Analogue Switchoff - Public Awareness & Help Scheme

The Cush

This from a Seanad statement by the Minister last week on the switchover campaign and assistance scheme

Turning now to broadcasting, I referred earlier to the forthcoming spectrum auction. This spectrum partly arises from Ireland’s national digital switch-over strategy which provides for the closure of the analogue television network before the end of 2012 and the release of the resultant spectrum with the benefits I alluded to earlier. I am keenly aware of the challenges this initiative brings, in particular for Irish households which are reliant on the analogue television network. All households reliant on the aerial television network will need to upgrade to digital television or they will lose access to television. To overcome the challenges that digital switch-over brings, we must also assist people with information and practical assistance to ensure that no one is left behind as Ireland goes digital. I will implement a substantial information campaign providing households with information on the digital switch-over and on their options for going digital. This information campaign will start shortly.

In conjunction with this, my Department is currently developing plans to address the particular needs of vulnerable households as they prepare to go digital. In this context, the expertise and local knowledge of the many voluntary and charity organisations around the country will be of critical importance to ensuring the success of the switch-over process. I have asked my Department to ensure that to the greatest possible extent these organisations play a major part in our information and assistance campaign.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/2011/10/05/00008.asp

Macy0161

Pat Kenny just said they'll be discussing ASO and options at some point today. I suspect it'll be after the 11am news, in the consumer slot.

evilivor

Pat Kenny just trailed an item for later on his show on the analogue switch-off and one's options.

championc

evilivor wrote: »

Pat Kenny just trailed an item for later on his show on the analogue switch-off and one's options.

On NOW

Macy0161

A bit disappointing really - got totally side tracked with the online content. The important stuff (for the age profile of his listeners) then had to be rushed.

The Cush

The ASO date(s) will be announced tomorrow (5:55 and 11:45 mins in on the podcast).

Joint announcement with DigitalUK for NI DSO dates?

Link to podcast of the discussion between Pat and Tina Leonard - http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2011/pc/pod-v-13101111m55stodaywithpatkenny-pid0-715320.mp3

Digital TV

Given that in just over a year analogue TV will have been switched off across Europe and have been replaced by digital TV, whatever method you choose to receive TV on your TV set you also have to consider what you may need to do to receive Irish free-to-air television.

(The Dept of Communications/Minister Pat Rabbite is launching an information campaign on the switchover and announcing the switchover date tomorrow.)

The switchover is prescribed by European law, with the deadline given as the end of 2012, but is also national policy. It is still free-to-air television, you’re just receiving it by different method and it will be a better quality signal, i.e. no interference and a better picture and sound. It allows for a more efficient use of the radio spectrum, freeing up use for broadband, TV and other communication services and also TV equipment manufacturers are concentrating on development of digital TVs and receivers; this is international.

RTE is absorbing the costs and is tasked with the responsibility of rolling out the service. Saorview is the name of the service and is owned and managed by RTE.

The new digital service will provide an expanded range of Irish TV channels, plus a full range of RTE Radio digital stations, an improved version of Aertel and access to an electronic programme guide. In other words you will be getting more.
Already 92% of the country is digital ready, so bear that in mind if you’re buying a new TV set or service now.

The following takes into account what you will have to do (if anything) to ensure you receive the digital service.

Getting TV via your TV set

Subscribe

The majority of Irish households (around 1 million) pay a monthly fee to receive a host of channels in addition to the free Irish channels.

For the basic package you’ll pay €23 with UPC and €25 with Sky. You won’t need to do anything with regard to the digital switchover.


Get free-to-air satellite

About 162,000 households receive their TV this way and it’s because you can get all the channels without paying a monthly subscription fee.

You can buy a satellite dish and also a freesat/freeview box and also use an aerial to get the free Irish channels. This means you will also need to buy a Saorview set-top box to decode the digital signal via the aerial.

But, if you moving to this method now you can buy a combination freesat / Saorview set-top box (approx €100) for use with your dish and aerial, or buy a combination box (over €300) for use without a dish or aerial.


Use an aerial

You can just use your aerial and then receive Irish TV and pay nothing. 600,000 households watch TV this way, with 335,000 receiving television exclusively through an aerial.

In order to keep watching TV this way you will need to buy a set top box (Saorview approved in recommended and listed on their website / saorview.ie) to receive the new digital service. The prices have already come down and range from €50 to €60 or you can get ones with record functions that are priced up to €100. Once you buy that there is no further payment, as before.
You might want to check your aerial just in case too. For example, if you are using an aerial only and currently don’t receive TV3 or TG4 you may have an old VHF aerial and you’ll need a UHF TV aerial (approx €150) or if you receive the others but not TV3 then your aerial may be pointing in the wrong direction and will need to be moved to point towards the best transmission site for your area.

