Loved / Loathed Game Characters.

SeantheMan

I don't like this thread anymore it was fun reading peoples Likes/Dislikes..

I didn't want a discussion on character-types/mediums/character development etc ...zzzzzzzzzzz

Like how the f*ck has Cheryl Cole come into this topic ?! HOW AND WHY ?!!!

previous user

The mysterious "X" was the big boss from Kung fu master on the Atari 2600, never actually got to see this guy but his gloating laughter used to drive me nuts, every time I got killed in the game.

previous user

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

Revolver... *spin spin spin twirl twirl twirl spin twirl twirl spin spin spin twirl* .....Ocelot *spin spin spin spin* :cool:

Peppy from Star fox "Do a barrel roll! Use the barrel roll" :mad:

lol and in Star fox for the snes all the characters sounded like they had a collective stroke, slurring their uintelligable garble.

Retr0gamer

NeoKubrick wrote: »

No, the main difference is that one purpose fit one medium and another, fit another. Sergie Leone and his writers wrote Clint Eastwood's character to be more expressive, because the character is driving the movie, and also is equipped with Eastwood's distinctive face and Leone's fetishism for extreme close-ups. Master Chief's design is more restrictive, because he's not in a movie; it's a computer game. There are sub-differences in that Eastwood and Leone is great actor and director, respectively.

So he's great character because he was written as a crap character and filled the rolenicely? That doesn't make a lick of sense. Just because Master Chief is in a videogame is no excuse for him to be vapid and uninteresting, that's just stupid.

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Maybe, the director showed him Victor Sjöström, but that's all hearsay and no grounds for claims like he was designed to mimic Solid Snake.

There's also no grounds to claim that he wasn't based on solid snake. It's just my interpretation of the events and from the focus tested nature of the character and how little imagination was put into him that's my idea. I never claimed it was fact.

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Unless you're willing to drop your selective criticism and apply it to most games including your favourites, I don't think you should criticize a single game for focus testing (evidence?), because one method or another, obvious or subtle, every developer plays off the player's needs and wants, especially in a genre game (e.g. JRPG set in a Japanese high-school). And if that sum was correct, Bungie would maximize the dollars by maximizing the amount the Space Marine uses his 'gruff voice' and they didn't.

It' not selective criticism just because you don't agree with it. Of course all games have a certain amount of focus testing but the analogy of Persona with Halo just doesn't hold up. It's no hidden truth that Persona was made as a spin off of the ultra hardcore Shin Megami Tensei series to appeal to a wider audience but it's far from the generic FPS crowd that Halo follows in terms of focus testing.

NeoKubrick wrote: »

I think you're contradicting imaginary arguments and flinging feces at imaginary people. The voice director Marty O'Donnell directed Steve Downes to the type of Clint Eastwood Fistful of Dollars character recording in 2000, a year before the actual release of the game (before the fact). There's nothing wrong with a director pointing to a short reference of what he wants from his actors. I stated this to shoot down Retr0's incorrect claim that Master Chief was designed to mimic Solid Snake.

Again can you prove it's incorrect especially considering Snake was based on these exact same gruff characters in the first place?

NeoKubrick wrote: »

I don't you two, or anyone else in union, have grasped the notion that criticizing a character for what he was designed to be is the same as criticizing a football for being round.

If he was designed to be a terrible character he's still a terrible character if it does the job well.

Sarky

Gordon Freeman says nothing. Master Chief says nothing worth hearing. You never lose control of Gordon Freeman. Halo has a big thing for dragging you out of the game with cutscenes that showcase Master Chief not doing very much and being awfully unexpressive about it. He's a lousy character. Hell, even Keanu Reeves can do a decent "WTF is going on" confused character. Master Chief has f*ck-all.

And to whoever mentioned Jon Irenicus, I love you.

thewheel2.0

I'm a strong believer in "hey maybe this game aint for you" I don't think this argument is going anywhere, its not like your arguing about the timeline of the Zelda games or trying to decipher the Metal Gear games, your arguing about Halo.

As that other guy said it was much better as a Like/Dislike thread with smaller amounts of discussion.

