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Immigration into USA

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    #32
    lonestargirl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭lonestargirl


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    What if you are going to do if you get cancer, or you are in a car crash, or you fall down a flight of stairs or you want to do something REALLY adventurous like have a baby? I don't think that flashing your gym membership card is going to be of much help there.

    In the US, health care and hospitals are not subsidized by the government to the degree that that they are here, so costs for health care and hospital visits are sky high. It is a business over there, just like any other. A week long stay in a hospital for something as mundane as a broken leg would probably set you back the guts of $50,000 to $100,000. If you have insurance, that's great. If you don't, you will be pursued for it relentlessly, and you can't just tell them to feck off the way that you can here. Medical bills are the reason for 60% of personal bankruptcies in the US. As individual insurance policies are very, very expensive to buy, most people look to getting good health insurance thru their jobs. It can actually be a factor in people deciding to stay in crap jobs. Crazy, I know, but there you go.

    Re living in California, it's not for everyone. The cost of living there is very, very high and there are lots of other factors there too. Living there all year around is very, very different to living to visiting for a week long hollier.

    +1,
    My insurance paid out over 20k for my pregnancy.


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    #33
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    A lot here seem to go on about Health Care, Americans seem to be obsessed by it, the best investment in health care most of them should make is in a gym membership.

    Well as stated above there's massive reasons for that, also bear in mind Obama is trying to change it so its very current in the News lately.

    But having said that... the unhealthiness of the american population is pretty startling and a gym membership would probably help a lot.


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    #34
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    30% of Irish kids are now battling childhood obesity. If you look a lot Irish men past the age of 40, they usually have big, fat big bellies on them. Heck, by their late 20's, a lifetime of being force fed schpuds by their mammies, and force feeding themselves pints and takeaways is usually starting to be noticeable. I think that we would be better served pointing the finger at ourselves now, and not other countries.


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    #35
    rockonollie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭rockonollie


    lonestargirl wrote: »
    +1,
    My insurance paid out over 20k for my pregnancy.

    We're only through 5 months of our pregnancy and our total bills so far have been $2529.85, thanks to insurance, we've only had to pay $923.02 ourselves, once we hit $3000 out of pocket, we don't pay another penny.


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    #36
    silja
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭silja


    rockonollie wrote: »
    We're only through 5 months of our pregnancy and our total bills so far have been $2529.85, thanks to insurance, we've only had to pay $923.02 ourselves, once we hit $3000 out of pocket, we don't pay another penny.

    *nods*
    We could not get maternity insurance because of previous infertility, and ended up pregnant naturally. We were able to negotiate a 33% discount on all routine care by paying in full at the very first visit at 7 weeks pregnant. The whole thing (pre-natal care, one ultrasound, one night in hospital for standard, non-complicated birth) cost us just over $10'000. It could easily have been more if there was a c-section or we lived in a more expensive area of the country.


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    #37
    rockonollie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭rockonollie


    silja wrote: »
    *nods*
    We could not get maternity insurance because of previous infertility, and ended up pregnant naturally. We were able to negotiate a 33% discount on all routine care by paying in full at the very first visit at 7 weeks pregnant. The whole thing (pre-natal care, one ultrasound, one night in hospital for standard, non-complicated birth) cost us just over $10'000. It could easily have been more if there was a c-section or we lived in a more expensive area of the country.

    The other nasty side to insurance in the US.....we'll give you this fantastic rate and health care options, but we aren't going to cover the thing you're most likely to need........ *sigh*


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    #38
    rockonollie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭rockonollie


    Also....we appear to have hijacked the thread.....sorry Mods.


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    #39
    Marylouise10
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Marylouise10


    rockonollie wrote: »
    The other nasty side to insurance in the US.....we'll give you this fantastic rate and health care options, but we aren't going to cover the thing you're most likely to need........ *sigh*

    Reading all of these threads about insurance and how much it costs to have a baby...I'm staying put! We're blessed in this country that we can walk into any hospital and have a baby and after a day or two straight back out with no fees. Yikes, America seems a very scary place to live if you're not rich!


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    #40
    rockonollie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭rockonollie


    Marylouise10 wrote: »
    Reading all of these threads about insurance and how much it costs to have a baby...I'm staying put! We're blessed in this country that we can walk into any hospital and have a baby and after a day or two straight back out with no fees. Yikes, America seems a very scary place to live if you're not rich!

