Ladies: How would you react if your husband/boyfriend turned out to be transgender?

caseyann

zoegh wrote: »

Well more a case of, what if the person you were dating, or were in a relationship with told you that they were born a different gender to the way they look now? i know that's slightly off topic from Links' original post, but it's relevant, I think... At what point does it matter?

Obviously if you were with someone, in love with them, and they told you that basically, they'd no longer look like the person you fell in love with, that'd be very weird, I don't think anyone is disputing that. But what if you've only know them as a man, for example, and maybe when you're booking holidays or something he decides he needs to tell you that on his passport, he's down as Mary... What then? You've fallen for him, as a man, would the knowledge of his previous 'state' bother you?

Yes that would to,its called a lie and relationships arent built on lies and been mislead to that extent.I would be more angry about that then OPs.

Links234

digitalremote wrote: »

That a woman "changed" into a "man" and started a relationship with me which was full of lies.

what if you're in a relationship with a man and he changed into a woman?

candy-gal1

Tbh I think if you love your boyf/husband now then you should still love them if they changed sex. the only difference it should make is if their personality/love for you changed too imho.

caseyann

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Tbh I think if you love your boyf/husband now then you should still love them if they changed sex. the only difference it should make is if their personality/love for you changed too imho.

So your bf becomes a woman and you should stay with them,or your gf becomes a man and you should stay with them. Ridiculous.You are not gay or lesbian and not going to change what you like just because they want to change their sexuality.
Love has its boundaries and its a lie when they enter into relationship or marriage under false pretenses.

candy-gal1

caseyann wrote: »

So your bf becomes a woman and you should stay with them,or your gf becomes a man and you should stay with them. Ridiculous.You are not gay or lesbian and not going to change what you like just because they want to change their sexuality.
Love has its boundaries and its a lie when they enter into relationship or marriage under false pretenses.

ah okay, i can see what your saying there anyway.

Giselle

caseyann wrote: »

No i could not stay with that person no matter how much i loved him.
I would wish him luck,if kids involved i couldn't imagine the trauma of it for them.
It is their responsibility to deal with their sexuality before they commit to someone,rather then throw that at them when married with kids.

Its not a question of sexuality, its a question of gender identity.

From my limited understanding of the subject, issues with gender identity can be very much submerged and denied for many years.

Not only because of the personal trauma to the transgendered person themselves, but because of society's reaction and lack of understanding of transgender disorder, and related issues. Its not something people affected can just deal with easily.

Links234

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Tbh I think if you love your boyf/husband now then you should still love them if they changed sex. the only difference it should make is if their personality/love for you changed too imho.

it's very wonderful for you to say, but just to be completely clear, this is an absolutely HUGE change we're talking about.

http://i.imgur.com/keetd.jpg
http://imgur.com/gsC2A.jpg
http://imgur.com/jOVZz.jpg

baby and crumble

caseyann wrote:

Yes that would to,its called a lie and relationships arent built on lies and been mislead to that extent.I would be more angry about that then OPs.

But he's always been a man... he has all the bits in the right place now... At what point do you think a person should disclose this information? First date? When you meet in the pub?

Posy

zoegh wrote: »

But he's always been a man... he has all the bits in the right place now... At what point do you think a person should disclose this information? First date? When you meet in the pub?

It's hard to know when any such information should be disclosed. It depends on the people involved. Probably the same time you would tell somebody you had met that you're a single parent/full time carer to a disabled relative/unable to have children or anything else that's a big part of your life that could effect any potential relationship.

The Big Red Button

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Tbh I think if you love your boyf/husband now then you should still love them if they changed sex. the only difference it should make is if their personality/love for you changed too imho.

See I could not stay in a relationship just because I signed up for life and should therefore still love them, no matter what. I would hate to feel "guilted" into something like that.

I don't think I'd have a problem with it. If I care about a person I don't care about anything, not even gender. And I'm well aware that it's possible for a person to have many hidden parts of themselves. When you conceal them from others it's not a malicious act; it's about fear. To think that someone you love would reject such a big part of you is horrifying. And the majority of people have a big problem with transgenders. It's not surprising that they'd want to hide it. In contrast to being betrayed I'd feel sorry for them having to go so long hiding who they are. And I'd also feel very proud of them for having the strength to finally tell the truth.

