Why is it impossible for some dog owners to walk their dogs on a leash?

lrushe

sparkling sea wrote: »

I cant find figures for Ireland but I took this from irishdogs.ie
Police figures show attacks by dogs to be a growing problem, and in March last year the Department for Environment, launched a consultation on the issue.

In 2008/09, 5,221 people had to be admitted to hospital as a result of such attacks, an increase of almost 100 per cent since 2002/03. Almost a third were children or teenagers.

It is believed thousands more people are attacked and either do not go to A&E or go there and are treated without being admitted.

Where were the dogs when they 'attacked', at home, in the garden, out loose unsupervised or out walking with supervision?
Of the children 'attacked' was there an adult supervising them and the dog?
Were the dogs being mistreated, teased, beaten or starved when the 'attack'?

What you've posted above is far too vague to have hold much water where off leash exercising is concerned.

lrushe

sparkling sea wrote: »

Labradors, GSD's and other high energy dogs work as Guide Dogs and are constantly on a lash. Most of these dogs maintain an excellent standard of health without being left to run free in public places. They also develop brillant emotional intelligence.

I've seen Guide Dog pups exercised off leash at the beach, they are leashed while in inappropriate public place ie. shops, high traffic areas etc. as most responsible owners would do and nobody here would disagree with.

Discodog

sparkling sea wrote: »

Labradors, GSD's and other high energy dogs work as Guide Dogs and are constantly on a lash.

human rights will always supercede an animals right in a civilized society.

Guide dogs are not always on a lead & definitely not on the lash !.

How about my human right to exercise my dog, off lead, providing it does not interfere with anyone else ?.

The problem is not about being on a lead it's about being in control.

Bearcat

i was attacked in a public area minding my business by a dog not on a leash in the company of his owner. Just went for me....alsation type dog I think...........needed surgery. Ok now......dog obviously put down to the horror of its owner. Someone told me that they just use over powerful anesthetic to put a dog down. He didnt deserve to die peacefully......rant over.....mind yourself in the presence of unleashed dogs and above all keep kids clear....

sparkling sea

iguana wrote: »

Do you know many guide dogs. I know four and they are all given daily off leash time. Guide dogs generally aren't "on" 24 hours a day, they have time off too and they usually really let loose when they can.

I know 1 and it is never left out in public off its lead. I know that the person who owns it was told specifically not to allow it off its lead in public places - although it was purely because it can interfer or disturb the conditioning and training the dog has received, so I would have to wonder about the 4 you know!

My sister was a puppy walker ( the pup lived with her for about 15 months) and she had to be home all day with the pup. She couldn't leave it outside for ages acccept when it needed the loo. It had to wear not only a lead but a coat and harness after the first couple of months. It was a fantastic dog and she was very sad when it eventually had to leave, but it was a very well trained, happy dog

LisaO

sparkling sea wrote: »

I know 1 and it is never left out in public off its lead. I know that the person who owns it was told specifically not to allow it off its lead in public places - although it was purely because it can interfer or disturb the conditioning and training the dog has received, so I would have to wonder about the 4 you know!

My sister was a puppy walker ( the pup lived with her for about 15 months) and she had to be home all day with the pup. She couldn't leave it outside for ages acccept when it needed the loo. It had to wear not only a lead but a coat and harness after the first couple of months. It was a fantastic dog and she was very sad when it eventually had to leave, but it was a very well trained, happy dog

I think there may be a difference between guide dogs in training & fully fledged, "passed the test" guide dogs? When I lived in UK I often met a guide dog & his owner in our local park at lunchtimes. The guy used to sit & eat his lunch while the dog had a good chase around off-lead. The guy would put a bell on his collar before he let him off, so that he knew where the dog was & what he was up to

I can understand how being allowed off-lead in public places could be detrimental to the intensive training these dogs undergo though.

caseyann

Many local authorities have introduced bye-laws to indicate areas where dogs must be kept on a leash or even prohibited. Your local authority will be able to inform you of the bye-laws that apply in your area. Breaches of these bye-laws relating to dogs in your area can result in fines on summary conviction.

he Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 (S.I. No. 442 of 1998) impose additional rules in relation to the following breeds (and strains/cross-breeds) of dog in Ireland:

American Pit Bull Terrier
English Bull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Bull Mastiff
Dobermann Pinscher
German Shepherd (Alsatian)
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Rottweiler
Japanese Akita
Japanese Tosa
Bandog

The rules state that:

These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be kept on a short strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place
These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.

