DCM- question about energy gels

grifter09

Hey I have a few questions about the Dublin Marathon. Sorry if it should be in another allocated thread but anyway...

Does anyone know if there is a certain make of energy gel they will be handing out at the DCM? Or does it work that way?

Im new to running and read somewhere one should test the particular gel before the day.

thx

RacoonQueen

They've been giving out HI-5 gels for the last 3 years.

Krusty_Clown

In the past though, they have only handed them out at certain points during the race, which may not suit, so you should consider bringing your own. Try a few brands and see what suits you.

RubyK

Sorry to hijack, but do they also provide energy drinks or just water?

plodder

RubyK wrote: »

Sorry to hijack, but do they also provide energy drinks or just water?

The course map shows the places where gels and sports drink is supposed to be handed out. That was last years map.

From 2 years ago I thought there was only one place where they handed out a sports drink at about 8 miles, but I could be wrong.

ronanmac

Last year, the gels used were the High Five Isotonic caffeinated gels. Very easy on the stomach, you don't have to take water with them, but it helps to wash the taste out of your mouth.

Krusty_Clown

The sports drink of choice was Club Energise. Not my cup of tea.

How about we try to persuade some non-running Boards ART'ers to man an aid/support table, where we could put our own drinks and stuff? One of the quieter areas, like Orwell road (Mile 17)? Anyone think this would be a good idea?

ronanmac

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

How about we try to persuade some non-running Boards ART'ers to man an aid/support table, where we could put our own drinks and stuff? One of the quieter areas, like Orwell road (Mile 17)? Anyone think this would be a good idea?

That sounds like a great idea. I'd love a dose of chia seeds at about the 17 mile mark!

meathcountysec

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The sports drink of choice was Club Energise. Not my cup of tea.

How about we try to persuade some non-running Boards ART'ers to man an aid/support table, where we could put our own drinks and stuff? One of the quieter areas, like Orwell road (Mile 17)? Anyone think this would be a good idea?

As this is an AAI National Championships event and will be run in accordance with IAAF Rules the following may be worthy of note:

Rule 240 Para 8 (f)

An athlete who collects refreshment from a place other than the refreshment stations renders himself liable to disqualification.

Krusty_Clown

meathcountysec wrote: »

As this is an AAI National Championships event and will be run in accordance with IAAF Rules the following may be worthy of note:

Rule 240 Para 8 (f)

An athlete who collects refreshment from a place other than the refreshment stations renders himself liable to disqualification.

Fair enough meathcountysec, but surely that's a rule aimed at the elite runners, who are competing for the top prizes (those same elites who spend stretches of the race accompanied by their club cyclists). But for the other 10,266 runners, who don't have access to the elite runner's drop-off points, whose only delectable treats include the fruits and jellies handed out along the route, such a rule is just a bureaucratic two fingers to those who would describe DCM as the friendly marathon? Boo, I say. Down with your rule-book and your negativity.

grifter09

woah, i seem to have opened a big can of worms here, in my ignorance.

But thanks,
Ill check out those Hi5. Maybe try a few jelly beans in training too.

Im using SIS i just bought the other day and quite like them.
Maybe im a freak cause everyone else seems to dislike the texture of these gels.

Krusty_Clown

grifter09 wrote: »

woah, i seem to have opened a big can of worms here, in my ignorance.

Nah, just some tongue in cheek. Meathcountysec is correctly citing the rule-book, while I'm siding with the anarchists.

I'm a big fan of the SIS gels too. I use the Isotonic tropical flavour ones (I buy a box from Wiggle for around €30 for 30 gels). They're handy as you can take them between water stations and worst case scenario will provide a small (very meager) amount of hydration too. When I was gasping in 24'C heat in Berlin marathon last year, one of these was a life-saver.

meathcountysec

I’m not saying that one should not accept a jelly baby/coconut or whatever from a helpful member of the public but in effect setting up independent/rival aid stations is not on.

grifter09 wrote: »

woah, i seem to have opened a big can of worms here

If they are jelly worms it should be ok.

donothoponpop

meathcountysec wrote: »

As this is an AAI National Championships event and will be run in accordance with IAAF Rules the following may be worthy of note:

Rule 240 Para 8 (f)

An athlete who collects refreshment from a place other than the refreshment stations renders himself liable to disqualification.

The can of worms works both ways.