Remember each television set will need to decode the signal coming from the aerial, which means that each TV will require a set top box.

o The majority of people using aerial only are over 55 in rural areas. If you have an elderly friend or relative, perhaps living alone, make sure they are all set.
o If you are planning on buying a new TV now buy an integrated digital television (iDTV) that is Mpeg 4 compatible. These have a built in decoder so you won’t need to buy a set top box.
o Be aware that UK ‘freeview’ boxes and iDTVs will not decode the Saorview service.
o Saorview has a list of approved products on their website at www.saorview.ie and look out for the Saorview logo. This guarantees that they are 100% compatible with the Saorview service.
o Beware door-to-door callers trying to sell you something relating to the digital switchover that you may not need.


http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/2011-10-13.html

evilivor

Macy0161 wrote: »

A bit disappointing really - got totally side tracked with the online content. The important stuff (for the age profile of his listeners) then had to be rushed.

I agree - they should have pushed the Saorview content first then covered the online options - it's a pity it got a bit rushed as you could hear Pat was quite well briefed on the subject.

If you know the subject you would have been a bit frustrated - if you knew nothing about it - you would have been bewildered.

The Cush

evilivor wrote: »

it's a pity it got a bit rushed as you could hear Pat was quite well briefed on the subject.

Except for the bit about DTT overspill reception from Wales and NI.

The Cush

Analogue TV will close on October 24 2012 in conjunction with NI.

Information campaign to start next week fronted by Gay Byrne.

Web - www.goingdigital.ie
LoCall helpline - 1890 940 980 (English) and 1890 940 970 (Irish)
Twitter - http://twitter.com/#!/tvswitchireland
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/TVSwitchIreland

MINISTER RABBITTE ANNOUNCES DATE FOR DIGITAL TV SWITCHOVER
Dublin 14 October 2011

GAY BYRNE CONFIRMED AS FACE OF CAMPAIGN

Minister for Communications, Energy & Natural Resources, Pat Rabbitte T.D. today announced Wednesday 24th October, 2012 as the official date of completion of the digital TV switchover, when the analogue TV network in Ireland will be switched off.

SAORVIEW – Ireland’s new national digital TV network, launched nationally by RTẾ in May this year – will replace the analogue TV network when it is switched off just over one year from now. Both networks will operate in parallel until then. The analogue TV network will also be turned off in Northern Ireland on 24th October 2012, Digital UK announced today, in order to make the transition to digital as straightforward as possible for TV viewers and broadcasters.

Minister Rabbitte said, “The availability of digital television and the switching off of the analogue TV network in a year’s time is a very positive thing for Ireland and will offer TV viewers a number of additional benefits, such as clearer picture and sound quality, more TV channels, radio channels, information services and high definition TV. Importantly, digital TV also uses less space in the broadcast spectrum band which means that Ireland will join many other countries throughout Europe and the rest of the world in freeing up space for other purposes, such as the provision of mobile or broadband services.“

Anyone who currently relies on an aerial to watch TV - approximately 250,000 households across Ireland - will need to take action before 24th October 2012 to retain access to TV services. TV viewers have a number of options available to them. They can connect to the SAORVIEW service which is a one-off cost and, like the old TV network, has no subscription fee or recurring charges. In most cases the purchase of a set-top box will enable connection to SAORVIEW. Details on SAORVIEW are available at www.saorview.ie or LoCall 1890 222 012.

Alternatively, TV viewers can choose to move to a pay-TV service, such as Sky, UPC or a cable or broadband service provider. Those subscribing to a pay TV service will not be affected by the switching off of the analogue TV network. Information on pay TV service providers is available on the Department’s website, www.goingdigital.ie.

The Department of Communications, Energy & Natural Resources is providing guidance to the public though a new website, www.goingdigital.ie, a LoCall helpline 1890 940 980 and the distribution of 100,000 free information booklets which will be available in post offices and Citizen Information Centres throughout the country from next week.

Minister Rabbitte said, “It is Important that we help people, particularly the 23% of people still unaware of the Digital TV Switchover, to understand what it is, its many benefits, when it is happening and where they can go for guidance. Our campaign will focus, in particular, on ensuring that the 250,000 households across the country who are reliant on the analogue TV service get the message. We are confident that our communications campaign will help us do this. We will also be engaging with community groups, voluntary organisations and charities throughout the country.”

