Why is it impossible for some dog owners to walk their dogs on a leash?

iguana

Graces7 wrote: »

I find also your appraisal of dogs irrelevant and inaccurate also.

Inaccurate really? And your anthropological credentials are? The synergetic relationship between humans and dogs is well documented. We would not be where we are as a species without them.

But I do take massive issue with utter hyperbole surrounding the supposed issue of "safety". In lots of countries dogs have even far greater freedoms than they do in Ireland to no detrimental effect. In highly densely populated London dogs are allowed off lead almost everywhere, yet attacks in public places by off-lead dogs are extremely rare. Poorly exercised, badly socialised dogs become frustrated. Frustrated dogs are far more likely to be aggressive. It's why most dog bites in this country are done by the most highly energetic dog breeds.

lrushe

Graces7 wrote: »

Many owners manage just fine to exercise their dogs well without allowing them to be offleash.

How?? As the owner of a RB I am genuinely interested. You said you were lucky in that your dogs had a field to exercise in, not everyone has that luxury.

DBCyc

iguana wrote: »

But I do take massive issue with utter hyperbole surrounding the supposed issue of "safety".

+1. We have become obsessed with this perception of safety. Lets ban everything and live like hermits as Jinxi has suggested so that we can all be safe :rolleyes:

We have too many Helen Lovejoys around in my opinion.

cocker5

Personally i dont see the problem if dogs are walked off lead....
but for me it should be under simple conditions...

1. a safe area for the dog where they cannot get knocked down... i walk my cocker on a enclosed beach every evening..... my guy is not street wise!

2. they cannot be an agressive dog or offend (annoy / jump up) people... im luck my guy has little interest in strangers... plus he's a total pussy cat... he's very gentle...

I dont mind dogs off lead coming over and jumping up on me etc... but then again i love dogs...

There have been many occasions where other dogs (off lead) have gone for my dog... for me ANY dog with agression issues should NEVER be off lead :rolleyes:

Graces7

lrushe wrote: »

How?? As the owner of a RB I am genuinely interested. You said you were lucky in that your dogs had a field to exercise in, not everyone has that luxury.

What has that to do with this, please? :rolleyes:

I have said repeatedly that we would NEVER allow our dogs offlead in any public place ..

We have lived where we had to walk on leads; it is not a great problem. And certainly our doge have always been well exercised.

Graces7

DBCyc wrote: »

+1. We have become obsessed with this perception of safety. Lets ban everything and live like hermits as Jinxi has suggested so that we can all be safe :rolleyes:

We have too many Helen Lovejoys around in my opinion.

Who?

This is ridiculous "reasoning".. As many here have said, it is simply courtesy to others. And safety OF OTHERS does matter.

That is not obsessive, what tends ot the obsessive is dog owners who insist on their terms.

Someone mentioned other countries. In Canada for example dogs must b on lead unless in a designated dog area; they can be and are impounded.owners fined else.

You need to work towards more dog areas surely

Jinxi

I am no expert but IMO walking a dog on a leash would be like me strolling around my house every day. Enough to keep me from going insane, and with a reduced diet, it would stop me being overweight and my joints seizing up. But by no means would I be fit and at optimum health.

Again, I understand that dogs should be on leash in certain situations, around kids, joggers, in town, etc., but don't fool yourself into thinking that walking a dog on leash for 40 mins everyday is sufficient for optimum health(medium breeds+)

As for comparisons to other countries and their norms/laws concerning walking dogs in public...this is a moot point because you live HERE!

In a perfect world, there would be doggie parks where we could go with our well behaved/socialised pooches and stay out of grouchy peoples way.

DBCyc

Graces7 wrote: »

Who?

This is ridiculous "reasoning".. As many here have said, it is simply courtesy to others. And safety OF OTHERS does matter.

That is not obsessive, what tends ot the obsessive is dog owners who insist on their terms.

Someone mentioned other countries. In Canada for example dogs must b on lead unless in a designated dog area; they can be and are impounded.owners fined else.

You need to work towards more dog areas surely

Helen Lovejoy

You can extend the appropriate courtesy to others by training your dog adequately that they can be safely let off the lead without bothering anyone or any other dog. If you cannot achieve this for whatever reason, then by all means you should keep your dog on the lead.

