Joe Hart - Manchester City's Number 1

GLaDOS

Nozebleed wrote: »

he wont be considered a tremendous talent when the ball dribble's past him when he's wearing the england shirt. only a matter of time before his confidence is shot. i look forward to the day!!

...What?

Mr Alan

murpho999 wrote: »

Isn't it a keepers job to make incredible saves? Isn't making incredible saves that distinguish great keepers from average ones?

Not imo, its only one thing, all goal keepers in the PL are at a level where they can all make great saves. The ones who control their area with authority, have great concentration, excellent distribution and rarely are at fault for goals.

parker kent

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'll bookmark this for May. Just in case.

You were pretty confident last year too with Robinho and Adebayor etc. I remember you laughing at me saying Robinho would do a runner and Adebayor would fizzle out.

Carcharodon wrote: »

The way Man City is run is really taking the soul out of the club and is going to alienate itself from the rest of the league more so than Chelsea did.

It baffles me how they can not pick Given, a player that has the experience, ability and has done nothing to justify being dropped.

They treated Dunne so badly also and that backfired so badly, he was one of the best defenders last year, plus the fact he was always immense for City.

Bellamy is getting the cold shoulder after playing very well, same with Ireland and others too.

+1 This post pretty much sums up everything I was going to say. Hart played well today but they are taking a massive gamble. There cannot be no reward for playing well, it just makes a nonsense out of the normal way of building a team. What has Adam Johnson done to deserve being benched? Where are Milner and Ballotelli going to go? No logic is going into these massive splurges of spending.

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

Not imo, its only one thing, all goal keepers in the PL are at a level where they can all make great saves. The ones who control their area with authority, have great concentration, excellent distribution and rarely are at fault for goals.

I think concentration is a masive thing and becomes more important the higher up the league you go. Its a very difficult thing to have very little to do all game and then pull of a vital save in the last minute. Some would say more difficult than making save after save playing for a team thats under the kosh all game.

LuckyLloyd

One thing's for sure, even though Hart did well today the truth of whether this decision was correct or not won't be known until the end of the season.

Nozebleed

ScienceNerd wrote: »

...What?

what..what?

Xavi6

parker kent wrote: »

You were pretty confident last year too with Robinho and Adebayor etc. I remember you laughing at me saying Robinho would do a runner and Adebayor would fizzle out.

Was I? If you can find the posts then I'll hold my hands up. No shame in that.

However before you do, check Ade's goals per game ratio for last season compared to his Arsenal days.

Le King

This is a very intriguing choice. IMO, right now, Given is the better keeper. Hart has great potential and will definitely end up a great keeper but whether he would be a better choice now, or would end up as good as Given is, is difficult to say. Given has about five years left in him, while Hart has his career ahead of him. Given has been a proven keeper in the PL for 13 years now. Hart has had a solid season on loan with Birmingham.

Statistically speaking, Hart had a better year last year, but Given missed a few games with his shoulder injury, so maybe that's a bit unfair on Given.

Honestly, I think this is obviously the better decision for Man City in the future. But Given is better keeper right now. It's extremely harsh on Shay at this stage in his career but I'm sure he'll move on to bigger and better things as clubs like Arsenal would be crazy not to try and sign Given.

If it all works out:- Hart get's his chance, Arsenal get a goalkeeper, Given get's to play Champions League football and Man City have one of the hottest prospects, in his position, in the World in-between the sticks.

KittyeeTrix

Well Hart had a helluva game today for City:)

ColeTrain

Le King wrote: »

This is a very intriguing choice. IMO, right now, Given is the better keeper. Hart has great potential and will definitely end up a great keeper but whether he would be a better choice now, or would end up as good as Given is, is difficult to say. Given has about five years left in him, while Hart has his career ahead of him. Given has been a proven keeper in the PL for 13 years now. Hart has had a solid season on loan with Birmingham.

Statistically speaking, Hart had a better year last year, but Given missed a few games with his shoulder injury, so maybe that's a bit unfair on Given.

Honestly, I think this is obviously the better decision for Man City in the future. But Given is better keeper right now. It's extremely harsh on Shay at this stage in his career but I'm sure he'll move on to bigger and better things as clubs like Arsenal would be crazy not to try and sign Given.