K.O.Kiki

What? No.
Feck Master Chief, feck his imitators, and feck everything he stands for!

Fnz

Sarky wrote: »

Gordon Freeman says nothing. Master Chief says nothing worth hearing. You never lose control of Gordon Freeman. Halo has a big thing for dragging you out of the game with cutscenes that showcase Master Chief not doing very much and being awfully unexpressive about it. He's a lousy character. Hell, even Keanu Reeves can do a decent "WTF is going on" confused character. Master Chief has f*ck-all.

Gordon Freeman is a creepy mofo - staring at anyone who speak to him... in silence. I really found that jarring, especially as it becomes more apparent that

Alyx has feelings for

Gordon.

It would be great if Master Chief was more expressive - as we can't see the expression of his face, he should, totally, shout out his current mood, while performing jumping jacks, where suitable.

NeoKubrick

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So he's great character because he was written as a crap character and filled the rolenicely? That doesn't make a lick of sense. Just because Master Chief is in a videogame is no excuse for him to be vapid and uninteresting, that's just stupid.

Solid Snake's personality was based off of action heroes, primarily Kurt Russell's Snake Plissken in Escape from New York. There's a substantial difference between a wise-cracking Kurt Russell and man-of-few-words Clint Eastwood type. So, there are not based upon the exact same gruff characters. There is clear evidence that he was based on a different type than Solid Snake and evidence that it is high unlikely that the character's voice was mimicking Solid Snake: I've already established that, here. Anyway, the onus is on you to find the evidence to support your claim, because you've provided none so far.


He's not a great character, and I never claimed he was. I contradicted that he was a shit character, and I pointed out how ridiculous the reasons were for calling him a shit, uncharismatic, plank character.

Halo is a computer game. In most games, designers have to eliminate the disparity between the player controlling the main character in gameplay and the developers controlling the main character in cut-scenes. Valve eliminated this by having the entire game played in real-time and in the first-person perspective of the main character, and by casting a main character who never speaks and whom the player never sees (no reflective material in the games).

Bungie partially eliminated this by designing a main character whom we never see his body or face outside of his Armour encasing, and who seldom speaks (approx. 3m:45s over the trilogy) and when he does speak (note: no spoken dialogue within gameplay), the dialogue is little more than matter-of-fact statements. If the character was constantly wise-cracking, it would make him more personable and defeat the purpose of his design. As I've said before, Master Chief is virtually an avatar; Gordon Freeman is an almost complete avatar.

That's their design, and to criticize it for being what it is is the same as criticizing a football for being round. You can criticize a football for being round if it isn't fit for its purpose (id est kicking it), but it obviously is good fit. Gordon Freeman and Master Chief are obviously good fit for their purpose and design. That's good design; a trait which is why Bungie and Valve, not you, Sarky, Menengroth, Kazuma or Jazzy and his quart of Tesco vodka, are top developers in the development field.


P.S And, preppy protagonist, the bubbling clown friend, next-door tomboy girl, the shy vulnerable beautiful girl and the token cutesy childish character are generic characters by your standards. So, it is selective to claim of one game that it's generic and to claim of another, namely one of your favourite games, that it isn't.

Retr0gamer

NeoKubrick wrote: »

P.S And, preppy protagonist, the bubbling clown friend, next-door tomboy girl, the shy vulnerable beautiful girl and the token cutesy childish character are generic characters by your standards. So, it is selective to claim of one game that it's generic and to claim of another, namely one of your favourite games, that it isn't.

They maybe generic anime tropes but they are done really well and quite realistically in the Persona games which makes them believeable because unlike their anime counterparts or every other teen in a JRPG the characters in persona act like real japanese school kids. That makes them good characters. Generic is fine if it's done well and tbh Persona differs from the norm, when was the last time you played a game where japanese teens acted like real japanese teens and realistically when initially presented with crazy situations.