The Minister was joined at the launch by iconic broadcaster, Gay Byrne who will feature in the Department’s innovative advertising campaign for the Digital Switchover which will debut on Irish TV screens this evening. Gay will play a key role in helping The Department of Communications, Energy & Natural Resources to communicate the message that the analogue TV signal will be switched off on 24th October 2012 and that people have many places to go for guidance and inform themselves on what they need to do.

Minister Rabbitte said, “We are delighted to have Gay Byrne involved in our communications campaign and we could not have chosen a more appropriate personality to support our campaign. Gay is synonymous with the development of Irish TV over the years and is arguably the most recognisable face and voice in the country. It is important that people feel reassured that the transition to digital TV is not a complicated one and represents the next advancement in the evolution of TV in Ireland and throughout the world and Gay’s involvement will help bring people along with us”.

Guidance on the Digital Switchover is available at www.goingdigital.ie, through LoCall 1890 940 980 (English language) and 1890 940 970 (Irish language) and through information booklets which will be available in post offices and Citizen Information Centres throughout the country from next week. The campaign also has its own Facebook page, www.facebook.com/tvswitchireland, and Twitter account, http://twitter.com/tvswitchireland.

Ends/

Notes to Editor:

The latest research from Millward Brown Lansdowne (Millward Brown Lansdowne Digital Switchover Benchmark Study, September 2011) shows that some 77% of Irish people are aware of the Digital Switchover, 23% (mostly over-55 years of age) are still not aware that the analogue TV network will be switched off in late 2012.
For further information:

Press office DCENR,

Enda Gallagher/John Twomey

T: (01) 6782418

E: press.office@dcenr.gov.ie

BespokeWithDirection

Neil O’Gorman/Deirdre Hynds T: (01) 6651950

E: neil.ogorman@bespokewithdirection.ie / Deirdre.hynds@bespokewithdirection.ie

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/MINISTER+RABBITTE+ANNOUNCES+DATE+FOR+DIGITAL+TV+SWITCHOVER.htm

Analogue TV network switch off in October 2012
Friday, 14 October 2011

It has been announced the analogue television network in Ireland is to be switched off in just over a year's time.

The new national digital television network, Saorview, replaces the analogue service when it is switched off on 24 October 2012.

If households that currently receive their television signal via an aerial do not switch to digital they will lose Irish television services when the analogue network is switched off

Minister for Communications Pat Rabbitte announced the date, which is the same as Northern Ireland.

The Minister said the move to digital is a positive one that will offer viewers clearer picture and better sound quality.

He said it would also offer more channels and free up space on the broadcast spectrum for other purposes including mobile and broadband services.

Around 250,000 households currently rely on analogue to watch TV.

An awareness campaign about the switchover is to get under way next week.

For more information about Saorview go to www.saorview.ie, Aertel page 650 or lo call 1890 222 012.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1014/dtt.html

Morning Ireland podcast - http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2011/pc/pod-v-1410112ndhour34m16smorningireland-pid0-2056776.mp3 (12:44 mins in)
Reports on the RTÉ One, Six-One and Nine news programmes - http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1014/dtt.html#video
TV3 5.30 News report - http://www.tv3.ie/news.php?request=&tv3_preview=&video=41169

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/analogue-tv-switchoff-date-set-2906427.html
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/24041-irelands-digital-tv/
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/govt-to-announce-date-of-digital-tv-switchover-524360.html
http://www.thejournal.ie/date-set-for-digital-tv-switchover-heres-what-you-need-to-know-253541-Oct2011/
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1014/breaking9.html

Sat 15th Oct newspaper reports
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1015/1224305837847.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/government-to-net-euro180m-from-digital-tv-switch-2907072.html
http://www.examiner.ie/archives/2011/1015/ireland/end-is-near-for-analogue-tv-but-23-unaware-of-switch-off-170781.html


This from the DigitalUK press release regarding to ASO in the Republic of Ireland

Analogue signals will also be turned off in the Republic of Ireland on 24 October 2012, the Government of Ireland announced today, in order to make the transition to digital as straightforward as possible for TV viewers and the broadcasters.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/69685/10-14-11_ni_date_announcement.pdf

evilivor

Minister will be on Morning Ireland talking about ASO presently.

Sam Russell

Minister Rabbitte was talking about how the launch of Saorview next year will replace the analogue TV service, with extra channels, including a kids channel and HD.

What did he do at Montose on the 26th of May this year only launch the Saorview service? The extra channels launched on 29th October 2010. (Well most of then did, the TV3 ones took a feww days to get going!)

