Why is it impossible for some dog owners to walk their dogs on a leash?

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

History lessons aside, studies have shown that people who own pets live longer, are less stressed and less depressed than those who don't. More specifically dog owners and get more exercise than people who don't have dogs.
So ignoring any past benefit, there's a list of reasons as long as your arm as to why we should be encouraging people to have dogs and treat them with respect rather than as a pest that we should hide away from other people.

An overblown safety issue is what it is. The vast majority of dog bites are perpetrated by a dog known to the "victim". In the Unites States, fatal attacks make up about 0.0007% of dog bites. Out of all deaths in the US, they account for 0.00001% of deaths. That's close enough to be statistically insignificant.

Your odds of being killed by a dog attack this year are about 1 in 13 million. Think of all of the everyday things we do which carry a far higher risk, yet don't receive anything approaching the column inches.

For example, you are:
26 times more likely to choke on a piece of food or suffocate while sleeping (because you rolled onto your face)
1300 times more likely to commit suicide (no, really).

You get the picture. I'm not trying to downplay dog attacks - they're very unlikely to be fatal, but that doesn't mean there are very few of them. However the severity of an attack and the relative risk to oneself posed when you are attacked is very low compared to any other kind of incident. We spend a lot of time worrying about potential minor injuries from animals when there are a lot of other things out there which pose a far higher danger. Far more people end up dead and in hospital every year from simply falling over in their own home. Where are the headlines? Where are the people screaming about the humanity of it?

Is there an emoticon for very LOUD raspberry? VERY LOUD!

This is totally irrelevant clutter. Nothing to do with anything under discussion here.... Just .....clutter and non-sense. The OPs' dog was attacked by an off leash dog. And rghtly she is very upset.

How is the dog OP? THAT is what and who matter here. is his mouth better?

DBCyc

Graces7 wrote: »

Is there an emoticon for very LOUD raspberry? VERY LOUD!

This is totally irrelevant clutter. Nothing to do with anything under discussion here.... Just .....clutter and non-sense. The OPs' dog was attacked by an off leash dog. And rghtly she is very upset.

How is the dog OP? THAT is what and who matter here. is his mouth better?

To be honest - all of the nonsense is coming from your end. The OP had a bad experience with a dog that was obviously not under the control of its owner. This is not right. But the OP started ranting about all other dogs that are off the lead are usually aggressive. This is also nonsense.

You entered the discussion not knowing what the law is and are now calling for legislation to be introduced. On what basis? Because a few people are nervous of dogs?

There is no reason to punish those responsible owners from bringing their dogs out for an off lead run about. These owners do not let their dogs approach other dogs, people or children and will therefore never bother you. You probably pass them every day but just don't notice.

Bullseye1

In fairness to the OP she has every right to be upset at the owner of the dog in question. But the OP post also gives the impression that all dogs off the leash are rogues. This is clearly not the case. Dogs need the freedom to run off leash. Unfortunately it's getting harder and harder to do this in a safe environment. Is it me or are people on these forums intollerent of dogs?

andrewire

Bullseye1 wrote: »

In fairness to the OP she has every right to be upset at the owner of the dog in question. But the OP post also gives the impression that all dogs off the leash are rogues. This is clearly not the case. Dogs need the freedom to run off leash. Unfortunately it's getting harder and harder to do this in a safe environment. Is it me or are people on these forums intollerent of dogs?

Thanks. Not all the dogs I've encountered running free are aggressive. In Dublin is really hard to find a decent place to walk your dog safely on or off the leash. We need more parks for this purpose.

iguana

Graces7 wrote: »

This is totally irrelevant clutter. Nothing to do with anything under discussion here.... Just .....clutter and non-sense. The OPs' dog was attacked by an off leash dog. And rghtly she is very upset.

Well once I was raped by a man and I hereby propose that we put all men on a leash as I was rightly very upset by it.

Grow up.