Morlar

Just felt like sharing the fact that apparently if you thank a post that links234 doesn't approve of you get one of these pm's ;

*SNIP*

Morlar, PM's. the clue is in the name. Private. Post another and you'll get a long ban. If a PM does cause an issue for you, you can report it and the admins will take action.

caseyann

Giselle wrote: »

Its not a question of sexuality, its a question of gender identity.

From my limited understanding of the subject, issues with gender identity can be very much submerged and denied for many years.

Not only because of the personal trauma to the transgendered person themselves, but because of society's reaction and lack of understanding of transgender disorder, and related issues. Its not something people affected can just deal with easily.

I understand it and i fully support anyone who is not happy as the gender they are born with.
It is not something you should enter into a marriage or serious relationship with and also have kids.That in itself is misleading.If i was having issues with something such as that,i would never get involved with someone and lie.
They know for themselves they are struggling with those feelings and until they have come to terms with them should not involve other persons.

zoegh wrote: »

But he's always been a man... he has all the bits in the right place now... At what point do you think a person should disclose this information? First date? When you meet in the pub?

He hasnt always been a man.If he lied to me he simply lied to me,and that is enough.Open straight from the beginning instead of lying and hurting someone.

baby and crumble

caseyann wrote:

If he lied to me he simply lied to me,and that is enough.Open straight from the beginning instead of lying and hurting someone.

Ok, so by that logic if you are unable to have kids because you had a hysterectomy, or if you have a mental disorder that means you're on medication for life (like bipolar etc.) you should tell a person you might only have 1 date with? I can't imagine too many people doing that, disclosing their entire history to someone who, lets face it on the first date, you barely know.

zoegh

zoegh wrote: »

Ok, so by that logic if you are unable to have kids because you had a hysterectomy, or if you have a mental disorder that means you're on medication for life (like bipolar etc.) you should tell a person you might only have 1 date with? I can't imagine too many people doing that, disclosing their entire history to someone who, lets face it on the first date, you barely know.

Precisely. If I told everyone I was interested in about being on the Austim Spectrum right off the bat, I'd never stand a chance at developing a proper relationship. 'Being who you are' and all that crap is good in theory, but the truth is if people are hit by this sort of information before they've even decided they're serious, most are inclined to run. Even imagining it myself I think I'd feel a little overwhelmed.
Relationships are progressive and it always takes time to learn all that you need to know about someone. And it's only natural that the most difficult part of a person should be buried very deep. To protect oneself and such.

caseyann

zoegh wrote: »

Ok, so by that logic if you are unable to have kids because you had a hysterectomy, or if you have a mental disorder that means you're on medication for life (like bipolar etc.) you should tell a person you might only have 1 date with? I can't imagine too many people doing that, disclosing their entire history to someone who, lets face it on the first date, you barely know.

How does straight off mean first date? I am talking about as soon as you want it to become sexual then you tell.No right to pretend you are something you are not and mislead anyone.

Links234

caseyann wrote: »

No right to pretend you are something you are not and mislead anyone.

do you mean that someone who is transgender is only pretending to be that gender and is misleading people?

caseyann

Links234 wrote: »

do you mean that someone who is transgender is only pretending to be that gender and is misleading people?

No no ofc not.I meant they are having issues with those feelings of been transgender and misleading someone by starting a relationship under the pretense of been who they are on outside but not inside.That is misleading.
When someone of transgender also has taken the change and pretends they were born physically male or female,allowing someone to fall for them who may not be ok with it.Is also misleading.

baby and crumble

caseyann wrote:

How does straight off mean first date? I am talking about as soon as you want it to become sexual then you tell.No right to pretend you are something you are not and mislead anyone.

I think most people would agree 'straight off' = as soon as possible.

As for the as soon as you want it to become sexual... I think that's somewhat naive. Sex, sadly, does not always equal intimacy, and not all sexual relationships are going to last the distance. When you have sex and when you have a relationship are two radically different things, for a lot of people.

I'm just trying to figure out what's the situation here because it seems a little mixed up... you say nobody should lie, which is fair enough, but then you say wait until it's going to get sexual... that could be the first night, or it could mean waiting until you're in love, and then you could be seen to have mislead the person, using your vernacular.