Rule 240 8 (d)

"d) Refreshments, which may be provided either by the Organising Committee or the athlete, shall be made available at the stations nominated by the athlete. They shall be placed so that they are easily accessible to, or may be put by authorised persons into the hands of, the athletes. Refreshments provided by the athletes shall be kept under the supervision of officials designated by the Organising Committee from the time that the refreshments are lodged by the athletes or their representatives."

So if each and every (club) athlete wants their own drink, they can give it to the organizers who will have to ensure its available to the runner at the designated station. And kept under supervision until its ready. Game on Krusty:)

SnappyDresser

In my experience all those enery drinks gels tablets dont significantly improve performance. If you take an energy drink just before start and bring along some glucose tablets that is all you need. Water along the way also but think its mad when you see all these people with 20 gels, attached water bottles etc. Its the lactic acid build up and ability to keep pushing mentally that determines success or failure. All the stuff faces with energy gels does not make much difference. At my last marathon bogtrotters I could see a guy with ten gels stapled to his water belt and thought that he will be suffering just the same as the rest at 22 miles and all he might get is a bit of a mental boost.

Krusty_Clown

Does this rule apply only to those who are competing in the AAI National Championships event, or are we all effectively competing in this event?

So, if the stranger at the side of the road isn't sitting at a table, we're good to go?

Krusty_Clown

i008787 wrote: »

At my last marathon bogtrotters I could see a guy with ten gels stapled to his water belt and thought that he will be suffering just the same as the rest at 22 miles and all he might get is a bit of a mental boost.

When I hit mile 29 of my 30 mile Bogtrotters 'marathon' I tell you I was bloody glad to have that gel. Water will take you only so far. Sports drink? Glucose tablets? They're just the same thing as carrying gels. Gels are just food. nothing magical about them.

meathcountysec

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Does this rule apply only to those who are competing in the AAI National Championships event, or are we all effectively competing in this event?

So, if the stranger at the side of the road isn't sitting at a table, we're good to go?

If a total random stranger, not related to you by DNA, marriage, divorce, blood group or membership of a popular online forum, takes it upon himself/herself to sit outside his/her own dwelling or any other establishment (or none) for the purpose of dispensing or making available to random passing members of the public, including but not restricted to marathon competitors, tit-bits, jellied eels or other such treats then that is another totally different kettle of horses.

Just don’t quote me.


IAAFcountysec

RayCun

Anyone else thinking 'Strangers on a Train'?

meathcountysec

RayCun wrote: »

Anyone else thinking 'Strangers on a Train'?

More like Strangers on a Forum

kaymin

i008787 wrote: »

In my experience all those enery drinks gels tablets dont significantly improve performance. If you take an energy drink just before start and bring along some glucose tablets that is all you need. Water along the way also but think its mad when you see all these people with 20 gels, attached water bottles etc. Its the lactic acid build up and ability to keep pushing mentally that determines success or failure. All the stuff faces with energy gels does not make much difference. At my last marathon bogtrotters I could see a guy with ten gels stapled to his water belt and thought that he will be suffering just the same as the rest at 22 miles and all he might get is a bit of a mental boost.

From Wikipedia, fountain of all knowledge:
hitting the wall or the bonk describes a condition caused by the depletion of glycogen stores in the liver and muscles, which manifests itself by precipitous fatigue and loss of energy. Milder instances can be remedied by brief rest and the ingestion of food or drinks containing carbohydrates. The condition can usually be avoided by ensuring that glycogen levels are high when the exercise begins, maintaining glycogen levels during exercise by eating or drinking carbohydrate-rich substances, or by reducing exercise intensity.

So in other words, hitting the wall isn't caused by lactic buildup but a lack of energy / reserves.

TFBubendorfer

From what I've heard today, both here and elsewhere, hitting the wall is caused by:

lactic acid buildup
depletion of glycogen
muscle damage

Glad that's all cleared up, then.

Guess what, if any of the above fails, you are going to struggle. And the only way to get round the problem is to train properly and be well prepared. A gel or not at mile 17 is not going to make any difference.

plodder

On the mental side of it, I was always sceptical that you could do much to overcome "the wall", but someone pointed out recently, there is effectively two walls - a psychological one, where the liver runs out of glycogen and the real hard physical one, when the muscles run out. There really isn't anything you can do about the second one (if it happens). But, since liver glycogen is actually intended for the brain rather than the muscles, when it runs out, the effect is psychological rather than physical. So, while your brain might be telling you to stop, in theory you can physically still keep up the pace, so long as there's some fuel stlll in the legs, and that's where the mental toughness comes in ... but also, it's where an immediate boost from a gel or sports drink could be very helpful.

catweazle

Do they hand out coke (cola;)) in DCM. I have been reading a few Ironman race reports and they all swear by the magical rejuvenating properties of coke (cola;)) when they were really suffering on the run.