Q: Why do we need yet another launch of Saorview? Ans: Because RTE Execs are ingnoring the last two.

Even the news report uses the future tense when talking about Saorview. It has been broadcasting in MPEG 4 since Aug 2008 from 3Rock and CC, and longer if you include the BT trials in MPEG2. It was launched 29th Oct 2010, and OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED on 26th May 2011. Today, we have the third launch of the service, and I presume the 24th October 2012 will have another launch.

The Cush

http://www.goingdigital.ie/ website now online

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz3Dz2WPv5s

Antenna

The Cush wrote: »

Analogue TV will close on October 24 2012 in conjunction with NI.

It is daft using the same date for the WHOLE of the republic .

Why not start with switching off areas of the country (such as Dublin/Three Rock transmitter) where Saorview 100% matches analogue coverage and for a number of reasons is going to have least technical difficulty + border areas.

An advantage of switching off areas of the republic in stages is that lessons be learnt from problems that might arise - such as from elderly people with difficulty etc and the experience used in the next area. Especially considering there is no trial switch-off anywhere in the republic before that date.

Many areas in the south and west of the country have analogue but cannot get Saorview. Saorsat is an expensive option and there is little experience of the technology in this country so far (dish size for rain fade margins etc) and requires more specialist installation than regular satellite. I think many would suggest analogue continue a bit longer in areas of the country where Saorsat is the only free digital option for many people (provided the spectrum is not needed for anything else). Could someone for example give a quote for installation of Saorsat in a typical house with say 3 TVs?

Its all so much easier in Northern Ireland where no-one in rural areas has to fork out money for expensive solutions, and there is so much more got in return for going digital (several worthwhile extra channels)

galtee boy

I think many would suggest analogue continue a bit longer in areas of the country where Saorsat is the only free digital option for many people

I think if you start doing that, these areas will really be put on the long finger and could well be left on analogue for years ! I would hazard a guess and say that anyone living in these remote places, have long ago been forced to go down the SKY route for coverage of the Irish terrestrials anyway. I know they are entitled to Saorview too, but how many houses need to be in an area to justify the cost of putting up a local relay for them ? Saorsat in supposed to be the answer to this problem and I presume Saorsat will be well tested and up and running well before 24th October 2012 ? By the way, if they can get a decent analogue signal from somewhere now, why can't that same transmitter/relay give them Saorview ?

BionicRasher

Heard a report this morning on RTE radio where the reporter said that the analogue switch off date was announced for 24th Oct 2012 and he then went on to state that if you want to continue receiving RTE TV and Irish channels you need to sign up to a paid TV service such as Sky or UPC. He finally advised that you could purchase some ‘equipment’ to enable you to receive Saorview through an aerial
Beggars belief that RTE is not trying to push people into getting sorted with regular FTA rather than advising they pay Sky and UPC for the Irish channels. Or does it mean that they will get paid more by Sky and UPC if there are more people on those platforms and hence RTE don’t have to spend as much maintaining the regular FTA

Was on RTE 2FM or RTE Radio 1 8.30am news I think – I will try to post a link if I can find it

MarkK

Antenna wrote: »

An advantage of switching off areas of the republic in stages is that lessons be learnt from problems that might arise - such as from elderly people with difficulty etc and the experience used in the next area. Especially considering there is no trial switch-off anywhere in the republic before that date.

We are late to the party when it comes to analogue switch off, I don't see that there are any lessons left to be learned that we should not be able to glean from looking at other switchovers around europe.
There is no action to be taken on the switchover date, 'retunes' should not be necessary except in border areas.

Antenna wrote: »

Its all so much easier in Northern Ireland where no-one in rural areas has to fork out money for expensive solutions, and there is so much more got in return for going digital (several worthwhile extra channels)

It will be much cheaper for many, but it's not all so much easier, Northern DTT viewers using smaller transmitters will have no DTT at all until 10 October next year, then they have to spend two weeks switching between Digital for BBC2 and analogue for UTV & Channel 4, before needing to retune to get the rest of their channels on digital.

MarkK

galtee boy wrote: »

By the way, if they can get a decent analogue signal from somewhere now, why can't that same transmitter/relay give them Saorview ?

