photographers excuses for shooting for free- MOD NOTE POST #60

stcstc

wow

the response to this is mad, and not my intention to cause any rows

My take on it was :

there seems to be a major jump on people who come to boards asking for images for either free or cheaply. - I dont agree people should devalue photography or anything

then here we basically have the opposite - people suggestion strongly that there is nothing wrong with working for free.

anyway i dont think its as simple as people who earn a living from this should not be worried by people working for free. i find its the same in my work. i get people asking for prices then they say oh jimmy down the road my mate says he will do them for a fraction of the price as its not his income

I do find this frustrating, as i have invest considerable ammounts of money and time developing my business, and for someone to then compete without actually charging what things cost never mind profit.

the main reason for the frustration is not people doing this persay, they tend not to last long. its that i end up having to increase what i charge per job to cover the jobs have lost out on. if that makes sense



i do find the professional and ameteur terms a little funny and not relevant in a sense

as a large number of ameteurs are as capable or a lot of the pros i have met or dealt with, in terms of taking pictures

in terms of interpersonal skills which i guess are as important as taking the pics in a lot of situations, pros tend to have done it before and therefore can deal with things.

and there are a lot of pros around who maybe better business people that photographers if you know what i mean

PCPhoto

landyman wrote: »

See I wouldnt be taking photos at league of Ireland games, inter county gaa games, just my local rural gaa club. The manager who is my neighbor asked me to take a few photographs for the new clubhouse. I've also sold several photos to the liffey champion, again local matches.

You see these pitches are open, just a field, no special 'designated' areas for photographers, and on more then one occasion I've been confronted by 'professionals' who ask me who I'm shooting for or am I a member of the NUJ? When i tell them i not working/member of either, I am basically told to f off as I've no right to be taking photos there. Now who is the c0cky pr!ck there ?

in this situation I would tell the guy to "bite my left one" .... or else ask him has he ever been audited and would he like to be ... say you know some people in revenue

I think this is right. There has to be mutual respect on both sides from a professional to a non-professional viewpoint and vice versa. Otherwise these debates will keep occurring

problem with this is "some" old school photographers take the standing that the new people are stop him from working ...after all he/she will most likely be faster on a computer, prob understand the camera better and working cheaper....so its a jealousy thing.

oh and of course you'll get the c0cky idiots who think they know it all and they are the best...have come across a few amateurs like this....just ignored them and on some occasions walked away to positions where nothing could possibly have been gotten - only to find the amateur follow me.... and sit down... just before kick off ...I got up and moved again - he couldnt gather everything fast enough and was stuck there till half-time

magicbastarder

i wonder were there similar debates on edwardian era discussion fora about the cheeky upstarts who mowed their neighbour's lawn when lawnmowers became affordable to more than just the professionals.

the industry has changed, and professionals will have to change along with it.

jpb1974

in this situation I would tell the guy to "bite my left one" .... or else ask him has he ever been audited and would he like to be ... say you know some people in revenue

Or if you have a pink handbag just flash it at him/her.

jpb1974

or else ask him has he ever been audited and would he like to be

Are you suggesting that some 'professionals' don't pay their taxes? No respect for the tax system... cocky pr!cks.

PCPhoto

no - I'm saying that an audit is not a nice thing to happen - and no-one likes an audit.

so ...the threat of "encouraging" an audit from the Revenue is enough to piss a photographer off.

jpb1974

so ...the threat of "encouraging" an audit from the Revenue is enough to piss a photographer off.

Not the 'amateurs' that do it for free though?

I'll remember that next time I'm down at the courts though

PCPhoto

an audit should scare an amateur as much as a professional.... just because an amateur is under the radar doesn't mean you cant be audited to ensure you are filling out your taxes properly - especially if you are making some money from photography.

I doubt very much that every amateur that earns a couple of quid from photography declares it to the revenue, a professional on the other hand doesn't have a choice because if they are audited and figures dont add up or cant be explained .... its the revenue's time to claim the maximum they can ...if you have no defence for it...you dont have a choice.

I get receipts for everything and leave a massive paper trail - last year my accountant said he was able to account for almost every penny that I earned (I also had to explain some gambling wins/losses - as it was random money put into my bank account and I was told not to put it into my bank account as it could be seen by revenue as a cash job and they would expect a percentage.)

every payment into my bank accounts and out of my bank accounts is explained - I keep receipts - unfortunately not very organised as they are usually chucked in a bag and given to accountant to sort out.

jpb1974

You could wave around the "I'll report you to the revenue" stick at just about anyone irrespective of their profession.

Bit lame if you ask me... nobody likes a rat.

jpb1974

a professional on the other hand doesn't have a choice

You're having a laugh right?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/photographer-accused-of-not-paying-vat-on-836414m-earnings-2155041.html

squareballoon

jpb1974 wrote: »

You're having a laugh right?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/photographer-accused-of-not-paying-vat-on-836414m-earnings-2155041.html

Whatever about that fool not paying VAT I'm impressed that he earned so much in that time!! And also what a great photo by Dylan Vaughan.

jpb1974

I'm impressed that he earned so much in that time!!

€1.4m in 6 years... circa €230k a year... legendary stuff.

And also what a great photo by Dylan Vaughan.

Aye.. tis a great pic.. the expression, the fag, the tie.