One millionth trip on Dublin Bike Scheme

tomasrojo

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0814/transport.html

The Dublin Bike Scheme is being lauded as a 'huge success' just 11 months after it began and as the one millionth trip is about to be taken.

(Apologies if already posted.)

tomasrojo

Nice to see the mention there of expanding the scheme throughout the city and even out into the suburbs. Bliss would it be in that dawn to be alive.

-Chris-

I was 10 seconds away from posting the same thing...

DirkVoodoo

Awesome, love the DBs and looking forward to seeing how far it will extend into the "suburbs".

Esroh

Question from a Cluchie.
Who actually gets the money made from the scheme. IIRC was the not a thought that the Company had got a great deal on the amount they paid to get the advertising space.
So have the Council actually pulled a fast one for once and gained the most

markpb

As far as I can recall, the council get the membership and rental fees but they said it's such a small amount of money that it's not worth getting excited about. JCD definitely got a great deal on the advertising though, especially if they don't remove the extra billboards that they promised to.

Fair play to the people involved, it's a great scheme and it's great to see all the extra cyclists around Dublin!

empirix

i use the bikes a lot, one of the few decent things to happen in Dublin for a while, more bike locations please

abcdggs

I dont know anyone who uses them, but are the stations not a bit restrictive? i mean i like having my bike in town and being able to leave it anywhere. i would get annoyed having to plug it into a station every time i wasn't using it.

buffalo

Was chatting to a London-based friend about their new bike scheme. Dublin Bikes cost €10 for a year's membership, London's is £45!

urtooky

buffalo wrote: »

Was chatting to a London-based friend about their new bike scheme. Dublin Bikes cost 10 for a year's membership, London's is £45!

That can't be right:.....

ED E

abcdggs wrote: »

I dont know anyone who uses them, but are the stations not a bit restrictive? i mean i like having my bike in town and being able to leave it anywhere. i would get annoyed having to plug it into a station every time i wasn't using it.

They've got integrated locks for short stops and anything over that docking it isnt an issue. You do the trip the gets you closest to your destination then walk the rest of the way.

For example I sometimes pick up a bike a the green, roll down to the station on parnell street and then its simply a few meters to Cineworld.

Also, leaving your bike anywhere isnt necessarily a good thing. Certain places its best not to leave your bike unattended even when locked.

Dandelion6

abcdggs wrote: »

I dont know anyone who uses them, but are the stations not a bit restrictive? i mean i like having my bike in town and being able to leave it anywhere. i would get annoyed having to plug it into a station every time i wasn't using it.

I think it's great just being able to plug your bike into a station and not having to worry about locking it properly, removing lights etc.

There are a few issues with the stations e.g. there aren't enough of them, DCC's redistribution can't always keep up with the actual movement of bikes, and there are too many one-way streets in the city centre so it's sometimes hard to get to the station you want. But for the sheer convenience (and peace of mind) of not having to worry about what happens to the bike after you leave it, I prefer Dublin Bikes to using my own bike.

abcdggs

Dandelion6 wrote: »

DCC's redistribution can't always keep up with the actual movement of bikes

dcc actually redistribute the bikes depending on demand? that's quite impressive.

I hadn't realised there was a lock integrated into the bike either. in that case they sound great.

tomasrojo

urtooky wrote: »

That can't be right:.....

£45 does seem a bit steep, but I've read it in a few places now.

€10 is a good fee to encourage subscription, I think. It's small enough to make the curious think that it's worth trying it out. £45 is €55, more or less. If you weren't totally sold on using the scheme, that's too much to take a punt on it.

(Incidentally, I hadn't realised you could use Google as a currency converter until today. I just googled "45 sterling in euro" and it returned "45 British pounds = 55.0035286 Euros".)

EDIT: The London bikes also don't have a basket, which is a distinct drawback.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

high heels

Yip living in London at the moment.. The costs are £3 for the key ( like the card in Dublin)

Then for people like me you only go into the city center about once a month you pay a £1 for your day or £5 a week. This gives you the half hour free and then charges you.. Its £1.50 I think for a hour..

But the racks are every where.. There has to be one 300 meters from the next.

Haven't actually been on one yet.. Ive just been too busy to get into Town..

Dublin need more racks.. In places that they are needed not in quiet spots which were put there to discourage people from using them!!! It doesn't make sense at all!

ED E

Yeah, considering "2,000 members in the first year but in less than a year we've signed up 37,000 members" you'd think they'd add at least 20 new points. There is clearly demand for them and the council has plenty of add space to trade in.

