Not getting dole - or being lied to?

pnag

Hi folks,

This is an odd one, but I'm looking for input.

A close friend of mine has been in a relationship for years. The other party (not a close friend, indeed, not a friend to (m)any?) came down with an unspecified condition about 2 1/2 years ago, and was sacked. (I kind of got the impression they quit, but I could be wrong). Multiple trips to the doctor and tests revealed nothing. As best as I could see, the condition manifested itself in a closing of the eyes and wincing for a few seconds, and then they could continue whatever it was they were doing before. In the end, it was described as being "like XYZ disease, but not?" where XYZ is an easily testable condition.

If it seems I'm dubious, to be honest, I am. And no, I'm not a doctor. To explain further...

My friend has paid for everything since the date of unemployment; light, heating, food, rent (there are only two of them in a house close to Dublin, so rent is expensive!) - while the sick partner still has an active social life, pub, nights out, trips away etc. In all this time, apparently only 2 weeks dole could be claimed for?!? As they're not together long enough, there's no possibility of 'common law' entering the picture either.

The excuses - had no photo ID. After pressure was applied, got photo ID - and now the claim is there's a bureaucratic backlog and the government simply won't give it. Apparently backdating only allows for a max claim of 3 months? too

I'm no expert in this, but I think it stinks. Yes, to be completely fair I am biased in favour of my friend (who doesn't seem to see any of this at all) and have said nothing, but am I just being unreasonable?

Surely they should have been able to claim *something* by now?

MIRMIR82

Hi Pnag,

I would say you are correct- partner probably walked out of job - therefore not entitled to dole. But surely after a certain amount of time he would have to get something - you can't live on nothing.

Anyway Pnag TBH i think you are worrying about this for nothing, if your friend is willing to put up with this (friend knows real truth), then more fool them. I know its very frustrating to see a friend being used but there isn't a whole pile you can do really.

pnag

You're right - I just wish their eyes could be opened. My friend is a decent person who deserves so much better.

Worst part is, I really do think they believe it!

Can anyone shed any light on the claim side of things though? The 'non-claimer' is adamant they can't claim because of screw-ups, but it's been years now!

Welease

Your friend probably won't thank you for causing issues if you lumber in with both feet, and start throwing accusations..

If you feel strongly enough about this, then do in on the pretence that you are concerned for her, and would like to help her get what she is due,in fact you are outraged that she is being treated in this manner .. Book some time with cizitens advice, and social welfare and get her to come along.. if she keep refusing, your mate will work it out..

Suggest she should also do a financial plan for social welfare, you can mention the nights out etc. when doing this.. if she is not receiving money elsewhere, it will be pretty difficult to account for all this expenditure.

pnag

Welease wrote: »

Your friend probably won't thank you for causing issues if you lumber in with both feet, and start throwing accusations.

I haven't said a thing, and am not going to; ultimately, I do view it as their business, I'm just very concerned.

I suppose I should have just posted asking about the dole side of things. Does anyone know what the eligibility of claiming is? I do know you can't if you walked out of a job?

Welease

pnag wrote: »

I haven't said a thing, and am not going to; ultimately, I do view it as their business, I'm just very concerned.

I suppose I should have just posted asking about the dole side of things. Does anyone know what the eligibility of claiming is? I do know you can't if you walked out of a job?

Report the post and ask a mod to move it across to the Social Welfare forum.. you should get some good input there.

pnag

Thanks, will do.

Zamboni

He is full of it.

Tell him he is a bum and tell your friend to cop on.

oscarBravo

Moved from Irish Economy.

pnag

Thanks for that oscarBravo - had just reported my own post, such speedy service is appreciated!

To get back on topic, does anyone know why someone can be refused dole other than walking out of a job?

munstergirl

You can walk out of job and claim dole but have to wait 9 weeks.

JSB benefit is based on number of stamps paid prsi.

JSA is means tested and if gf is earning too much partner gets nothing.

If someone does not bother to sign on when they do its not backdated.

Also JSA you must be available for work so if he is sick he has to apply for disability.

You do need to bring 2 forms of id to sign on, so when he went maybe he only brought one.

He needs to grow up and look after himself + gf is not helping by supporting him. If he signed on + got nothing thats a different story.

pnag

Thanks for that.

Yeah, seems like they're just being lazy?

It's also interesting that I've not suppled the gender, but everyone's assuming it's the male partner! Could be, but best I say nothing.

monkeypants

I wasn't asked for photo ID at any stage, just my PPS number, which I have on a card. Maybe they aren't admitting that they're on the dole because the partner's income would then be considered/reported. Maybe he's working cash in hand.

pnag

Monkeypants, can I ask when that was? (When you signed on, if it's not too personal a question!)

