Friday 13th "I almost died" thread

Lumen

OK, so I don't usually do this, but...

This morning I narrowly avoided a fairly serious accident.

I approached this roundabout from the west, going straight across the roundabout to the second exit. I chose a road position (rhs of left lane) and speed (~30kph) to avoid giving any impression that I might be leaving at the first exit.

Two cars were approaching from the left. One stopped. The other one didn't.

I was watching both cars and ready for this, braked hard and the car passed by my front wheel a couple of metres.

Had I not anticipated, I would have been t-boned by a car doing maybe 30kph. I'm not sure what the consequences would be, but it wouldn't be nice. My lovely Ti frameset could have been seriously damaged.

I can only assume the driver didn't see me, despite it being broad daylight, good conditions, perfect visibility of the roundabout, no other traffic, and me wearing a brightish jersey.

The other driver pulled alongside and made a nice comment about how insane the incident was and to check I was OK.

I'm completely used to reacting to normal bad driving, but it's quite unusual for it to be quite so blatant and life threatening.

The point of posting this is not to draw attention to my anticipation skills, nor seek any "glad you're OK" posts, but just to highlight the need for accomodating other peoples driving mistakes even when they seem completely incomprehensible.

Or perhaps I'm just doing it wrong. Maybe I should start commuting more often in my Kaiku kit, for the hi-vis effect.

TinyExplosions

Were you wearing a helmet? If so it was undoubtedly this that saved your life, not your reactions...

Hurrah for Fridays!

DirkVoodoo

Glad you didn't make an awful mess.

I was talking to aidan about this on the way home last night, I've had a few incidents on the leopardstown roundabout recently where I am in the correct lane, and clearly indicating for an exit. As I approach the exit I'm obviously no longer running in a circular path, but twice I have had cars so eager to get onto the roundabout that they start moving before I have cleared the roundabout and nearly taken my back wheel off.

I had another one on Bakers corner, heading from Kill avenue onto kill lane. I obviously have the right of way as I pass through the junction, but this young woman in a suped up POS (I think it was a Civic, how original!) coming from Rochestown ave was merging onto Kill lane (where this silver car is in the image:



She initially yielded, looked at me, then kept going. I was maybe 6 feet away from her car at this stage and she wasn't stopping. As I passed the car she was within 4 feet and still moving, I started to brake out of sheer terror but she kept going. Before nearly knocking me down I started doing what I usually do in such situations, shouting and waving. She just shrugged as if "I couldn't give a crap" and kept going.

It's really terrifying when you see this. I can understand someone actually making a mistake, but some of the driving I see is so reckless and carefree it's actually scary.

tawfeeredux

Lumen wrote: »

... just to highlight the need for accomodating other peoples driving mistakes even when they seem completely incomprehensible.

That's become my default approach to my cycle commute. I assume there's a strong possibility that a car is going to ignore the fact that I've right of way on the roundabout (too many near misses like yours in the last couple of years), that a car is going to pull out beyond the Stop line when I'm cycling past on the main road, that they're going to turn left across my path without indicating, etc.

PS. Glad your lovely Ti frameset is Ok:). And yourself obviously.

doozerie

As far as roundabouts in particular are concerned, the rules in Ireland are treated very much like a pick'n'mix - people choose the ones that suit them at that moment in time and their choice next time round might differ entirely based on their mood. Some people even opt to spit in a few of the options that they don't like, and yielding to traffic seems to bear the brunt of that most - second only to actually using indicators as the most frequently ignored activity on roundabouts (and that's before you even get into using the indicators *correctly*).