Bullseye1

andrewire wrote: »

Thanks. Not all the dogs I've encountered running free are aggressive. In Dublin is really hard to find a decent place to walk your dog safely on or off the leash. We need more parks for this purpose.

It is a pity there are not more facilities for dog owners in this country. I like to bring Makena to the beach but it has to be very early when no one is around. And am I the only dog owner who picks up after his dog on this beach:rolleyes: and worse still are the scumbags who leave nappies.....nappies on the beach.

cucoigcrice

Hi follks, i dont let my dog of the lead for one particular reason i cannot trust him around other dogs, however he is getting better.(rescued dog) I have met many other walkiers and dogs of good and bad nature off the lead. There are several occasions where other dogs have come up to my dog when he on the lead and there is a slight disagreement between them. A person in particular whom constantly has dog off the lead ignores the fact that their dog riles mine up and walks on. I have told them on many of occasions but they never listen. I feel like giving them a kick up the arse, the owner that is.
On one instant i was walking my dog around the gaa grounds at 7am on the lead and i seen a man and 2 gsd and 1 lab coming up the other side. All dogs where off the lead however i stayed relaxed as not to upset my dog. The 2 gsd ran towards us at great speed the man far behind with the lab. The 2 gsd came up and started fighting with my dog, one threw him up in the air while the other near turned on me. I then shouted to the owner to get his Fcuking dogs away. He walked over until i shouted and screamed louder while trying to help my dog. He began to run, he managed to pull his dogs away i lifted mine up, checking for injuries. Luckly he was ok. But again i told this man that his dogs should be on a lead at all times in a public place as the law states. I didnt even get much of an apologie:mad:
This is why it is so important to have a dog on a lead, another reason is incase a person is afraid of dogs. To have a dog come up to you and you having a phobia is a terrifing experience

Whispered

Graces7 wrote: »

You need a new thread for that issue..... it is however perfectly possible.
.

It's directly relating to the subject of the thread. If you don't want to answer just say so. Although I can't understand why you felt the need to respond in such a way to me, I'm genuinely wondering how. I have to find sneaky little areas, I'd love to know how to exercise properly without having to do that.

arybvtcw0eolkf

A Changer wrote: »

I feel the same way as the OP. I hate walking outside when people are walking their dog(s) (or more like the dog are walking them), and they're not on leashes. I've had horrible experiences in my childhood of getting chased by St. Bernards, Great Danes, Alsatians, you name it, that I have a bit of an aversion to big dogs. Little ones don't bother me as much,

Something along the lines of this little terror perhaps?.

Graces7

Whispered wrote: »

It's directly relating to the subject of the thread. If you don't want to answer just say so. Although I can't understand why you felt the need to respond in such a way to me, I'm genuinely wondering how. I have to find sneaky little areas, I'd love to know how to exercise properly without having to do that.

If the other posters here were as pleasant as you are then fine; sadly from some of the replies coming in overnight, that is not so. Hence my caginess of course. Many cannot discuss calmly as we see here.

Graces7

iguana wrote: »

Well once I was raped by a man and I hereby propose that we put all men on a leash as I was rightly very upset by it.

Grow up.

Sorry you suffered that; have you had counselling? If they caught the man of course he will be locked up.

This post is an example of why sensible, adult discussions get derailed here. Hurl insults if someone has a different view from you? Ah well! happens so often.

If you cannot respond sensibly why bother?

Graces7

andrewire wrote: »

Thanks. Not all the dogs I've encountered running free are aggressive. In Dublin is really hard to find a decent place to walk your dog safely on or off the leash. We need more parks for this purpose.