Rob A. Bank

The scheme has obviously been a rip roaring success and it has exceeded even the most optimistic initial predictions.

Perhaps it is time to stop relying on advertising companies and invest some real money, with perhaps extentions to other Irish cities.

Also very nice to see the victory of common sense over the bicycle helmet cultists.

Doctor Bob

tomasrojo wrote: »

EDIT: The London bikes also don't have a basket, which is a distinct drawback.

Nor an integrated lock. How do they expect people to go over half an hour if they can only lock at docking stations? Perhaps that explains the higher sign-up fee.

I've heard that ~95% of the DB journeys have been under 30 minutes, but I was wondering recently, of the other 5%, how many were deliberate. I suspect that there's a bit of misunderstanding re the rules, and probably quite a few tourists arriving home to credit card bills €150 higher than they expected.

@Scien- I believe the 4 stations are just a quick fix. I've heard that DCC is looking at a bigger expansion in future ("Aah, the future..."), but not necessarily on the same business model.

markpb

Scien wrote: »

It is disheartening though that although it's the most successful scheme in the world, they are only adding an extra 4 stations. :rolleyes: They should definitely stretch beyond the canals.

Our councilors (most of them) didn't want to pay for the scheme initially and now they don't want to pay for any extensions so they have to be funded by letting J.C.Decaux install more on-street advertising displays. It would be nice to see 3,000 bikes in Dublin but there's a limit to how many displays Dublin could handle and a limit to how much JCD are willing to pay. If businesses, our councilors or the government were willing to pony up the cash, the extensions could happen a lot faster.

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Perhaps it is time to stop relying on advertising companies and invest some real money, with perhaps extentions to other Irish cities.

If people want to see it happening in other cities, they need to start harassing their TDs and local councilors. Initiative is in short supply among a lot of them.

ThisRegard

tomasrojo wrote: »

(Incidentally, I hadn't realised you could use Google as a currency converter until today. I just googled "45 sterling in euro" and it returned "45 British pounds = 55.0035286 Euros".)

To remain off topic, you can use it to convert basically any measurement, I've used it to convert all sorts of measurements, real handy just typing what you want in the search bar and getting the answer back.

Morgan

ThisRegard wrote: »

To remain off topic, you can use it to convert basically any measurement, I've used it to convert all sorts of measurements, real handy just typing what you want in the search bar and getting the answer back.

Doesn't always work though.

Riskymove

tomasrojo wrote: »

Nice to see the mention there of expanding the scheme throughout the city and even out into the suburbs. Bliss would it be in that dawn to be alive.

tbf the print media aritcles on the issue last Friday did mention this and there were quotes to the effect that there would be an expansion (although I doubt to suburbs)

nerraw1111

According to a Labour cllr, the stations need to be extended in clusters to be effective rather than just random stations dotted around.

I believe they;re going to be extended to Clontarf next.

wile1000

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Also very nice to see the victory of common sense over the bicycle helmet cultists.

Melbourne's system launch recently, and according to the Metro Herald this morning, they are only about 70 trips per day compared to Dublin's 5,000 - with about the same number of bikes. [These figures are from memory; correct me if I'm wrong]

Biggest problem with their system is that Australian Law states you have to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle. A good law, but defeats the purpose of spontaneity of the system. ("oh I might ride a city bike later; better take a helmet to the cafe with me...")

I'm not a bicycle helmet cultist - I do wear one if travelling fast on my own bike but also like the wind in my hair when riding a db.

Doctor Bob

Conor Faughnan and Andrew Montague on NewsTalk now.

RDM_83 again

Any link to where the new stations are going to go, really need some more on the northside the coverage there is shockingly bad (but then its to be expected from Dublin city council and north of liffey)

Hungrycol

They need to start adding them outside the Parking Levy zones, bit like a park and ride facility.

Doctor Bob

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Any link to where the new stations are going to go, really need some more on the northside the coverage there is shockingly bad (but then its to be expected from Dublin city council and north of liffey)

Councillors last night approved the construction of advertising display units, similar in size to bus shelter advertising, at Lower Mount Street and Nassau Street on the south side and North Earl Street on the north side of the city.
The have also given approval for two “metropoles” – larger panels of 7sq m on poles two metres off the ground – at Merrion Road and Lower Gardiner Street.
JC Decaux will have permission to advertise at these sites for 15 years.
In return, it will increase the number of stands where bikes can be picked up and dropped off from 795 to 1,087, increase bicycle numbers from 450 to 550, and set up four new stations at Smithfield, Eccles Street, Harcourt Terrace and Charlemont Mall.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0727/1224275546087.html

monument

There's something very fishy going on with the council and not wanting to release the number of subscribers (or an extremely foolish way of keeping interest down while also announcing the above). They (the officials rather than Montague) keep repeating that there is 30,000 subscribers when the number is apparently above 37,000.