I am also confused about your actual opinion on transgendered individuals. You seem to think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that it's some kind of cosmetic procedure?

vicecreamsundae

i find it sad that so many people are saying they would feel betrayed or angry, as if trans people are deceiving others, when really what they want is to be true to themselves - and i think it's sad that people are saying that would be selfish.

if i was seeing a guy and he told me he had been born female, i would be fine with it. if i was seeing a guy and he told me he wanted to transition, how i would react would depend. the idea of them transitioning would not upset me, it would really just come down to whether i still fancy them as a woman -its the difference between if they had a boyish haircut and wore jeans and tshirts or if they started to wear heels and lipstick[which i would not find attractive]. how i feel about them as a person wouldn't change, but i would need to be still sexually attracted to them for it to work.

ash23

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

i find it sad that so many people are saying they would feel betrayed or angry, as if trans people are deceiving others, when really what they want is to be true to themselves - and i think it's sad that people are saying that would be selfish.

It is selfish though. If someone has an idea that they are gay or they were born into the wrong body and they marry someone and have children, all the while ignoring/burying this, then they are using that person as a ruse in a way. They are wasting that persons life while they decide what they actually want to do or decide who they are.

I was in an LTR with someone who wasn't sure whether family life was for him. And yes, when he admitted he had been unsure for years and he wanted to go and live the single life he craved, damn right I felt angry and used. He wasted years of MY life while he hmmmed and hawwed over what to do. He let me buy a home with him, raise a child with him etc and all the while he was having these doubts. My life is not a play thing. My time is not of lesser importance.

I feel for anyone who has to face these feelings and who struggles with them. But I do feel if they drag another person into it, if they create children with that person, spend years fooling themselves and their "partner" then they are being selfish. They are not the only victim in the scenario. It might be about them being "true to themselves" but if they create a situation where they have led someone to believe they were a woman/man and built a life on that fact, allowed someone to fall in love with them etc, then I think it's selfish and misleading.

I would feel a similar way if a man I fell for told me years later he was sterile, he didn't agree with marriage, he had a child etc. Imo all these things should be disclosed early on in a relationship to allow the other person a choice.
If you bury them to make your life easier or to cover up who you really are then it's selfish. Because you are using another person for your own gain.

Catari Jaguar

Just a whole area I can't get my head around and I like to think I'm open minded.. Total deal breaker.

caseyann

zoegh wrote: »

I think most people would agree 'straight off' = as soon as possible.

As for the as soon as you want it to become sexual... I think that's somewhat naive. Sex, sadly, does not always equal intimacy, and not all sexual relationships are going to last the distance. When you have sex and when you have a relationship are two radically different things, for a lot of people.

I'm just trying to figure out what's the situation here because it seems a little mixed up... you say nobody should lie, which is fair enough, but then you say wait until it's going to get sexual... that could be the first night, or it could mean waiting until you're in love, and then you could be seen to have mislead the person, using your vernacular.

I am also confused about your actual opinion on transgendered individuals. You seem to think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that it's some kind of cosmetic procedure?

Where did i point out anything about what i think of them in a cosmetic point of view? Not even apart of the points i made.

Some what naive?How exactly your comment makes no sense what so ever in what i said,and you are merely picking.
If someone sleeps with someone under the pretense they were physically always a man or always a woman.It is a lie and deceiving. Doesn't matter if its the first night or the 10 month or 2 year.A lie is a lie.Maybe not to them as they always felt male or female inside.But it is to the other person.
And no one has a right to deceive someone.
If i was transgender i would tell as soon as i felt comfortable with the person,and not consummate anything before i was sure they were happy with it.And if they arent thats their right and move on.

Links234

ash23 wrote: »

It is selfish though. If someone has an idea that they are gay or they were born into the wrong body and they marry someone and have children, all the while ignoring/burying this, then they are using that person as a ruse in a way. They are wasting that persons life while they decide what they actually want to do or decide who they are.

I was in an LTR with someone who wasn't sure whether family life was for him. And yes, when he admitted he had been unsure for years and he wanted to go and live the single life he craved, damn right I felt angry and used. He wasted years of MY life while he hmmmed and hawwed over what to do. He let me buy a home with him, raise a child with him etc and all the while he was having these doubts. My life is not a play thing. My time is not of lesser importance.

I feel for anyone who has to face these feelings and who struggles with them. But I do feel if they drag another person into it, if they create children with that person, spend years fooling themselves and their "partner" then they are being selfish. They are not the only victim in the scenario. It might be about them being "true to themselves" but if they create a situation where they have led someone to believe they were a woman/man and built a life on that fact, allowed someone to fall in love with them etc, then I think it's selfish and misleading.