Jazzy

so a tl;dr would be this: Master Chief is not sh1t, hes just boring. hmmmmmm, im actually getting how you have done a long boring post and reflected that as what master chief and the halo games are, long and boring. rspct


dont drink vodka btw

Menengroth™

Jazzy wrote: »

so a tl;dr would be this: Master Chief is not sh1t, hes just boring. hmmmmmm, im actually getting how you have done a long boring post and reflected that as what master chief and the halo games are, long and boring. rspct


dont drink vodka btw

I just like how he thinks we don't deserve to criticize these companies because we are not, and I quote: "top developers in the development field".


...................................

Jazzy

Menengroth™ wrote: »

I just like how he thinks we don't deserve to criticize these companies because we are not, and I quote: "top developers in the development field".


...................................

but ive won the First Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Development

Mr. K

Inspired by the Lara Croft and The Guardian of Light topic over in the Xbox forum, I've got more characters.

Kain (Legacy of Kain)- Great voice actor, complex motives, great character design

Raziel (Legacy of Kain)- As above, even more striking design

NeoKubrick

Jazzy wrote: »

so a tl;dr would be this: Master Chief is not sh1t, hes just boring. hmmmmmm, im actually getting how you have done a long boring post and reflected that as what master chief and the halo games are, long and boring. rspct


dont drink vodka btw

Well, your previous post was long and boring and reads like the bad work of a drunk, and I didn't start whining - man-up. 'tl;dr' is just the internet form of concision, Jazzy. Was I wrong in crediting you with intelligence to absorb more than a hundred words in one post? I don't think I was, but regardless, let me know what you do drink.

Menengroth™ wrote: »

I just like how he thinks we don't deserve to criticize these companies because we are not, and I quote: "top developers in the development field".
...................................

Your criticisms are inane babble: it would be irrelevant either if you were or were not a top developer. However, before criticizing designs by very successful developers (this applies to all developers, but one step at a time), if you were smart, you would be more likely to give them more than the less successful developers the benefit-of-doubt of understanding their design rather than posting your ignorant opinion and increasing the likelihood of displaying it; I was hoping to jog any self-preservation you may have had.

Ellipsis Ellipsis Ellipsis Ellipsis Ellipsis Ellipsis Ellipsis Ellipsis Ellipsis

Retr0gamer

Stop with the personal abuse or I'll have to lock the thread. Neokubrick, attack the post not the poster. If you've done any debating before you should know that attacking the person making the point is not going towin you any debates.

Jazzy

hahahahaha. smart guy thinks he smart because of noam chomsky love those types. have manufacturing consent here in my room somewhere, a book custom designed for people that think they are deep intellects but in reality are more obsessed with other people thinking they are these master minds. great use of the word 'concision' too, how could i ever try and debate with a guy that links that word to a youtube vid of chomsky. then you go pumping that grey matter shotgun of yours and hit us with a blast of 'Ellipsis'.

i really do love how you've gotten all annoyed there though and acuse me of being a drunk (as john mclane says in die hard 3, im only 2 steps away :pac: ) and then try to hit us back up with some bullsh1t language use that probably came from your word of the day toilet paper, even though you were the one that started the flaming. i know i know, that cant possibly be the case because your so smrt and all and yeah, me and menenfags tiny brains couldnt possibly contend with your whomper stomper of an opinion on one of the most boring main stream characters in video game history. but for someone that links us to noam chomsky, you dont seem to have any knowledge at all as to the hows and whys of master chief being shoved down our throats... not think that maybe bungie were manufacturing consent?

Sarky

Also I Crazy Dave from Plants Vs. Zombies.

landsleaving

NeoKubrick wrote: »

Well, your previous post was long and boring and reads like the bad work of a drunk, and I didn't start whining - man-up. 'tl;dr' is just the internet form of concision, Jazzy. Was I wrong in crediting you with intelligence to absorb more than a hundred words in one post? I don't think I was, but regardless, let me know what you do drink.

Ugh... Chomsky.

Retr0gamer

Mmmm.... Nyomsky

landsleaving

Nyom Chompsky.

Stercus Accidit

Artyom (sp?) from metro 2033 showed how an fps protagonist can have character. They used some clever loading scenes between action, where we are treated to Artyom's thoughts on what is going on, voiced very nicely too, and gave context to our upcoming actions. - Just a game that really impressed me recently.

