Do men really need relationships?

Eve_Dublin

Leaving marriage and kids aside for a sec...do WOMEN need relationships anymore than men do? Surely some PEOPLE, regardless of gender are better off single? Women are susceptible to peer pressure to settle down and give into that...I know how it is and that was another reason why I left Ireland to live in Spain. One of the last things my father said to me before I emigrated was, "Why can't you meet a nice Irish man, get married and stay here?". I had to laugh at him for being such a cliche and he gave in and laughed as well. I don't think men get that type of crap. I think just as many women enjoy the single life as men and can feel just as bogged down by married life and kids but the problems arise from pressure from other women, particularly in your 30s. It's a nightmare. I'm glad I'm away from all that. Even now that I'm going out with a guy I've no intention of marrying (we're very independent of each other...I've no desire to be a couple in the traditional sense of the word), I'm getting the questions and jokes from friends and family about kids and marriage. I'm at home now for the next week and already I'm getting it. I know if I was a man I wouldn't get this ****e. It's definitely a test in patience.

Eve_Dublin

metrovelvet wrote: »

Don't you know women are not to be trusted? They are conniving manipulative creatures who are capable of anything?

Blame the other when you want to avoid responsibility. Oldest and most transparent trick in the book.

This is definitely the impression I'm getting from this thread. These men can't be for real. What kind of nut jobs do they hang out with at all at all? I don't know any women who would this. Seriously!

Malari

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Leaving marriage and kids aside for a sec...do WOMEN need relationships anymore than men do? Surely some PEOPLE, regardless of gender are better off single? Women are susceptible to peer pressure to settle down and give into that...I know how it is and that was another reason why I left Ireland to live in Spain. One of the last things my father said to me before I emigrated was, "Why can't you meet a nice Irish man, get married and stay here?". I had to laugh at him for being such a cliche and he gave in and laughed as well. I don't think men get that type of crap. I think just as many women enjoy the single life as men and can feel just as bogged down by married life and kids but the problems arise from pressure from other women, particularly in your 30s. It's a nightmare. I'm glad I'm away from all that. Even now that I'm going out with a guy I've no intention of marrying (we're very independent of each other...I've no desire to be a couple in the traditional sense of the word), I'm getting the questions and jokes from friends and family about kids and marriage. I'm at home now for the next week and already I'm getting it. I know if I was a man I wouldn't get this ****e. It's definitely a test in patience.

I don't know about that. It depends on your family and friends really. I never get hassle from my folks, but my boyfriend gets it ALL THE TIME from his married-with-kids friends and his parents, who are constantly on his back to get married and buy a house.

opinion guy

metrovelvet wrote: »

Meh. They have marginally more rights. A cohabitating father with guardianship will have the same paternal rights as a married man.

People make a big stink about this, but ultimately married men are in the same boat.

Oh dear God. Maybe in the States - but not here. Really you ahve no idea how wrong you are here

Eve_Dublin

Malari wrote: »

I don't know about that. It depends on your family and friends really. I never get hassle from my folks, but my boyfriend gets it ALL THE TIME from his married-with-kids friends and his parents, who are constantly on his back to get married and buy a house.

I'm talking personally. My brothers never got this in the past. They might have got it in a jokey way but my family would say it to me more out of concern and there'd definitely be an unspoken pressure among friends.

metrovelvet

opinion guy wrote: »

Oh dear God. Maybe in the States - but not here. Really you ahve no idea how wrong you are here

Can you tell me how? Genuine question, not trying to argue. Outside of the fact that in very specific and rare circumstances it can be revoked, how does a cohabitating father with guardianship have less rights than a married one?

Eve_Dublin

Malari wrote: »

I don't know about that. It depends on your family and friends really. I never get hassle from my folks, but my boyfriend gets it ALL THE TIME from his married-with-kids friends and his parents, who are constantly on his back to get married and buy a house.