Krusty_Clown

catweazle wrote: »

Do they hand out coke (cola;)) in DCM. I have been reading a few Ironman race reports and they all swear by the magical rejuvenating properties of coke (cola;)) when they were really suffering on the run.

Nope.

grifter09

the only thing coke is good for is making losers feel like winners...:cool:

SnappyDresser

grifter09 wrote: »

the only thing coke is good for is making losers feel like winners...:cool:

Meeting people on "coke" definitely is a scary thing. They usually say "I could do that", "I could be the best if....", "I am the f**king best"....scary bunch all right....:p

RubyK

Would it be unusual for a marathon to provide just water - no gels or energy drinks? Sorry, new to all this lark

Krusty_Clown

RubyK wrote: »

Would it be unusual for a marathon to provide just water - no gels or energy drinks? Sorry, new to all this lark

I don't think there is a rule of thumb. Certainly gels are rare enough, but most would have some form of sports drink and all should have water. Personally water's all I need, as I carry everything else I need myself.

rovers_runner

Best to order a box of the Hi-5 gels and use them during the LSRs for the next couple of months in the lead up if you want to use them on the day.

They had them on Fosters Ave also in 2007 & 2008 so that would make it 15/18/21 miles in approx.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/run/8/High5_Box_Of_20_38g_Energy_Gel_Sachets/5360024212/
DCM had plenty of the orange ones in recent years.

RubyK

Thanks KC and RR. Got notification that they will just be providing water this year.

I'll look into purchasing a holder for gels, and start getting used to them on LSR's.

Just editing, as I got another email - energy drinks on the course approx every 3 miles. There will also be two gel stations at 15 and 18

This makes me very happy!

Krusty_Clown

RubyK wrote: »

Thanks KC and RR. Got notification that they will just be providing water this year.

I'll look into purchasing a holder for gels, and start getting used to them on LSR's.

Which marathon are you doing RubyK? If it's DCM, I sincerely doubt it will just be water. They usually hand out water, gels and sports drinks.

RubyK

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Which marathon are you doing RubyK? If it's DCM, I sincerely doubt it will just be water. They usually hand out water, gels and sports drinks.

Yep, DCM 2010 KC. Just got word that it is only water on the day.

Edited, to show 2nd email reply - "energy drinks on the course approx every 3 miles. There will also be two gel stations at 15 and 18"

rovers_runner

RubyK wrote: »

Yep, DCM 2010 KC. Just got word that it is only water on the day.

<mod edit- I've just seen this post. You're entitled to hold negative opinions on whoever you like, nothing wrong with that. What you can't do is expect a third party (Boards.ie) to host those opinions where you name the individuals, that's slander>

Krusty_Clown

They still have Club Energise listed as a sponsor on their website.
(not that I would drink the stuff).

RubyK

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

They still have Club Energise listed as a sponsor on their website.
(not that I would drink the stuff).

Edited to say got confirmation - energy drinks on the course approx every 3 miles. There will also be two gel stations at 15 and 18

plodder

The last year I did it, they handed out 500ml bottles of some orange sports drink (Club Energise?). Nobody could drink all of it and an awful lot looked like it was wasted.

Personally, what matters to me is that water is provided in bottles rather than cups. I don't care whether sports drink or gels are given out.

Rebelrunner

is this a wind up - its fairly bad that Irelands capital marathon and the cost of entry - will only provide water. I know in Cork they had energy drink in cups at least... I'm glad I have seen this as I had not planned on taking any energy drink with me (I might have to review), probably take gels alright

Rebelrunner

Rebelrunner wrote: »

is this a wind up - its fairly bad that Irelands capital marathon and the cost of entry - will only provide water. I know in Cork they had energy drink in cups at least... I'm glad I have seen this as I had not planned on taking any energy drink with me (I might have to review), probably take gels alright

Don't know who ye have been emailing but got following back which is a relief:
three club energise stations and 2 gel stations same as 2009 map loactions

Hard Worker

rovers_runner wrote: »

Really?
Well I suppose it's no surprise when you consider how <mod snip-removed name> and co. are only interested in money these days i.e. too cheap to buy a Jones counter.

Seeing as I am part of the and co., and have been for 20 years without taking a penny, perhaps you would like to apologise for your offensive post.

rovers_runner

Hard Worker wrote: »

Seeing as I am part of the and co., and have been for 20 years without taking a penny, perhaps you would like to apologise for your offensive post.