Absolutely; but meanwhile take care re others, please.

morganafay

cucoigcrice wrote: »

Hi follks, i dont let my dog of the lead for one particular reason i cannot trust him around other dogs, however he is getting better.(rescued dog) I have met many other walkiers and dogs of good and bad nature off the lead. There are several occasions where other dogs have come up to my dog when he on the lead and there is a slight disagreement between them. A person in particular whom constantly has dog off the lead ignores the fact that their dog riles mine up and walks on. I have told them on many of occasions but they never listen. I feel like giving them a kick up the arse, the owner that is.
On one instant i was walking my dog around the gaa grounds at 7am on the lead and i seen a man and 2 gsd and 1 lab coming up the other side. All dogs where off the lead however i stayed relaxed as not to upset my dog. The 2 gsd ran towards us at great speed the man far behind with the lab. The 2 gsd came up and started fighting with my dog, one threw him up in the air while the other near turned on me. I then shouted to the owner to get his Fcuking dogs away. He walked over until i shouted and screamed louder while trying to help my dog. He began to run, he managed to pull his dogs away i lifted mine up, checking for injuries. Luckly he was ok. But again i told this man that his dogs should be on a lead at all times in a public place as the law states. I didnt even get much of an apologie:mad:
This is why it is so important to have a dog on a lead, another reason is incase a person is afraid of dogs. To have a dog come up to you and you having a phobia is a terrifing experience

But not all dog owners will be like that.

That man obviously didn't really care about the law or other people/dogs being attacked, so people like that wouldn't change even if there was a law that every dog had to be on a lead.

Shenshen

iguana wrote: »

And I prefer not to be around babies. Many women who are victims of serious male violence prefer not to be around men. Recently recovering alcoholics prefer to not see alcohol adverts and tv characters drinking alcohol every 5 minutes on television. Diabetics may prefer not to be around people chomping cake in a restaurant. Vegetarians don't like watching people stuff their faces with burgers on the bus. People with kidney problems find it unhelpful to smell the lovely salt and vinegar scent of chips when they could die from eating them.

But that's life, we all have to cope with things we might prefer not to. Most dogs NEED to be exercised off lead. It's necessary for their energy levels and their socialisation. Keeping them on the lead all the time is cruel. And you know what, our species created dogs and flourished for it. We would never have advanced the way we did as a species without our relationship with dogs. They contributed far more to our hunting abilities than they required in nutrition in return. Not only that but the way we have bred dogs into different species which are suseptible to species specific health problems is now providing utterly invaluable information on the causes and treatments of life threatening human illness, such as congenital heart failure. As such we are responsible for dogs, we have a rather symbiotic relationship with them and we owe it to them that we meet their needs.

I'll go tell that to the mother of the little child that was bitten yesterday while playing in her front garden in an estate around the corner from where I live by a dog whose owner had decided it was perfectly safe to leave it to run around without a leash.
I'm sure it will be great comfort to her to know the dog got its full right to exercise.

Shenshen

Jinxi wrote: »

I actually agree with you. Everyone who goes out the door does so with the knowledge that there are dogs out there off leash, cars that are driven by morons, accidents that happen all the time, maniacs who can hurt you walking about etc. You CHOSE to go out into the world each day assuming some risk.

There will always be dogs off leash, there will always be unresponsible owners, there will always be a perfectly placid dog who will out of chartacter snap.

I am a recent dog owner. But even before I got a dog, I never had a problem with dogs off leash. Owners know their dog temprements. 99% of dogs are off leash because owners trust them around other people/dogs/children etc. The owners that know their dog is a risk and let them off leash are psycho, but they exist too. Its the ones on leash I worry about.

You can tell by a dogs body language if they want to be petted or not. A good rule of thumb is ignore and don't scream(this can freak out even a placid dog).

But if you chose to go out into the world, you assume the risk. Your alternative is to become a hermit.

There is risk, and there is unnecessary risk.
To go with your traffic example, that's why there are speed limits.

As I said before, I've got no problem with people letting the dog run free when there are few or no people around, in fields and the like.
But in a densely populated area, especially where there are children around, I can't accept that this constitutes responsible behaviour in any shape or form.

seamus

Shenshen wrote: »

But in a densely populated area, especially where there are children around, I can't accept that this constitutes responsible behaviour in any shape or form.