The number of transmitters is dropping from over 150 to 51:

"The RTÉNL national analogue TV network (old TV network) serves 98% of the population from over 150 transmission sites and RTÉ has advised that the same percentage of the population will receive DTT services from 51 sites. "
http://www.goingdigital.ie/Industry/Frequency+Planning/

Enda Murphy

I have a very bad feeling about this, I think on the morning of 25/10/12 thousands of older and simpler folks will be left with a blank screen.

sesswhat

Enda Murphy wrote: »

I have a very bad feeling about this, I think on the morning of 25/10/12 thousands of older and simpler folks will be left with a blank screen.

It may come as a surprise to some, but for many older people, this would represent an inconvenience rather than an emergency.

Sam Russell

We have , as far as I know, all the DTT we are going to get, up and running, now. Mux 1 has been running for years on some transmitters, and on most since October last year. Mux 2 is running on nearly all transmitters now. We could have planned the ASO for Oct 2011, but as usual, we needed a few more disappointments. RTE, accordig to their schedule published in the press, do not have a DTT service with extra channels. That will not start for another year. The news reports speak about Saorview in the future - not an existing service covering 97% of the population.

RTE should plan to turn off the main transmitters first, so that the panic will be dealt with in the higher populated areas first. Then schedule the smaller relays over coming months. Maybe start with 3Rock, as many people served by it are on UPC and Sky.

Nobody beleives these things until they have already happened.

Peter Rhea

Sam Russell wrote: »

RTE should plan to turn off the main transmitters first, so that the panic will be dealt with in the higher populated areas first. Then schedule the smaller relays over coming months.

If these relays are fed off-air, they won't fare so well without their parent transmitters.

Sam Russell

Peter Rhea wrote: »

If these relays are fed off-air, they won't fare so well without their parent transmitters.

True, but I think they are fed by fibre.

rlogue

Sam Russell wrote: »

RTE should plan to turn off the main transmitters first, so that the panic will be dealt with in the higher populated areas first. Then schedule the smaller relays over coming months. Maybe start with 3Rock, as many people served by it are on UPC and Sky.

Nobody beleives these things until they have already happened.

The ASO plan for Northern Ireland was at the time I worked at BBC Technology based on the switch off of all NI analogue transmitters on the same day. I would now expect all ROI and NI analogue transmitters to be switched off on the 24th October 2012, not in dribs and drabs.

Peter Rhea

Sam Russell wrote: »

True, but I think they are fed by fibre.

I suppose any that aren't primarily dependent on another site's broadcasts should be referred to as 'secondary' or 'fill-in' (or just 'smaller') rather than 'relay' transmitters .

Antenna

Peter Rhea wrote: »

If these relays are fed off-air, they won't fare so well without their parent transmitters.

It would be just a matter of modulating these analogue relays from either satellite or Saorview receivers
.
This was already done at many analogue relays in the past couple of years during works at Mullaghanish etc - many relays relayed RTE1/2/Tg4 from Sky during times of outages/low power from the parent transmitter

The Cush

tui0hcg wrote: »

Heard a report this morning on RTE radio where the reporter said that the analogue switch off date was announced for 24th Oct 2012 and he then went on to state that if you want to continue receiving RTE TV and Irish channels you need to sign up to a paid TV service such as Sky or UPC. He finally advised that you could purchase some ‘equipment’ to enable you to receive Saorview through an aerial
Beggars belief that RTE is not trying to push people into getting sorted with regular FTA rather than advising they pay Sky and UPC for the Irish channels. Or does it mean that they will get paid more by Sky and UPC if there are more people on those platforms and hence RTE don’t have to spend as much maintaining the regular FTA

The analogue switchoff information campaign is being run and paid for by the Dept of Communications and not by RTÉ. Because state funds are being used to pay for the campaign the information cannot be biased towards any one platform and must provide information on all alternative platforms. The consumer then makes the final decision on which platform they decide to use be it FTA or pay.

The spending of state funds is governed by European competition law and there have been cases in the courts in relation to state subsidies for DTT.

Sky have previously commented on this in a Dept of Communications consultation, see my post here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74531150&postcount=68

The Cush

Enda Murphy wrote: »

I have a very bad feeling about this, I think on the morning of 25/10/12 thousands of older and simpler folks will be left with a blank screen.

The blank screens will be on the 24th, switchover to date in the UK starts just after midnight on the published date. Shouldn't be any different here.

glineli

Disappointing to hear the minister when asked about a STB this morning by Ivan Yates on NewsTalk, does the STB give you RTE, BBC, UTV etc, he replied yes.

The Cush

rlogue wrote: »

The ASO plan for Northern Ireland was at the time I worked at BBC Technology based on the switch off of all NI analogue transmitters on the same day. I would now expect all ROI and NI analogue transmitters to be switched off on the 24th October 2012, not in dribs and drabs.

