Yankee Candle Fire

rossc007

Hi,

Just looking for some advice.

We had a yankee candle wax burner catch fire the other day, luckily it was on the kitchen hob, so no damage was done. I put the fire out by putting a pot on top of the burner, the fire went out, a couple of seonds later it went up again! The tealight underneath had burnt out so the heat had set it off.

I reported it to owner of the shop where we purchased the burner and the wax tart and he said that it was our fault. He said that he could see from the soot inside the burner that we had more that just a tealight in the burner?? He also said that he could see marks from three tealights. Bare in mind that we had been using this burner for 2 months before it caught fire.

I wasnt going to chase this down until this guy got aggressive, but now Im going to see it out to its conclusion. Realistically, if this burner had of been somewhere else, there could have been a serious problem.

Any suggestions as to what I can do?

amdublin

I would assume there is a warning somewhere on it / on the box / instruction leaflet saying open flames (ie. the candle/tealight) should not be left unattended.

Even if there isn't common sense dictates imo.

What I am saying is: sounds very unfortunate and dangerous that your unit went on fire but thank god you were there and stopped it getting much worse. It is an open flame at the end of the day.....

rossc007

No warning labels and it wasnt left unattended, I was in the room at the time and was able to put out the fire, thank god!

Im not sure if your aware of the unit I was using, but the open flame never actually comes in contact with the oil. The thing that surprised me the most was that after I completely extingusised the fire, it started buy up again a coulpe of seconds later.

I willing to look at this objectively, I am out of line in thinking that this shouldnt happen?

amdublin

Hey rossc,

No, not saying you left it unattended.

I am saying these should not be left unattended because of the risk. Rightly, you did not leave it unattended and you were there when it went on fire (thank god)

I found this on the Yankee website.......apparently you are supposed to extinguish when the fragrance reaches your satisfaction :eek: I never knew that about oil burners. I always thought as long as you have water and oil in them you could let them go as long as you wanted.

http://www.yankeecandle.com/cgi-bin/ycbvp/ycContent.jsp?page=%2FNavigation%2FNon+Product+Left%2FCustomer+Service%2FSafety+And+Burn+Times

Short answer OP is........I don't know!

Let us know how you get on!

amdublin

rossc007 wrote: »

Hi,

The tealight underneath had burnt out so the heat had set it off.

Maybe it had been left on/lit for too long??

wmpdd3

Was it one of these?

http://www.yankeecandle.com/cgi-bin/ycbvp/listing.jsp?category=/Retail/Home+%26%2338;+Car+Fragrance/Home+Fragrance+Oil+Warmers

Hard to see what the fuel for the fire would be.....soot?

yankee.ie

Hi

Myself & my wife operate the Yankee.ie webstore and the Yankee Candle store in Toughers Business Park, Naas that the OP was in.

He called in on Friday and claimed that the oil had gone on fire when using a Yankee Candle wax tart in a tart burner.

He admitted on Friday that 2 tea lights were in the burner, that it was on a hob and that a fan was on too.

He was asked to bring it on the next day (he had not got it with him on the Friday) and I examined it.

Any issue like this is treated quite seriously by both ourselves & Yankee Candle, but at the same time, the products and accessories are made to a very high safety standard.

On inspection, the tart burner itself was still in one piece and was not damaged in any way except for it being almost fully covered in black soot.

Therefore the only way which ithe oil could have caught light was due to excessive heat being applied from under the wax well.

Wax burners (any brand) work by placing a single tealight in the base and this creates heat that melts the wax in the well above. Standard tea lights have a 4-6 hour burn time and all wax burners will melt the wax safely once these basic instructions are adhered to. Safety notices are always attached to both wax burners (on a tag) and the wax tarts (pictogram on base) of all makes (EU regulations)

In this case, there were three circular marks close together in a triangular manner in the bottom of the wax burners - all the size of tea lights. All other parts of the inside of the burner were covered by black soot. This suggested that 3 tea lights were used at the same time in the burner, causing excessive heat which in turn caused the melted wax catch fire. Even 2 tea lights would have caused excessive heat after a while.

Unfortuantely the OP was not interested in my opinion nor in my offer of sending the item to Yankee Candle for further examination. The OP stated that only one tea light had been in the wax burner, but then said there could have been 2. (he had ssaid on Friday that there were 2 tea lights in the burner)

And whilst this a bye the bye - the product in question has not been in our stock since December 2009 (the Naas store opened in mid May) - but we at all times would always (and have always) deal with any query about any Yankee candle product whether purchased from us or not.