I would feel a similar way if a man I fell for told me years later he was sterile, he didn't agree with marriage, he had a child etc. Imo all these things should be disclosed early on in a relationship to allow the other person a choice.
If you bury them to make your life easier or to cover up who you really are then it's selfish. Because you are using another person for your own gain.

I'm sorry ash23 but that's a really, really unfair comparison to make. this isn't anything like wanting to lead a single life, it's not a lifestyle choice or something, and I really don't think that anyone would be using a relationship as a ruse, that's pretty horrible.

the book I talked about in the opening post, She's Not There by Jennifer Finney Boylan, it's clear from reading it just how absolutely dedicated she is to her wife and kids, and just how much she loves them. she is definitely not someone who's just been wasting time with a marriage while she decides, it's absolutely not like that at all.

cherub rock wrote: »

Just a whole area I can't get my head around and I like to think I'm open minded.. Total deal breaker.

well, if there's anything you don't understand, feel free to ask me a question and I'll try to answer as best I can.

Xiney

Actually I think it's a perfectly fair comparison to make.

Whether the person intended it or not, they have essentially led their partner to believe in a future that is no longer going to be, and it's their doing that has changed that.

Intent doesn't matter.

I'm not saying that someone who does feel the need to change genders should just grin and bear it if they're already married with children, I'm just saying that when they do let their partner know, there is going to be a lot of hurt. And it won't be the fault of the partner.

krudler

caseyann wrote: »

Where did i point out anything about what i think of them in a cosmetic point of view? Not even apart of the points i made.

Some what naive?How exactly your comment makes no sense what so ever in what i said,and you are merely picking.
If someone sleeps with someone under the pretense they were physically always a man or always a woman.It is a lie and deceiving. Doesn't matter if its the first night or the 10 month or 2 year.A lie is a lie.Maybe not to them as they always felt male or female inside.But it is to the other person.
And no one has a right to deceive someone.
If i was transgender i would tell as soon as i felt comfortable with the person,and not consummate anything before i was sure they were happy with it.And if they arent thats their right and move on.

Agree, keeping something like the fact you were once a different gender isnt like not immediately telling someone you sleep around a lot, or have a kid from a previous relationship, or something that they may need to know at some point but not right then, if you are/were a woman/man then the other person should know that. I think the majority of people would be a little shocked or freaked out to find out someone they just slept with was previously a different gender, they may find themselves questioning their own sexuality in a way they never thought they would.

Links234

but xiney, you're saying that as if it's a certainty that the person led their partner to believe anything, when this is something that could very easily not be apparent to them. and no, it won't be the fault of the partner, but that doesn't mean it's anyone else's fault. people don't choose this.

Xiney

Links234 wrote: »

but xiney, you're saying that as if it's a certainty that the person led their partner to believe anything, when this is something that could very easily not be apparent to them. and no, it won't be the fault of the partner, but that doesn't mean it's anyone else's fault. people don't choose this.

It doesn't matter that they didn't choose it.

krudler

Links234 wrote: »

but xiney, you're saying that as if it's a certainty that the person led their partner to believe anything, when this is something that could very easily not be apparent to them. and no, it won't be the fault of the partner, but that doesn't mean it's anyone else's fault. people don't choose this.

People dont choose to be gay either, but someone who begins a relationship under the pretence that they're straight when thay already know themselves they're not is lying to someone else.

Links234

krudler wrote: »

People dont choose to be gay either, but someone who begins a relationship under the pretence that they're straight when thay already know themselves they're not is lying to someone else.

but again, you're assuming this is something the person knows when they start the relationship

WesternNight

Links234 wrote: »

but xiney, you're saying that as if it's a certainty that the person led their partner to believe anything, when this is something that could very easily not be apparent to them. and no, it won't be the fault of the partner, but that doesn't mean it's anyone else's fault. people don't choose this.

It doesn't have to be anyone's fault. It's not the responsibility of the partner to ignore the fact that there's this massive revelation and carry on as normal just because it wasn't an intentional mislead. To expect someone to not take that into account because they're "supposed to love the person" is ridiculous.

Xiney

Links234 wrote: »

but again, you're assuming this is something the person knows when they start the relationship

See, I simply don't buy that someone would have no inkling whatsoever. I think it's possible to lie to yourself, but I don't think it's possible to convince yourself of something that isn't true.

krudler

Links234 wrote: »

but again, you're assuming this is something the person knows when they start the relationship

I dont imagine most transgender people wake up one morning in the middle of a long term relationship and suddenly decide to change sex, and if they do and then assume the other person should just blindly go along with their decision then that is being selfish.