The actions of a couple of irresponsible owners should not preclude the rest of us from excercising our dogs in public off the lead. It is ridiculous "reasoning" to suggest that because of a few idiots, the rest of us should suffer.

cocker5

DBCyc wrote: »

Helen Lovejoy

You can extend the appropriate courtesy to others by training your dog adequately that they can be safely let off the lead without bothering anyone or any other dog. If you cannot achieve this for whatever reason, then by all means you should keep your dog on the lead.

The actions of a couple of irresponsible owners should not preclude the rest of us from excercising our dogs in public off the lead. It is ridiculous "reasoning" to suggest that because of a few idiots, the rest of us should suffer.

Love it!! the link.... Hilarious made me burst out laughing... now all my work mates are looking at me funny!

rainbowtrout

Graces7 wrote: »

Who?

This is ridiculous "reasoning".. As many here have said, it is simply courtesy to others. And safety OF OTHERS does matter.

That is not obsessive, what tends ot the obsessive is dog owners who insist on their terms.

Someone mentioned other countries. In Canada for example dogs must b on lead unless in a designated dog area; they can be and are impounded.owners fined else.

You need to work towards more dog areas surely

But we are not in Canada. You could take plenty of European examples where dogs are allowed pretty much everywhere (unlike Ireland) and are perfectly well behaved off lead. I've seen dogs on the U-Bahn in Berlin, and in shops, restaurants and supermarkets in Holland. All perfectly well behaved and many off lead. I have two dogs, both Jack Russells and full of energy. I walk them off lead all the time. They need it, a walk on a lead would not be enough to tire them out and they would have the house destroyed from all the extra energy they would have. They can both walk 10 miles no bother and still spend the evening chasing each other around the house. Although both have good recall, one of them has a tendency to run up to other dogs and bark. So when I see other people approaching with dogs I put him on a lead until we have passed the other dog and then leave him off again. Everyone's a winner. I live in a small town, so I am seen walking the dogs around the area regularly and I've had a few people mention in passing how well behaved my two are off lead. To be honest there are plenty of children who are very badly behaved and would benefit from being on leads instead of annoying the general public.

As for more dog areas. I'm sure many people here would welcome more areas to walk their dogs, particularly if they live in urban areas, but not if it meant those were the only places they could bring their dogs. That's no way to socialise a dog. Don't tar all dog owners with the same brush.

seamus

Graces7 wrote: »

I find also your appraisal of dogs irrelevant and inaccurate also.

History lessons aside, studies have shown that people who own pets live longer, are less stressed and less depressed than those who don't. More specifically dog owners and get more exercise than people who don't have dogs.
So ignoring any past benefit, there's a list of reasons as long as your arm as to why we should be encouraging people to have dogs and treat them with respect rather than as a pest that we should hide away from other people.

Especially in a very simple safety issue.

An overblown safety issue is what it is. The vast majority of dog bites are perpetrated by a dog known to the "victim". In the Unites States, fatal attacks make up about 0.0007% of dog bites. Out of all deaths in the US, they account for 0.00001% of deaths. That's close enough to be statistically insignificant.

Your odds of being killed by a dog attack this year are about 1 in 13 million. Think of all of the everyday things we do which carry a far higher risk, yet don't receive anything approaching the column inches.

For example, you are:
26 times more likely to choke on a piece of food or suffocate while sleeping (because you rolled onto your face)
1300 times more likely to commit suicide (no, really).

You get the picture. I'm not trying to downplay dog attacks - they're very unlikely to be fatal, but that doesn't mean there are very few of them. However the severity of an attack and the relative risk to oneself posed when you are attacked is very low compared to any other kind of incident. We spend a lot of time worrying about potential minor injuries from animals when there are a lot of other things out there which pose a far higher danger. Far more people end up dead and in hospital every year from simply falling over in their own home. Where are the headlines? Where are the people screaming about the humanity of it?

Graces7

Jinxi wrote: »

I am no expert but IMO walking a dog on a leash would be like me strolling around my house every day. Enough to keep me from going insane, and with a reduced diet, it would stop me being overweight and my joints seizing up. But by no means would I be fit and at optimum health.

Again, I understand that dogs should be on leash in certain situations, around kids, joggers, in town, etc., but don't fool yourself into thinking that walking a dog on leash for 40 mins everyday is sufficient for optimum health(medium breeds+)

As for comparisons to other countries and their norms/laws concerning walking dogs in public...this is a moot point because you live HERE!

In a perfect world, there would be doggie parks where we could go with our well behaved/socialised pooches and stay out of grouchy peoples way.