Note how some news outlets have one way or another got around this issue by quoting Montague. But I don't see how anybody who calls them self a journalist can't see an issue with the different figures.

I wrote about it on Friday:

However, at the same time, the council would only say that there are more than 30,000 subscribers, a figure already announced in April when it said there were 21,134 long-term and 10,098 short-term subscribers.

When asked about the subscriber number of over 37,300 published by The Irish Times on Monday last, a council spokesman said to use that figure. However, a short time afterwards we were contacted and told that JCDecaux had just confirmed the figure was only “in and around 30,000.”

dynamick

A lot more people are cycling in dublin not just on dublin bikes and I think we will see a huge jump in the next Dublin city cycling survey count (done in november every year)

The scheme has been a success in terms of attracting people to use it, but we may have overpaid very badly for it.

One of the Irish ad agency bosses measured the value of the poster sites given to JC Decaux at 100 million. In paris they got twice as many bikes per poster as we did. Maybe they have higher footfall or something??

markpb

dynamick wrote: »

A lot more people are cycling in dublin not just on dublin bikes and I think we will see a huge jump in the next Dublin city cycling survey count (done in november every year)

Unfortunately, if the weather isn't great in November, we might see the numbers falling which means the survey will under-represent cyclists :-\

dynamick

Just for quick comparison:

London:
cost £140m: 6,000 bikes
Dublin
cost €100m: 450 bikes

What's wrong with this picture?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays_Cycle_Hire

Doctor Bob

markpb wrote: »

Unfortunately, if the weather isn't great in November, we might see the numbers falling which means the survey will under-represent cyclists :-\

The survey is done on two consecutive days, which partly overcomes the weather effect.

Crucially the survey is done in November because it's always been done in November, so whilst it might not pick up the summer peak for cycling, it has the advantage of allowing fair comparisions between various years.

I do think that a single annual survey is insufficient, as is the methodology of using a canal cordon- it only picks up people who cross the canal ring during a particular time window, and misses those who don't cross the canal at all or who do it earlier than 7 am / later than 10 am.

monument

Dublin and Paris are more comparable

You might be interested in this thread over in commuting and transport about getting information such as the Dublin Bikes contracts, see here.

Also on stats, the next Census is next year. Although isn't that too is at a low time for cycling (ie December)? But still, the numbers should be a good bit higher in Dublin compared to 2006.

tomasrojo

dynamick wrote: »

Just for quick comparison:

London:
cost £140m: 6,000 bikes
Dublin
cost €100m: 450 bikes

That's the sum spent in establishing the scheme, is it? I was trying to find this information the other day, so I could compare the return on investment of the Luas and the DB scheme.

The Luas cost €750 million to set up, if I recall correctly, and facilitates about 25 million journeys a year. So over seven times the cost, but over twenty times as many trips, and those Luas trips are longer on average, I presume.

Perhaps not a fair comparison. I'm not having a go at the DB scheme, which I love.

I also might not have the right numbers there. I just googled around a bit and got that information, mostly from the Irish Times.

mcgratheoin

dynamick wrote: »

One of the Irish ad agency bosses

Would be suspicious of JCD competitors complaining about a deal like this. From what I've heard from a friend in one of the ad agencies, JCD are not getting anything like the benefit they expected out of the bikes. They were initially expecting to get the Power of One government campaign on board, but the money they're looking for is astronomical according to what I've heard.
I am surprised that the bikes are still advertisement free, compared to other cities' schemes (Oslo below).

dynamick

I would have thought that estimating the value of display ads is fairly easy. There is a going rate for each size of display ad, dependent on location. There are multiple providers of display ads and many customers with frequent turnover of ads so there is a liquid market to price ad space.

The whole deal is very complex.
DCC lets JCD erect ad signs on its property
JCD promises to remove some existing illegal signs
JCD keeps ad revenue
JCD provides bike service
JCD gives DCC fares
DCC gets advertising space

It reminds me of the short change con from so many movies
http://www.fraudtech.bizland.com/short_change.htm

monument

The wayfinding system is also part of the deal.