Links234

WesternNight wrote: »

It doesn't have to be anyone's fault. It's not the responsibility of the partner to ignore the fact that there's this massive revelation and carry on as normal just because it wasn't an intentional mislead. To expect someone to not take that into account because they're "supposed to love the person" is ridiculous.

I am NOT saying anyone should carry on like normal, that's not at all what I am saying.
I'm just responding the idea that someone would be intentionally misleading, when that very often isn't the case

Links234

xiney, krudler, I think we're going around in circles now, this has all been gone over before earlier in the thread, like here

krudler wrote: »

and then assume the other person should just blindly go along with their decision then that is being selfish.

but that is NOT what I'm saying!

ash23

Links234 wrote: »

I'm sorry ash23 but that's a really, really unfair comparison to make. this isn't anything like wanting to lead a single life, it's not a lifestyle choice or something, and I really don't think that anyone would be using a relationship as a ruse, that's pretty horrible.

the book I talked about in the opening post, She's Not There by Jennifer Finney Boylan, it's clear from reading it just how absolutely dedicated she is to her wife and kids, and just how much she loves them. she is definitely not someone who's just been wasting time with a marriage while she decides, it's absolutely not like that at all.

Are you actually telling me that a transgender/homosexual person has absolutely NO inkling at all prior to the marriage. Even that author you mention had her doubts early on in life.
I have read many many stories, moreso based on a person who was gay and married and practically every single one of them had an inkling that they were gay from a young age. Many had doubts prior to the wedding.

I'm not for one second saying that they wouldn't be dedicated to their kids. I would even say that in some regards they do love their spouse. However that doesn't change the fact that they went into something knowing it didn't feel right. And that is totally unfair to the other person.

Anyone who has dounts, be it about sexuality, gender identity, the strength of love they have for their partner or the type of life they want, and proceeds with a wedding and children, is fooling themselves and their spouse.

It may not have been their intent to mislead or use, but that is essentially what the duped party will feel like, regardless of why the other person did it.

To say a person shouldn't feel used is madness. Of course they would. Their whole life was a lie basically. They met someone, fell in love, got married and had babies with a person who was always thinking "is this what I want".

Every memory, every special day, every intimate moment would feel like a sham. The future they had planned would be in smithereens. But it feels that some on here think the spouse should just feel sympathy for the transgender individual. And should even continue to love them and accept them for who they now want to be.

Sorry, but no.

If a person has doubts about their gender or sexuality, then stay single and figure it out. Or explain it to someone who can accept it and have a relationship. But don't marry some unsuspecting individual and turn around years later and blow the life you have apart.

Links234

ash23 wrote: »

Are you actually telling me that a transgender/homosexual person has absolutely NO inkling at all prior to the marriage.

I'm saying it's possible.

look at cynthia nixon for an example

ash23

Links234 wrote: »

I'm saying it's possible.

look at cynthia nixon for an example

Slightly different. She was single when she met her partner. I do believe some people fall in love with a person as opposed to a gender.

But she was single. Although I am sure her ex husband does struggle. however she didn't turn to him in the middle of a relationship and say she was gay. She was a single woman who fell for a single woman. Had she still been with her husband and fallen in love with a woman, committed adultery etc then I expect he would feel used, lied to, and like their marriage was a sham considering most people feel that way when cheated on, regardless of whether or not sexuality is an issue.

baby and crumble

ash23 wrote:

I have read many many stories, moreso based on a person who was gay and married and practically every single one of them had an inkling that they were gay from a young age.

I had boyfriends before I ever thought I was gay. Seriously. I fancied guys until I was about 17. I could have had a baby, legally, with any of them. I did not ever, during those relationships honestly think I was gay.

Ok, yes, a 16 year olds relationship could be argued to not be as serious as a marriage, but plenty of people stay with their first teenage partner, have kids, all that.

There's also a theory of a second puberty- where hormonal changes, especially for females, coming into middle age and towards the menopause. This can possibly trigger a shift in sexuality. I'll drop the link in here to something that discusses the possibility in a few mins when I find it.