Gordon Freeman could be a totally different character in our minds if he were to have such an inner monologue, unimaginable to most I'd say, we have created his character ourselves, through how others speak to him. But the inner monologue in metro was a great move by the designers, it truly added depth to the experience.

SeantheMan

Gonna add

Dislike Sofia lamb (Bioshock 2) ...woman doesnt know where the OFF button for her mouth is...yap yap yap yap.

Like

Sander Cohen Bioshock 1

Lynch - Kane + Lynch

NeoKubrick

Jazzy wrote: »

hahahahaha. smart guy thinks he smart because of noam chomsky love those types. have manufacturing consent here in my room somewhere, a book custom designed for people that think they are deep intellects but in reality are more obsessed with other people thinking they are these master minds. great use of the word 'concision' too, how could i ever try and debate with a guy that links that word to a youtube vid of chomsky. then you go pumping that grey matter shotgun of yours and hit us with a blast of 'Ellipsis'.

i really do love how you've gotten all annoyed there though and acuse me of being a drunk (as john mclane says in die hard 3, im only 2 steps away :pac: ) and then try to hit us back up with some bullsh1t language use that probably came from your word of the day toilet paper, even though you were the one that started the flaming. i know i know, that cant possibly be the case because your so smrt and all and yeah, me and menenfags tiny brains couldnt possibly contend with your whomper stomper of an opinion on one of the most boring main stream characters in video game history. but for someone that links us to noam chomsky, you dont seem to have any knowledge at all as to the hows and whys of master chief being shoved down our throats... not think that maybe bungie were manufacturing consent?

Well, as obsessions go with other people's opinions, I'd say the person who is addressing 'them' and not the person he is replying to is highly obsessive of 'them' ("smart guy thinks he smart"). I link that video, because it adequately sums up the idiocy of 'tl;dr' replies or versions better than I ever could. I use the video a lot. I don't see the drama of linking to a Chomsky video, but, then, most people think wrongly that knowledge equals intelligence.

I wasn't annoyed. It was light-hearted banter: I thought 'man-up' would have tipped you off to that. I accused you of being intelligent which doesn't strike me offensive or flaming.

As for if Bungie are manufacturing consent, that's complicated to answer. I doubt it has anything to do with Master Chief whatsoever, though; it is after all only a creative design concern. Hollywood is one of the biggest propaganda machines for America. It's safe to assume that the America games industry serves a similar function as the film industry, and eventually will replace it as the biggest. Gamasutra had an interesting interview with Tom Edwards, a geocultural advisor:

During the geocultural review of Halo 2’s content, the original name for the Arbiter character -- Dervish -- was identified as a potential problem. Out of context, the name ‘Dervish’ wasn’t too sensitive as it’s a title from the Sufi sect of Islam. However, within the game’s context this Islamic-related name of ‘Dervish’ set up a potentially problematic allegory related to Halo 2’s plot -- the U.S.-like forces (Master Chief/Sarge) versus Islam (the religious Covenant, which already had a “Prophet of Truth” which is one synonym for Mohammed).

Call of Duty Modern Warfare series has been more blatant with indoctrination. I haven't studied it in-depth, but with any large entertainment industry, it will serve some function to shape and filter issues. So, I would think that titles like Call of Duty and Halo are supported and advertised more because they serve that function.

landsleaving

I like Pac-Man, his only agenda is eating and not getting killed by ghosts. I can relate to that. :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Retr0gamer

Tom Edwards sounds like an academic talking through his hoop who just reads into things too much and I unfortunately know way too many like that.

noodler

Atlas - Bioshock 1

Auron FFX

Big Boss (rather than Solid Snake)

Dislike:

Vaan - FFXII

Gay guy from Valkyria Chronicles

K.O.Kiki

noodler wrote:

Gay guy from Valkyria Chronicles

Jann == BEST LANCER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFEIcdoiBvQ

Retr0gamer

Yep, Jann is awesome in both how great he is and for comedic potential.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yep, Jann is awesome in both how great he is and for comedic potential.

Your love for the overly camp and/or slapstick is well recognised.