You could equally say the same thing about driving in a densely populated area. Using a vehicle at all where there are children around is a very risky activity, far riskier than an offlead dog. You could drive around the area and avoid taking this unnecessary risk.
Risks are unnecessary 99% of time. However, avoiding unnecessary risk makes life unnecessarily difficult. We weigh up the possible risk against the benefit and decide which is worth more. In this case, an offlead dog under good control poses little risk (practically none) to other people, and allows the dog to get more exercise. Therefore being offlead is the preferable choice.

I'm no advocating having all dogs off the lead all the time. An uncontrolled dog is a nuisance for people for and other dogs alike, but the safety issue is a red herring - it's secondary and barely worthy of consideration.

Shenshen

DBCyc wrote: »

To be honest - all of the nonsense is coming from your end. The OP had a bad experience with a dog that was obviously not under the control of its owner. This is not right. But the OP started ranting about all other dogs that are off the lead are usually aggressive. This is also nonsense.

You entered the discussion not knowing what the law is and are now calling for legislation to be introduced. On what basis? Because a few people are nervous of dogs?

There is no reason to punish those responsible owners from bringing their dogs out for an off lead run about. These owners do not let their dogs approach other dogs, people or children and will therefore never bother you. You probably pass them every day but just don't notice.

You know that some dogs are a risk.

To compare that to traffic legislation, saying that responsible owners will know when their dog might pose a danger is a bit like saying responsible drivers know when they can drive as fast as they like, so we don't need speed limits on roads.

Yes, there certainly are people like that around, no doubt. But there also are lots and lots of others, who will think they know until they find out that they don't. And if they're lucky, nobody gets hurt when they do find out.

Shenshen

morganafay wrote: »

But not all dog owners will be like that.

That man obviously didn't really care about the law or other people/dogs being attacked, so people like that wouldn't change even if there was a law that every dog had to be on a lead.

Of course not. And not everybody would steal a purse that was left lying around, but some still do.
The fact that people will disobey a law is not a very strong argument to not putting one in place.

Shenshen

seamus wrote: »

You could equally say the same thing about driving in a densely populated area. Using a vehicle at all where there are children around is a very risky activity, far riskier than an offlead dog. You could drive around the area and avoid taking this unnecessary risk.
Risks are unnecessary 99% of time. However, avoiding unnecessary risk makes life unnecessarily difficult. We weigh up the possible risk against the benefit and decide which is worth more. In this case, an offlead dog under good control poses little risk (practically none) to other people, and allows the dog to get more exercise. Therefore being offlead is the preferable choice.

I'm no advocating having all dogs off the lead all the time. An uncontrolled dog is a nuisance for people for and other dogs alike, but the safety issue is a red herring - it's secondary and barely worthy of consideration.

Are you aware of the fact that there are speed limits in densely populated areas to minimise exactly that risk? And that there are separate areas for vehicles and pedestrians?

What legislation is there to minimise the risk of a dog freaking out and hurting someone? What separate areas? Any at all?

And I must be an amazing statistical anomaly, then, seeing as I was attacked by a dog and know a total of 5 people who were attacked as well, with the scars to show for it.

tk123

These threads always confuse me.. Are we talking about dogs roaming the streets or eg dogs being off their leads in the park outside of the allowed times or are we talking about them being off their leads full stop regardless of off lead times in parks etc?!

PS sorry if that confused anyone!

