Toilet trouble!

BRM · 16-08-2010 10:00am #1

Im having problems with my toilet recently it seems the flush is not emptying the cistern fully. I have to pull the handle 2-3 times to fully empty it and by that time the power is gone in the flush.

Its not one of these push putton toilets, it’s the more conventional handle style.

Does anyone know what might be wrong and can the internals of the cistern be easily replaced? Its about 10 yr old but the toilet is in good condition and it dosent seem like a terminal problem or is it?

Buford T Justice · 16-08-2010 12:19pm

The diaphragm in the flush mechanism could be worn. Should be easily replaceable, just ask any plumber providers like heatmerchants.

BRM · 16-08-2010 12:39pm

Is this also known as a "flap valve" - been doing a bit of research on line and it could be the same value as the one you mention.

"The flap valve sits at the base of the cistern, and is operated by depressing the handle on the front of the toilet. When depressed, the lever lifts a flexible plastic diaphram (the flap valve) which allows the water in the cistern to flow through the siphon trap into the pan. As the water level lowers in the cistern, so does the flap valve until it closes over the plate, blocking the siphon and thus stopping the flow of water. As the water level rises again in the cistern the flap valve stays in place.
Replacing the flap valve

Isolate the cistern in the plumbing system, or if there is no isolating valve turn off the mains water supply
Drain a toilet cistern by flushing the toilet
Disconnect the flushing arm inside the cistern
Using a wrench, unscrew the large nut holding the flush pipe onto the base of the cistern
Move the flush pipe slightly to one side, place a bucket underneath and unscrew the retaining nut which holds the siphon to the base of the cistern
Lift the siphon assembly out of the cistern and take the diaphram off of the metal plate
Replace the worn diaphram with an identical sized new one
Reassemble the flusing mechanism and attach the flush pipe
Turn on the water supply and watch closely for leaks as the cistern fills

"

Joey the lips · 16-08-2010 7:45pm

I doubt its a flap valve i would say if its lever its a standard lever. Take a picture with the cistern lid off...

as fingers says it is prob only the diaphragm and provided you get the right one it will only cost you a couple of euro and a little time...Its quite easy to replace.

danger_mouse_tm · 12-09-2010 6:23pm

So we are in the same boat. About five or six agressive flushes to get the water to go down. I have searched around the internet about this but any utube videos i have come across seem to show a far simpler toilet version.

Our toilet is made by a company called Twyford. The syphon appears to be a sealed unit, bonded to the floor of the cistern with silicone. Another problem is that we are in an appartment and i don't think we can turn off just our own water. If we could, i would imagine that the whole system would have to be drained before the water would stop coming into the toilet. Another (minor) problem is when i hold up the stop cock and flush the toilet there is about three or four litres of water still in it.

I spoke to one plumber and he reckoned that the toilet would probably have to be removed from the wall and completely dissasembled. That's a big job which he wasn't prepared to do.

Any ideas on this before i revert to a pail of water in the bath?

Joey the lips · 12-09-2010 6:51pm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

So we are in the same boat. About five or six agressive flushes to get the water to go down. I have searched around the internet about this but any utube videos i have come across seem to show a far simpler toilet version.

Our toilet is made by a company called Twyford. The syphon appears to be a sealed unit, bonded to the floor of the cistern with silicone. Another problem is that we are in an appartment and i don't think we can turn off just our own water. If we could, i would imagine that the whole system would have to be drained before the water would stop coming into the toilet. Another (minor) problem is when i hold up the stop cock and flush the toilet there is about three or four litres of water still in it.

I spoke to one plumber and he reckoned that the toilet would probably have to be removed from the wall and completely dissasembled. That's a big job which he wasn't prepared to do.

Any ideas on this before i revert to a pail of water in the bath?

Its unusual that they are bonded and twyfords are done by a company called john usher in ballycoolin blanchardstown in ireland. If it were me i would phone john usher and get your nearest shop then order a syphon for a close couple cistern. They are fairly interchangable and the 20 euro spent on the syphon would be worth the risk. You will not need to turn off the water just tie the ball up in the air....

But have an idea of where the water is switched off from just in case.

danger_mouse_tm · 12-09-2010 6:58pm

Sound enough. I will give him a call tomorrow. I'm going to go and have another look at it now and see if there is some way that it is clipped down.

danger_mouse_tm · 12-09-2010 7:06pm

Ok so it defenately looks as though the cistern comes up and away from the toilet bowel. I have found two wing nuts under the cistern. So if the cistern comes up then the water needs to be turned off first. I am guessing that when i lift this up then there will be some way of unscrewing the syphon from the bottom.

Joey the lips · 12-09-2010 8:17pm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

Ok so it defenately looks as though the cistern comes up and away from the toilet bowel. I have found two wing nuts under the cistern. So if the cistern comes up then the water needs to be turned off first. I am guessing that when i lift this up then there will be some way of unscrewing the syphon from the bottom.

Thats not how you change in. In the cistern there is a threaded pce half way down the syphon... If there is not then yes all the cistern will have to come off as you describe above.

Thoie · 12-09-2010 8:24pm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

Another problem is that we are in an appartment and i don't think we can turn off just our own water.

It would be unusual not to be able to switch off your own water. In my apartment there's a tank in a press. Cold water comes in the top, and the heater tank is on the bottom. Up at the top of the tank there's a stop cock. Poke around in various presses/under the sink etc in the apartment and you might find it.

danger_mouse_tm · 14-09-2010 12:01pm

Thoie wrote: »

It would be unusual not to be able to switch off your own water. In my apartment there's a tank in a press. Cold water comes in the top, and the heater tank is on the bottom. Up at the top of the tank there's a stop cock. Poke around in various presses/under the sink etc in the apartment and you might find it.

So this is where we are at. I went outside and found a cover labeled W with eight shut off valves. I took an educated guess and turned one off. I have managed to stop the water coming into the kitchen sink and the upstairs bath ( both on the same level) The upstairs toilet (the one with the problem) and the upstairs bathroom sink is still running on full pressure. Two bathrooms downstairs - the toilets are filling at reduced pressure two sinks are filling at full speed and as are the shower and the bath downstairs.

We are in a duplex appartment block. My neighbour (who also lives in a downstairs appartment reckons there is a huge tank in the roof apex for each appartment.

The water has been running for half an hour now.

I am going around to do another flush!

danger_mouse_tm · 14-09-2010 1:59pm

So it wasn't my water i turned off at all. The only reason why the show downhstairs stopped and some of the stuff upstairs was becuase i was using so much water downstairs the pressure eventually died down.

None the less the pressure went off the toilet upstairs and i got the water mopped out of the bottom of the cistern.

I uncoupled the inlet valve from the side of the toilet and took off the cistern. I was then able to remove the syphon by unscrewing the retaining nut underneat. I disasembed the whole syphon and found that the diaphram had more or less disintgrated over time.

€1.15 in the co op bought me a replacement one. I took off all the excess silicone from around the cistern and reassembled the syphon putting fresh silicone around the syphon before putting it back in the cistern.

I should have really replaced the close coupling washer between the cistern and the toilet. The foam one that i took off is a bit raggity. But it's back together now anyway. I have tied up the stop cock with string and a piece of wood over the top. I will leave it for a day anyway and hope the silincone drys forming a good seal.

If it fails i thing i will just go out and buy one of those complete conversion kits that i saw in B&Q yesterday for €55. It looks like the right job. I have a pain in my face replacing lousy toilet handles.

Joey the lips · 14-09-2010 5:52pm

danger_mouse_tm wrote: »

I should have really replaced the close coupling washer between the cistern and the toilet. The foam one that i took off is a bit raggity. But it's back together now anyway. .

The donut as it use to be called... Well done anyway you would be amazed who would not chance it.

Toilet trouble!

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