    Don't get me wrong, health insurance is affordable, especially if your employer offers it (and most full time positions in the US bring healthcare).....you just run into problems with pre-existing conditions.


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    #41
    gaillimh
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭gaillimh


    Am I correct in saying that if you have a relative that is a US citizen then they can sponsor you for a green card?
    Or am I wrong in saying that?
    Anybody know what the rules are around that (I.e how close of a relation does it need to be)?


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    #42
    silja
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭silja


    gaillimh wrote: »
    Am I correct in saying that if you have a relative that is a US citizen then they can sponsor you for a green card?
    Or am I wrong in saying that?
    Anybody know what the rules are around that (I.e how close of a relation does it need to be)?

    They can petition you for a visa, which leads to a greencard upon entry. Family that can sponsor you:
    - Parents
    - Children
    - Siblings
    - Wife/ husband
    - Fiance/e

    If the family are only greencard holders and not citizens, they can only sponsor husband/ wife, minor children or unmarried adult children.


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    #43
    Marylouise10
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Marylouise10


    I just heard today from an American citizen that a few years a back an illegal immigrant from Mexico died because he didn't go to the doctor when he was ill because he was afraid of possible deportation! A new policy was created after this that states any foreign citizen illegal or not can recieve medical attention without a social security number for little or no fees?! Surely this is not true??


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    #44
    rockonollie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭rockonollie


    Marylouise10 wrote: »
    I just heard today from an American citizen that a few years a back an illegal immigrant from Mexico died because he didn't go to the doctor when he was ill because he was afraid of possible deportation! A new policy was created after this that states any foreign citizen illegal or not can recieve medical attention without a social security number for little or no fees?! Surely this is not true??


    All hospitals are legally obliged to treat any patient, little to no fees part is wrong......the cannot refuse you treatment because of lack of proper IDs, or insurance.......but they can still pursue you for what is owed after the fact.


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    #45
    lonestargirl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭lonestargirl


    rockonollie wrote: »
    All hospitals are legally obliged to treat any patient, little to no fees part is wrong......the cannot refuse you treatment because of lack of proper IDs, or insurance.......but they can still pursue you for what is owed after the fact.

    And it's only emergency treatment that they must provide, not ongoing treatment on conditions.


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    #46
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    rockonollie wrote: »
    All hospitals are legally obliged to treat any patient, little to no fees part is wrong......the cannot refuse you treatment because of lack of proper IDs, or insurance.......but they can still pursue you for what is owed after the fact.

    That is true up to a point. However, it only applies to emergency care. Emergency responders (the people who come get you if someone dials 999, or who come get you on the side of the road if you are in a car crash) generally take people to the local county hospital. They are the hospitals that most people would not send their dog to, if given half a choice.

    They are the ones with A&E depts that are over loaded with all the gang bangers, homeless people, gang members, drug addicts and winos clogging them up. Unless you are bleeding from every single bodily cavity, you are looking at a 12 hr wait to get treated & then when you are seen to, your medical care wouldn't be anything to write home about.

    Most people are patched up and sent on their way. If they are admitted to a ward, they are then looking at bills in the tens of thousands minimum, hundreds of thousands maximum. If you are a homeless person and you couldn't really care less about your inability to pay your medical bills, and the effect that will have on your credit score, you don't have a thing to worry about. If you are an average middle class person with a job and a house and a bank account, who actually cares about their financial well being & future, you can pretty much kiss all that goodbye.

    I bet lots of people will think that I am scaremongering, but over 60% of all personal bankruptcies in the US are due to unpaid medical bills. Having the local county hospital take care of you free gratis is no where as easy as it seems.


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    #47
    Marylouise10
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Marylouise10


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    That is true up to a point. However, it only applies to emergency care. Emergency responders (the people who come get you if someone dials 999, or who come get you on the side of the road if you are in a car crash) generally take people to the local county hospital. They are the hospitals that most people would not send their dog to, if given half a choice.

    They are the ones with A&E depts that are over loaded with all the gang bangers, homeless people, gang members, drug addicts and winos clogging them up. Unless you are bleeding from every single bodily cavity, you are looking at a 12 hr wait to get treated & then when you are seen to, your medical care wouldn't be anything to write home about.

