Sorry i can't accept your money.

jpb1974

6. The gal behind the counter sighs and says "OK, just this once, but next time remember we can't accept anything larger than a €50 note". You call back a fortnight later and she's gone... turns out she got the sack.

jor el

Most likely they'd issue you with a bill for the amount, possibly looking for some sort of security deposit to be left (drivers licence, ATM card or something else you'd definitely go back for).

delllat

a guy in an internet cafe in camden st refused to take a 50 euro note off me once when i had used the internet for 30 min and owed him €1

he told me i had to leave my phone with him and he would return it when it i came back and paid the €1

i told him he wasnt getting my phone,call the guards if u want

in the end he let me go across the road to the spar (with the phone ) and break the 50 and i paid him his €1

cheeky cnut

the_syco

delllat wrote: »

a guy in an internet cafe in camden st refused to take a 50 euro note off me once when i had used the internet for 30 min and owed him €1

Most of these places your float is €50, so he probably thought you were a

delllat wrote: »

cheeky cnut

trying to get out of paying.

cherryghost

the_syco wrote: »

Most of these places your float is €50, so he probably thought you were a

trying to get out of paying.

Yeah I have to do that a few times here in the internet cafe in Athlone. Just not enough money in the till to hand over the change like that, especially when the shop doesnt deal with large charges anyway. I do hate it though, asking for something smaller, but I don't really have a choice.

Also, although we can take limited 50's we can not, in any circumstances accept over 100 euro. We've been stung twice in the last few years and had turned down some 100s as they were found to be counterfeit.

delllat

the_syco wrote: »

Most of these places your float is €50, so he probably thought you were a

trying to get out of paying.

i still wasnt leaving a 300 euro phone full of personal info as security for a €1 debt

its his problem if he cant break a 50

Our man in Havana

Correct. The Gardaí will not get involved as it is a civil matter. Legal tender was offered to satisfy a debt. His problem entirely.

P. Breathnach

delllat wrote: »

... its his problem if he cant break a 50

That's a poor attitude. You owed the money. It is your problem to pay it.

Haddockman wrote: »

Correct. ... Legal tender was offered to satisfy a debt. His problem entirely.

Incorrect. A €50 is not legal tender in settlement of a €1 debt. Unless you decide that you don't want change.

As a general principle, if you decide to be precious and stand on your rights, you had better make sure that you know what those rights are.

Our man in Havana

Nice to see the high horse brigade in attendance.

dxhound2005

Some more thoughts on the subject from earlier this year.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055893997

Corruptedmorals

delllat wrote: »

i still wasnt leaving a 300 euro phone full of personal info as security for a €1 debt

its his problem if he cant break a 50

People who work in shops don't make the rules/set the float.

Our man in Havana

The offer was made to settle the debt and he refused.

Minstrel27

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's a poor attitude. You owed the money. It is your problem to pay it.



Incorrect. A €50 is not legal tender in settlement of a €1 debt. Unless you decide that you don't want change.

Please point me to where it says in law that a €50 note is not legal tender when paying €1. I find that to be absolutely incredible.

Johnny_the_fox

similar scenario

The term 'legal tender' is key to the currency issue, as it only actually refers to a narrow definition of what is acceptable for the settlement of a debt, and does not carry any real practical meaning in everyday life. Just because a note (or other means of payment) is not legal tender does not mean that it is illegal or unacceptable.

people should start writing IOUs.

P. Breathnach

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Please point me to where it says in law that a €50 note is not legal tender when paying €1. I find that to be absolutely incredible.

You are looking at things the wrong way around. The proper question to ask is what is legal tender, not what is not. The conventional definition of legal tender is that which must be accepted in settlement of a debt. There is no provision in law obliging a trader to give change. See, for example, http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Legal_tender and look at the second paragraph for the point about change.

delllat

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's a poor attitude. You owed the money. It is your problem to pay it.



Incorrect. A €50 is not legal tender in settlement of a €1 debt. Unless you decide that you don't want change.

As a general principle, if you decide to be precious and stand on your rights, you had better make sure that you know what those rights are.

if you read my post,i OFFERED to pay it

the guy is running a business in DUBLIN CITY CENTRE ,this was well before the recession kicked in so a €50 wasnt a huge amount at the time

people had higher salaries and more disposable cash ,if people are going to stop accepting 50s they should be taken out of legal tender cause whats the point of banks giving us notes we cant spend ?

delllat

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's a poor attitude. You owed the money. It is your problem to pay it.



Incorrect. A €50 is not legal tender in settlement of a €1 debt. Unless you decide that you don't want change.

As a general principle, if you decide to be precious and stand on your rights, you had better make sure that you know what those rights are.

no shop is entitled to keep your change ,which law says that ?

P. Breathnach

delllat wrote: »

if you read my post,i OFFERED to pay it

the guy is running a business in DUBLIN CITY CENTRE ,this was well before the recession kicked in so a €50 wasnt a huge amount at the time

people had higher salaries and more disposable cash ,if people are going to stop accepting 50s they should be taken out of legal tender cause whats the point of banks giving us notes we cant spend ?

It's very simple, and you have missed the point. If you owe somebody €1, the only legal tender is €1 (one coin, or a mix of coins: it doesn't really matter).

If you tender a larger amount, the creditor can refuse it or refuse to give change. Of course we can see that generally retail traders provide change as a convenience for customers, but they are not obliged to. If the trader does not have enough change, that's your problem, not his.

