Joe Hart - Manchester City's Number 1

Drumpot

me-skywalker wrote: »

If you cant see your web, then thats your problem. A bit of consistency would be nice, maybe your just taking example from City's form and behaviour.

Anyway think this thread has had enough verbal bashing. Sure we both agree that Hart is just as good as Given and is younger so has the potential and time to be better so its not a huge deal except for their handling of the situation and handling of palyers. Hoepfully Cunningham can see this and get out of "Dodge" asap!

Again, just curious . . So Statistics playing for a birmingham team happy to be just in the EPL is the same as playing for a team that expects CL footie ?

Fair enough . . We should bookmark this post aswell for end of season . .

Mr.Nice Guy

Mancini might care to note that a statistical comparison between Given's performances with Manchester City and Hart's with Birmingham City last season, given particular relevance by the fact that their workloads were almost identical (36 matches, 3,240 minutes and 42 goals conceded for Hart versus 35, 3,136 and 42 for Given), shows that the younger man made more saves (124 to 95), more punches (34 to 19) and more catches (69 to 33). He also dropped the ball only twice, to Given's five fumbles.

These stats are laughable. All this shows is that Hart was the busier keeper of the two which is unsurprising since City were a team chasing a top four spot while Birmingham were just promoted to the Premiership. The comment that 'their workloads were almost identical' is nonsensical. The only credible stat is the one regarding fumbles but to use that as proof that Hart is the better at crosses is stretching things to the max.

Apparently Joe Hart sneezed four times as compared to Given's seven. Ship him out pronto.

Drumpot

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

These stats are laughable. All this shows is that Hart was the busier keeper of the two which is unsurprising since City were a team chasing a top four spot while Birmingham were just promoted to the Premiership. The comment that 'their workloads were almost identical' is nonsensical. The only credible stat is the one regarding fumbles but to use that as proof that Hart is the better at crosses is stretching things to the max.

Apparently Joe Hart sneezed four times as compared to Given's seven. Ship him out pronto.

Darren Bent and Jermaine Defoe are the most sought after strikers ..

Oops . . Sorry their statistics suggested that they were just 2 of the top strikers in the EPL last season so I just assumed they were 2 of the best forwards in England and hence everybody would want them ?!!!:rolleyes:

I really hope that City run their club based on these kind of irrefutable Statistics ! !

Carcharodon

The way Man City is run is really taking the soul out of the club and is going to alienate itself from the rest of the league more so than Chelsea did.

It baffles me how they can not pick Given, a player that has the experience, ability and has done nothing to justify being dropped.

They treated Dunne so badly also and that backfired so badly, he was one of the best defenders last year, plus the fact he was always immense for City.

Bellamy is getting the cold shoulder after playing very well, same with Ireland and others too.

KittyeeTrix

Can't see anything to back up OP's claim

IvySlayer

Err...this just isn't true. Why would Shay leave it so late? Shay is Citys number 1.

Xavi6

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Can't see anything to back up OP's claim

How hard did you look?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1302910/Shay-Given-axed-Joe-Hart-Manchester-City-No-1--EXCLUSIVE.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

pickarooney

What are the chances Buffon is unveiled at the COMS next week and Hart finds himself in exactly the same position again?

Mister men

What a silly move by City.

redzerdrog

I think its actually a very good choice by city. On current ability/form they they are not a million miles away from eachother but hart has the potential to be great and citys/engerlands number 1 for the next 15 years.

given is a solid keeper but has his flaws aswell, but irish people way over rate him because he is irish

krankykitty

Remains to be seen how Joe Hart will do as City no 1, but personally I reckon it's Arsenal's gain if they decide to go for Given. I'd probably do better than Almunia or Fabianski myself if I brought my gloves along to a game

Smegball

I think Given is overrated aswell, for me its the sheer lack of conviction and organisation.

People are saying he's horrible at crosses is true, the man never comes out for a cross he would rather stay on his line the majority of the time hoping the defence can clear it or otherwise hope to make a reflex save.

Case in point one of Fletcher's goals in the 4-3 last season is one example off the top of my head.

Would still have kept Given this one last season over Hart though purely for experience.

Kess73

As for Mancini's decision to drop Given and go with Hart as the number one. I think it is the right move. Hart has shopwn enough in his career to date to suggest that he will be a top class goalkeeper and is already a good keeper.

TonyD79

Given to Villa and he would actualy have a decent defence infront of him thus avoiding looking over exposed aginst the likes of United. Cant belive some of the Citeh supporters on here preferring to stick with Hart ahead of Given..would have been like United fans wanting to dump Schmeichel back in the day.