At the other end of the scale entirely, I was cycling through Rathmines yesterday evening when a car driver seemed to be having trouble getting her car to move. She ended up blocking a long queue of cars and also the cycle track. I was second in line on the cycle track, there was a woman on a bike ahead of me. A couple of cars started beeping and I must admit that I was thinking myself that the situation was a bit annoying, but the woman on the bike ahead of me turned round to the cars and waved at them to quieten down. She said something like "can't you see [the car driver] is having trouble, just calm down", and right enough the woman driving the car put her hazard lights on, cut the engine and climbed out. She looked at the front of her car and said something about something being broken. The woman on the bike climbed off and asked how she could help, as the car drivers and cyclists behind just overtook and headed off with no more than an (annoyed) glance at the driver. I'd have stopped myself to help out if I didn't have to get to the creche in a hurry. I was very impressed with the woman on the bike though - she saw someone in trouble and was willing to inconvenience herself to help out, even if it meant facing down the exaggerated ire of those around her (and peoples' frustrations really were exaggerated - they were delayed by 30 seconds at most I reckon). Incidents like Lumen's one above are all too common and can leave you despairing about peoples' lack of concern generally for (the safety of) others so it's good to see the better side of human nature sometimes.

Captain Havoc

Sounds exactley like what happened me last winter, my reactions managed to stop me getting t-boned but I still got hit by the side of the car. Car stopped/ slowed going into roundabout, thought I had all clear then muppet continues. It only takes one muppet to turn you into worm food.

Glad you're OK and you've got awesome anticipation and reaction skills

Raam

I had one yesterday evening, descending through Howth Village.
As I passed the church I could see a car on the left wanting to join the main road down. People familiar with the village will know that people joining from the road on the left have to look over their shoulder and back up the hill so they can see what is coming. Of course, the driver did no such thing and pulled right out in front of me. Spider senses had been tingling since way back so I was ready for it. Always be very careful going through the village.

mloc123

Years ago when I was learning to drive my instructor told me that driving was all about looking out for other peoples mistakes, cycling is the same.... I always presume people will do the most idiotic thing possible.

droidus

Big roundabouts are lethal. I was nearly killed on one several years ago when I was T-boned by a van. I remember staring into the eyes of the driver for what seemed like forever as she entered the roundabout and rammed me. 11am on a late summers day. ( I think Ive recounted the story previously so I wont revisit it here).

ThisRegard

@Lumen, if it helps I've had similar incidences when in the car at that roundabout, never had the misfortune to cycle through it yet. I think because it's so open people assume when they can't see a car or other motor vehicle that they can just sail on through.

joker77

Glad to hear you're ok, that's the main thing.

I got hit on a roundabout by a car coming from the left a few years ago, luckily she was going pretty slow by the time she hit me, so all I got was a buckled wheel and a few scrapes.

Some roundabouts seem to be worse than others - Leopardstown for example is fairly hairy on a bike because of the speed people approach it in a car. Walkinstown on the other hand, even though it has such a bad rep - I've never had a problem with, because people go slow.

mtbireland

Part of the problem is they dont' expect bikes to be going so fast... in most cases I know I'll be going around a roundabout faster than most cars... you just have to always expect some numpty is going to pull out thinking he has the time to.

Caroline_ie

That's the Exact same roundabout where I got hit by a cab who was entering the roundabout last year.

I hate this roudabout, people go crazy fast on it and the massive roundabout signs also hide the view for cars.

Caroline_ie

mtbireland wrote: »

Part of the problem is they dont' expect bikes to be going so fast

That also what the cab who hit him last year said to me ... after he hit me ...

Ryder

two things are needed to survive.....anticipation skills and acceleration

i think you need to be aware that drivers are dreaming/talking/listening to the radio/texting and will make mistakes. you always need to be ready. i found a big thing was to watch for breaks in long lines of stationery traffic - usually means someone from the other lane is going to cut accross you without looking for cyclists.

when things do go wrong, it helps to be fit* so you can move out of trouble


*im sure this wont always work

buffalo

Good anticipation Lumen!

I'd nearly forgotten about being hit on a roundabout a couple of years ago - taking the right hand exit (3 o'clock), and someone came in from the 12 o'clock as I was making my exit (after indicating). At the last moment I realised what was going to happen, and lifted my left leg to get it out of the way of the bumper (pure instinct). He slammed on the brakes at the last moment, but my foot still made contact with his bonnet, knocking me to the ground. His first words when he got out of the car?

"I stopped just in time".

"Are you alright" was not the first thought to his mind. Then his passenger who said he was a doctor insisted on checking me out/feeling me up.

irishmotorist

Lumen wrote: »

The point of posting this is ... just to highlight the need for accomodating other peoples driving mistakes even when they seem completely incomprehensible..

