Windows Phone 7 Launch Thread

DjFlin

Microsoft confirms no upgrade path to Windows Phone 8, unveils 7.8 for legacy devices

Dyr

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Their is only so much you can do with legacy hardware in all fairness.

Tell that to the poor bastards who shelled out on lumias before today, it smacks of desperation on MS part, they've switched horses yet again. Who's gonna trust them when they can't quit the habit of abandoning products?

sink

Bambi wrote: »

Tell that to the poor bastards who shelled out on lumias before today, it smacks of desperation on MS part, they've switched horses yet again. Who's gonna trust them when they can't quit the habit of abandoning products?

7.8 seems to have almost all of the feature updates of 8, only lacking in support for new hardware which WP7 phones don't have anyway. It also makes sense that new WP8 apps compiled to work with higher hardware specs will not work with lower end hardware, whilst still allowing apps which don't leverage the new hardware to work on both 7&8. I don't see the problem here tbh, it's like complaining the Xbox you bought won't play Xbox 360 games.

DjFlin

I'm happy enough with what Windows Phone 7.8 will deliver when it launches alongside Windows Phone 8.

What I'm not happy about is what comes next.

When the Zune HD launched, Microsoft came out with an update for the previous Zune models, then never went near them again.

I'm betting that once WP8 hits, the WP7 marketplace is going to freeze. Most major apps will be abandoned by their developers.

gman2k

sink wrote: »

7.8 seems to have almost all of the feature updates of 8, only lacking in support for new hardware which WP7 phones don't have anyway. It also makes sense that new WP8 apps compiled to work with higher hardware specs will not work with lower end hardware, whilst still allowing apps which don't leverage the new hardware to work on both 7&8. I don't see the problem here tbh, it's like complaining the Xbox you bought won't play Xbox 360 games.

The only capability from 8 that was announced today as coming to 7.8 was the new start screen.

Dyr

sink wrote: »

I don't see the problem here tbh, it's like complaining the Xbox you bought won't play Xbox 360 games.

Um no. It's like buying an xbox 720 in q4 2013 only to find out in q1 2014 that the next xbox live update is going to require a completely new xbox (the 720+ for example) and whats more it will utilise a completely different architecture so you have no hope of ever seeing any games even ported for the orginal 720.

It's what people feared about Windows Phone at launch, Microsoft reverting back to their Pinky and the Brain mode where every week a new plan for world domination is set in place only to be abandoned just as quickly.

I would expect 7.8 is going to be a PR fig leaf to try cover the flip flop that they just perfomed. Anbd tbh they can keep that new start screen, it's manky

evolutionqy7

Bambi wrote: »

sink wrote: »

I don't see the problem here tbh, it's like complaining the Xbox you bought won't play Xbox 360 games.

Um no. It's like buying an xbox 720 in q4 2013 only to find out in q1 2014 that the next xbox live update is going to require a completely new xbox (the 720+ for example) and whats more it will utilise a completely different architecture so you have no hope of ever seeing any games even ported for the orginal 720.

It's what people feared about Windows Phone at launch, Microsoft reverting back to their Pinky and the Brain mode where every week a new plan for world domination is set in place only to be abandoned just as quickly.

I would expect 7.8 is going to be a PR fig leaf to try cover the flip flop that they just perfomed. Anbd tbh they can keep that new start screen, it's manky

Oh please, Android does this every month. There's always a newer better device around the corner. Its the nature of technology to always improve.

Can't upgrade old hardware to support new code, which is needed to bring all the features every one has been waiting for.

I'll come out and say it, im not a fan of the way its going, but 7.8 is better than nothing.

I showed the few features to my mum and she didn't really care, as long as she gets her apps she will be happy.
Though the new home screen is more practical it doesn't seem to look as nice as before.

The clean look has been traded for practicality

TBi

I've been an ardent fan of WP7 since i got my Trophy last year. Fantastic OS but how can i recommend people to get one if it will be going obsolete so soon. Who knows if MS will release WP9 and make WP8 totally obsolete?

Glad i didn't upgrade to a Lumia 800 now. I knew it would be last generation hardware but never thought it could be totally obsolete in the next 6 months.

Dyr

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Its common knowledge that MS were going to launch Win phone 8 soon enough. You still have a nice phone so what that something new is coming out??

1) I don't have a lumia

2) You have a nice phone that is now a dead end, nothing worthwhile is going to be developed on it beyond this point. Its the Kin and Zune all over again despite assuraces that this time it would be different :eek:. Nokia must be pulling their hair out at this.

2) It wasn't common knowledge that WP7 devices were going to be shafted within 1.5 years. Especially given the amount that MS waffled about their commitment to the platform. .