And here I would not allow my dogs offlead in a public place - period.

So because some of us have different ideas we get called "grouchy"! You are so funny! Not.

So many incidents like the OPs that it is hardly a few of course.

Many run wih their dogs, or even cycle. There are always ways. Always.

Jinxi

Graces7 wrote: »

So because some of us have different ideas we get called "grouchy"! You are so funny! Not.

Way to take things pesonally:rolleyes:

YOU have the right not to ever let your dogs off leash in public


Just as I have to right to let mine off if I judge her to be under my control!

Live with it!:cool:

sambuka41

If we keep dogs on the lead and away from children and busy areas we WILL CREATE THE VERY THING YOU ARE AFRAID OF a poorly socialized dog that's likely to bite. Allowing them to be around people,noise and other distractions is how we train them not to bite or generally be a nuisance. Its how they learn.

sambuka41

Graces7 wrote: »

Many run wih their dogs, or even cycle. There are always ways. Always.

I live near the city center the roads are very narrow as well as very,very busy. I would put MORE people in danger by trying to cycle with my dog. The pathways are also busy so running would be hard. BUT there is a great big park that she runs around daily and she is a healthier dog for it.

Graces7

sambuka41 wrote: »

If we keep dogs on the lead and away from children and busy areas we WILL CREATE THE VERY THING YOU ARE AFRAID OF a poorly socialized dog that's likely to bite. Allowing them to be around people,noise and other distractions is how we train them not to bite or generally be a nuisance. Its how they learn.

That is rubbish. A dog on a lead is acessible to all. It is far easier to socialise a dog if it is on a lead. And being on a lead does not prevent them being away from busy areas, noise etc; in fact it enhances that ability. As then they can be walked anywhere. And be moe widely socialied while still under control.

And children are easier to accustom to dogs if they are on a lead.

it is the ones allowed to run free in public who are causing issues; please read the OP again and the thread on boxers.

Graces7

Jinxi wrote: »

Way to take things pesonally:rolleyes:

YOU have the right not to ever let your dogs off leash in public


Just as I have to right to let mine off if I judge her to be under my control!

Live with it!:cool:

My ! Such aggression! I think that this answers the OP wonderfully and fully.. Over and out...

Quality

I spend a lot of time walking my dog on the beach, the way I see it, is that if someone approaches me with their dog on a leash, I leash up my dog,

If they approach me with the dog off the leash, well then I leave my dog off the lead,

My dog is a lab so she is big but very friendly, generally she will just go over for a sniff and jump around for a while.


I hate when I have my dog on a lead and someone has their dog off the lead and they are following me up the road cause it is hard to manage my big friendly lab, who just wants to play!

Most people are friendly but some people can be very rude, I have been verbally abused, even after I have apologised and explained my dog is just a pup.



I think people should just have a bit of cop on, and try and judge the situation.

sambuka41

Graces7 wrote: »

That is rubbish. A dog on a lead is acessible to all. It is far easier to socialise a dog if it is on a lead. And being on a lead does not prevent them being away from busy areas, noise etc; in fact it enhances that ability. As then they can be walked anywhere. And be moe widely socialied while still under control.

And children are easier to accustom to dogs if they are on a lead.

it is the ones allowed to run free in public who are causing issues; please read the OP again and the thread on boxers.

Firstly I have the most excitable puppy in all the world and she is under my control at all times,I dont need the lead, I trained her that way. So the lead makes no difference to me bringing her anywhere.

In my experience children want to play with a dog,not admire it like adults. Ruby is mad for kids,they love how she runs circles around them. And im there to stop her if she gets to hyper, also without the lead.

There is the problem that means that your dog only knows how to behave in a given situation on a lead, what happens if your dog escapes or for some reason comes across a child and its not on the lead? They wont know how to react in that situation,they may get carried away with excitement of the children. If they are accustomed to being around people without the lead then theres a better chance that they will come to you when called.

There are people out there that dont put time or effort into training their dogs but why should the rest of us suffer for it. Also why should the kids and dogs suffer for it. Ruby has her own little friends down the road that she would miss playing with.

ISDW

Again, we come back to the 'under control' bit. A dog can be under control off a lead, and definitely not under control on a lead. I'm sure we've all seen dogs on a lead pulling their owner along, even fighting, so obviously not under the owner's control.