I totally agree with you. Particularly when approaching junctions, I ride very defensively. If I'm on the straight and have right of way, I won't assume right of way until I see a driver see me. I've even slowed down to nearly stopping when I gauge that a driver isn't aware of me if he's coming out of a side road. If he doesn't know I'm there, an assumption may be made on his part. And I prefer keeping my ass exactly where it is!

Robertd_07

Lumen wrote: »

I approached this roundabout

I live near that roundabout. It's nuts, one of the worst roundabout I've come accross in Dublin (the worst is the walkinstown one). Every time I go through it I'm amazed I've not been in a crash, for the same reasons as you've noted above, and that's when I'm in a big blue car. Bizzarely, the left lane heading away from Blanch towards Coolmine is a left turn only lane, which is unusual on roundabouts. I consider myself lucky as I don't need to use it on my commute.

blorg

mtbireland wrote: »

Part of the problem is they dont' expect bikes to be going so fast... in most cases I know I'll be going around a roundabout faster than most cars... you just have to always expect some numpty is going to pull out thinking he has the time to.

There is that, but some drivers just have a sort of mental blind spot for bikes and don't see them... I think they "see" them in a sense but it just doesn't register upstairs.

Other drivers just expect a cyclist to yield to a motor vehicle in all circumstances, even if the cyclist clearly has priority (top of Earlsfort Terrace turning onto Adelaide road is a good one- yield sign on Adelaide road is routinely ignored by drivers.)

oflahero

buffalo wrote: »

feeling me up.

So, not all bad eh...

I used to brave the Leopardstown roundabout as part of the commute for a few years, but some mornings I really wasn't feeling pumped enough for it and just walked the bike across via the paths. Acute sense of near death every time, you really need to be up for it.

By the way, does anybody cycle the N7 or N4 roundabouts (junction with the M50) lately, given the fancy flow-friendly layouts they have now? Lovely in a car but murder on a bike I'm thinking, there's at least one point on each when travelling E->W or W->E where you can't avoid ending up in a right-hand lane.

Or are there easily-accessible bike paths through both? The N81 has one of these but you practically need a treasure map to find it.

manwithaplan

I cycled the N3/M50 fancy new junction heading towards town recently. Not for the faint-hearted but speed on the bike is your friend, as is a good idea of where the various lanes are going to deposit you. It was a Sunday morning which, oddly enough, probably made it worse as everyone was bombing along.

DirkVoodoo

I went out the N4 for the first time the other day. Nice bus lane with the "bus/bike 24hrs a day sign" which was nice and reassuring. Unfortunately where it meets the M50 the bus lane just stop...dead...and I was left to hug what remained of the hard shoulder while negotiating a pretty loopy and fast road.

Still, it was better than going through Ballyfermot or wherever I was, really weird cycle path system that goes in some odd places, covered in glass, etc.

tawfeeredux

oflahero wrote: »

By the way, does anybody cycle the N7 or N4 roundabouts (junction with the M50) lately, given the fancy flow-friendly layouts they have now? Lovely in a car but murder on a bike I'm thinking, there's at least one point on each when travelling E->W or W->E where you can't avoid ending up in a right-hand lane.

Or are there easily-accessible bike paths through both? The N81 has one of these but you practically need a treasure map to find it.

On the N4 junction, there's a pedestrian/cycle path bridge over the M50. if you're heading towards the city, you'll see a cycle path on the left hand side, just as you go past the pedestrian bridge over the N4 to Liffey Valley. You'll end up coming into Palmerstown & then you get back on the N4.

On the way back out though, if you want to get back onto that bridge, you have to turn right into Palmerstown crossing over a few lanes of the dualcarriageway, which can be a nightmare when there's a lot of traffic typically going well over the 80kph speed limit.

There's something similar for the N7 junction, but it goes through the Luas car-park.

tawfeeredux

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Still, it was better than going through Ballyfermot or wherever I was, really weird cycle path system that goes in some odd places, covered in glass, etc.