And I'm also talking about relationships here...your boyfriend is obviously not single. There's more acceptance in society for a man to remain single than a woman.

opinion guy

metrovelvet wrote: »

Can you tell me how? Genuine question, not trying to argue. Outside of the fact that in very specific and rare circumstances it can be revoked, how does a cohabitating father with guardianship have less rights than a married one?

Eh I'm not the best to explain it actually. But I do have one friend whose brother has been faced with this situation and I do know the law is very biased and his brother has almost no rights. I think Corinthian may be able to explain better than I

The Corinthian

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

No....that they probably should have worn a condom as well as using The Pill to be sure.

And if we are told that they prefer without? Or that it's not a problem on a specific day? Or there is a pinhole in the condom?

What you are essentially suggesting is not to trust your partner.

Nothing is 100% guaranteed.

Rights are; if you have them, that is.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Don't you know women are not to be trusted? They are conniving manipulative creatures who are capable of anything?

Only some.

opinion guy wrote: »

Eh I'm not the best to explain it actually. But I do have one friend whose brother has been faced with this situation and I do know the law is very biased and his brother has almost no rights. I think Corinthian may be able to explain better than I

I never meant to suggest that it was vastly within a man's interests to marry if cohabitating long term, only that there is a slight advantage to do so and no downside any more - mainly because the principle advantage of cohabitation was removed through the cohabitation bill.

As such, a man who's cohabitating with someone for five years is as well to get married now if there are any children in the mix.

It should be noted that married couples have favourable income tax schedules also.

As an addendum; loss of guardianship is a real issue and the circumstances under which it may be lost are neither very specific nor that rare. All that is required is for a judge to be convinced that it is in "the child's best interest" and that can be easy to do, depending upon the judge or the dirty tricks you are willing to pull, according to some of the horror stories out there.

metrovelvet

That is a vague and unsatisfactory explanation based on some "horror stories out there." That is no more than hearsay, gossip and urban myth.

Someone please back up the claim that a married man has more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers with guardianship with something more than a legal equivalent of the lochness monster.

Eve_Dublin

The Corinthian wrote: »

And if we are told that they prefer without? Or that it's not a problem on a specific day? Or there is a pinhole in the condom?

What you are essentially suggesting is not to trust your partner.

Your essentially saying the same thing.

metrovelvet

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Your essentially saying the same thing.

You cant trust your partner. The Aids revolution told us that.

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

That is a vague and unsatisfactory explanation based on some "horror stories out there." That is no more than hearsay, gossip and urban myth.

Someone please back up the claim that a married man has more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers with guardianship with something more than a legal equivalent of the lochness monster.

Married men get guardianship automatically and cannot lose it. Fact.

Unmarried men do not get guardianship automatically and can lose it. Fact.

You believe that it is very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

I believe that it is not very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

Based upon the facts alone married men have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. Even if we were to accept your opinion married men still have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. QED.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Your essentially saying the same thing.

Then regrettably we are in agreement.

Eve_Dublin

The Corinthian wrote: »

After a certain age, they can't back out. Until then, they can, have an 'accident' and then suggest that if we (men) didn't want to have a kid, we should have been sterilized.

The Corinthian wrote: »

And if we are told that they prefer without? Or that it's not a problem on a specific day? Or there is a pinhole in the condom?

What you are essentially suggesting is not to trust your partner.

I was responding to your quote above. You put accident in exclaimation marks suggesting it wasn't an accident at all. Women who do this type of thing are not sane in my book. Nothing is guaranteed. Regardless of whether a man trusts his girlfriend/wife to take The Pill, it's not guaranteed. Trust doesn't come into it. Men should be aware of this and double up on contraception. Some of the responsibility falls on his shoulders too.