Dyr

sink wrote: »

7.8 seems to have almost all of the feature updates of

Linky so, please. The only reference I've seen on MS blogs is they're adding the WP8 menu

TBi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Its common knowledge that MS were going to launch Win phone 8 soon enough. You still have a nice phone so what that something new is coming out??

Apple releases iPhone 3G, all apps for it run on the original iPhone.
Apple releases iPhone 3GS, all apps run on the 3G and original iPhone.
Apple releases iPhone 4 and and all apps run on the 3GS and 3G.
Apple releases iPhone 4s and and all apps run on the 4 and 3GS.

MS release WP7 and no apps run on WM6.5 because it's a major overhaul.
MS release WP8 and no apps run on WP7 because it's a major overhaul.
What happens when WP9 comes out? Screw all the early adopters again?

Apple was smart enough not to screw it's early adopters, even android has some bit of backwards compatibility.

pleasant Co.

TBi wrote: »

Who knows if MS will release WP9 and make WP8 totally obsolete?

Me, and anyone who checked out the info MS provided :P they said wp8 would get at least 18mths of update support, which ain't too shabby.

http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-8-devices-get-18-month-update-promise-20234972/

TBi

Mactard wrote: »

Me, and anyone who checked out the info MS provided :P they said wp8 would get at least 18mths of update support, which ain't too shabby.

http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-8-devices-get-18-month-update-promise-20234972/

I know what they said, but Apple gives 2 years + of support.

When you think about it there's no real reason (except laziness) why they can't get the WP8 kernel working on hardware released in the last 6 months.

Dyr

TBi wrote: »

I know what they said, but Apple gives 2 years + of support.

When you think about it there's no real reason (except laziness) why they can't get the WP8 kernel working on hardware released in the last 6 months.

The funny thing is that when people criticised the weediness of the WP7 hardware guidelines guys like elop poo pooed the necessity of putting dual cores in smart phones..Be grand they said, dual core was just a waste of battery they said. :rolleyes:

I dont have much confidence in their ability to deliver a coherent platform strategy at this stage..WP9 will probably be yet another total departure delivered within a year :pac:

ozymandius

@Bambi

The new RTp OS is designed for newer and future CPUs - with multiple cores. For now maybe even only for the Qualcomm one they announced. What would be the return in also targeting old - soon to be replaced - devices. Also NFC, replaceable SD, multiple screen resolutions support is useless for old devices.

MS would be crazy to ignore multi-core CPUs. Current devices are perfect with the single cores they have. WP8 will have enhanced multitasking to support the likes of Skype and new localisation services, and use those cores. These services don't exist in WP7, so it doesn't need more cores.

Of course the challenge is to control power consumption. We'll see how they do. A recent report from Intel* was quite critical of Android's use dual-cores and wasted power.

For existing devices the big change is the new Start Screen. We'll get that.
Down side is possible lack of new apps. Nokia have committed to support the current devices. The question is the many small developers. Market forces will decide.

My biggie is did they improve notifications. And the Calendar app.

Also, it's not like my L800 just became obsolete. It still does exactly what it did yesterday. Will do more in a week or so (Tango) and still more later in the year (7.8). At which point it'll be about a year old. Time to start looking again.

Peace

* http://www.techspot.com/news/48946-intel-android-just-isnt-ready-for-multi-core-processors.html

AntiVirus

The majority of Apps written after WP8 is released will be targeting WP7.8

There's 15 million WP7 floating about compared to 0 WP8.

I'm surprised some posters seem to think developers don't realize this???

stevenmu

Even though I was expecting it, I'm pretty disappointed that current phones aren't going to be updated. It'll be a huge kick in the teeth for people who recently bought one, especially after all the fanfare around the Lumia 900 launch.

Sure they'll bring some of the new features back to current gen phones, but it's the shared core, APIs and app compatibility that are important. The new APIs will offer stuff not possible in WP7, and before long apps will start requiring WP8. That'll lead to the fragmentation that they have criticised so much. It'll lead to situations where I'll have an app on my phone, and I'll show it to someone else, but they won't be able to download it because they'll have the wrong OS version.

The platform as whole will take a huge knock because of this.

InvisibleBadger

It looks as if the new features are mainly hardware based, so putting wp8 on older phonesthat lack those hardware elements doesn't seem to make much sense.

stevenmu

It's the new APIs and app compatibility that's the real problem. People will understand if things like NFC or video chat won't work because their phone never came with an NFC chip or a front camera, but in a years time when some popular games or bluetooth gadgets work only with WP8 and not WP7.8 they're going to get pretty annoyed by it.

