedwetting.
 Ensure easy access to the toilet and leave a light on if necessary.
 Discourage the use of nappies/ pull-ups, but do ensure that the mattress and bed are adequately protected.
 “lifting” the child at night has not proven successful unless the child is fully awake.
 Alarms are not indicated for children under 7.
 With help your child might design a chart and choose “rewards” for dry nights and smaller wet “patches” in the bed. Praise, encouragement and patience is important, but if your child is wet, don’t scold or punish.
Research indicates that 15% of 5 year old children wet the bed, however this decreases to 5% of children at 10 years.
If your child continues to have enuresis over the age of 7 years you may contact (schools PHN details)

I don't really have any advice OP. But I just wanted to say that I am actually really upset at the way your dad is treating that poor little girl. Does he really believe she is doing it on purpose? Jesus. I'm lost for words.

cynder

Deliverance wrote: »

I wet till I was 12 and it was a very personal thing so I understand how it feels.

How times have changed, my dad was made sleep outside (under the caravan) when he wet the bed (also beaten black and blue while one parent held him down and the other beat him with a metal hover pipe (that also cut into his skin))

I think one of the worst bits was dreaming that you were on the toilet, because no matter what when you dreamt it you did it.

* there is a differnece between having a quick wash because your wearing a pull up and needing a shower because your covered in pee from you chest to your knees.. I think the choice is a very personal one for a child

wolfpawnat

OP get your mum to bring yoour sis to her GP and inform the GP of everything, including the threats, the GP will help from there. By informing them they can make sure there is a note in their files so if the father goes through with the threat, the proper parties are informed. Also your sister should tell the GP of the bullying (and that is what he is doing) and the treatment that ensues as a result of her accidents! It is IMO child cruelty!

I used to breed dogs and if the puppies peed indoors they were put on the newspaper and shown the index finger, they didnt get a meal or treats taken away from them, and when my son is getting out of his nappies I know there is a high chance I will have to deal with a few accidents but damn it they are children!

Her little mind is terrified of peeing in the bed there, that is why she barely ever does, but as she is in her own home with people who will not treat her cruelly if it accidently happens she is relaxed and that is why she is more likely to pee. It is common sense. When we are relaxed we are more likely to do things such as doze off on the couch but we won't if we think it will be used to be something to abuse us with!

That poor child has enough on her plate without having her own father speak to/about her like that!!!! It just proves that some people should not have children, she is so lucky to have a sister who cares so much for her and a daughter who cares so much for her family. Keep it up

up for anything

It is normal for some five year olds to wet the bed!

When I mentioned to my health visitor at a development check for my then baby that my daughter was still wetting the bed very regularly at 7, she asked permission to call round and start a new program with her. It was one that she had just completed a course on and was dying to try out on a live guinea pig. I remember that she had some information sheets geared towards children about the causes of bedwetting and we had to follow the instructions regarding not so much drinking before bed, as the type of drink allowed before bed. Otherwise it was basically where she told the child about her bladder, how it worked, how large it was and its capacity. I was fairly sceptical about the program working because it seemed nothing more than what I had always done but within two weeks she was dry at night. Maybe it worked because the child was involved in the how to of solving the problem rather than just me telling her no drinking before bed without an adequate explanation. I have since heard other people speak about the program and say how it worked for their children too.

It would be worthwhile to give your sister's health visitor a call and ask her about it and it would also show pro-activeness on your mother's part should it come up during custody/access hearings. It costs nothing and may be the answer.

Your father's actions leave me speechless which is lucky I guess, because otherwise I'd get banned for what I'd like to call him.

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone for posting.

I am going to show my mam this thread and we will take all advice on board.
Last week I gave my dad a piece of my mind about it and he hasn't been in contact since.
I'm doing up the bedroom atm (we share) and she slept in my bed 2 nights and was dry. I was delighted but more importantly she was delighted with herself!
I think she is trying extra hard because I had a chat with her about how it isn't her fault and stuff and that she won't be punished (because often she would change her nightclothes discreetly, i assume worried that she would get in trouble?) but if she wets to wake me up and I can change her bed etc.

Again thank you all, some very very helpful and supportive responses.

theg81der

Stressedoutaboutfamilylife wrote: »

Thanks everyone for posting.

I am going to show my mam this thread and we will take all advice on board.
Last week I gave my dad a piece of my mind about it and he hasn't been in contact since.
I'm doing up the bedroom atm (we share) and she slept in my bed 2 nights and was dry. I was delighted but more importantly she was delighted with herself!
I think she is trying extra hard because I had a chat with her about how it isn't her fault and stuff and that she won't be punished (because often she would change her nightclothes discreetly, i assume worried that she would get in trouble?) but if she wets to wake me up and I can change her bed etc.

Again thank you all, some very very helpful and supportive responses.

Have tears in my eyes after reading this - your such a great sister! I`m really touched by your maturity and the way you`ve stood up to your Dad.

Your sister is lucky to have you and I`m sure when she`s old enough she`ll tell you that.

You`re a star and I wish you all the luck in the word xxx.

Deliverance

'theg81der' said what I wanted to say. All that is left is: well done OP. Your lil sister is a lucky girl to have you that's for sure. If you were my daughter I would be proud.