In fairness, if a woman insists that you can do without and you want to be 100% sure she doesn't fall pregnant, you should refuse to have sex with her unless you can wear a condom as well. Plenty of men are happy to hear this excuse but men should be clued up to know that The Pill is not 100%. Nothing to do with trust. A pin prick in a condom??? Are you serious???? On purpose or a factory defect?? If you open a condom there and then, the chances of this being the case are very, very slim. What woman comes out of the bathroom holding an unrwapped condom with the line, "Here's one I prepared earlier!". Perhaps in that case alarm bells would go off. EVERY time I've had sex, we've unwrapped a condom there and then and put it on immediately.

Eve_Dublin

The Corinthian wrote: »

Then regrettably we are in agreement.

Nope, I think we have our wires crossed. A woman should not take the sole responsibility of contraception. If you believe then you need to grow up.

The Corinthian

The Corinthian wrote: »

And if we are told that they prefer without? Or that it's not a problem on a specific day? Or there is a pinhole in the condom?

To be honest, and this is personal experience only, the only objections I've heard "preferring without" are on the male side. Female friends have heard "you're on the pill why can't we stop using a condom". I haven't thankfully. It makes sense in a way because they're the ones who have to wear them
A lot of people seem to think (here on boards and IRL) if you're in a relationship only the pill is necessary and are surprised or think it's overkill to use anything else as well. Even the nurse at the WWC was giving me a second glance when I mentioned it
I also think that a number of men think a pill is 100% and any failure has to be deliberate...

What you are essentially suggesting is not to trust your partner.

Slightly out of context I know, but I think the key here is not to just trust one method.

metrovelvet

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I was responding to your quote above. You put accident in exclaimation marks suggesting it wasn't an accident at all. Women who do this type of thing are not sane in my book. Nothing is guaranteed. Regardless of whether a man trusts his girlfriend/wife to take The Pill, it's not guaranteed. Trust doesn't come into it. Men should be aware of this and double up on contraception. Some of the responsibility falls on his shoulders too.

In fairness, if a woman insists that you can do without and you want to be 100% sure she doesn't fall pregnant, you should refuse to have sex with her unless you can wear a condom as well. Plenty of men are happy to hear this excuse but men should be clued up to know that The Pill is not 100%. Nothing to do with trust. A pin prick in a condom??? Are you serious???? On purpose or a factory defect?? If you open a condom there and then, the chances of this being the case are very, very slim. What woman comes out of the bathroom holding an unrwapped condom with the line, "Here's one I prepared earlier!". Perhaps in that case alarm bells would go off. EVERY time I've had sex, we've unwrapped a condom there and then and put it on immediately.

I would really like to know how you poke holes in a condom surrepitiously. What do you do? Say oh excuse me I have to blow my nose sneak off to the bathroom with the condom and hope to find a needle in there and them come back with the condom?

We are in the realms of paranoid fantasy.

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote: »

I would really like to know how you poke holes in a condom surrepitiously. What do you do? Say oh excuse me I have to blow my nose sneak off to the bathroom with the condom and hope to find a needle in there and them come back with the condom?

We are in the realms of paranoid fantasy.

Reminds me of a desperate housewives ep I saw ages back - carlos was replacing whatshername's pills with sugarpills since she didn't want kids...

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

Married men get guardianship automatically and cannot lose it. Fact.

Unmarried men do not get guardianship automatically and can lose it. Fact.

You believe that it is very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

I believe that it is not very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

Based upon the facts alone married men have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. Even if we were to accept your opinion married men still have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. QED.

Then regrettably we are in agreement.

Em.

I did not say unmarried cohabitating father.

I specifically qualified it by cohabitating father with guardianship. How does one of those have less rights than a married man?

Eve_Dublin

bluewolf wrote: »

To be honest, and this is personal experience only, the only objections I've heard "preferring without" are on the male side. Female friends have heard "you're on the pill why can't we stop using a condom". I haven't thankfully. It makes sense in a way because they're the ones who have to wear them
A lot of people seem to think (here on boards and IRL) if you're in a relationship only the pill is necessary and are surprised or think it's overkill to use anything else as well. Even the nurse at the WWC was giving me a second glance when I mentioned it
I also think that a number of men think a pill is 100% and any failure has to be deliberate...