I agree, they'll all go together. This would avoid any conflicts or interference and allow all transmitters to adopt their final channels and powers.

Denis Wolinski, the now DigitalUK NI Switchover Manager and the then head of Ofcom NI, said in a 2009 House of Commons committee discussion on television broadcasting in NI that switchover in NI would probably take place on 1 day.

The same is happening with the recently announced Tyne Tees region DSO dates, all 3 main transmitters and their relays will switchover on the same day.

The Cush

glineli wrote: »

Disappointing to hear the minister when asked about a STB this morning by Ivan Yates on NewsTalk, does the STB give you RTE, BBC, UTV etc, he replied yes.

Asking a Minister who lives in an urban area, whose family are probably Sky or UPC subscribers a specific technical question like that and receiving that answer doesn't surprise or disappoint me. That's not his job.

I've heard similar or worse answers from so called technical experts/journalists on the airwaves over the last few years.

ardmacha

The analogue switchoff information campaign is being run and paid for by the Dept of Communications and not by RTÉ. Because state funds are being used to pay for the campaign the information cannot be biased towards any one platform and must provide information on all alternative platforms. The consumer then makes the final decision on which platform they decide to use be it FTA or pay.

This policy is nonsense. This is a technical change. The message should simply be the technical one that analogue is being turned off and that you need either a converter or a new TV to get the replacement digital signal. Talk of platforms and pay services is simply confusing the issue and is a waste of public money.

There may be some complications in a small number of local areas, but the simple national message should be that you need a converter or modern TV and the local areas should be dealt with by local media and direct campaigns.

The Cush

ardmacha wrote: »

This policy is nonsense. This is a technical change. The message should simply be the technical one that analogue is being turned off and that you need either a converter or a new TV to get the replacement digital signal. Talk of platforms and pay services is simply confusing the issue and is a waste of public money.

The law can be an ass.

John mac

he's on the Last word this evening..

Donahg

John mac wrote: »

he's on the Last word this evening..

He didnt know his arse from his fingers, He could not answer when Matt cooper asked him why analogue has to be switched off

Antenna

ardmacha wrote: »

This policy is nonsense. This is a technical change. The message should simply be the technical one that analogue is being turned off and that you need either a converter or a new TV to get the replacement digital signal. Talk of platforms and pay services is simply confusing the issue and is a waste of public money.

But you could then have confusion with viewers of analogue cable. Most cable homes in Dublin would have analogue cable on at least one of their TVs. So you have to emphasize this relates to terrestrial platform. They (cable viewers using analogue) do not have to spend money on an alternative for the time being.

lawhec

Switch off in the Republic on one day is definitely doable, but it will not be without at least some headaches as there will be someone at least who will wonder where the heck their three or four channels have gone! RTÉNL has an advantage over its northern brethren in that its digital broadcasts are already on high powers and transmitting from all planned sites right now - other than some modest post-DSO power increases all that will have to be done at the relevant sites is flick the switches off (though there may be some scope for frequency rearrangement). North of the border will be seeing flash-cuts, retuning, power increases, first time DVB-T reception all happening fairly quickly.

icdg

Donahg wrote: »

He didnt know his arse from his fingers, He could not answer when Matt cooper asked him why analogue has to be switched off

No one can answer that really. If we were going to do something with the spectrum then all well and good, but I cannot imagine that a spectrum auction will raise a lot of money in the middle of a recession. There isn't a whole pile of benefits to viewers either given the very slim service that's been offered on Saorview, really just one new channel (3e) and three more almost wholly comprised of simulcasts and same-day repeats.

Again the promise and the benefits of DTT won't be realised in the jurisdiction because of the way its been handled over the past thirteen years since the NERA/Smith report that recommended its introduction. We are getting a DTT platform that is a pale shadow of what it could have been and what other countries in Europe are getting.

Anyways, decision's been taken now and we're going with it. Goingdigital.ie is rather garish and isn't the best laid out website, although it is platform neutral which helps. I think 12 months is too short for the scale of the task up ahead, the UK took thirteen years to transition to digital, I'm not sure takeup of Saorview in that short a team is realistic.

Cantona's Collars

One good point was made during the interview on The Last Word,the minister stated that the GAA was brought on board and local clubs were going to be part of the info campaign which is a good idea seeing as GAA clubs tend to be focal points in many communities.Getting people together and explaining Saorview in plain simple language can only be a good thing.