The offer still stands for the product and a report to be sent to Yankee Candle.

The OP left the store with threats of publicising the issue on boards and other media.

Finally to the OP. The tart burner itself can still be used safely (once the soot and spilled wax is cleaned off) as on the inspection I did not see any damage to the product itself and once only one standard tea light is lit in the base.

amdublin

Interesting! Interesting!

Thanks for the post yankee.

Rossc: Their offer to send off to Yankee Candle still stands. If you are still not happy this seems reasonable to me.

Agent_99

Have been using a yankee wax tart burner for over 2 years, never have had any soot build up or wax over heating.

Instruction for melting wax. OP yours must have had some tea light to create a temp of nearly 200C

"Never have the wax in direct contact with the heat source. Wax is like grease, as it has a flash point. In general, wax has a flash point of 390F degrees. A flash point is the point where the wax is so hot that it burst into flames all by itself. So I say "IN GENERAL" the flash point of wax is 390F degrees. I tell everyone - if wax is smoking, it is too hot. The vapors produced are extremely flammable for any heat source like a stove."

rossc007

I'm glad we can have an open honest debate about this now, Im sure your attitude will change now that we are in a public forum.

Let me just clear up a few of your mis-conceptions so that we can get the scenario 100% clear.

1. The Yankee candle was sitting on the Kitchen hob, the fan was never mentioned by me. But to clear it up, the fan was not on. The only time anyone would put on an extractor fan on a kitchen hob is if they where cooking, we where obviously not cooking as the burner was sitting on the hob.

2. Just to clear up the tea light issue. I didnt light the burner, but when I put it out there was 2 lights underneath, both extinguished. My girlfriend lit the burner, she said she put one new tealight because the other was empty, she pushed the empty one to the back of the burner. I didnt really think this relevant until you started arguing with me. Part of the reason I became so irate is that you insisted that we had 3 tea lights in the burner, lighting at the same time. How you knew this, there was three marks in the bottom of burner. This was your irrefutable evidence, one that I can 100% deny.

3. I'd didnt come to your store looking for any gratuity or refunds. I think thats clear because I came into the shop on Friday, empty handed, to purchase a new burner, of which you where out of stock. The girl in the shop, who was extremely pleasant and I've dealt with before asked me to bring the burner in on Saturday. My mother, girlfriend, brother and his wife all came to the store on Saturday to make purchases, up until this point the issue in my eyes was minor.

4. The equipment we used was bought in your store. When you asked my girlfriend when she bought the item she said she thought it was about three months ago. Your response was that you only opened in May, well heres news, May was three months ago. Now your say you where out of stock, which if I was as suspicious as yourself, I would find decidedly convenient.

5. Your response to my concerns was this, and the people with me can vouch for this. We had misused the item and it was our fault, that excessive heat had caused the problem and that if you sent it back to Yankee Candle they would say the same thing.

6. My girlfriend loves Yankee Candles, as Im sure may people do. My problem was not with the product, as such. My issue was with your defensive, irresponsible attitude. Had you have simply said that you would send the burner back to Yankee, instead of throwing accusations at me, I would have made a purchase in your store and been on my way, simple as.

When something like this happens, the consumer hasn't alot of options. Seeing as our argument in your store was going nowhere, I will admit I did say that I would put our dispute up on boards.ie.... Other media? Are you suggesting I left your store saying this story was going to be on RTE or the front page of the indo? I think my actions back exactly what I said, that I was going to put this up on Boards.ie. Im a consumer, and I have an issue with a product where the supplier was dismissive and rude, where else can I go? Thats what this thread was about

I'll post pictures later if anyone is interested.

rossc007

Agent_99 wrote: »

Have been using a yankee wax tart burner for over 2 years, never have had any soot build up or wax over heating.

Instruction for melting wax. OP yours must have had some tea light to create a temp of nearly 200C

"Never have the wax in direct contact with the heat source. Wax is like grease, as it has a flash point. In general, wax has a flash point of 390F degrees. A flash point is the point where the wax is so hot that it burst into flames all by itself. So I say "IN GENERAL" the flash point of wax is 390F degrees. I tell everyone - if wax is smoking, it is too hot. The vapors produced are extremely flammable for any heat source like a stove."