How many times have I heard men say, "But you're on The Pill aren't you?" when I've wanted to use both. It seems a lot of men are pretty clueless when it comes to contraception, when a woman is at her most fertile etc. "We don't need a condom if you're having your period"...I've heard this from grown men. As women we (should) educate ourselves on all of this from the moment were sexually active because if we fall pregnant, the responsibility mainly lies on our shoulders.

Maguined

metrovelvet wrote: »

I would really like to know how you poke holes in a condom surrepitiously. What do you do? Say oh excuse me I have to blow my nose sneak off to the bathroom with the condom and hope to find a needle in there and them come back with the condom?

We are in the realms of paranoid fantasy.

Not if they are in a relationship, it would be very easy if in a long term relationship as generally I would assume the couple would have bought a box of condoms, it would be in the bedroom where both parties would know its location so it would be very easy when the boyfriend is not in the room to pin the entire box.

I'm not saying its common, but it has happened to one friend of mine and was the end of their relationship.

metrovelvet

Maguined wrote: »

Not if they are in a relationship, it would be very easy if in a long term relationship as generally I would assume the couple would have bought a box of condoms, it would be in the bedroom where both parties would know its location so it would be very easy when the boyfriend is not in the room to pin the entire box.

I'm not saying its common, but it has happened to one friend of mine and was the end of their relationship.

I think you mean when the boyfriend or the girlfriend is not in the room.

Did your friend actually get pregnant by this means?

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

Married men get guardianship automatically and cannot lose it. Fact.

Unmarried men do not get guardianship automatically and can lose it. Fact.

You believe that it is very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

I believe that it is not very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

Based upon the facts alone married men have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. Even if we were to accept your opinion married men still have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. QED.

Then regrettably we are in agreement.

I asked on the legal forum. FYI.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056001144

Maguined

bluewolf wrote: »

To be honest, and this is personal experience only, the only objections I've heard "preferring without" are on the male side. Female friends have heard "you're on the pill why can't we stop using a condom". I haven't thankfully. It makes sense in a way because they're the ones who have to wear them

From my personal experience exactly 50% of the women I have slept with have wanted to not use a condom because it felt better for them.

Maguined

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think you mean when the boyfriend or the girlfriend is not in the room.

Did your friend actually get pregnant by this means?

Yeah that's what I said, when they are not in the room.

No he noticed on the third condom that it had a hole in the outer wrapping, he got freaked and checked the next, and the next and then confronted her and she admitted it. She basically said even though they had been together a very long time and he had told her he had no desire for children now or later that apart from this they were perfect for each other and she knew he was such a good guy he would stay by her if she "accidentally" got pregnant and thought he would make a great dad.

Obviously this was outrageous behaviour and such an abuse of trust ended the relationship immediately. He still to this freaks out that he had gone through the first two condoms without noticing the pinhole in the packaging and how different his life would be if in those two times his girlfriend became pregnant.

The Corinthian

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Women who do this type of thing are not sane in my book.

I don't think there are that many who actively seek to become pregnant, but I do believe that quite a few passively do so. The difference is that the latter would never admit, even to themselves, that they sought to do so, but nonetheless they 'forget' what day they had their period on or to take the pill or generally take risks that they shouldn't take.

I do agree that men should be more aware of the pitfalls of contraception, but unfortunately this is because if an accident happens, they have no options nor rights.

Nothing is guaranteed.

And again - rights are, if you have them.

metrovelvet wrote: »

I did not say unmarried cohabitating father.

I specifically qualified it by cohabitating father with guardianship. How does one of those have less rights than a married man?

Married father with guardianship cannot lose it. Fact.

Unmarried cohabitating father with guardianship men can lose it. Fact.

You believe that it is very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

I believe that it is not very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

Based upon the facts alone married men have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. Even if we were to accept your opinion married men still have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. QED.

metrovelvet wrote: »

I asked on the legal forum. FYI.