Malari

Links234 wrote: »

I'm saying it's possible.

look at cynthia nixon for an example

Care to elaborate on that for those of us who don't keep up to date with celebrity gossip? Was Cynthia previously a man? :eek:

I would imagine it's highly improbable that someone wouldn't have an idea that they were unhappy with their gender from a very young age.

baby and crumble

Here's a link to a story about the possibility of a second puberty-

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/love-sex/the-day-i-realised-i-was-in-love-with-another-woman-2291747.html

Some text fromt he article (which also talks baout women who knew they were lesbians froma young age in 50's Ireland)

At this month's American Psychological Association's annual convention in San Diego, a session entitled 'Sexual Fluidity and Late-Blooming Lesbians' is set to present a study of women who experienced a same-sex attraction when they were over 30 and married to a man.

But while some always fantasised about the fairer sex, for others, their newfound lesbianism is as much a shock to themselves as it is to their families.

For author Carren Strock, the revelation came when she was 44.

Married to her high-school sweetheart for 25 years, the mum-of-two had the picture-perfect family life in suburban New York when the penny dropped.

One day, sitting opposite her best friend, she realised: "Oh my God. I'm in love with this woman."

Although the feeling wasn't mutual, it triggered Carren's life-altering acceptance of the fact that she was a lesbian.

"If you'd asked me the previous year, I would have replied: 'I know exactly who and what I am -- I am not a lesbian, nor could I ever be one'," says Carren, who subsequently wrote the book Married Women Who Love Women based on her experience.

Such cases have led boffins to surmise that sexuality is, in fact, fluid and can change over the course of a lifetime.

But is it possible for a heterosexual woman to suddenly wake up gay?

Until now, the accepted wisdom has been that when a person comes out later in life, they must have always been gay or bisexual -- but hid their sexuality.

Increasingly, researchers are questioning whether adults go through a type of second puberty that can impact on their sexual preference.

A recent University of Utah study tracked shifts in the sexual identity of a group of 79 women over 15 years. By the end of the study, about 70pc had changed how they had initially labelled themselves as straight, lesbian or bisexual.

Links234

Malari wrote: »

I would imagine it's highly improbable that someone wouldn't have an idea that they were unhappy with their gender from a very young age.

I didn't.

ash23

zoegh wrote: »

I had boyfriends before I ever thought I was gay. Seriously. I fancied guys until I was about 17. I could have had a baby, legally, with any of them. I did not ever, during those relationships honestly think I was gay.

Ok, yes, a 16 year olds relationship could be argued to not be as serious as a marriage, but plenty of people stay with their first teenage partner, have kids, all that.

There's also a theory of a second puberty- where hormonal changes, especially for females, coming into middle age and towards the menopause. This can possibly trigger a shift in sexuality. I'll drop the link in here to something that discusses the possibility in a few mins when I find it.

But imo, sexuality isn't really established at that age. But by the time you would have been with one of these men for many years, you would probably have an inkling that something was not right. Maybe you might not have realised you were gay, but you probably would have had doubts. Again just my opinion.

Look, I'm not saying people are wrong to come out. Nor are people wrong to be transgender. Each to their own. But I do think that the sympathy lies with the "confused" person rather than with the poor fecker they happened to marry. If someone is 100% in love with their spouse, has no inkling they are gay/transgender then fair enough. But their spouse is still the one who is being screwed over imo. And to expect that spouse to suck it up and not to be hurt and angry? Not fair at all. Because what they thought they had is gone. Everything they thought about their life and their world is gone.

And here are some saying they shouldn't leave, they should accept it or even sympathise with the person who (intentionally or not) has turned their world upside down?

There isn't enough sympathy imo for the person left standing there, scratching their head going "wtf just happened to my life"? It's all about the confusion the other person suffered, the turmoil they endured, the guilt they feel.....well hold on a minute but there is some poor fecker left with the kids trying to make sense of it all. Doubting her judgement, doubting her sexuality, doubting every moment of her relationship. And she is expected to just go "oh poor x...." and perhaps even stay in the relationship even though their husband is now a woman?

this type of revelation blows many lives apart and all too often the focus is on the person who essentially lit the fuse and not enough focus is on the devestation left in their wake. Whether intentional or not.