I used to commute through Ballyfermot, and the bike path used to remind me of a crazy-golf course, all ups & downs, mad turns that you had to judge the best angle to get through, random holes all over the place. Glass, kids, prams, bus stops in the cycle path. Great fun, but i eventually tired of it & took an alternative route that was 3kms longer but less obstacle laden.

ThisRegard

blorg wrote: »

Other drivers just expect a cyclist to yield to a motor vehicle in all circumstances, even if the cyclist clearly has priority (top of Earlsfort Terrace turning onto Adelaide road is a good one- yield sign on Adelaide road is routinely ignored by drivers.)

Absolutely ! A similar one I come across regularly is coming into Blanchardstown Village at the junction at the Bell pub. If you're a cyclist heading straight into the village with a green light at this junction, traffic coming from the village side wanting to go to your left towards Castleknock will always pull right infront of you or edge right into the middle of the road so you have to swerve around them.

tomasrojo

tawfeeredux wrote: »

I used to commute through Ballyfermot, and the bike path used to remind me of a crazy-golf course, all ups & downs, mad turns that you had to judge the best angle to get through, random holes all over the place. Glass, kids, prams, bus stops in the cycle path. Great fun, but i eventually tired of it & took an alternative route that was 3kms longer but less obstacle laden.

I walked through Ballyfermot recently and was watching the cycle tracks as I went along. Really odd stuff.

As for diversions, I also often go a longer way to avoid stressful or hazardous stretches of roads. I'd definitely avoid large roundabouts wherever possible. A few extra kilometres to avoid Russian Roulette seems a small price.

My father is a retired civil engineer and worked on more than a few roads in his time. He has a high opinion of roundabouts as a way of regulating flows of low to moderately heavy traffic. One of the few things I disagree with him about, for reasons that are clear from reading this thread.

To be fair, single-lane roundabouts are ok. Mini roundabouts are just weird. Do any motorists actually follow the circuit, as opposed to driving straight over the middle?

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

There is that, but some drivers just have a sort of mental blind spot for bikes and don't see them... I think they "see" them in a sense but it just doesn't register upstairs.

Other drivers just expect a cyclist to yield to a motor vehicle in all circumstances, even if the cyclist clearly has priority (top of Earlsfort Terrace turning onto Adelaide road is a good one- yield sign on Adelaide road is routinely ignored by drivers.)

I often look the motorist in the eyes and quickly point in the direction I'm travelling, even if I'm continuing straight ahead, to let motorists know that I'm not yielding and to make sure they've seen me. It seems to work, but I could be imagining it. I guess it's not applicable if you're going at a good speed, as you probably should have both hands on the brakes.

buffalo

tomasrojo wrote: »

Mini roundabouts are just weird. Do any motorists actually follow the circuit, as opposed to driving straight over the middle?

Some do, some don't. I always treat them as T-junctions, because it's the safest option.

Doctor Bob

buffalo wrote: »

Some do, some don't. I always treat them as T-junctions, because it's the safest option.

If you're coming from the equivalent of the side road on a mini-roundabout, treating it like a T-junction makes sense, but if you're approaching on the equivalent of the main road, isn't that what causes so many near misses? You should be yielding to traffic from your right, not presuming right of way.

I live just off Strand Road in Sandymount, so I probably see more than my fair share of dodgy mini-roundabout behaviour, chief among which is drivers on the 'straight ahead' alignment not yielding to traffic from the right.

rp

tomasrojo wrote: »

My father is a retired civil engineer and worked on more than a few roads in his time. He has a high opinion of roundabouts as a way of regulating flows of low to moderately heavy traffic. One of the few things I disagree with him about, for reasons that are clear from reading this thread.

I'd agree with you dad on this, but it does require that people know how to use a roundabout: what they are is an opportunity to do what's called in German driver training a "zipper", which means you slow down and give someone space to enter the roundabout ahead of you, and the traffic zips up nicely.

This is great for a cyclist as the traffic is slower and you are expected to merge. Many if not most motorists treat roundabouts as multiple t-junctions and wait for the r'about to be empty before entering - which is a catch 22 as it encourages people to enter the roundabout with as little loss of velocity as possible.