Try looking it up next time:

Fathers who have been appointed joint guardians by a court or by statutory declaration can be removed from their position if the court is satisfied it is in the child's best interest. The only way a mother can give up her guardianship rights in Ireland, is if the child is placed for adoption.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/unmarried-couples/legal_guardianship_and_unmarried_couples

metrovelvet

Maguined wrote: »

Yeah that's what I said, when they are not in the room.

No he noticed on the third condom that it had a hole in the outer wrapping, he got freaked and checked the next, and the next and then confronted her and she admitted it. She basically said even though they had been together a very long time and he had told her he had no desire for children now or later that apart from this they were perfect for each other and she knew he was such a good guy he would stay by her if she "accidentally" got pregnant and thought he would make a great dad.

Obviously this was outrageous behaviour and such an abuse of trust ended the relationship immediately. He still to this freaks out that he had gone through the first two condoms without noticing the pinhole in the packaging and how different his life would be if in those two times his girlfriend became pregnant.

According to this you have to do a lot of poking.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_get_pregnant_with_a_pin_hole_in_the_condom

Claims of infertility is a big one too. Although its not really deception if they believe it themselves.

I've heard of that kind of thing happening too where the person believed them and did get pregnant or in another case was ushered into fatherhood.

Eitherway, it's pretty wrong. I dont know how you'd ever trust again after that.

The Corinthian

The Corinthian wrote: »

I don't think there are that many who actively seek to become pregnant, but I do believe that quite a few passively do so. The difference is that the latter would never admit, even to themselves, that they sought to do so, but nonetheless they 'forget' what day they had their period on or to take the pill or generally take risks that they shouldn't take.

Do you really think anyone who forgets these things wants to be pregnant?

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

I don't think there are that many who actively seek to become pregnant, but I do believe that quite a few passively do so. The difference is that the latter would never admit, even to themselves, that they sought to do so, but nonetheless they 'forget' what day they had their period on or to take the pill or generally take risks that they shouldn't take.

I do agree that men should be more aware of the pitfalls of contraception, but unfortunately this is because if an accident happens, they have no options nor rights.

And again - rights are, if you have them.

Married father with guardianship cannot lose it. Fact.

Unmarried cohabitating father with guardianship men can lose it. Fact.

You believe that it is very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

I believe that it is not very difficult for an unmarried man to lose guardianship. Opinion.

Based upon the facts alone married men have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. Even if we were to accept your opinion married men still have more paternal rights than cohabitating fathers. QED.

Try looking it up next time:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/unmarried-couples/legal_guardianship_and_unmarried_couples

Nit picking and pedantic. You'd be thrown out of court for argumentativeness.

Eve_Dublin

Maguined wrote: »

From my personal experience exactly 50% of the women I have slept with have wanted to not use a condom because it felt better for them.

From my experience I'd say 100% of men would have preferred not to have used a condom because it felt better for them. Only a handful insisted. That was always left down to me.

Perhaps they wanted to get me pregnant ??

Edit: By the way, I'm not insisting that women know that The Pill is not 100% or that every woman is careful...I don't think it's down to fact that they'd like to get pregnant, it's more that they've become complacent because "so far so good".

metrovelvet

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

From my experience I'd say 100% of men would have preferred not to have used a condom because it felt better for them. None of them insisted. That was always left down to me.

Perhaps they wanted to get me pregnant ??

Yes. It's all a sinister plot to keep you barefoot in the kitchen.

The Corinthian

bluewolf wrote: »

Do you really think anyone who forgets these things wants to be pregnant?

Sorry, I should have put 'forget' in inverted commas.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Nit picking and pedantic. You'd be thrown out of court for argumentativeness.

We're not in court. And don't confuse accuracy with nit picking.

If it makes you feel any better, you were almost right this time.