adser53

this is getting old very fast. look, we as dog owners have a RIGHT to exercise our dogs off leash if they are under control. if your dog is a nuisance then you don't have that right. average joe public also has the right to walk about unmolested. the 2 are directly related. the problem here isn't well behaved dogs and responsible owners. its the people who are inconsiderate with badly behaved dogs that cause all the problems for dog owners and non dog owners alike. I can't walk my Akita off lead or without a muzzle because of an unfair law brought in the combat the behaviour of a slight minority of bad dogs and owners. to even suggest that ALL dogs be kept on a leash is silly and once again the good majority suffers. for all you posters that have phobias and such, I do sympathise with you but dogs are part of everyday life. in this case, you're the minority so to expect every dog owner to leash their dogs is just as unreasonable as the minority of bad owners who let their dogs run off. and while were in the subject, an off leash dog with an owner is a different kettle if fish to a free roaming dog on its own. noone thinks that's acceptable. using safety if as a reason for leashing all dogs is ridiculous too. if you really worry about it that much then you must lose a lot of sleep thinking about all the other things that could cause you harm in everyday life but are statisticly unprobable, like a jumbo jet landing on your house.

DBCyc

Shenshen wrote: »

You know that some dogs are a risk.

To compare that to traffic legislation, saying that responsible owners will know when their dog might pose a danger is a bit like saying responsible drivers know when they can drive as fast as they like, so we don't need speed limits on roads.

Yes, there certainly are people like that around, no doubt. But there also are lots and lots of others, who will think they know until they find out that they don't. And if they're lucky, nobody gets hurt when they do find out.

Hold on, that analogy makes no sense. A responsible driver wouldnt drive as fast as they like just like a responsible dog owner would not let their dog off the lead if it was not trained and trustworthy.

In keeping with the analogy on traffic legislation , the point of view of some posters here is similar to asking for legislation to ban all male drivers from our roads just because a minority of them drive dangerously.

Shenshen

adser53 wrote: »

this is getting old very fast. look, we as dog owners have a RIGHT to exercise our dogs off leash if they are under control. if your dog is a nuisance then you don't have that right. average joe public also has the right to walk about unmolested. the 2 are directly related. the problem here isn't well behaved dogs and responsible owners. its the people who are inconsiderate with badly behaved dogs that cause all the problems for dog owners and non dog owners alike. I can't walk my Akita off lead or without a muzzle because of an unfair law brought in the combat the behaviour of a slight minority of bad dogs and owners. to even suggest that ALL dogs be kept on a leash is silly and once again the good majority suffers. for all you posters that have phobias and such, I do sympathise with you but dogs are part of everyday life. in this case, you're the minority soto expect every dog owner to leash their dogs is just as unreasonable as the minority of bad owners who let their dogs run off. and while were in the subject, an off leash dog with an owner is a different kettle if fish to a free roaming dog on its own. noone thinks that's acceptable. using safety if as a reason for leashing all dogs is ridiculous too. if you really worry about it that much then you must lose a lot of sleep thinking about all the other things that could cause you harm in everyday life but are statisticly unprobable, like a jumbo jwt landing on your house.

See, the thing I don't get about this legislation is the following : People who can control their dog are allowed to let if run off the leash. Fine by me, I've got not the least bit of problem with that.

My problem comes in with the second bit : People who can't control their dog aren't allowed to let it off leash.
What happens if they do? Apart from people and other pets getting attacked, I mean? What legal consequences are there?
And : who decides who has their dog under control and who doesn't? Does this get decided retrospectively, once the dog proved to be dangerous? And what then? How do I, as unsuspecting public, know about this? How do you know if a dog that's running up to you is actually too dangerous to be let off the leash, but was let off anyway? And what do I do about it? How do I protect myself, children, other dogs?

DBCyc

tk123 wrote: »

These threads always confuse me.. Are we talking about dogs roaming the streets or eg dogs being off their leads in the park outside of the allowed times or are we talking about them being off their leads full stop regardless of off lead times in parks etc?!

PS sorry if that confused anyone!

I can't see how anyone can defend a dog thats left roaming without an owner in sight. That is not "under control" and it technically against the control of dogs act.

I am arguing that you are perfectly entitled to let your dog off the lead for a run in a park or similar place as long as it is under control.

Shenshen

DBCyc wrote: »

Hold on, that analogy makes no sense. A responsible driver wouldnt drive as fast as they like just like a responsible dog owner would not let their dog off the lead if it was not trained and trustworthy.