I've had dogs in the past that I have let off the lead at parks, beaches, forests etc, and they came back when called and behaved beautifully. However, now I have huskies and malamutes, I don't let them off the lead and yes, I think its quite sad, I love to see them run but we're lucky, I bought a house with land and paid a fortune to have it fenced, so they have an area where they can run free.

I totally understand that some people are very scared of dogs, but we come yet again to the under control bit. If you have taken the time to train your dog, then they shouldn't go near strangers and frighten them. But, not everybody does take that time, so loose dogs do scare people, but then so do some on leads as yet again, they may be attached to the owner, but they are not under control.

Tryst

personally this all boils down to common sense, i have no problems with dogs being off leads and in fairness the majority of them are very well trained from what I can see. I do have to deal with a lot of dogs coming into where i work covered in bites because someone let their dog off the leash and it fought with another one. The worst case was of a ten year old minature poodle a little old lady was walking on its lead and some idiot had his badly trained german shepherd off the lead so the german shepherd saw the poodle, ran over pciked it up by the head and shook it around like a rag doll. The poor thing had to be put down because its skull had been punctured several times causing the poodles brain to swell. When i see things like this I can see why people want leash laws enforced. What if that had been a small child instead of a dog...

Whispered

Graces7 wrote: »

What has that to do with this, please? :rolleyes:

I have said repeatedly that we would NEVER allow our dogs offlead in any public place .. .

I'd be interested to know how you exercise your dogs please without letting them off a lead (in Ireland I mean as in Canada I'm sure you have a sufficient number of dog parks). I have a dog which legally cannot be offlead in public areas and sufficient exercise can be a problem. So I'd love to hear how you manage it.

morganafay

I was just walking my dogs now and a big rottie and husky came running up to us, on their own. I love dogs, and have never met an aggressive rottie or husky personally, but I was terrified! Luckily they were friendly, but what if one of my dogs had growled at them and it started a fight. My dogs probably wouldn't do that, but other dogs might. All I could think was that if they attack my dogs, then there's nothing I could do except scream for help, and there was nobody around. There'd be no way I fight off a big dog, not to mind two.

They were friendly dogs, but owners shouldn't just let them run around, because you never know . . . oh and the dogs could have been hit by a car.

Obviously that's way different to having dogs off the leash and under control. But it just shows what some people are like. :rolleyes:


I do think it's really important for dogs to have a run around, but people really need to keep them under control. (I'm sure people on here do, but people in my town usually don't!)

lrushe

Graces7 wrote: »

What has that to do with this, please? :rolleyes:

I have said repeatedly that we would NEVER allow our dogs offlead in any public place ..

We have lived where we had to walk on leads; it is not a great problem. And certainly our doge have always been well exercised.

It has everything to do with it, if I had my very own field in which to exercise my dogs I'd have no need to bring them to places to let them get some freedom.
When I bring my dogs to an open air market or the garden centre of course they are on the leash, but a wide open park, please, it would be like bringing a child to a sweet shop and telling them the couldn't have anything!
I have small, medium and large breed dogs, all needing various levels of exercise, having them off leash means each dogs needs are being met. My medium and large dogs can run / swim till their hearts content while my smaller dog can trott around at her own pace. If I ran / cycled with my three dogs I'd 1) end up in a knot of leashes or 2) would be either going too fast or too slow for one or other of my dogs.
Put yourself in a dogs position, which would you prefer, I know which one I would.

morganafay

lrushe wrote: »

I have small, medium and large breed dogs, all needing various levels of exercise, having them off leash means each dogs needs are being met. My medium and large dogs can run / swim till their hearts content while my smaller dog can trott around at her own pace. If I ran / cycled with my three dogs I'd 1) end up in a knot of leashes or 2) would be either going too fast or too slow for one or other of my dogs.
Put yourself in a dogs position, which would you prefer, I know which one I would.

You're definitely right there. And some dogs can't go for a run on the road, or even walk much on the road because it hurts their joints. My dogs can run around a field for a couple of hours, but can't walk on the road for more than half an hour to an hour. And running is much better exercise anyway.

My dogs are all the same size but one does like to walk much faster than the others, and one is lazy, and they tangle each other up even just when walking!

sparkling sea

There is no excuse for not having a dog on a leash, no matter how good etc you feel your dog is, strangers will never be sure what the dogs temperament is and this will make some people extremely uncomfortable, its very thoughtless not to realise this.