Lukker-

TonyD79 wrote: »

Given to Villa and he would actualy have a decent defence infront of him thus avoiding looking over exposed aginst the likes of United. Cant belive some of the Citeh supporters on here preferring to stick with Hart ahead of Given..would have been like United fans wanting to dump Schmeichel back in the day.

Except Schmeichel could command his box..

niallo27

TonyD79 wrote: »

Given to Villa and he would actualy have a decent defence infront of him thus avoiding looking over exposed aginst the likes of United. Cant belive some of the Citeh supporters on here preferring to stick with Hart ahead of Given..would have been like United fans wanting to dump Schmeichel back in the day.

Do you not think that its a bit of a coincidence that every defense he plays behind look exposed and shakey

johnnyjb

Lukker- wrote: »

Smart by City tbh. Shay is a fantastic keeper and all but he's 34. Hart is English and could be at City for the next 15 years and is a tremendous talent.

No one will be at city in 15. They have no respect for any player, no club has respect for their employees but city are at the top of that list imho.I knew it was gonna be hart cause Macini is doing a clean out.

Given has 3 years top flight i reckon. Hart is good but is not truly tested. He should become a great keeper but its a gamble

ColeTrain

Given is the superior keeper. For all those who say Hart has the potential to be better, fair enough but Given is better right now, send Hart out on loan and let him continue to improve. Given is right to be annoyed at the decision, hopefully they send him on loan and Celtic come in for him, he's a big fan and would suit Celtic to a tee.

lordgoat

Beeb reporting Given to start:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8901397.stm

PHB

I think that Given is somewhat overrated but still a top quality keeper. However, I think City have made the right choice here. I'd have a lot of respect for them if they showed some humanity and let Given move where he wants for a reasonable price. Arsenal should take a punt on him

ctrl-alt-delete

Is there a definite source for this?

The BBC still have Given as starting ahead of Hart?

Kiwi_knock

Birmingham City fan here giving my opinion on the situation. As I am probably the only one who saw Hart in action every week last year, I feel I can comment on his abilities and the prospect of him being City's Number 1.

Hart is a confidence player, he needs the manager to believe in him and get a good run of games in the league. At Birmingham he did not have the pressure of a second keeper competing with him as Maik Taylor was only ever going to be there as back up. He certainly did not face the same pressure at Birmingham than he will face at City in the coming season. However what he needs is Mancini to trust in him if a few mistakes are made.

At the start of last season Hart did look a bit dodgy and there were a few fans looking for Taylor to be recalled but McLeish stuck with Hart and gave him the confidence to continue. Hart grew in confidence throughout the season, he certainly commanded his box a lot more fiercely than at the start. He was instrumental in our unbeaten run and was certainly one of our players of the year.

With regards to him being with an defence that is unfamiliar with itself and the problems therein. Of course there will be teething problems but that is the same with any defence getting to know each other. We had the same problem at Birmingham where we had two inexperienced cb and cb playing lb but eventually they gelled together. Hart was excellent at controlling the defence and when you saw him yelling at Stephen Carr, a great servant of the game, you know he had no fear of confronting any of his players. I think he will relish the opportunity of organising City's defence.

I certainly believe he is ready to face the challenges of a team challengingo for Top Honours. The progress he showed in the last year only further highlights how quick is development as come about. If I were a City I would feel confident with Hart in goal as he an excellent shot stopper and has a great command of his box and defence.

P.S: If he does have a bad run of form and City do decide to get rid of him, he will be gladly received back at Birmingham.

Muff_Daddy

niallo27 wrote: »

Do you not think that its a bit of a coincidence that every defense he plays behind look exposed and shakey

Ireland have always had a very good defensive record with Given between the sticks, so as far as I'm concerned this thing that Given can't organise a defence is a big crock. Just look back at the shambles that was the Staunton era. Hammered 5-2 by Cyprus, and conceeding that goal against San Marino without Given, and conceeding only 1 goal in two games against Germany with Given, who was particularly outstanding in the away match.

ColeTrain

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Ireland have always had a very good defensive record with Given between the sticks, so as far as I'm concerned this thing that Given can't organise a defence is a big crock. Just look back at the shambles that was the Staunton era. Hammered 5-2 by Cyprus, and conceeding that goal against San Marino without Given, and conceeding only 1 goal in two games against Germany with Given, who was particularly outstanding in the away match.

Agreed. What about the game in Cyrpus before the 5-2, Given saved a penalty and was outstanding.