Maguined

metrovelvet wrote: »

According to this you have to do a lot of poking.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_get_pregnant_with_a_pin_hole_in_the_condom

Claims of infertility is a big one too.

I've heard of that kind of thing happening too where the person believed them and did get pregnant or in another case was ushered into fatherhood.

Eitherway, it's pretty wrong. I dont know how you'd ever trust again after that.

No offence but Wikianswers is not what I would consider a significantly reliable source of information nor does it excuse the act, poking a single whole is increasing the chances of conception no matter how significant and to do so in deception to your partner is despicable.

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

Sorry, I should have put 'forget' in inverted commas.

We're not in court. And don't confuse accuracy with nit picking.

If it makes you feel any better, you were almost right this time.

I am right.

You haven't provided one case where guardianship was revoked. Not ONE.

Jelly2

I have yet to come across a relationship that has lasted longer than ten years and both are still young enough to have children, that did not inevitably end in at least children and sometimes also marriage.[/QUOTE]

Well, they exist. My sister-in-law and her husband are one such. So are we.

Wibbs

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

And I'm also talking about relationships here...your boyfriend is obviously not single. There's more acceptance in society for a man to remain single than a woman.

I would agree 100%. Men do get it sometimes but not nearly so much and usually from women funny enough. Women get it all the time by comparison. Even other women seem to think a single woman is a loose cannon on deck. The whole single/relationship thing is far more a "woman thing". Along with the level of comments.

bluewolf wrote: »

To be honest, and this is personal experience only, the only objections I've heard "preferring without" are on the male side.

Well yea for the simple reason of the loss of pleasure. Men seem to vary on this though. Some end up feeling sweet FA using them(I would be one of those) while others dont notice so much. If a contraceptive method for women involved covering the clitoris with half a mm of latex I suspect they're not be far behind wanting other methods.

A lot of people seem to think (here on boards and IRL) if you're in a relationship only the pill is necessary and are surprised or think it's overkill to use anything else as well. Even the nurse at the WWC was giving me a second glance when I mentioned it
I also think that a number of men think a pill is 100% and any failure has to be deliberate...

Oh I agree. Plus because its a tablet, the difference between perfect use and real world use can be quite big. I recall reading an article about people missing doses of medication or not finishing medications for things like TB. Apparently both sexes can be equally bad or good at remembering(but men are more likely to stop when the start to feel better). Women are more likely to think they've taken a medication when they haven't. In the case of the contraceptive pill that's when pregnancies can happen. I've noted just in my own life(and v small sample) no women I've known have had a scare or unwanted pregnancy with the injection/implant. I'd be willing to bet that in the case of pill "failures", more of the time its down to a missed pill, an upset stomach, or drug interaction that renders it ineffective. the aforementioned antibiotics a case in point. They can reduce the absorption of the pill. Few enough women know this, never mind men. Indeed a mate of mine had an infection that required antibiotics and her doctor never even asked her was she in the pill. I mentioned jokingly in passing, "oh that's nookie off the schedule for the moment or he has to get a pack of johhnies". She had no clue and was shocked. A phonecall to her doctor confirmed this, but it was remiss of him not to take it into account.

The Corinthian

The Corinthian wrote: »

Sorry, I should have put 'forget' in inverted commas.

I know you did, I just wanted to clarify especially as you said it wasn't entirely conscious.

Wibbs wrote: »

Well yea for the simple reason of the loss of pleasure.

That's why I said "it makes sense as they have to wear them"

They can reduce the absorption of the pill. Few enough women know this, never mind men. Indeed a mate of mine had an infection that required antibiotics and her doctor never even asked her was she in the pill. I mentioned jokingly in passing, "oh that's nookie off the schedule for the moment or he has to get a pack of johhnies". She had no clue and was shocked. A phonecall to her doctor confirmed this, but it was remiss of him not to take it into account.

I know, the general education is bad enough and I'm sure there were things I should've known about my own one.