Hi Agent 99,

I agree with what your saying. The tea lights that where in the burner where bought in Dunnes, nothing out of the ordinary. I wouldnt have any kind of argument if the product had been misused, luckily no damage was done apart from the burner itself, I wanst looking for any kind of compensation. Can you imagine how many tea lights you would have to light to boil a pot of water?

zuroph

why were you buying a new one if the old one wasnt damaged? And why refuse the customer service option to return it to Yankee Candles for inspection?

Wompa1

Hard to know who is in the right. Shop owners can be c*nts and customers can be c*nts. Show us the pictures!

Diddler1977

OP, you are in communication with the shop involved. No need to continue with the "he said, she said" on a public forum.

Most people come on here for advice (which you have got).

Continue your discussions with the shop owner in their but I think it is unfair to be on here repeating what was said given that the owner is trying to ascertain what happened. You on the other hand turned down the opportunity to investigate - why didn't you allow it be sent back to the parent company????

iMax

Not to jump on any bandwagons, but I've had an almost exact same experience (fire from one of these units - not dealing with yankee.ie).

About 12/18 months ago, we were using half a tart (we always used only half of one) in an oil burner (not an official YC one) when it suddenly combusted & a flame about two feet high was burning from the oil/wax.

It was in the sitting room & we were lucky that the damage caused was not more serious, mostly smoke & fire extinguisher powder. It was however extremely frightning for all concerned & we haven't had them in the house since.

The burner we were using was about five years old & would have had considerable use, for this reason I put it down to perhaps the ceramic it was made of being damaged in some way. I did inspect it & there was no sign of any damage. I suspect the wax/oil superheated & combusted. Either way I'm not going to be using that type of thing again (which is a real shame because they are the best of the lot.

I commend Yankee.ie coming on to defend his side, so many retailers would just ignore the issue. Hopefully the seller & purchaser can find a suitable resolution

rossc007

zuroph wrote: »

why were you buying a new one if the old one wasnt damaged? And why refuse the customer service option to return it to Yankee Candles for inspection?

Hi guys,

I can see your point.

The argument was getting a little heated, which made me uncomfortable. To be honest I thought it best to keep the evidence with the way things were going. If you could put yourself in my shoes for a second, I was being accused of something I know 100% to be false, it was infuriating. I had given the burner to the guy and asked him to see what Yankee say, but I was afraid he was just going to bin it, I was shocked with his attitude. So thats the reason I didnt leave it with him.

I suppose my best option now is to send it back to Yankee myself.

@Imax I ran a google search to see if I could find anything, but nothing came up. So, while I empathize with your situation, I also feel slightly relieved that someone believes me! Although I you had of been subject to accusations about misuse, Im sure you would have felt hard done by?

iMax

Absolutely. Was just posting to back up the claim that these things do happen.

yankee.ie

Hi

I still have no issue with sending the product to Yankee Candle themselves, but they will give a similar answer to what I gave to which the OP was not happy with.

There is absolutely no way we would have discarded the product as this would be of no use in resolving the issue and not in either the interests of ourselves as one of the largest Yankee Candle Retailers in Ireland or for the OP to have a responce to the issue.

The fire was caused by overheating of the wax. This was caused by either 2 or more tea lights being placed under the well of wax. The only other possiblility is a faulty tea light that had too high a flame (very rare).

Yes the argument got heated towards he end as there were 4 poeple disagreeing with my comment on the issue (same comment as oulined in earlier post) and no-one was interested in having the process explained or the reason why only one tea light should be used in these warmers.

Regarding where the product comes from - I have no issue whether or not the product was purchased from this store, but the item in question (red smash mosaic) has not been in our stock since December 2009. But in any case, there is no fault with the burner itself. The issue is with the flaming of the wax which can only be caused by excessive heat and therefore either the product was either not used properly (more than one tea light being used) or a faulty tea light was used.

As with any candle or wax product, it should always be left away from draughts, not placed on any heated surface and at all times should not be left unoccupied.

If the OP wishes to send the item to Yankee Candle directly the address is

Yankee Candle Europe (attention Catherine Thomas)
Bristol Distribution Park
Bradley Stoke
Bristol
BS32 0BF

rossc007

yankee.ie wrote: »

The fire was caused by overheating of the wax. This was caused by either 2 or more tea lights being placed under the well of wax. The only other possiblility is a faulty tea light that had too high a flame (very rare).