07Lapierre

Raam wrote: »

I had one yesterday evening, descending through Howth Village.
As I passed the church I could see a car on the left wanting to join the main road down. People familiar with the village will know that people joining from the road on the left have to look over their shoulder and back up the hill so they can see what is coming. Of course, the driver did no such thing and pulled right out in front of me. Spider senses had been tingling since way back so I was ready for it. Always be very careful going through the village.

You do know the speed limit in Howth Village is 30klm?. As a law abiding citizen myself, I'd never cyle down thru the village at 30+

07Lapierre

Ryder wrote: »

two things are needed to survive.....anticipation skills and acceleration

i think you need to be aware that drivers are dreaming/talking/listening to the radio/texting and will make mistakes. you always need to be ready. i found a big thing was to watch for breaks in long lines of stationery traffic - usually means someone from the other lane is going to cut accross you without looking for cyclists.

when things do go wrong, it helps to be fit* so you can move out of trouble


*im sure this wont always work

Geez How the Hell am i still alive?!!!

buffalo

Doctor Bob wrote: »

If you're coming from the equivalent of the side road on a mini-roundabout, treating it like a T-junction makes sense, but if you're approaching on the equivalent of the main road, isn't that what causes so many near misses? You should be yielding to traffic from your right, not presuming right of way.

I live just off Strand Road in Sandymount, so I probably see more than my fair share of dodgy mini-roundabout behaviour, chief among which is drivers on the 'straight ahead' alignment not yielding to traffic from the right.

Apologies, I had a particularly couple of mini-roundabouts that I always approach from the one side, which means I'm making a right turn. Really, I mean that I always yield.

Doctor Bob

buffalo wrote: »

Apologies, I had a particularly couple of mini-roundabouts that I always approach from the one side, which means I'm making a right turn. Really, I mean that I always yield.

Aah, I thought so!

poochiem

yeah I wondered about this - near where I work theres a mini roundabout and although I'm on the main road I always have to yield to traffic coming on from my left (to glares from the women going to collect their little ones in the school 20 yards away)...so for my own safety I always approach slowly but legally theyre wrong?

el tel

I almost died today while cycling along the Danube from Vienna to Durnstein (and back). From boredom

tomasrojo

poochiem wrote: »

yeah I wondered about this - near where I work theres a mini roundabout and although I'm on the main road I always have to yield to traffic coming on from my left (to glares from the women going to collect their little ones in the school 20 yards away)...so for my own safety I always approach slowly but legally theyre wrong?

It's a roundabout, so if you're already on it, approaching traffic should give way to you. But I wouldn't bet on approaching traffic knowing that.

sxt

If you are going through a roundabout, should you position yourself in dead centre of the lane?

blorg

sxt wrote: »

If you are going through a roundabout, should you position yourself in dead centre of the lane?

I would say, absolutely, yes, this is very important. Otherwise you will get people overtaking and swinging left to an exit. You will get that anyway (particularly on multi-lane roundabouts) but taking the lane is the minimum you should do. It is not as if bikes go much slower around roundabouts in any case.

FISMA

I learned early on in: life, business, sports, whatever, that I should prepare for whatever I am going to do, under the assumption that everyone, will scr€w every thing up, every time, always, and in all ways.

Since then, I have never been disappointed.:pac: But pleasantly surprised. :pac::pac:

Foreseeability, is a cyclist's #1 ally.

narwog81

as a skydiver and an (occasional) cyclist one lesson i brought from parachuting to cycling was "always assume everyone else is out to kill you"

i find this particularly applies when negotitiating roundabouts in galway city.....

snowblind

Some road solutions seem to invite more endearing, and dangerous to cyclists, driving behaviour. It seems that approaching a cornering scenario fills many with exhilaration and dangerous adrenaline levels in anticipation of the satisfying feeling or rebellion that you get from forces of tangential acceleration. Maybe it's the only time of the day for many when they truly feel alive, the rest of the day being mostly spent in front of spreadsheets and plasma tv's. The upsurge of adrenaline can cause something alike of tunnel vision, where the edge of the sight blurs excessively. As you can see, I'm basing this entirely on science so it must be true.