At least with a barrier method you've a fair idea of something going wrong, with the pill on its own it's a bit "wait and see for a month or so"

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

You haven't provided one case where guardianship was revoked. Not ONE.

How would an example change the facts of how these legal rights are codified?

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

How would an example change the facts of how these legal rights are codified?

In Massachusettes sodomy and oral sex are still on the books as illegal.

The law books are full of theory that are never practised.

Example? Or more of the Lochness Monster.

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

In Massachusettes sodomy and oral sex are still on the books as illegal.

Then people do not have a right to practice either sodomy and oral sex in Massachusetts, regardless of whether that prohibition is exercised or not.

You asked a question about difference in rights and you got your answer.

opinion guy

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

"We don't need a condom if you're having your period"...I've heard this from grown men.

And I've heard this from women. Educated women. Now what do you think was there risk assessment here ? Either they are as ignorant of the facts as you say men are or they just don't mind too much if they do end up pregnant.

bluewolf wrote: »

Do you really think anyone who forgets these things wants to be pregnant?

Do you really think they don't ?

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

From my experience I'd say 100% of men would have preferred not to have used a condom because it felt better for them. Only a handful insisted. That was always left down to me.

Perhaps they wanted to get me pregnant ??

Edit: By the way, I'm not insisting that women know that The Pill is not 100% or that every woman is careful...I don't think it's down to fact that they'd like to get pregnant, it's more that they've become complacent because "so far so good".

I always insist. Many women ask not to use one because it feels better. Even on one night stands.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Do you really think they don't ?

Genuine forgetfulness, absolutely. Either on pill-taking or period dates. If you're supposed to take it first thing in the morning and one morning you wake up and rush out the door in a daze, there it goes. Or you come in late from work, etc etc etc. It's easy to forget, even if you're paranoid about it.

As for dates, don't get me started !

MagicMarker

I've also had women say not to use a condom. In fact I've had 2 say ''I don't think I can have kids anyway''...

Personally, I'd prefer not to use one, but I'm not stupid enough to do it casually.

opinion guy

bluewolf wrote: »

Genuine forgetfulness, absolutely. Either on pill-taking or period dates. If you're supposed to take it first thing in the morning and one morning you wake up and rush out the door in a daze, there it goes. Or you come in late from work, etc etc etc. It's easy to forget, even if you're paranoid about it.

As for dates, don't get me started !

Yeah i know the whole dates, rhythm method etc etc is a pet hate of mine. And the level of ignornace out there by both sexes is simply staggerring.

Eve_Dublin

opinion guy wrote: »

And I've heard this from women. Educated women. Now what do you think was there risk assessment here ? Either they are as ignorant of the facts as you say men are or they just don't mind too much if they do end up pregnant.

As I said, I think it's more of a case of complacency. The idea that it hasn't happened yet so it probably won't happen. People presume these thing happen to other people. It's a bit like smokers and cancer...they're in denial and believe it won't happen to them. I'll be honest, I haven't always been totally sensible myself and didn't double up when I was on The Pill while in a relationship, particularly in my early twenties and have had to take the morning after pill on a few occasions. That's ALWAYS been my responsibility. I've had one or two scares and on those ocasions, I was nothing but terrified.

Just because a woman takes risks, doesn't mean she secretly wants to get pregnant...a lot of the time its down to the heat of the moment or ignorance, just like men.

If I got pregnant tomorrow, I'd get an abortion.

If you're one of those guys that does insist, then good on you. I've been fairly promiscuous in my twenties and I can honestly say that it was me doing most of the insisting.

The Corinthian

I think this thread has kind of gone completely off topic.

The question is about whether men really need relationships, rather than father's rights that can be an issue even if you never had a relationship with the mother beyond a one night stand or a fling of a few weeks.

Regardless of whether men should be suspicious of the women they are with, educated on contraception or whatever, the fact remains that in our society women are socially, and often legally, preferred as the homemakers and child carers, which places them - when in a relationship - in a position of financial dependency on the man.