In keeping with the analogy on traffic legislation , the point of view of some posters here is similar to asking for legislation to ban all male drivers from our roads just because a minority of them drive dangerously.

True, they wouldn't. But without the speed limit, the irresponsible ones most certainly would. They do already, but as there's legislation in place, they can be punished for it, so there is a certain incentive NOT to do it.

Where's that with dog owners?

DBCyc

Shenshen wrote: »

True, they wouldn't. But without the speed limit, the irresponsible ones most certainly would. They do already, but as there's legislation in place, they can be punished for it, so there is a certain incentive NOT to do it.

Where's that with dog owners?

There is legislation in place for dog owners, you are required to have control over your dog at all times. If you see an owner letting a dog roam or not controlling it in public and its a nuisance, you can call the dog warden.

boodlesdoodles

As someone whose dog was attacked by an off-lead dog I would prefer if all dogs were on-lead. At the time the first question the dog warden asked me was my dog on-lead. He said that he takes strict meaning of "control" of dogs in that in all public areas they should be on lead, that said the individual was fined and asked to muzzle the dog in future as mine was the second dog it attacked. Unfortunately the dog is not an RB so owner can't be forced. They're still letting that dog off-lead and I'm still afraid when I walk my little fella.

seamus

Shenshen wrote: »

Where's that with dog owners?

The Control of Dogs Act states that all dogs in a public place must be under proper control. Any owner not adhering to this is liable to be fined.

adser53

Shenshen wrote: »

See, the thing I don't get about this legislation is the following : People who can control their dog are allowed to let if run off the leash. Fine by me, I've got not the least bit of problem with that.

My problem comes in with the second bit : People who can't control their dog aren't allowed to let it off leash.
What happens if they do? Apart from people and other pets getting attacked, I mean? What legal consequences are there?
And : who decides who has their dog under control and who doesn't? Does this get decided retrospectively, once the dog proved to be dangerous? And what then? How do I, as unsuspecting public, know about this? How do you know if a dog that's running up to you is actually too dangerous to be let off the leash, but was let off anyway? And what do I do about it? How do I protect myself, children, other dogs?

ok that's a fair point. honest answer is that this is enforced by the dog warden and possibly the gardaí who are never around when you need them. ifyou don't know dogs, and even when you do, it can be hard to judge a dog. in an ideal world, everyone would respect the law and not have nuisance dogs off leash. however we know that's not the case. in the same way as the restricted breed law, only the responsible people adhere to it but the bad owners ignore it. this is why everyone here feels so strongly about it because its not fair ti tar us with the same brush as some scanger with an aggressive dog off leash. I know its not much consolation but the low probability of a dog attack is really the only comfort you can get as the law isn't enforced enough on those that need it to be enforced on. yet everyday we here from responsible owners about wardens having a quiet word (what are you doing here, what type of dog is that etc) with them because they are the easy target rather than actually approaching a bad owner with a bad dog that will just ignore/disregard the warden

kalie

I just thought i'd share something that happened to me recently. I have a 9 month old boxer pup, she's a lovely dog and very well socialised and trained. The only time she's let of the lead is in parks because she's not that road wise.
We were walking through the park when a young Collie appeared from nowhere (the owners were miles away) at the same time a woman walked past with her dog on a leash, the collie went over to see her dog instead. She then starts shouting at me that my "bulldog" should me mussled and leashed. I explained that she was not a bulldog just to get a long line of abuse thrown at me. So i walk off with my dog beside me. The next thing ya know she's screaming her head off at me drawing lots of attention about my other dog attacking her... seems the collie had got a bit excited and was jumping around her (owners nowhere in sight). I had great fun telling her it wasn't my dog and pointed to the owners who were across the field... but in the end i did walk the collie back to them.

I get alot of abuse for walking my "dangerous" dog off the lead in a park where most people let the dogs run free. She knows she's aloud play with other dogs off lead and shes not aloud run up to dogs on leads unless the owners come over to her.