A €50 note is legal tender for a debt of €50.

P. Breathnach

delllat wrote: »

no shop is entitled to keep your change ,which law says that ?

No shop is obliged to give you change.

Minstrel27 asked for a source; I gave one; now you simply assert a claim at variance with what I cited.

Your turn: give me a source that says that a shopkeeper is obliged to give change.

delllat

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No shop is obliged to give you change.

well that would null my obligation to pay them :rolleyes:

Our man in Havana

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No shop is obliged to give you change.

Quote the law please.

sesna

delllat wrote: »

no shop is entitled to keep your change ,which law says that ?

I wonder how a court would view a case where someone hands over a 50 euro note for a 4 euro purchase, only to have the till slammed shut and be told no change will be forthcoming because there is no legal obligation.

P. Breathnach

Haddockman wrote: »

Quote the law please.

The point is that there is no law. The only relevant law is that on legal tender, and that law does not impose on a creditor an obligation to accept a greater amount than is owed and then give change. I have already

You are suggesting that a debtor has a right to impose an obligation on a creditor. The debtor has no such right.

delllat

also which law says a €300 euro phone must be left as security for a €1 debt ?

i offered to call the guards when he was insisting on this and he backed down ,why ?

probably because he was wrong ,i would have called the gaurds just for entertainment if he was willing to take it that far

i wasnt stealing from him,i had the 50 in my hand trying to pay him and he wouldnt take it

the guards probably would have told us both to f@ck off if they were called down over such an issue

P. Breathnach

sesna wrote: »

I wonder how a court would view a case where someone hands over a 50 euro note for a 4 euro purchase, only to have the till slammed shut and be told no change will be forthcoming because there is no legal obligation.

That's not quite the issue. We are discussing money already owed, not somebody seeking to buy a small item in a shop.

In the case of settling a debt, the creditor is entitled to demand the exact amount. If you owed me €4 and tendered €50, I can refuse the €50 and demand the exact amount you owe me. If you took umbrage and walked off, I could sue you for the debt and the court would back my claim.

delllat

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's not quite the issue. We are discussing money already owed, not somebody seeking to buy a small item in a shop.

In the case of settling a debt, the creditor is entitled to demand the exact amount. If you owed me €4 and tendered €50, I can refuse the €50 and demand the exact amount you owe me. If you took umbrage and walked off, I could sue you for the debt and the court would back my claim.

its the exact same issue ,i purchased 30 minutes service of internet at the price of €1

no differnt than purchasing a cup of coffee in a coffee shop

which court would entertain a €1 euro claim btw ?

P. Breathnach

delllat wrote: »

also which law says a €300 euro phone must be left as security for a €1 debt ?

I never said that this was right.

i offered to call the guards when he was insisting on this and he backed down ,why ?

probably because he was wrong ,i would have called the gaurds just for entertainment if he was willing to take it that far

The guards would have refused to get involved on either side of the dispute. It's a matter of civil law, and none of their business.

i wasnt stealing from him,i had the 50 in my hand trying to pay him and he wouldnt take it

I never said or suggested that you were trying to do anything wrong. My point is that you had no right to demand that he take a larger amount than you owed and then give you change. I imagine that he didn't have enough change, and that he wasn't free to leave the premises.

P. Breathnach

delllat wrote: »

its the exact same issue ,i purchased 30 minutes service of internet at the price of €1

no differnt than purchasing a cup of coffee in a coffee shop

Every time I post a response to a post, I find another one has already arrived!

If I go into a shop to buy a small thing like a newspaper and have only a €50 note, then the shopkeeper can refuse to go ahead with the transaction (indeed, he can refuse even if I have the exact change). No transaction; no debt; no issue.

If I drink a cup of coffee in a coffee shop or use the service of an internet café, then the transaction has already happened, and I owe money. It's when I owe money that legal tender becomes relevant. The creditor can, for good reasons or bad ones, hold out for the exact amount due.

And I think you are editing as I post! Did you add this as an afterthought?

which court would entertain a €1 euro claim btw ?

Not the Small Claims Court, because we are discussing the possibility of a business making a claim. District Court. The DJ would probably be very unsympathetic to both parties.

ectoraige

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Every time I post a response to a post, I find another one has already arrived!

If I go into a shop to buy a small thing like a newspaper and have only a €50 note, then the shopkeeper can refuse to go ahead with the transaction (indeed, he can refuse even if I have the exact change). No transaction; no debt; no issue.

If I drink a cup of coffee in a coffee shop or use the service of an internet café, then the transaction has already happened, and I owe money. It's when I owe money that legal tender becomes relevant. The creditor can, for good reasons or bad ones, hold out for the exact amount due.

I'm not sure if you're 100% correct there.

The creditor can't refuse legal tender when offered to him. However, he can refuse to give any change and treat the excess as a gift. He can tell the debtor "If you give me that €50, you won't be getting any change back". If the debtor insists on proceeding, then the creditor can't refuse.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

sesna

ectoraige wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're 100% correct there.

The creditor can't refuse legal tender when offered to him. However, he can refuse to give any change and treat the excess as a gift. He can tell the debtor "If you give me that €50, you won't be getting any change back". If the debtor insists on proceeding, then the creditor can't refuse.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

We're getting new provisos. Gone from okay to keep the change, to now having to inform the debtor that the creditor is about to keep his change - sorry gift.