Are the accounts of the race series / marathon published?
If so then I'll retract the comment on viewing them...

mod edit<I'll retract them for you- see comment above regarding slander>

RubyK

Sent a second email, and got this confirmation "energy drinks on the course approx every 3 miles. There will also be two gel stations at 15 and 18"

Hard Worker

rovers_runner wrote: »

Are the accounts of the race series / marathon published?
If so then I'll retract the comment on viewing them, aside it's reasonable to expect the standards of previous years and other big city marathons when you hand over the minimum of €70 * 11000 people approx.

Have you anything to add on the measurement of the Irish Runner 5 mile course?
Was the distance not checked on the morning of the event or did the organizers just shrug their shoulders?

An official statement was issued regarding the 5 mile race.
The marathon is set up as a limited company and has audited annual accounts, like any limited company should have. The marathon committee are all volunteers and draw on up to 900 other volunteers.
If you have any queries about the Dublin Marathon, you should firstly address those queries to the Marathon itself and not make offensive, ignorant posts on a public forum.

Hard Worker

RubyK wrote: »

I used the email address on their website.

This is the reply I got "Only water on the day".

I'm just delighted that you got a completely different answer.



Certainly not on my part.

Just wondering which e mail address you used. If you used the race series e mail address for your query, then the answer you received was correct ( water only for the 5, 10 and half ). However, if you used the marathon e mail address, you shouldn't have received a "water only" response.

shels4ever

rovers_runner wrote: »

Really?
Well I suppose it's no surprise when you consider how <removed name> and co. are only interested in money these days i.e. too cheap to buy a Jones counter.

Mistakes do happen, i'd be annoyed if i was running and the course was short, but thats going a bit far. I dont remember many problem with the series over the year apart from this, maybe crowd problems but nothing too bad, i've had questions answered and lost numbers sorted out by the race orgs and think they do a very good job.

RayCun

While I've no complaints about the price of the race series and marathon - I think they're good value - and accept that the problem with the short course was a genuine mistake on the day, and the course had been measured properly - could you tell me where this official statement was released?
I don't see anything on the marathon home page, and I didn't receive an email about it. The only 'official' recognition I'm aware of is a comment on the Facebook page.

rovers_runner

How is it ignorant to question the lack of clarity from organisers on the race day facilities?
Do you think it's reasonable for an event to charge the same fee year on year when they do not offer the same advantages?
I've already paid my entry fee and will be there gels/drinks or no gels/drinks.

RayCun

this is on the facebook page, in the comments to the post announcing the winners

Dublin Marathon There was one small hitch with Saturday’s race when it was discovered that the course was approximately 146 meters short. The problem was traced to a mistaken reading of the reference point for the official start on the main road of the Phoenix Park. We wish to apologise for the error to all who took part in the event.18 July at 20:34 ·

Hard Worker

rovers_runner wrote: »

How is it ignorant to question the lack of clarity from organisers on the race day facilities?
Do you think it's reasonable for an event to charge the same fee year on year when they do not offer the same advantages?
I've already paid my entry fee and will be there gels/drinks or no gels/drinks.


Can I have a link to the official statement from the organisers regarding the 5 mile course?
http://www.damiencarbery.com/5mile-times.php is all I have seen on their facebook page.

You have every right to query any aspect of the organisation. I have no problem with that. All feedback is very welcome, including critical feedback. That's how things improve. Mistakes have been made over the years and comments from runners have helped to make our races as professional, runner friendly and value for money as possible. The person you named in your earlier post, is, in my opinion, the best Race Director in the country. Your implication that he, and myself and the rest of the marathon organisers are only interested in money is insulting to me. That's the part I have a problem with.
Regarding the official statement: it was issued to the Indo, who were carrying the results, and also the Star and was responded to those on facebook who had made initial queries.

RubyK

Hard Worker wrote: »

Just wondering which e mail address you used. If you used the race series e mail address for your query, then the answer you received was correct ( water only for the 5, 10 and half ). However, if you used the marathon e mail address, you shouldn't have received a "water only" response.

Thanks Hard Worker, I sent a second email, and received confirmation of energy drinks every 3 miles and gels at mile 15 and 18. I've edited my previous posts to show this.

Relieved to know there'll be energy drinks and gels afterall

plodder

The FAQ section on the website hasn't really been updated in years. It mentions the water stations, but says nothing about gels or sports drink. So, it's not surprising that there'd be some confusion about this point.