If it all works out:- Hart get's his chance, Arsenal get a goalkeeper, Given get's to play Champions League football and Man City have one of the hottest prospects, in his position, in the World in-between the sticks.

Fair points there. But like Bellamy, ManCity will not want to sell Given to rival club like Arsenal. That's why I think there is a good chance Given, as a Celtic fan would go to Glasgow for the season instead of playing for the likes of Fulham.

Lukker-

Hart pretty much showing why he was picked today, single handedly kept City in the game.You can go on all you want about "loyalty" etc, but Mancini's decision is with City's best interests in mind.

Really hope Given gets to move on to another big club and that he gets a chance at the CL, god knows he deserves it.

TonyD79

ColeTrain wrote: »

Cech has never been the same since the Hunt incident but to be fair has gradually improved.

VDS is not good enough for a club like Utd, Fulham was his level. Getting on now at 40.

Friedel is a good keeper but nothing more, never made it a big club and like VDS is pushing 40 now.

LOL at the VDS comment. Reina is a top keeper and I wouldnt swap him for anyone. VDS career hasnt declined the way Schemical did towards the end . I would only take Buffon ahead of him now but obviously this may be his last season.

ColeTrain

TonyD79 wrote: »

LOL at the VDS comment. Reina is a top keeper and I wouldnt swap him for anyone. VDS career hasnt declined the way Schemical did towards the end . I would only take Buffon ahead of him now but obviously this may be his last season.

Lol at the Buffon comment, you wouldn't take Casillas ahead of him?

He was never in Schemicals league. Just because he hasn't declined doesn't mean he should be talked up as one of the best in the Premiership which is what I was responding to. Most keepers in the Premiership would look decent playing for United. He is a good keeper but nowhere near the elite.

baalthor

Lukker- wrote: »

Hart pretty much showing why he was picked today, single handedly kept City in the game.You can go on all you want about "loyalty" etc, but Mancini's decision is with City's best interests in mind.

Really hope Given gets to move on to another big club and that he gets a chance at the CL, god knows he deserves it.

If "loyalty" was a factor, Given would never have replaced Hart in the first place!

Hart was three years with City before Shay arrived; he has actually played (slightly) more games for City than Given.

yahoo_moe

Well Harry Redknapp seems to think that Given did more from the bench today than Hart did on the pitch:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8914605.stm wrote:

"All credit to Given," Redknapp told BBC Sport. "We were fantastic and created lots of chances but could not beat a great keeper who was in great form today."

Dempsey

Man City's behaviour with their good youth prospects and star performers is baffling but what they are doing with Joe Hart is absolutely the correct thing. He is not as good as Given and doesnt have the experience but he is as good as most keepers in the EPL and he has the potential to be the best.

Given was released from Celtic because an idiot called Lou Macari thought he wasnt tall enough for a goalkeeper and let his contract expire. Hart has massive potential, as much as Given when he was that age except he's taller and he'll get more consistent and less prone to mistakes as his experience increases. Only in the financial bubble that exist at Man City does it make sense to try and keep Given.

Mancini wants Given to stay because he wants to do rotation on the keepers, I dont think thats needed with keepers. Man City/Mancini are deluded if they think that two international no.1 goalkeepers would be happy in that arrangement. Manchester United play in all competitions and they dont try to juggle two international no.1's, they never really tried and neither does any other big club, its just too tricky and expensive.

Given is right to hand in a transfer request but whether Man City will accept it and allow him to a club that he prefers is another thing. I'd like to see Given move because he's our best goalkeeper and there is nobody near his level for Ireland. I'd love to see him go to a top club like Arsenal but I cant see Man City allowing it.

JohnnyRyan99

baalthor wrote: »

If "loyalty" was a factor, Given would never have replaced Hart in the first place!

Hart was three years with City before Shay arrived; he has actually played (slightly) more games for City than Given.

It was Hughes who brought in Given..... Not Mancini.

RichTea

I fully understand City opting to go with Joe Hart instead of Shay Given, even though I think Shay is still a slightly better goalkeeper than Hart. Of course an English team is going to want a young and talented English goalkeeper to start now and hold the jersey for years to come.