Those are some of the laws, your local authority can inform you of the lead laws in your area.
Beside us we had people with a pit bull and they were only minding it and let it wander the road with kids around no muzzle.:mad:

I really dont like the dogs off leads especially when they approach you aggressively,had it happen to me and the owner acted like it was not a big deal when both his dogs surrounded me and my dog.Quite intimidating and more or less set me back months with my dog.
If someone is walking a dog without a lead they should not assume that it is ok for their dog to approach other people with dogs.

Discodog

Bearcat wrote: »

He didnt deserve to die peacefully......

He didn't deserve to die at all. He did what his owner has taught him to do either by design or neglect. Whilst we keep killing the dogs we leave the owners to buy another dog & make the same mistakes.

I am assuming that you sued the owner for many thousands of euro.

iguana

LisaO wrote: »

I think there may be a difference between guide dogs in training & fully fledged, "passed the test" guide dogs? When I lived in UK I often met a guide dog & his owner in our local park at lunchtimes. The guy used to sit & eat his lunch while the dog had a good chase around off-lead. The guy would put a bell on his collar before he let him off, so that he knew where the dog was & what he was up to

Exactly, trained dogs know the difference between when they are working and when they are off. I've had a couple of the ones I know off in the park playing with my dogs and the pet dogs of the family of the person who's guide it is. It's essential that a dog doing that job gets the chance to cut loose, otherwise they can become very stressed. It also helps them come to terms with being retired (which is a very emotionally tough time for a guide dog) because they don't have to learn how to stop working.

DBCyc

caseyann wrote: »

Beside us we had people with a pit bull and they were only minding it and let it wander the road with kids around no muzzle.:mad:

Holy crap - how many of the children were eaten :rolleyes:

Whispered

caseyann wrote: »

If someone is walking a dog without a lead they should not assume that it is ok for their dog to approach other people with dogs.

Of course not. As far as I can read, every poster here has said that allowing your dog to annoy other people or dogs is not acceptable. Unfortunately there are owners out there who don't care and allow their dogs run riot.

caseyann

DBCyc wrote: »

Holy crap - how many of the children were eaten :rolleyes:

Its not the point,its against the law,they dont own that animal for a starers so they dont know the animal, even if they did the law states they are high risk.
I rang the gardaí and so did most of the neighbours.
We dont let our dogs roam the streets and neither should they.
So roll your eyes at yourself.;)

DBCyc

caseyann wrote: »

Its not the point,its against the law,they dont own that animal for a starers so they dont know the animal, even if they did the law states they are high risk.
I rang the gardaí and so did most of the neighbours.
We dont let our dogs roam the streets and neither should they.
So roll your eyes at yourself.;)

Look at my earlier posts, I don't agree with dogs roaming the streets.

This thread is about people's opinions regarding dogs on/off the lead and the associated etiquette of walking your dog without bothering people whether its on or off the lead etc. It also covered dogs who were left to roam the streets by their owners and the vast majority of posters do not agree with this,

I don't know why you had to start on about the restricted breeds list - the majority of people on here are also aware of this list. Then you start posting about a pit bull being loose amongst children. This is just a pointless, hysterical statement that contributes nothing to this debate.

Son Of A Vidic

[QUOTE=Bearcat;67803072 Someone told me that they just use over powerful anesthetic to put a dog down. He didnt deserve to die peacefully......rant over.....mind yourself in the presence of unleashed dogs and above all keep kids clear....[/QUOTE]

That's a bit harsh, I'd always blame the owner - NO dog should be unleashed in a public area. The dog didn't ask to be unleashed, it was the owners decision to do so. You suffered as a result, unfortunately people always tend to blame the dog in this situation. The owner really should be asking themselves, how well trained was their dog? and how well did they know their dog? Hopefully the owner will learn from what happened to you and have a properply controlled/trained dog in future.

Whispered

caseyann wrote: »

...... the law states they are high risk.
.

Here is my problem, any unknown dog could be high risk and any other breed is as likely to be high risk but people would use less cre around cuter breeds like a lab etc.

caseyann wrote: »

We dont let our dogs roam the streets and neither should they.

agreed, regardless of breed, dogs should not be allowed roam the street. Although, unless the dog was returned to its owner, it has likely been pts being a RB and all. Which is a pity if he was doing no harm. It was the owners fault the dog was out and once again, the dog would have suffered for it.