Also, he had such a good defence in front of him at Newcastle. Ramage, Boumsong and Bramble FFS.

pablodunlop

Hart starting according to the bbc!

IvySlayer

lordgoat wrote: »

Beeb reporting Given to start:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8901397.stm

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Is there a definite source for this?

The BBC still have Given as starting ahead of Hart?

Jeff Stelling has spoken.

Hart starts.

niallo27

ColeTrain wrote: »

Agreed. What about the game in Cyrpus before the 5-2, Given saved a penalty and was outstanding.

Also, he had such a good defence in front of him at Newcastle. Ramage, Boumsong and Bramble FFS.

In fairness bramble hasnt looked too bad since he went to wigan

niallo27

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Ireland have always had a very good defensive record with Given between the sticks, so as far as I'm concerned this thing that Given can't organise a defence is a big crock. Just look back at the shambles that was the Staunton era. Hammered 5-2 by Cyprus, and conceeding that goal against San Marino without Given, and conceeding only 1 goal in two games against Germany with Given, who was particularly outstanding in the away match.

International games are totally different, most games are low scoring anyway, im not saying he is a bad keeper just saying he is not a great one

Drumpot

Joe Hart made a good save there . . A shot straight at him so I suppose his inclusion is justified . .

Hopefully Given can find a good quality team that appreciates his class .

The fans who think that performing well for Birmingham must also be desperate for the likes of Defoe and Bent who are also capable of performing for lower league clubs ?!

Overrated !!! Seriously, how can anybody say he is overrated ? Im still waiting for the list of keepers in the EPL that are proven to be better outside of 2 or 3 ! ! Oh, but sure if I am ignored I am sure it just means I am wrong ! ! :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

MementoMori wrote: »

Some interesting stats here



http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/aug/12/joe-hart-fabio-capello-england-no1

Eh, these stats aren't the right stats for this issue.

MisterAnarchy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I actually think this is part of it - the English thing. It's fair to say, even just looking at the inflated prices they go for in the transfer market, that English players are often overhyped.
It's part of the hype machine that promotes English players. I should say I do rate Milner and Given, the latter more than the former too, but I think the media makes them appear better than they are.

Not Often overhyped,but Always overhyped.
Almost every English international is overrated and overhyped,its always the same with the English media and public,they never learn

Augmerson

Carcharodon wrote: »

The way Man City is run is really taking the soul out of the club and is going to alienate itself from the rest of the league more so than Chelsea did.

It baffles me how they can not pick Given, a player that has the experience, ability and has done nothing to justify being dropped.

They treated Dunne so badly also and that backfired so badly, he was one of the best defenders last year, plus the fact he was always immense for City.

Bellamy is getting the cold shoulder after playing very well, same with Ireland and others too.

+1, well said, good post.

soma

Drumpot wrote: »

A keeper that couldnt get ahead of Rob Green and David James for England only 3 months ago is deserving of starting spot ahead of Shay Given (who England could only dream of at world Cup).

Bang on - this totally sums up the situation for me.

niallo27

Drumpot wrote: »

Joe Hart made a good save there . . A shot straight at him so I suppose his inclusion is justified . .

Hopefully Given can find a good quality team that appreciates his class .

The fans who think that performing well for Birmingham must also be desperate for the likes of Defoe and Bent who are also capable of performing for lower league clubs ?!

Overrated !!! Seriously, how can anybody say he is overrated ? Im still waiting for the list of keepers in the EPL that are proven to be better outside of 2 or 3 ! ! Oh, but sure if I am ignored I am sure it just means I am wrong ! ! :rolleyes:

reina, van der sar, chech, friedle and schwarzer, there is 5 anyway and if you watched the match you would have seen hart inclusion was justified

ctrl-alt-delete

niallo27 wrote: »

reina, van der sar, chech, friedle and schwarzer, there is 5 anyway and if you watched the match you would have seen hart inclusion was justified

He had a good game, even though there was a part of me hoping he would feck up!

He does need to work on his distribution though in my opinion.

SantryRed

soma wrote: »

Bang on - this totally sums up the situation for me.

Absolute rubbish. The only reason he didn't play was because Capello didn't have the balls to put him out there. Joe Hart is by far and away the best English goalkeeper at the moment. He is on par with Given at this moment in time and Hart is still young. He's going to improve a lot while Given isn't. Absolutely the correct decision by City to play Hart.

soma

SantryRed wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. The only reason he didn't play was because Capello didn't have the balls to put him out there. Joe Hart is by far and away the best English goalkeeper at the moment.

Hmm.. now whose opinion of the player do I rate more highly.. yours.. or a successful manager who had him in his training squad and made him third choice.