    Most people are patched up and sent on their way. If they are admitted to a ward, they are then looking at bills in the tens of thousands minimum, hundreds of thousands maximum. If you are a homeless person and you couldn't really care less about your inability to pay your medical bills, and the effect that will have on your credit score, you don't have a thing to worry about. If you are an average middle class person with a job and a house and a bank account, who actually cares about their financial well being & future, you can pretty much kiss all that goodbye.

    I bet lots of people will think that I am scaremongering, but over 60% of all personal bankruptcies in the US are due to unpaid medical bills. Having the local county hospital take care of you free gratis is no where as easy as it seems.

    But if you're an illegal immigrant you don't have a bank account or proof of job or a valid address. So how could you get billed?


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    #48
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Don't think that boards allows people to give advice or tips on how to circumnavigate the system Mary Louise. If you are in the country illegally, you'll receive crap medical care, compared to the medical care that people who are in the country legally and/or who have health insurance. The fact that you can not be pursued for payment does impact the level of care that you will get from hospitals. No one wants to admit that, as it seems very cold & inhumane, but it's a fact.


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    #49
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Marylouise10 wrote: »
    I just heard today from an American citizen that a few years a back an illegal immigrant from Mexico died because he didn't go to the doctor when he was ill because he was afraid of possible deportation! A new policy was created after this that states any foreign citizen illegal or not can recieve medical attention without a social security number for little or no fees?! Surely this is not true??

    No.

    Its a popular myth though, and mostly put out by the anti-immigration right wingers. The myth is : "Those people come over here and use our hospitals and dont have to pay anything".

    The truth is that people who cant afford health insurance wont be turned away from a hospital if they need emergency treatment.

    However they will still be given a bill. Probably a huge bill. and it will be sent in the post sometime after they've left. And they will be in debt for a huge amount and it will effect their credit rating possibly for the rest of their lives. Now if youre really destitute and on fake ID and can run back to nicragua and hide out you may get away with it. But its not so easy for us first worlders.

    The debt will follow you back to Ireland.


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    #50
    Marylouise10
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Marylouise10


    Ok let's clear something up, I have no intention of leaving the security of my own country to live illegally in America and be billed thousands if I get sick. I'm just hugely curious about how systems work in different countries. Our system is being hijacked by non nationals and its wildly frustrating and heartbreaking as our country is on our knees so, I don't fancy being that person in someone else's country.


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    #51
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Marylouise10 wrote: »
    Ok let's clear something up, I have no intention of leaving the security of my own country to live illegally in America and be billed thousands if I get sick. I'm just hugely curious about how systems work in different countries. Our system is being hijacked by non nationals and its wildly frustrating and heartbreaking as our country is on our knees so, I don't fancy being that person in someone else's country.

    The process would be that a bill is sent to the patient. If they fail to pay, it would be forwarded to a Collection Agency here in the USA. Debt collectors. They would try and track the person down using whatever ID they had. During that time it would also go to the Credit reporting agencies. Its the Credit reporting agencies that will really cause a person grief. They can insinuate themselves into your life so you never get a credit card, mortgage, etc, until you've paid it off.

    That's pretty much it, I think. If you have nothing to lose then obviously its the only option, but its certainly NEVER free. Its like saying there's free restaurants in the USA just because you can do a runnner.

    The original Hospital would write if off as a bad debt when they send it to the collection agency so they're out of the loop. The debt collection agency probably buys the debt for a small fraction of the original amount.


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    #52
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    The process would be that a bill is sent to the patient. If they fail to pay, it would be forwarded to a Collection Agency here in the USA. Debt collectors. They would try and track the person down using whatever ID they had. During that time it would also go to the Credit reporting agencies. Its the Credit reporting agencies that will really cause a person grief. They can insinuate themselves into your life so you never get a credit card, mortgage, etc, until you've paid it off.

    That's pretty much it, I think. If you have nothing to lose then obviously its the only option, but its certainly NEVER free. Its like saying there's free restaurants in the USA just because you can do a runnner.

    The original Hospital would write if off as a bad debt when they send it to the collection agency so they're out of the loop. The debt collection agency probably buys the debt for a small fraction of the original amount.