If anything, Shay Given could end up getting a better deal out of this. With Manchester City, the owners are always going to be looking for the 'superstar' names. If Shay wasn't replaced now he might have been replaced with someone like Buffon at the end of the season purely for prestige/marketing reasons.

If Given decides to leave now (and if he is allowed to; another matter entirely) then he can expect to start somewhere else. It's doubtful that City would allow him to join Arsenal, so it is difficult to predict where he will actually land should he leave the club.

Corben Dallas

I hope he carries thru his Transfer request. Given is one of teh top GK in the Premier League. I'd love to see him go to Arsenal (>>>> who need a top level keeper... have'nt had a good keeper since Lehman)

Given is way too good to be 2nd choice keeper anywhere. Plus he needs to be playing regular games.

Does Mancini have it in for Irish/welsh Players? The Dunne situation shows v poor judgement, plus when Stephen Ireland gets out of there the sooner Stephen can show just how good a player he is.

Given for Arsenal !!!

Xavi6

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Does Mancini have it in for Irish/welsh Players? The Dunne situation shows v poor judgement, plus when Stephen Ireland gets out of there the sooner Stephen can show just how good a player he is.

There's a slight problem with that - Mancini didn't take over as manager until four months after Dunne left.

Krusader

Hughes was in charge when Dunne went to Villa,
I reckon Mancini won't last the season at City

ctrl-alt-delete

Xavi6 wrote: »

There's a slight problem with that - Mancini didn't take over as manager until four months after Dunne left.

Yeah but he said he'd only become City manager if they got rid of him!

Everyone knows Mancini was boss even when Hughes was still there

Dave147

ColeTrain wrote: »

Lol at the Buffon comment, you wouldn't take Casillas ahead of him?

He was never in Schemicals league. Just because he hasn't declined doesn't mean he should be talked up as one of the best in the Premiership which is what I was responding to. Most keepers in the Premiership would look decent playing for United. He is a good keeper but nowhere near the elite.

Lol, have to laugh at Schemical.

As a Newcastle fan I obviously rate Given highly. However I don't think he's World Class but I think Hart should've been sent on loan for one more season and I think it would have been a much smoother transition for City.

Schmeichel was the best keeper the premier league ever saw.

DOC09UNAM

Fromvert wrote: »

Where's Jazzy with his Derp of the day award?

I take back what I said about Reina lads, he scored a great goal today, brilliant performance.

ziggy

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greendom

ziggy wrote: »

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Don't agree with this - unless Hart gets injured or has a severe dip in form Given won't get a look in. However hard he fights he's dependent on one of the above happening. He is showing some fighting spirit by wanting to play elsewhere rather than just collecting his pay check and warming the bench.

Neil3030

Anyone else think Joe Hart looks like Dawson?

Keano

ziggy wrote: »

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How can you really fight for your place as a goalkeeper?

You are not going to get 20 mins in most matches to prove you should be number 1.

ziggy

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karma_

ziggy wrote: »

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Given is much too good to sit on the bench as back up. I honestly cannot blame him for seeking to move.

ziggy

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Drumpot

ziggy wrote: »

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Joe Harte , an up and coming keeper whom most of City will tell you is the long term successor. He has started for the season which indicates that the manager wants to build for the future. Nothing wrong with that. .

Shay Given, a 34 year old veteran with only so many years left on the clock, a better keeper and worthy of a starting spot in most EPL teams . . .

Reminds me of Mick McCarthy saying to Dennis Irwin that he had to prove he was worth a place in the Irish Team .. What a ridiculous statement. Shay has nothing to prove to anybody . . If Mancini doesnt want to start him thats fine. But its ridiculous to ask a keeper of Shay's quality to "prove himself". .

Sounds like city just want to have their cake, eat it and keep other bits of the cake from others . . Keeping a keeper of Shay's quality on the bench is just greedy and ignorance (if you think a benched keeper is "breaking their contract" by looking for a move!) . . If a player is happy sitting on the bench (ask chelsea, they had loads!), then thats fine. . If a keeper has any aspirations and the quality of Given, they would move to a club that will appreciate their talent.

Neil3030

ziggy wrote: »

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That contract was probably signed under the impression he would be their number 1. If not stipulated in said contract, at the very least a gentleman's agreement/verbal contract has been breached by demoting him to the bench. So City are the ones being dishonourable here.