Yes the argument got heated towards he end as there were 4 poeple disagreeing with my comment on the issue (same comment as oulined in earlier post) and no-one was interested in having the process explained or the reason why only one tea light should be used in these warmers.

The only other possibility? I hope people can now appreciate what I was dealing with on the day. Did you read the post where the same thing happened to someone else with one tea light?? You constantly repeated that we had put three tea lights into the burner and that "Thats what yankee would tell you", your like a dog with a bone.

One lit tea light caused the fire, the same as the poster above, thankfully no real damage was done. I'll deal with Yankee directly as far as returning the burner is concerned.

Yankee candles are an excellent product, just be wary of these oil burners and buy from a reputable company who wont treat you like a criminal if you have a problem.

Thanks to the other posters for they're opinions\comments for either side

Candelabra

I was in the shop at the time the Op was stating his case. I use the word "case" as the guy in the shop started to behave as though he were a forensic expert and decided the consumer was at fault(judge,jury and executioner). It was the total lack of cutomer care that I saw as a sign not to buy any products from this retailer as I would hate to have to face the bombardment should I have a query or God forgive me a Complaint!! He told the customer What Yankee would say...would he not let Yankee draw their own conclusions and the profer the correct and hopefully scientific conclusions. This would at least help the consumer to avoid any unnecessary inconvenience with a possible fire-hazzard...

yankee.ie

Candelabra wrote: »

I was in the shop at the time the Op was stating his case. I use the word "case" as the guy in the shop started to behave as though he were a forensic expert and decided the consumer was at fault(judge,jury and executioner). It was the total lack of cutomer care that I saw as a sign not to buy any products from this retailer as I would hate to have to face the bombardment should I have a query or God forgive me a Complaint!! He told the customer What Yankee would say...would he not let Yankee draw their own conclusions and the profer the correct and hopefully scientific conclusions. This would at least help the consumer to avoid any unnecessary inconvenience with a possible fire-hazzard...

The only 4 people in the store were the OP, his girlfriend, his brother & his mother. There was no-one else in the store at the time and the next customer in a couple of minutes later after the OP and his family had gone was a very regular customer.

As I said, the issue was quite simple, too much heat had caused the wax to flame. This heat was caused by at least 2 tea lights being burned. The OP stated on friday that there were 2 Tea lights in the burner.

Unfortunately the OP and his family did not like being told the probable cause of how the flame started and refused an offer for the product to be sent to Yankee Candle.

The product itself is still perfectly safe to use (with one tea light as per instruction) as it did not crack or break despite the high temperature.


I can't see how much further I can be of assistance.


The other option could have been is to be overly nice to the customer, say nothing whatsoever and get Yankee to send out a standard letter. But then the OP could have continued to use 2 or more tea light in a tart burner and possibly have a serious accident.

My preference is to give the information, even if the person does not like it. At the end of the day, its better to forewarned about the potential dangers of any wax or oil products if used incorrectly.

rossc007

That was my mother posting last time, despite my asking her not to.

I'll keep this simple, did you read the other post where the user had one tea light lighting and there was a fire? Is it completely outside the realms of possibility that the same thing could have happened to me? Or are we both liars?

yankee.ie

rossc007 wrote: »

That was my mother posting last time, despite my asking her not to.

I'll keep this simple, did you read the other post where the user had one tea light lighting and there was a fire? Is it completely outside the realms of possibility that the same thing could have happened to me? Or are we both liars?

I cannot make any comment on something I have not seen.

I can only comment on the information you gave (2 tea light were used) and the visual inspection of the unit. (3 tea light marks). These products are only suitable for one tea light.

The flame was caused by excessive heat and the burner itself is still in useable condition and did not get damaged in anyway except for spilled wax & black soot.

Another option is to have the National Safety Authority to examine the product. Their details are at www.nsa.ie

rossc007

I cannot make any comment on something I have not seen.

If that was true, then this thread wouldn't exist.... You past comment on something that caught fire and where able to determine the cause, amazing!

If you had of just taken the goods and sent them to Yankee candle for a response like I asked in the first place, instead of second guessing them and throwing accusations at me, that would have been normal customer service.

I honestly hope no one else has to return anything to any of your stores, I'm worn out.

jpb1974

If that was true, then this thread wouldn't exist....