    This depends on the state. In NY state, if you are pregnant you will get Medicaid regardless of your immigration status.

    If you have nothing you are covered. Tis the part timers and the inbetweeneies who struggle.

    Medical billing is often padded up, and the only industrybthatbdoes not have to be transparent about its prices before delivering the service. Many times things end up being a write off.

    There are people who don't qualify for Medicaid but who can't afford private insurance who use the ER as their GPs office, and just let the bills run up. Not all hospitals are grungy like Proud dub describes. You should see the maternity ward in NYC county hospital. Absolutely stunning. Widescreen TVs, birthing pools, jacuzzis, beautiful. And Medicaid will cover treatment in the non county hospitals too.

    I've seen the hospitals outside the major cities and they are pretty nice.

    Plus there is so much identity theft, that credit reports don't hold the same weight they used to.


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    #53
    Marylouise10
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Marylouise10


    Makes you think, there are supposedly 11 million illegal immigrants in America, that the regular working class people are paying taxes to get them looked after if they get sick or have children. Surely the immigration bill would do more good than bad if passed ASAP? No?


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    #54
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    It's a very complicated issue. One of the arguments to offering an amnesty to all these illegal aliens, is that if they can live and work in the US legally, then can then start paying taxes too. If they are paying their way & contributing towards the services that they are using, then the services themselves can improve. The way things are now, they are not and a lot of them are under severe strain. But that's just one aspect of it. The other side say that under no circumstances should breaking US immigration law be rewarded and if it is, it will only encourage others to do it too. Like I said, it's very complicated.
    clairefontaine wrote: »

    Plus there is so much identity theft, that credit reports don't hold the same weight they used to.

    Don't agree with that at all. If you have bad credit, and you try to get a mortgage, or a car loan or a credit card, or a store charge card, you'll still be refused, or be hit with very high fees/penalties/interest rates. If try to do things that a bad credit score can impact (such as rent an apartment, or sign up with a utility company, or sign a mobile phone contract) you'll likely be hit with high fees and up front deposits. Identity theft has been around for years. No one is going to give you an easy ride just because it exists imo.


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    #55
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    It's a very complicated issue. One of the arguments to offering an amnesty to all these illegal aliens, is that if they can live and work in the US legally, then can then start paying taxes too. If they are paying their way & contributing towards the services that they are using, then the services themselves can improve. The way things are now, they are not and a lot of them are under severe strain. But that's just one aspect of it. The other side say that under no circumstances should breaking US immigration law be rewarded and if it is, it will only encourage others to do it too. Like I said, it's very complicated.



    Don't agree with that at all. If you have bad credit, and you try to get a mortgage, or a car loan or a credit card, or a store charge card, you'll still be refused, or be hit with very high fees/penalties/interest rates. If try to do things that a bad credit score can impact (such as rent an apartment, or sign up with a utility company, or sign a mobile phone contract) you'll likely be hit with high fees and up front deposits. Identity theft has been around for years. No one is going to give you an easy ride just because it exists imo.

    I didn't say they hold no weight, just not the same weight.


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    #56
    Marylouise10
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Marylouise10


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    It's a very complicated issue. One of the arguments to offering an amnesty to all these illegal aliens, is that if they can live and work in the US legally, then can then start paying taxes too. If they are paying their way & contributing towards the services that they are using, then the services themselves can improve. The way things are now, they are not and a lot of them are under severe strain. But that's just one aspect of it. The other side say that under no circumstances should breaking US immigration law be rewarded and if it is, it will only encourage others to do it too. Like I said, it's very complicated.



    Don't agree with that at all. If you have bad credit, and you try to get a mortgage, or a car loan or a credit card, or a store charge card, you'll still be refused, or be hit with very high fees/penalties/interest rates. If try to do things that a bad credit score can impact (such as rent an apartment, or sign up with a utility company, or sign a mobile phone contract) you'll likely be hit with high fees and up front deposits. Identity theft has been around for years. No one is going to give you an easy ride just because it exists imo.

    But if you're an illegal alien with no ID except for your passport. No address, no bank account...how can you get a bad credit rating? Or are you talking about people in general who don't pay for medical treatments?


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