The Cush

Govt to provide no funding for people to switch to digital TV
Friday, October 14, 2011 - 02:42 PM

There will be no extra funding provided for people making the switch to digital TV.

The Communications Minister Pat Rabbitte announced the switch from analogue to Saorview will happen on October 24, 2012.

People who do not already pay for their TV services through Sky or UPC for example will need to get a Saorview box for a once-off fee.

The Department of Communications has teamed up with voluntary organisations to help isolated and vulnerable people to make the switch.


Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/govt-to-provide-no-funding-for-people-to-switch-to-digital-tv-524442.html#ixzz1anKF6e46

The above article from the Irish Examiner online indicates there will no funding to assist people to switchover to digital, presumably referring to the general public. The Minister indicated last month that an assistance scheme would be put in place for vulnerable households .

In conjunction with this, my Department is currently working to address the particular information and assistance needs of vulnerable households as they prepare to go digital. In this context, the expertise and local knowledge of the many voluntary and charity organisations around the country could be of critical importance in ensuring the success of the switchover process. I have asked my Department to ensure that, to the greatest possible extent, these organisations play a major part in our information and assistance campaign.

Mayo Exile

Will UHF retransmission/deflector sites that provide reception of UK channels also have to cease transmission on 24 October 2012? Following on from this, will current legislation that allows no renewal of deflector licenses after 31 December 2012 be amended to comply with the new ASO date?

The Cush

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Will UHF retransmission/deflector sites that provide reception of UK channels also have to cease transmission on 24 October 2012? Following on from this, will current legislation that allows no renewal of deflector licenses after 31 December 2012 be amended to comply with the new ASO date?

Wouldn't think so to both.

Provided there is no interference to DTT services they should be able to continue until their licences expire at the end of Dec 2012. There could have been a problem if we had 6 muxes in operation.

Mayo Exile

The Cush wrote: »

Wouldn't think so to both.

Provided there is no interference to DTT services they should be able to continue until their licences expire at the end of Dec 2012. There could have been a problem if we had 6 muxes in operation.

Interesting anomaly though. Analogue output from RTENL sites will end before similar transmissions from sites deemed to be illegal for many years of their existence!

Kristopherus

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Interesting anomaly though. Analogue output from RTENL sites will end before similar transmissions from sites deemed to be illegal for many years of their existence!

But then, this is Ireland.:rolleyes:

byte

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Will UHF retransmission/deflector sites that provide reception of UK channels also have to cease transmission on 24 October 2012? Following on from this, will current legislation that allows no renewal of deflector licenses after 31 December 2012 be amended to comply with the new ASO date?

Dunno if they'd have to, but I'd imagine many will. Otherwise, those in charge will have to add STB's and modulators to accomodate for the straight off-air analogue signals being gone (make no difference to those who may use satellite as source signals I suppose, though I wouldn't call those deflectors as such). Doubtful for many I'd imagine to do that, what with Freesat and FTA satellite services able to fill the void.

Irish Steve

Just been browsing the thread, and what's been very conspicuous by it's total absence from the discussion is the problem that will be faced by people in places like Ashbourne (and many other towns around the Leinster area) that have an old, out of the ark stone age VHF based repeater cable system that is operated by UPC, having been inherited from Chorus, who over time and history took it over from what was (I think) Ashbourne Relays (or similar companies) that set up a cable repeater system for their town or area based on a very well placed aerial that could get an acceptable UK signal from Wales or Northern Ireland).

The Ashbourne service has been in place for over 20 years, and hasn't changed significantly other than to add a few extra channels in that time, and at this stage, that is part of the problem, in that replacing the existing network with Fibre to enable the roll out of a new style UPC type service with broadband, phone and all the other things that technically are now possible is in no way going to happen in time for the switch off of analog, and I've seen no plans or proposals from UPC that even hint at the possible replacement of their cable systems, they are being ignored as far as any investment is concerned, the only area that seems to be getting any upgrading is the old NTL (Cablelink) system in Dublin.
.

At this stage the local service is a dire service, very unreliable, and if the truth be known I suspect that a significant number of it's users have migrated long since to Sky through desperation at the failure of UPC to do anything about the poor quality and lack of future development potential. What makes it worse is that it's in total contrast to the fibre upgrade that's happening in Dublin, which seems to be way better than anything on offer from competitive suppliers.

There are several issues. The first is that I've seen nothing whatsover from UPC in the press or local media to tell users of this dire system that it's future is at risk, the present system uses VHF band signals to redistribute about 15 channels, some of which now arrive in Ashbourne via the UPC MMDS link, and some of which are captured at the local head end from Sky.