Cheers!

monkeypants

Not at all!

I first went into the office in King's Inn Street in September of last year. I should have gone in a few weeks previously, but the information that I'd been provided by the Welfare folks suggested that I needed my P45 to claim and it turns out that I didn't. Lost about three weeks then as they wouldn't backdate it, but I then appealed it and won.

I've only had to deal with them three times since then (every three months, in January, April and June) and all I've had to show them is the PPS card that I received about 19 years ago.

From my experience, they never ask you for what you brought along and always ask for what you didn't. When first claiming, I had printed out and filled in two sets of forms. They then asked me to fill out two more with the exact same information. Now I'm moving from JB to JA I've been asked to fill out these forms again, even though the information remains the same. Including my appeal, they've now been provided with everything relevant seven times. When I handed in my last set of forms as requested, I offered other paperwork in support, bank statements, that kind of thing. I was told it wasn't needed. Later that day the office calls and asks me to bring in...guess what...a bank statement. Two days later I received copies of the two forms that I've already sent in, but I've been told to ignore them.

I've also never been asked to provide proof of searching for a job.

pnag

Thanks for that - you're very good!

MIRMIR82

Pnag

Please let us know how things work out:)

Gang of Gin

pnag wrote: »

You're right - I just wish their eyes could be opened. My friend is a decent person who deserves so much better.

Worst part is, I really do think they believe it!

Can anyone shed any light on the claim side of things though? The 'non-claimer' is adamant they can't claim because of screw-ups, but it's been years now!

I think if they deem you've walked out of a job you may have to wait 3-6 weeks for a payment. I'm not sure about that though.

monkeypants

From what I recall last year, it's up to nine weeks that you can be disqualified for and they inevitably give you all nine weeks. However, if there are reasons behind you leaving other than just taking the hump some morning, you can appeal. If you win, you'll get a backdated payment in a number of weeks.

Balagan

pnag wrote: »

You're right - I just wish their eyes could be opened. My friend is a decent person who deserves so much better.

Worst part is, I really do think they believe it!

Can anyone shed any light on the claim side of things though? The 'non-claimer' is adamant they can't claim because of screw-ups, but it's been years now!

Wide range or reasons for people holding off from claiming benefits.

There are people who cannot face going through the processess necessary to claim benefits. Usually, these people are badly affected by huge emotional upset and blow to self esteem caused by loss of employment, accident, illness etc. It is also a daunting process for people with basic literacy issues,dyslexia and other such struggles. Those who have no choice i.e., those who have nobody to support them financially, mostly eventually manage to face benefits processing , often with encouragement of friends/family who will accompany them to the SW office to chat during waiting time, help with paperwork etc. Sometimes organizations such as the St Vincent de Paul help people access their benefits.

Some people have lost main upfront job but may have earnings from extra work for which they didn't pay tax, or have other sources of undeclared income which will show up when they have to produce bank statements for means testing, are crippled by worry about how to sort that out. They are, for the main part, sortable in discussions with Social Welfare.

Others reluctant to access benefits include some who may have left a marriage and are avoiding child support payments, those who may have money outstanding to Revenue, Social Welfare etc., and those who are lying low because of events in their past which causes them to want to avoid coming to the attention of the authorities.

Annasopra

Could be a case of blepharospasm?

Gang of Gin

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Could be a case of blepharospasm?

That had crossed my mind. A case of the ol dry eye.

Annasopra

Gang of Gin wrote: »

That had crossed my mind. A case of the ol dry eye.

I never heard of it til I read this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jul/31/candia-mcwilliam-second-sight-blindness

Gang of Gin

Johnnymcg wrote: »

I never heard of it til I read this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jul/31/candia-mcwilliam-second-sight-blindness

Interesting. I'd say she didn't keep those lids open long enough in 2006(or the rest of the judges); in an almost random process of handing the booker prize to Kirin Desai.

Balagan

Could of course be a simple matter of the unemployed person having applied for JA resulting in decision that he/she does not qualify for payment due to level of salary of partner.

OmeGar

the other issue is that if the partner is sick, and is not available and looking for work they would not be entiled to JSA.

In this case they could apply for Illness benefit/Disability allowance.

IB requires a number of Stamps, if your friends partner was working, i would assume that they would meet the stamps requirement, however if it has gone on for awhile, then the stamps may be from outside the Year that is taken into account (2008).

If they don't qualify for IB, they might be entitled to DA, however if the illness is not known, or not a long term illness there may be no entitlement. Also DA is a means Tested payment, and if the couple are treated as a Co-habiting couple, well then your friends means would be taken into account and the Ill person might have no entitlement.

I read your post wondering if i knew the couple in Question as it is quiet similar to a case invloving a friend of mine, but well thats someone else business.