I wish it were true... this thread is a farce... its nothing more than a public tit-for-tat argument at this stage with people's mothers chipping in :rolleyes:

smelltheglove

Op sorry for your troubles, I am sure it was a frightening episode.

Yankee fair play to you coming on to try and clear the issue up but come on, all sense can tell you just because there are 2/3 tealight marks on the base does not mean all of them were lit, plenty of people could just insert a new tealight when an old runs out without removing the old container! Its hardly rocket science.

I have dealt with very very disgruntled customers in my past as a customer care assistant in a large department store, I am not saying the OP is one of those but I have a feeling yankee may have seen him that way. In my experience I have always without fail treated the customer with kindness, kill with kindness as they say. Stating the guidelines of use is fair enough and well done to Yankee for ensuring the customer knew that but is it possible at all that Yankee may have come across as arrogant in the process of explanation?

Yankee you may not have thought you were arrogant but the op obviously has issues with the way you treated him so I would assume you may have unknowingly come across this way, I have found when a customer became frustrated at the process in my past the best way to treat it is by saying along the lines of 'I am really sorry if you find this arrogant but my job description means I do need to tell you the guidelines of use, I know you most likely are aware of them but I still need to say them and I can understand your frustrations so please bear with me'. I had customers swear at me with management standing by watching and my main aim was still to ensure that the customer would walk away satisfied in the knowledge that their complaint was going to be seen to best as possible.

rossc007

smelltheglove wrote: »

Op sorry for your troubles, I am sure it was a frightening episode.

Yankee fair play to you coming on to try and clear the issue up but come on, all sense can tell you just because there are 2/3 tealight marks on the base does not mean all of them were lit, plenty of people could just insert a new tealight when an old runs out without removing the old container! Its hardly rocket science.

I have dealt with very very disgruntled customers in my past as a customer care assistant in a large department store, I am not saying the OP is one of those but I have a feeling yankee may have seen him that way. In my experience I have always without fail treated the customer with kindness, kill with kindness as they say. Stating the guidelines of use is fair enough and well done to Yankee for ensuring the customer knew that but is it possible at all that Yankee may have come across as arrogant in the process of explanation?

Yankee you may not have thought you were arrogant but the op obviously has issues with the way you treated him so I would assume you may have unknowingly come across this way, I have found when a customer became frustrated at the process in my past the best way to treat it is by saying along the lines of 'I am really sorry if you find this arrogant but my job description means I do need to tell you the guidelines of use, I know you most likely are aware of them but I still need to say them and I can understand your frustrations so please bear with me'. I had customers swear at me with management standing by watching and my main aim was still to ensure that the customer would walk away satisfied in the knowledge that their complaint was going to be seen to best as possible.

Thanks mate, funny enough, I didn't go in disgruntled but I sure came out that way

Head The Wall

Too many customers believe in the "The customer is always right" mantra. No one likes to be told they are doing something wrong.

OP you stated to the shop owner that there was more than 1 tealight in the unit. Even if only one was lit initially the second may have caught light from a breeze, someone walking by etc.
There is according to Yankee.ie scorch marks outlining 3 tealights in the unit. This would indicate that you had 3 tealights underneath it at the time it went up in flames. That says you didn't follow the instructions.

tc2010

Working in Customer service i can say that theres nothing worse than a crowd of people arguing with one person.

Gets way too heated way too easily.

No offence but if your mother comes on boards arguing i can only imagine what it was like in the shop

rossc007

tc2010 wrote: »

Working in Customer service i can say that theres nothing worse than a crowd of people arguing with one person.

Gets way too heated way too easily.

No offence but if your mother comes on boards arguing i can only imagine what it was like in the shop

Fair point, but it wasn't until the discussion got heated that brought it to the attention of the aul wan... Initially it was just me and the guy who owned the shop.

Seems to be a little confusion about the tea lights, there where 2 in it, one that was used (i.e. wouldn't light) and a new one. The old one was pushed to the back, seems to be a point of contention with people.

Looks like people are divided on this one, thats the nature of debate though I suppose

jpb1974

Seems to be a little confusion about the tea lights, there where 2 in it, one that was used (i.e. wouldn't light) and a new one. The old one was pushed to the back, seems to be a point of contention with people.

I'd test it thoroughly and see if I could replicate the issue based on the recommended guidelines of strictly one tea light only... if you can then there's a problem.