From experience, (Very short due to how bad it was) a modern HDMI capable TV, even with a VHF tuner, has huge problems with the system, partly because the band tuning is not as tight as it should be, so modern tuners don't find them, partly because UPC use some channels that are outside the recognised Cable band, and partly because they have a strange scrambling system for Sky sports that puts spurious harmonics all over the band. Things like reliable teletext, wide screen, Dolby Digital sound and HD are but a dream. There are other issues, like tuners that drop off channel on a regular basis, and all sorts of other issues, some of which are caused by illegal taps into the network.

The main concern I would have is that nothing has been said anywhere about the choices that these cable users will have in less than 12 months. Things like video recorders are not going to work with DTT, but many people in this area don't have HDD recorders because they don't work reliably with cable. In a lot of cases, they don't have an external aerial of any sort, and on apartment blocks, that IS going to be a significant issue.

Even a sky box can be a problem, in that the pass through VHF modulator is not designed to work with cable, so many of the UPC channels are badly affected quality wise if they are passed through a Sky box. I suspect that the same issue may arise with Saorview boxes if they even have a pass through modulator on them.

All in all, it's a (typical) Irish mess, and one that seems to have been quietly ignored, as to make too much noise about it at this stage might upset the cosy cartels that have these things under control. For sure, Sky have made a fortune in this area by aggressively selling their packages door to door, and it has been noticable that they have been very active in recent times around here, probably because they know that UPC have lost the plot locally.

Even the few Saorview adverts I've seen, and the brief piece on the late news a few minutes ago are not making any mention of what people in places like Ashbourne are supposed to do, and I would be concerned that a lot of people will get royally ripped off because they will be told "you need a really good aerial to get Saorview, that's why cable was originally put in", and if the advertising does not make it clear that these claims are total rubbish, there is a strong chance that these sorts of claims will not be challenged for the rubbish that they are, the signal from 3 Rock is very strong here, so no high masts or multiple aerial arrays as were seen in the bad old days are needed, but because a few are still around, there will be people out there that will try to make a fast buck out of misinformation.

So, what does the future hold for UPC users in places like Ashbourne. Time will tell. For sure it will be messy, if only because there are no local companies that are involved with Aerials and the like, and because of the lack of clear and specific information about the implications of the changes.

Steve

Peter Rhea

Irish Steve wrote: »

. . . because of the lack of clear and specific information about the implications of the changes.

The 'changes' are in the terrestrial broadcast network, what exactly are you getting at here with respect to this cable system?

Its inadequacies are nothing to do with RTENL/Saorview.

Solair

With the correct antennae setup, one would assume that a MPEG2/4 (i.e. FreeView HD) box should be able to pick up SaorView and FreeView in border areas in much the same way as a PAL TV could pick up the 4 Irish and 5 UK channels?

Worst case scenario people in these areas might need two boxes, but with a bit of clever antenna / filtering setup you should be able to combine the two feeds get all the MUXes through the same device, assuming they don't overlap frequencies.

From what I gather the FreeView signal is likely to be easier to pick up when transmitters are at full power after the PAL switch off in 2012 in NI.

Or, am I missing something?

The Cush

The reason for no discussion regarding analogue cable on this thread is because this is a discussion on terrestrial analogue switchoff via the aerial and private commercial analogue cable systems are not directly affected by ASO.

Cable systems are run by private commercial companies who are not affected by the ITU requirement to switchoff terrestrial analogue services by mid June 2015.

There is nothing preventing cable subscribers going the Saorview/Freesat route now or at terrestrial ASO if there're not happy with their provider's service. Ashbourne appears to have OK Saorview coverage according to the coverage checker.

Maybe your concerns have been discussed over in the cable forum.

UPC are the only people that can resolve your problems.

Solair

I think there's going to be a LOT of confusion, particularly amongst elderly people. I already know someone who was complaining because she plugged a SaorView box which she purchased into the "ariel" which turned out to be a UPC connection.

She didn't know what UPC or "cable" was and just pays X per year for her "piped television".

It's those people who are going to be rather befuddled by the whole thing.

Maybe Age Action Ireland or someone like that should seek volunteers to help older folk figure it all out?
It'd be a shame to see people lose their TV service entirely due to a minor technical change.

The Cush

Solair wrote: »

I think there's going to be a LOT of confusion, particularly amongst elderly people. I already know someone who was complaining because she plugged a SaorView box which she purchased into the "ariel" which turned out to be a UPC connection

into the "ariel", that's one confused person alright.

Sorry, couldn't resist