Redneck Reject

I just acquired a 15 month old Lab who was never socialized with other dogs or people for that matter.She never comes off the lead,naturally because she has a bit of fear aggression we are working through.I walk her around close to my house,and each day go out a little bit further to introduce her to the sights and sounds of everyday life in a city.
In a city environment I do think dog owners should always have their dogs on leads for safety reasons of both people and the dogs.Even the best trained dog is not a 100% controlled dog,anyone tries to tell me different doesn't know their dog.Now I've read a few posts on here people stating they have the right to walk their dogs off leads,who bestowed that right to you at the expensive and safety of others?
As a responsible dog owner,it's your responsibility to ensure the safety and control of the dog.There are far more scenarios and reasons to keep a dog on a lead,than there are letting them off.

Graces7

We have relocated and were at a farmers market at the weekend; man there with a doberman puppy... Soft as they come and he was walking it around all day. When we asked; do they not have to be muzzled? "What for? What could a puppy do?"

As we said, take care if there are dog wardens about. The law may be an ass, but it has teeth

andreac

Graces7 wrote: »

We have relocated and were at a farmers market at the weekend; man there with a doberman puppy... Soft as they come and he was walking it around all day. When we asked; do they not have to be muzzled? "What for? What could a puppy do?"

As we said, take care if there are dog wardens about. The law may be an ass, but it has teeth

How old was this puppy? Do you honestly expect a young pup to be muzzled at a young age?

Graces7

andreac wrote: »

How old was this puppy? Do you honestly expect a young pup to be muzzled at a young age?

It would be lovely if you would stop jumping on me like this when you have misread my post, andreac! It really would be nice . This is not the first time

Please read what I wrote?

Not what you think I wrote. :rolleyes:

Thank you.

In this case I simply asked as I was curious.

Shane Fitz

andreac wrote: »

How old was this puppy? Do you honestly expect a young pup to be muzzled at a young age?

Am i right in thinking that a pup doesn't have to be muzzled untill they are 6mnths old, regardless if RB or not?

Whispered

In fairness, I would consider a curious question "do they have to be muzzled"

- you asked - "do they not have to be muzzled"

- the not making it a rethorical question. If you asked me that question, I would assume you were telling me that they should be muzzled in a more passive agressive way than saying "your dog should be muzzled". I would consider someone using phrasing like that to be trying to make a point. There is a definate accusation in the phrase.

Perhaps a difference in phraseology. Although, assuming you knew the dog should have been muzzled, then maybe you were actually asking rethorically? Hard one to call with you.

In fact when I read your post I thought it very rude to tell someone to muzzle their dog. Obviously that's not what you had written, but it's how I initially read it and possibly how the dog owner heard it.

lrushe

Shane Fitz wrote: »

Am i right in thinking that a pup doesn't have to be muzzled untill they are 6mnths old, regardless if RB or not?

Unfortunately not, an RB dog has to be muzzled according to the law from day one

andreac

Graces7 wrote: »

It would be lovely if you would stop jumping on me like this when you have misread my post, andreac! It really would be nice . This is not the first time

Please read what I wrote?

Not what you think I wrote. :rolleyes:

Thank you.

In this case I simply asked as I was curious.

You asked the owner if his puppy should be muzzled? Yes its a RB, but you knew yourself it was a puppy, just wondering why you would question someone about putting a muzzle on a puppy, thats all.

lrushe

Redneck Reject wrote: »

I just acquired a 15 month old Lab who was never socialized with other dogs or people for that matter.She never comes off the lead,naturally because she has a bit of fear aggression we are working through.I walk her around close to my house,and each day go out a little bit further to introduce her to the sights and sounds of everyday life in a city.
In a city environment I do think dog owners should always have their dogs on leads for safety reasons of both people and the dogs.Even the best trained dog is not a 100% controlled dog,anyone tries to tell me different doesn't know their dog.Now I've read a few posts on here people stating they have the right to walk their dogs off leads,who bestowed that right to you at the expensive and safety of others?
As a responsible dog owner,it's your responsibility to ensure the safety and control of the dog.There are far more scenarios and reasons to keep a dog on a lead,than there are letting them off.

Firstly nobody is advocating letting an unsocialised dog such as yours off leash we are talking about dogs which have been properly trained and socialised.
Secondly if what you mean by 'city environment' is the likes of streets, estates, high traffic areas, shops etc. again I think most people here would also agree with you, it would be irresponsible to have dogs off leash here. Where I would let my dog off leash is in open fields, parks / beaches where off leash dogs are allowed, lakes, mountain walkways etc.
As to who bestowed the right to dog owners to walk their dogs off leash, well the Irish government of course (once the dog is under control), if we didn't have that right it would be illegal.
You may think that there are more reasons for having a dog on leash but once you have the joy of a well trained, well mannered & trustworthy dog those reasons become moot.

seamus

lrushe wrote: »

Secondly if what you mean by 'city environment' is the likes of streets, estates, high traffic areas, shops etc. again I think most people here would also agree with you, it would be irresponsible to have dogs off leash here.