Links234

ash23 wrote: »

And to expect that spouse to suck it up and not to be hurt and angry?

but I am not saying that!

ash23 wrote: »

There isn't enough sympathy imo for the person left standing there, scratching their head going "wtf just happened to my life"?

that's the whole point of me starting this thread.

did I not say in the opening post:

but, for me, I'm actually pretty happy that I'm single, because I can't help feeling that it's unfair to marry someone and keep that kind of secret from them. it's like, I won't even date anyone right now, because in the past it's been horribly awkward and when I don't want to have sex, a girl can't help but think there's something wrong with her, and that's just not fair on her. I know that a lot of women do come to terms with these things, but it's still a horrible strain on the relationship that if I was dating a woman right now, I really don't want to put her through that.

god knows I deeply want to get married and have kids some day, but I would want her to know the person she's getting involved with every step of the way, and I would want her to love me for who I am, not who she thinks I am.

baby and crumble

I don't think anyone in that situation would be wrong to not be hurt, confused, angry, bitter, of course not. I'm just saying, it's not always the case, as some posters have said, that it's selfish of the tg person to have been in a relationship with someone they loved, when they may not have had any clue about their tg'ness'.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that there as many shades of grey as there are hairs on my head, and to assume that all people who come out as gay whilst being in a serious straight relationship, or as transgendered after a long marriage have been lying to people for years, and doing some kind of clandestine cover up just to create the most damage, is ludicrous and arrogant.

There are any number of things that I may learn about myself as I get older. In 10 years I may decide to give up my career for a spiritual journey. I may fall in love with a man. I might suddenly discover a penchant for hardcore s&m. My point is, no-one knows the future, and who they will become or who they're meant to be.

If someone went into a relationship as male, took vows to love and honour his wife, and the settled and had children, all the while KNOWING that it was wrong, that this wasn't meant to be his life, perhaps not even loving the woman, then yes. That is wrong. Just like a person who may be suddenly confused about their sexuality at 40 is wrong to go and shag around with the same sex.

BUT I think it's wrong to assume all tg or late blooming gay people are compulsive liars and have been all their lives, that's all.

Malari

Links234 wrote: »

I didn't.

I said improbable, not impossible. Do you think that you are representative of a lot of people who are transgender? Is that why it often happens so late in life, after they have married and had kids?

I don't know any transgender people, but I would have imagined the realisation would be not unlike gay people, of whom I know several and all of whom knew at least in their teens that there was something different about how they felt. I find it hard to believe that there are many people who don't know anything until they are in their thirties and have had long term relationships and commitments.

I can't help but compare it to someone who decides to have children and then thinks "actually, having thought long and hard about this, I don't think I want children after all". The decision is made at that stage and you are affecting someone else's life so massively.

ash23

Links234 wrote: »

but I am not saying that!

Never said you did. Read back. My post was in response to a poster who said that the people saying they felt used were wrong basically. In turn I explained my position about the whole "feeling used" aspect and how I felt marrying someone while having doubts about it, be it gender, sexuality or just the depth of your feelings for them, it's selfish.

ash23

zoegh wrote: »

BUT I think it's wrong to assume all tg or late blooming gay people are compulsive liars and have been all their lives, that's all.

I doubt anyone said they were compulsive liars. I would struggle to believe that whatever a persons age, after being in a LTR with another person for many years, proceeding through with marriage and babies, that doubts wouldn't arise.
No more so than in a straight relationship where there were issues surrounding the depths of feelings. How many people progress with a wedding because they think it's the right thing to do. I'd argue just as vehemently that they are being slefish (and stupid) and fooling and decieving the other person. Imo anyone who thinks on their wedding day "am I doing the right thing" should not get married. Because if you have doubts then, air them and act on them before it's too late and you f up both peoples lives.

So for me it's not so much about TG or sexuality. It's about those niggling doubts and the number of people who ignore them. As a result when it all comes to a head the person who was oblivious is left feeling cheated, lied to and used. Simple as.

Ickle Magoo

This OP was about a boyfriend/husband turning out to be transgender and included stories of transitioning. I find it hard to believe that someone doesn't know they are trapped in the wrong body, to the point they want surgery to rectify the situation, long before the average age that a wife and kids are on the scene.

I can understand someone not realising they are gay if they have never been attracted to another woman and have been attracted to men or visa versa but I'm not sure how that situation works with people who are transgender, do they like who they are and feel absolutely fine about themselves & their body and only develop the feeling of being in the wrong body mid-life?

Links234

Malari wrote: »

I said improbable, not impossible. Do you think that you are representative of a lot of people who are transgender? Is that why it often happens so late in life, after they have married and had kids?

no I don't think I'm representative of anyone but myself, I just know that some transgender people know from a very early age, some don't know until much, much later in life.