Boy, that's a tough one.

ColeTrain

niallo27 wrote: »

reina, van der sar, chech, friedle and schwarzer, there is 5 anyway and if you watched the match you would have seen hart inclusion was justified

The only keeper in Given's class there is Reina. Given has proven time and time again he is one of the best and most consistent in the Premiership. To say otherwise is delusional.

DOC09UNAM

ColeTrain wrote: »

The only keeper in Given's class there is Reina. Given has proven time and time again he is one of the best and most consistent in the Premiership. To say otherwise is delusional.

reina is dogshít compared to cech, VDS and friedel.

Carlos_Ray

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

reina is dogshít compared to cech, VDS and friedel.

What a ...strange opinion

ColeTrain

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

reina is dogshít compared to cech, VDS and friedel.

Cech has never been the same since the Hunt incident but to be fair has gradually improved.

VDS is not good enough for a club like Utd, Fulham was his level. Getting on now at 40.

Friedel is a good keeper but nothing more, never made it a big club and like VDS is pushing 40 now.

Fromvert

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

reina is dogshít compared to cech, VDS and friedel.

Where's Jazzy with his Derp of the day award?

Fromvert

SantryRed wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. The only reason he didn't play was because Capello didn't have the balls to put him out there. Joe Hart is by far and away the best English goalkeeper at the moment. He is on par with Given at this moment in time and Hart is still young. He's going to improve a lot while Given isn't. Absolutely the correct decision by City to play Hart.

This.

Carlos_Ray

SantryRed wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. The only reason he didn't play was because Capello didn't have the balls to put him out there. Joe Hart is by far and away the best English goalkeeper at the moment. He is on par with Given at this moment in time and Hart is still young. He's going to improve a lot while Given isn't. Absolutely the correct decision by City to play Hart.

He is on par with Given?? Has he played top flight football at a consistantly high level for the last 10 years?

Yes he had a good loan spell with Birmingham and a good game today. But Given had a great year with Man City, and regulary puts in top class performances for both club and country.

Given did not deserve to be dropped, and Stephen Ireland and Bellamy certainly don't deserve to be offloaded. Man Citys transfers and selection policy for the past two seasons are similar to that of a 12 year old playing football manager.

They'll fall short this season. Several players will submit transfer requests (because the club have made it quite clear that "loyalty" is not something they value.) Mancini will be sacked. Hart will become Englands number one ( and hyped as the BEST ever keeper in the history of the Universe) he'll make one high profile mistake and then be slaughtered by the media and fans. And so the circus that is Man City will continue.

niallo27

ColeTrain wrote: »

The only keeper in Given's class there is Reina. Given has proven time and time again he is one of the best and most consistent in the Premiership. To say otherwise is delusional.

Your entiltied to your opinion, it's wrong but your still entiltied to it, he is prone to making mistakes but then makes incredible saves and everyone forgets about his mistakes, I'm not saying he isn't a good keeper, just not a great one

greendom

I think Mancini has been wise here. Given didn't have the greatest of seasons last year especially compared to the brilliance of Hart with Birmingham.

Given has years of experience behind him and this is important for goalkeepers but Hart has well over a decade in front of him. He's the future. A brave decision but I think, the right one.

ColeTrain

niallo27 wrote: »

Your entiltied to your opinion, it's wrong but your still entiltied to it, he is prone to making mistakes but then makes incredible saves and everyone forgets about his mistakes, I'm not saying he isn't a good keeper, just not a great one

Fair enough. You're entitled to be wrong too may I add..

murpho999

ColeTrain wrote: »

Fair enough. You're entitled to be wrong too may I add..

Wow, a poster who not only knows that Given is a better keeper but also the difference between "your" and "you're", in shock!;)

Nozebleed

Lukker- wrote: »

Smart by City tbh. Shay is a fantastic keeper and all but he's 34. Hart is English and could be at City for the next 15 years and is a tremendous talent.

he wont be considered a tremendous talent when the ball dribble's past him when he's wearing the england shirt. only a matter of time before his confidence is shot. i look forward to the day!!

murpho999

niallo27 wrote: »

Your entiltied to your opinion, it's wrong but your still entiltied to it, he is prone to making mistakes but then makes incredible saves and everyone forgets about his mistakes, I'm not saying he isn't a good keeper, just not a great one

Isn't it a keepers job to make incredible saves? Isn't making incredible saves that distinguish great keepers from average ones?

Can you name me a keeper who has never made a mistake?

I can't remember Given being mistake prone like David James or Gomes a couple of seasons ago (although he has come good now!)