You wouldn't believe the amount of people in the city centre who have their dogs off the lead while walking. Aungier street is particularly bad, I've encountered a number of people crossing the road between the moving traffic, with the dog following them closely off-lead behind. Unbelieveable stuff.

iguana

seamus wrote: »

You wouldn't believe the amount of people in the city centre who have their dogs off the lead while walking. Aungier street is particularly bad, I've encountered a number of people crossing the road between the moving traffic, with the dog following them closely off-lead behind. Unbelieveable stuff.

And some dogs are unbelievably trained and never need a lead. My parent's border collie hasn't been on a lead since a few weeks after they got him. They don't work or show him but he's trained to that standard. He walks exactly to heel, no more than a few inches from your foot unless you tell him he can run with a hand signal. He's usually walked along the Shannon river and there are some roads/busy paths by the university campus, when he comes toward those he lies down and waits until you reach him, then follows at heel once you give him the signal.

Dogs are meant to be under control in that type of place, not on a lead. Rosco is under better control off-lead than an awful lot of dogs on-lead. I'd have no qualms about his behaviour if he was walked through any busy city off or on-lead and only wouldn't do it because he'd hate it. I saw a number of people in London walk their dogs in central areas off-lead and the dogs were well behaved and caused no problems. They would go in and out of shops/bars/restaurants and it wasn't a problem as the dogs were well trained and used to it.

Graces7

andreac wrote: »

You asked the owner if his puppy should be muzzled? Yes its a RB, but you knew yourself it was a puppy, just wondering why you would question someone about putting a muzzle on a puppy, thats all.

:rolleyes:

I asked as I did not know; so I could learn.

Is that OK with you?

As i did so I was petting the wee dog, as were many others. I wondered at what age a RB dog was to wear a muzzle in law.. would hate to see that wee one impounded or worse.

The man took no offence and neither should anyone else.. and as someone here has no said, yes , it is from day one.

which makes sense; to get the dog used to a muzzle in public as it will have to wear one all its life long. Less stress if that is from the start.

The man appreciated the quiet advice to take care re dog wardens; he was at the market all day, getting the dog used to people wonderfully.. but al it would have taken was one phone call from one person. You and I know that.

And ignorance of the law is no defence in cases like this.. The man knew the stock response to him namig the breed of the dog, and we laughed about it together.

There are a couple of posters here who respond so aggressively to some topics that it makes reasonable discussion and learning very difficult.

Most of us here, myself incuded, love dogs, but that does not mean that we are going to agree with everything others say.

Maybe count to ten and wait for other responses before replying?

Thank you!

Whispered

Graces7 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You're very fond of the sarcastic roll eyes smilie aren't you. You complain about other people making it difficult to have a conversation and yet most of your posts are passive agressive, rude, sarcastic and you are avoiding answering questions you don't have a proper answer to. (ie you were asked twice how you exercise your collie and you told me I was asking in the wrong place, and just didn't acknowledge the second time someone asked)

Telling someone to "count to ten" before replying is very unnecessarily rude and you are the only poster here in this thread who feels it necessary to respond like this. Even other people who are agreeing with you, are not responding like that. I hope you realise that even if you did have a good point, most people will not see beyond the sarcasm.

doctor evil

lrushe wrote: »

open fields, parks / beaches where off leash dogs are allowed, lakes, mountain walkways etc.

Pretty sure dogs have to stay on the lead at the beach, in my local park there are bylaws stating dogs must be kept on a lead. On the coillte website there is a mention of sheep in fields beside forestry land. Who owns these fields you walk in? The farmer who may be moving stock into it. All the trouble with dogs that I have had as a horserider have been those who are not on the lead. If a dog sees an animal it may like to chase training can go out the window if the dog has not been properly socialised to the animal it wants to get at.

Discodog

Most people are not even aware of the RB legislation. It would be very unusual for someone to report & even more unusual for the warden to react in my neck of the woods.

There is no way that I would put a muzzle on a Dobie. I would far rather go to Court & then run a series of appeals to show how ludicrous the law is. I was chatting to a nice couple with a pair of un-muzzled GSD's. We were chatting about the stupidity of the RB legislation & they said that they kept muzzles just in case but had in 3 years had never had to fit them.

We need people to respect dogs & not fear them.