Unfortunately, this means that given the nature of the law (and the unofficial biases practiced in it), if they ever break up the man will end up losing out or, at worst, financially devastated - and this is before one even considers bringing fathers rights into the discussion, which further exasperate the problem.

So, as I said, men need relationships just like anybody else, but we simply cannot afford the risks associated with them that appear to be designed to protect only women.

opinion guy

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think this thread has kind of gone completely off topic.

The question is about whether men really need relationships, rather than father's rights that can be an issue even if you never had a relationship with the mother beyond a one night stand or a fling of a few weeks.

Regardless of whether men should be suspicious of the women they are with, educated on contraception or whatever, the fact remains that in our society women are socially, and often legally, preferred as the homemakers and child carers, which places them - when in a relationship - in a position of financial dependency on the man.

Unfortunately, this means that given the nature of the law (and the unofficial biases practiced in it), if they ever break up the man will end up losing out or, at worst, financially devastated - and this is before one even considers bringing fathers rights into the discussion, which further exasperate the problem.

So, as I said, men need relationships just like anybody else, but we simply cannot afford the risks associated with them that appear to be designed to protect only women.

Indeed it also means that if I get married and have kids more than likely I'm the one who will have to go to work to pay for it all. Whilst I would like to be able to work parttime in such an eventuality - if i were to go down that road, in all likelihood the societal norms would not allow me too.

I think you can just as easily argue than men lose out on home life whilst kids are growing up whilst women lose out on career. There is no biological reason for this.

caramel0

I wanted to point something out here. People here keep talking about how some individuals do not seem to know enough about contraception and the correct use of it. Well I am after doing my thesis on contraception and other issues related to this and found out, or confirmed that the sex education in Ireland is very poor or its not there :mad:, so i am not surprised when people think its safe to have sex during the period or when they have forgotten the pill or who knows what else. We have to look at the root of the problem and not the end result; and start from there by education children.

That's that, so to the OP's problem.

Should he not first talk to his gf, because no one here can really change anything for him. Im sure it would not be easy; but rather the hurtful truth, than a pretty lye?
We all get scared at times, but sure we cannot run away (well he can't), so it makes more sense to talk to the gf and sort something out, maybe she can work part-time or whatever and he can look after the child, maybe this will take the pressure of him and also make the gf's life easier :cool:.

Eve_Dublin

opinion guy wrote: »

I think you can just as easily argue than men lose out on home life whilst kids are growing up whilst women lose out on career. There is no biological reason for this.

Women also looses out on her social life, even the social side to the work environment. It's generally the woman who stays at home and minds the kids. Some men believe because they are the ones out earning the money that they have the right to go out with their mates for pints while their wife stays at home. Staying at home minding a kid with no adult company is hardly a laugh a minute I'm sure. I know this has caused lots of problems in relationships and this is most definitely the biggest deterent for me...

The man looses out, the woman also looses out as well but that's life. When you have a kid, sacrifices need to be made, at least 'till the kid gets a bit older. It's a case of sucking it up and getting along with it and both of them seeing it from each other's perspectives and coming to some sort of compromise. (renting a babysitter more often?) At the end of the day, moaning up here on Boards will achieve nothing....he needs to talk to his partner...the child is here to stay.

And the OP is accusing his friends' wives of entrapment. He says Ireland must have the highest rate of contraception failure in the world...I think it's more of a case of Ireland having little or no sex education in schools.

The Corinthian

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Women also looses out on her social life, even the social side to the work environment. It's generally the woman who stays at home and minds the kids. Some men believe because they are the ones out earning the money that they have the right to go out with their mates for pints while their wife stays at home. Staying at home minding a kid with no adult company is hardly a laugh a minute I'm sure. I know this has caused lots of problems in relationships and this is most definitely the biggest deterent for me...

In a relationship, especially with children, both sides compromise and lose out, as well as gain. The problem for men is not the price of a relationship, but the price of a relationship failing.