Not everyone who goes for a walk on the beach or anywhere else has a dog or wants to be confronted by a dog, whether friendly or not. If people don't want this to be a compulsory rule they shouldn't act with such indifference for the rest of their community.

Further no matter how well behaved a dog is, not all children are well behaved and some can be rough with dogs - if the dog is on a lead its owner can pull it way immediately - if the dog is not on a lead the owner does not have the same degree of control and things can get out of hand leading to the dog, the child, the parents and the owners all being upset.

The problem with owners leaving their dogs of leads is exactly that - a problem. It is constantly discussed on boards, on the radio and even occassionally on televison. As a dog owner I fully realise that my dog is exactly that mine and as lovely as he is, its my job a responsible owner to make sure he doesn't make others feel in any way afraid.
It would be nice if we lived in a world where people considered each other with out the need for the government to have to legislate for it

Graces7

Whispered wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how you exercise your dogs please without letting them off a lead (in Ireland I mean as in Canada I'm sure you have a sufficient number of dog parks). I have a dog which legally cannot be offlead in public areas and sufficient exercise can be a problem. So I'd love to hear how you manage it.

You need a new thread for that issue..... it is however perfectly possible.

I have family in Canada by the way. Never been there.

lrushe

sparkling sea wrote: »

There is no excuse for not having a dog on a leash, no matter how good etc you feel your dog is, strangers will never be sure what the dogs temperament is and this will make some people extremely uncomfortable, its very thoughtless not to realise this.

Not everyone who goes for a walk on the beach or anywhere else has a dog or wants to be confronted by a dog, whether friendly or not. If people don't want this to be a compulsory rule they shouldn't act with such indifference for the rest of their community.

Further no matter how well behaved a dog is, not all children are well behaved and some can be rough with dogs - if the dog is on a lead its owner can pull it way immediately - if the dog is not on a lead the owner does not have the same degree of control and things can get out of hand leading to the dog, the child, the parents and the owners all being upset.

The problem with owners leaving their dogs of leads is exactly that - a problem. It is constantly discussed on boards, on the radio and even occassionally on televison. As a dog owner I fully realise that my dog is exactly that mine and as lovely as he is, its my job a responsible owner to make sure he doesn't make others feel in any way afraid.
It would be nice if we lived in a world where people considered each other with out the need for the government to have to legislate for it

The health and well-being of my dog(s) is not an excuse to let my dogs off leash, its a fact and its v.thoughtless of YOU not to realise that.
My dogs do not approach strangers, they have no interest in meeting people they don't know unless given to ok by me. They are usually far more interested in their walk.
Don't even get me started on how parents should teach their children how to act around strange dogs, that's a topic in itself, hence why I rarely allow a strange child to go near my dogs (much to their parents annoyance I might add).
You're right it would be nice if we lived in a world where people considered each other, but don't forget consideration works both ways, you can't have it all your own way. This is why I think people should have to complete an obedience course before being allowed to let their dogs off in public and have something that is visible for all to see so people know that this dog is trustworthy. That's my idea of consideration.

Graces7

sparkling sea wrote: »

There is no excuse for not having a dog on a leash, no matter how good etc you feel your dog is, strangers will never be sure what the dogs temperament is and this will make some people extremely uncomfortable, its very thoughtless not to realise this.

Not everyone who goes for a walk on the beach or anywhere else has a dog or wants to be confronted by a dog, whether friendly or not. If people don't want this to be a compulsory rule they shouldn't act with such indifference for the rest of their community.

Further no matter how well behaved a dog is, not all children are well behaved and some can be rough with dogs - if the dog is on a lead its owner can pull it way immediately - if the dog is not on a lead the owner does not have the same degree of control and things can get out of hand leading to the dog, the child, the parents and the owners all being upset.

The problem with owners leaving their dogs of leads is exactly that - a problem. It is constantly discussed on boards, on the radio and even occassionally on televison. As a dog owner I fully realise that my dog is exactly that mine and as lovely as he is, its my job a responsible owner to make sure he doesn't make others feel in any way afraid.
It would be nice if we lived in a world where people considered each other with out the need for the government to have to legislate for it

You are 100% right of course; but as you are aware there are many here who will go on and on arguing against this full sense and caring.

Which is why the legislation is needed.

Take no heed of the replies I have no doubt there will be to this. And thank you.

lrushe

Graces7 wrote: »

Take no heed of the replies .

Does that include yours??????????:rolleyes: