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Help, Advice needed

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  • 16-08-2010 2:04pm
    #1
    DeviantD
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭


    Hi,
    I need to get some advice on this matter.
    We were lookning to rent a house in Dublin, found the house and agreed with the landlord all the details of the rent and items with in the house.
    I paid the security deposit into the landlords bank account and we were due to move in on a wednesday but we had to pull out due to unfore seen circumstances. We never signed the PRTB contract and now the landlord refused to repay the deposit saying he incurred costs as a result of us not taking the house and we are liable so he will not refund the deposit.

    Where do i stand in relation to getting my deposit back and what sort of legal action should i take.

    Regards.
    D


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    #2
    Cathmandooo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,324 ✭✭✭✭Cathmandooo


    Was it a security deposit or a holding deposit? Did you pay rent as well?


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    #3
    DeviantD
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭DeviantD


    Hi,
    It was never stated wether it was a security or holding deposit.
    No we never paid any rent up front.

    Regards
    D


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    #4
    Cathmandooo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,324 ✭✭✭✭Cathmandooo


    If it was equal to a months rent then it would be a security deposit.

    It's a tricky situation and bad form on the landlord's part to keep it unless it was a holding deposit.

    Only thing you can do is apply to the www.prtb.ie to open a case on it. In the future don't hand any money over until you're signing an agreement/lease and are moving in.


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    #5
    bugler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭bugler


    The landlord may have legitimate costs to cover though:

    - Cost of re-listing the property for let.
    - A vacant period, up until the time he gets/got new tenants.

    I would think any retention after that is unreasonable. Be advised though, that this area is in sore need of better and clearer legislation.


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    #6
    DeviantD
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭DeviantD


    Cathooo wrote: »
    If it was equal to a months rent then it would be a security deposit.

    It's a tricky situation and bad form on the landlord's part to keep it unless it was a holding deposit.

    Only thing you can do is apply to the www.prtb.ie to open a case on it. In the future don't hand any money over until you're signing an agreement/lease and are moving in.


    Thanks for the advice; I have learned my lesson now. I have called the PRTB and they will not get involved as we have not lived in the premises and no contracts were signed.

    I don’t agree with someone keeping money for having to re-let a property, or associated costs but that is me being biased.

    In a point of law is the landlord entitled to keep the deposit. Any one had similar experience.

    Cheers
    D


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    #7
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    DeviantD wrote: »
    I don’t agree with someone keeping money for having to re-let a property, or associated costs but that is me being biased.


    so you think its ok for people to screw landlords over and make them incur costs and lose other potential tennants just because they change their mind ?

    would you therfore be ok with the situation if it was that you paid a deposit and on the day you were due to move in the landlord decided he didnt want to let to you anymore with you perhaps having to incur costs of the hire of a moving van, hotel accomadation whilst trying to find somewhere else to live etc ?

    I thought not.


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    #8
    Cathmandooo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,324 ✭✭✭✭Cathmandooo


    A landlord cannot use a deposit to cover the cost of reletting.

    From Citizens information:
    Deposits
    As a landlord, you may withhold a deposit (or part of a deposit) only if:

    The tenant has not given you proper notice when leaving
    You have been left with outstanding bills (i.e., public utilities) or rent
    The tenant has caused damage beyond normal wear and tear.

    However given that you're not covered by the PRTB I'm really not sure you can do anything.

    If I were you I'd contact the landlord and tell him you're opening a case with the PRTB, even though you can't open the case but he doesn't necessarily know that.

    Maybe offer a settlement if the property had been taken off the market for a period of time for you?


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    #9
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Cathooo wrote: »
    A landlord cannot use a deposit to cover the cost of reletting.

    From Citizens information:
    Deposits
    As a landlord, you may withhold a deposit (or part of a deposit) only if:

    The tenant has not given you proper notice when leaving
    You have been left with outstanding bills (i.e., public utilities) or rent
    The tenant has caused damage beyond normal wear and tear.

    I dont believe that covers this circumstance. To me theres a difference between a security deposit and a booking desposit.

    the above only covers what the landlord can do with a security deposit. As in this case the deposit was paid before any rent was that implies it was a booking deposit and as theres nothing contrary to this in terms of written or verbal agreements the landlord isnt bound by the above.

    now of course the OP can go to court if they want and try to recover their deposit. I wouldnt be so confident they would win though.


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    #10
    Cathmandooo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,324 ✭✭✭✭Cathmandooo


    D3PO wrote: »
    I dont believe that covers this circumstance. To me theres a difference between a security deposit and a booking desposit.

    the above only covers what the landlord can do with a security deposit. As in this case the deposit was paid before any rent was that implies it was a booking deposit and as theres nothing contrary to this in terms of written or verbal agreements the landlord isnt bound by the above.

    now of course the OP can go to court if they want and try to recover their deposit. I wouldnt be so confident they would win though.

    Yeah I know, the OP hasn't given much information really, could be a holding deposit which is perfectly standard to be taken away or it could be a months rent deposit which shouldn't have been paid until signing a lease and should be accommpanied by a months rent. Sounds all very messy/dodgy to me.


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    #11
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,994 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    What was the point of a holding deposit, if not to give the landlord some assurance you wouldn't pull out?

    It was not a security deposit, as you have not taken possession.

    Only when purchasing a house do you get the full security deposit back... it is purely goodwill gesture.

    But for renting... As a landlord I would take some advertising cost and a contribution towards days vacant, depending on circumstances. I only ever ask for a couple of hundred holding anyway.


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    #12
    bugler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭bugler


    The landlord shouldn't lose out on a change of mind of the tenant (even if the change was forced by circumstance). Looking at it objectively on the only facts we have, the tenant and landlord came to an agreement, and the tenant is now reneging on that agreement.

    As D3PO has pointed out, if the shoe was on the other foot it would be unfair on the tenant. So it is unfair on the landlord.

    The equitable solution to me would be that the landlord should have attempted to re-let the dwelling. Any vacant period that would have been avoided had the OP stuck to the agreement would be taken out of the deposit, along with any cost for relisting (if there was any).

    Without knowing specifics we can't say to what extent the LL is out of pocket. If he only lost 10 days to vacancy it doesn't seem fair to retain a month's rent. If the landlord is citing expenses he should be able to back them up.


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    #13
    DeviantD
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭DeviantD


    Quote - Yeah I know, the OP hasn't given much information really, could be a holding deposit which is perfectly standard to be taken away or it could be a months rent deposit which shouldn't have been paid until signing a lease and should be accommpanied by a months rent. Sounds all very messy/dodgy to me.

    Hi,

    I assure you that there was nothing dodgy going on here. We were genuinely going to rent the property, but we had to pull out at the last minute. The money was paid over as a security deposit with the first month’s rent due on signing of the contract.

    So what happen D3PO if the landlord can’t rent the place for a year due to bad market, am I responsible for his loss of rent for a year. I don’t think so.

    If the shoe was on the other foot and the property was taken off me at the last minute, well then that's my tuff luck I guess, what could i do, charge him for my expenses. It’s easier for a landlord to bully someone when you have their money.

    I appreciate the feedback from both sides of the fence and i wish i could have avoided this situation for the landlord, but it happened and i want to be fair.

    Regards
    D


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    #14
    omega666
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭omega666


    a holding deposit is only usually a couple hundred euro,
    a security deposit is usually equal to a months rent.

    so it was obviously a security deposit paid and the landlord is not entitled
    to keep it.

    How long was it till you agreed to rent the place/paid the deposit to informing
    the landlord you were pulling out of the deal?

    Depening on the above time frame i would offer the landlord some compensation for advertsing/time wasted from the deposit and demand the rest back.


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