Whatever your take on Hart being the better keeper, if SG signed his contract under the clear impression he would be City's #1, he has been wronged and is justified to seek a move.

ziggy

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Drumpot

ziggy wrote: »

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If, at 34, you dont know if a Keeper is worth starting, you will never know . . Given is a quality keeper but he will never be any better . . City know the standard he is at and his peak standard . .

What you want is for Given to wait to see if Harte Fk's up . . Its nothing to do with "fighting for your place", its more a "wait and see what happens" thing that only benefits City . . Given can control nothing, but hey City get to have two quality GK's . .

Mitch Connor

I don't think anyone is at fault or should be taking flack on this to be honest.

Whoever got picked out of Given/Hart, the other was going to look for a move away. Had it been Hart to miss out I reckon it would have been on loan again, but Given is too old to be heading out on loan, so a transfer away makes sense. I don't see the problem with him looking for a move.

As for Hart getting picked ahead of him, City have decided to show faith in a very promising keeper and one that they could have in nets for the next 15 years. It was the right call to make imo.

Drumpot

ziggy wrote: »

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And no player should be made to stay at a club that wants to use them as a benchwarmer . .

Fight for a place me arse . .

If Given has any aspirations to play football he will not think twice about leaving a club that thinks loyalty only counts when it suits them . .

ziggy

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Xavi6

Drumpot wrote: »

And no player should be made to stay at a club that wants to use them as a benchwarmer . .

Who's making him stay?

Drumpot

ziggy wrote: »

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Which means what exactly ?

Given didnt join City to play as second fiddle to an up and coming GK. . If so, why was harte loaned out last season ? Why wasnt harte kept to "fight for his place" ?

Nobody is saying there is anything wrong with Harte starting, we are saying if Given doesnt want to play second fiddle to Harte he should be allowed leave. He is not the kind of player to rant and rave in public and I would imagine hes not mad about handing in a transfer request (he has shown loyalty to his clubs in the past). .My guess is that City are forcing his hand and he will have to just hand in a request . .

Xavi6

For the love of jaysus, it's HART.

No 'e' at the end. He's no relation to Ian.

Drumpot

Xavi6 wrote: »

Who's making him stay?

That was in relation to Ziggys point that he should honor his contract (as if they mean anything). . Its not beyond the realms of possibility that a club like City would force a player to stay . . They are happy to force out players that dont want to leave, seems like some think loyalty only works one way . .

Frisbee

Drumpot wrote: »

we are saying if Given doesnt want to play second fiddle to Harte he should be allowed leave.

Who is forcing him to stay? Until a club come in with an acceptable bid for him there's nothing Man City can do, they're not just going to terminate his contract.

Drumpot

Frisbee wrote: »

Who is forcing him to stay? Until a club come in with an acceptable bid for him there's nothing Man City can do, they're not just going to terminate his contract.

See above post for clarification . . I was replying to a certain fan saying that Given should honor his contract (irrespective of what he wants to do). . City preaching loyalty is like Sepp Blatter preaching fair play. .

Frisbee

Well tbh Given should honour his contract. If no-one shows an interest or is not willing to put up the agreeable fee City really don't have to sell him. He signed a long term contract and he has to be prepared to honour that. Just because he might not be automatic first choice now doesn't mean he can refuse to honour it, I doubt there was a stipulation in his contract dictating he had to be the #1.

I think City *will* let him leave if they get a decent offer.

ziggy

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ziggy

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Drumpot

ziggy wrote: »

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What are you talking about ? I never said City had to show Given loyalty by starting him . . I just said if he wants a move there should be no problem . .

Given is too good to sit on the bench . . If City want hart as no1 thats fine. .

Quite frankly I would be surprised (and dissapointed as a fan of Shay's) if he was happy to sit on the bench or go out on loan. . Not because its Man City, but because he is good enough to start for most teams and I dont like the thought of him staying at a club where he will never be number 1.

Drumpot

ziggy wrote: »

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Because there are better opportunites for players to move to big clubs in January ?!

Listen, all you are interested in is City having what they want . .

All I am interested is in Given doing what is best for his career. . At 34 years of age it serves no positive purpose trying to sit waiting for an opportunity to displace an up and coming good keeper whom the manager has decided deserves his big shot.

ziggy

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