I have to commute through the Leopardstown roundabout every day, opting for the right hand lane going to work and left hand lane coming back. I find taking the right hand lane feels safer most of the time, as no one will suppose I would be exiting, and locates me mostly in the unblurred center of their vision just starting to vibrate from forbidden exhilaration.

Similar invitation to endearing driving happens after having exited the roundabout to go towards Beacon South Quarter. When the road divides, left lane turning left, right turning right towards the LUAS tracks, cars wil ALWAYS accelerate hard to beat a cyclist to the left turn, then slow down hard to turn, having already forgotten the cyclist (who will have to accomodate, wherever they are, possibly still on the inside) and fully engulfed by the satisfying forces of simultaneous slowing down force of the braking and the sideways acceleration of the cornering.

Oh yeah and then on the side road approaching work, there is this mini roundabout kind of solution. They have these SLOW 25 km/h signs all over the road, but becase a driver has a responsibility shared with their brethen to always pass any cyclist, many drivers will start audibly accelerating behind you approaching the miniroundabout, assuming that as a cyclist you will orient on the leftmost possible position on the road to let the driver pass you on the roundabout, as bikes obviously should as naturally inferior (no motor, a lot smaller) vehicles. They do this to gain the advantage of early arrival to their work 50 meters up the road.

Bunnyhopper

@Lumen You probably know this already, but the short one-way section on the Clonsilla Road was restored to two-way recently, which makes avoiding that roundabout a lot easier.

buzzingnoise

A considerable percentage of drivers do not simply know how to drive safely around a roundabout.

My observations as a cyclist on cork city roundabouts.
1.Boyracers use it as an opportunity to overtake other cars.
2.Young girls and elderly drivers always take the extreme left lane no matter what exit the intend to take.
3.Women with children in the back approach roundabouts too fast and break late. White lines mean nothing to them.
4.Taxi drivers just want to kill you.
5.And nobody indicates.

Cycle carefully.

On Thursday I was going to work before 8am along glasheen road towards the city. Before the junction by cissie youngs, a construction truck parked facing into traffic on the right pulls out on me, so late and close that he nearly decapitated me with his left mirror. I jumped up on the footpath, bashed into the wall and pulled the breaks. Next thing,within 100m of where he pulled out on me, the driver, without indicating again pulls into a space on the right, again facing into traffic. I rolled up to him and roared "did you not see me, you nearly f£&@?!g killed me!!" And what was his big knacker head response... I got the middle finger. Nice. I was so shocked I failed to get his numberplate, which I've regretted since. My heartrate didn't settle until lunchtime.

I cycle about 250-300km on an average week between commuting and training. These close encounters are unfortunately all too common on Irish roads. I see the same thing as a driver. People can be so inconsiderate and reckless. Whether it's deliberate or down to pure ignorance, this behaviour should not be tolerated.

Blowfish

blorg wrote: »

I would say, absolutely, yes, this is very important. Otherwise you will get people overtaking and swinging left to an exit. You will get that anyway (particularly on multi-lane roundabouts) but taking the lane is the minimum you should do. It is not as if bikes go much slower around roundabouts in any case.

Indeed, though I actually had the opposite happen to me on Monday. It was on a single lane roundabout and I was about 2/3 feet from the right hand edge of the lane when someone decided to actually overtake me on the left, just as I was signalling and about to swing left myself to take the exit. Had I not been paying attention and taken the exit, she definitely would have hit me, but thankfully I had the sense to just keep going around the roundabout and get it the next time around.

I also had a close one on Wed. It doesn't fall under the roundabout category, but definitely does fall under compensating for others idiocy. I was on Guild St. heading straight onto the Samuel Beckett bridge. Lights were green, no traffic in the same lane as me, pretty standard stuff really.

A moronic van driver heading the opposite way decided that the fact that turning right from the bridge onto the keys is forbidden could be ignored because it inconvenienced him too much, so proceeded to turn directly across my path right in front of me. If I had been a fraction of a second slower reacting I would have ploughed straight into him, as it was, with slamming on the brakes and swerving I ended up somehow just brushing the corner of the van as the f'er proceeded merrily on his way.

jwshooter

when on the roads be you on 4 wheels or 2 wheels ,think of every one else as a fu@king idiot .


you will not go far wrong .