Odaise Gaelach

I'd imagine it's fairly easy to port Windows Phone 8 apps and games back to Windows Phone 7.8. The code base is probably going to be extremely similar, a few tweaks here and there, and you should be able to recompile it and submit it to the Marketplace for Windows Phone 7.8.

evolutionqy7

stevenmu wrote: »

It's the new APIs and app compatibility that's the real problem. People will understand if things like NFC or video chat won't work because their phone never came with an NFC chip or a front camera, but in a years time when some popular games or bluetooth gadgets work only with WP8 and not WP7.8 they're going to get pretty annoyed by it.

Bluetooth is universal so it will work no matter with what gadget. Hardware is hardware. Cant exchange it for existing users. Peole that will get WP7's now will have an update path to 7.8 which is apparently coming in a couple of weeks with an option to for go the carriers.

So in terms of UI and UX 7.8 and 8 are going to be the same. Its just hardware specific features that might not be supported.

Regarding apps I can see some graphics intensive games not being able to run or you wont even see them, but that's again due to hardware.

Regarding coding and WP7.8 and WP8 apps im sure it will be an easy option to make an app made for WP8 to work with WP7.8, otherwise MS would just stab themselves in the back.

The only thing I hope is as some one mentioned before the screen sizes stay down while still having all the features.

stevenmu

Odaise Gaelach wrote: »

I'd imagine it's fairly easy to port Windows Phone 8 apps and games back to Windows Phone 7.8. The code base is probably going to be extremely similar, a few tweaks here and there, and you should be able to recompile it and submit it to the Marketplace for Windows Phone 7.8.

evolutionqy7 wrote:

Bluetooth is universal so it will work no matter with what gadget.

It will depend very much on the APIs. There's quite a few things not possible in the current APIs, Bluetooth access is one of the bigger ones, there's others too, but it makes a good example for the moment. There's lots of cool things you can do with Bluetooth on iOS and Android, you can connect to your smart watch, connect to your car for performance and diagnostic data, there's tons of heart rate monitors and pedometers for fitness apps, there's even a fish finder sonar on the way.

None of these are currently possible on WP7, the hardware would support them, it's just the APIs don't allow for it. The details aren't confirmed yet, but it seems like the WP8 APIs will be far more complete, and it seems likely Bluetooth will be included. Again the details aren't complete, but it also seems likely that the new APIs won't be brought back to WP7.8 which would mean no Bluetooth access. So that'll be a whole class of apps on WP8 that won't be possible on WP7.8, even if the hardware was the exact same.

Another rumour is that there'll be more advance backgrounding of apps in WP8, giving apps new mechanisms to run in the background, which again would create a whole class of apps on WP8 that wouldn't be possible at all on WP7.8.

Even where things are possible on both platforms, apps developed for WP8 using native code and DirectX, which some developers seem to be waiting for, are less likely to be ported back to Silverlight/XNA, so again, even with the exact same hardware WP8 would have apps that would never appear on WP7.

This doesn't impact me directly, I understand that sometimes to make progress you have to cut away the past, and I'll most likely get a WP8 handset fairly early on, but I think it could annoy a lot of people and damage the platform overall.

It's very possible that I'm being overly pessimistic, details are still sparse and it's very possible WP7.8 will actually support almost does WP8 does except for the obvious hardware constraints, but that's how it looks to me at the moment.

stevenmu

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

The only thing I hope is as some one mentioned before the screen sizes stay down while still having all the features.

The great thing about the new customisable home screen is that it should work well across different resolutions and screen sizes, so hopefully the OEMs will provide a good range and mix.

AntiVirus

stevenmu wrote: »

It's very possible that I'm being overly pessimistic, details are still sparse and it's very possible WP7.8 will actually support almost does WP8 does except for the obvious hardware constraints, but that's how it looks to me at the moment.

Yes you are being a bit pessimistic, you're really comparing Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8. We don't know anything about the new Windows Phone SDK or how the API's will work when changing compiler settings. We're really at the very early stage of Windows Phone 7.8/8 and will have to wait a bit longer to know exactly how the 2 will work together.

I think the key is in this quote from yesterday:

"New applications compiled specifically for Windows Phone 8 will not be made available for Windows Phone 7.x devices."

It's that simple

T-b0n3

Just wondering what Twitter app people are using?

I'm just using the official twitter one, but it has no notifications at all other wise seems okay.

Just wondering if some one could recommend one? I wouldn't mind paying for the best one since its the app I use by far the most.

On a LG Optimus 7 E900 if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

AntiVirus

T-b0n3 wrote: »

Just wondering what Twitter app people are using?

I'm just using the official twitter one, but it has no notifications at all other wise seems okay.

Just wondering if some one could recommend one? I wouldn't mind paying for the best one since its the app I use by far the most.

On a LG Optimus 7 E900 if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

Rowi gets good reviews and is highly rated. There's a free version too.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phones/rowi-best-twitter-app-for-windows-phone-gets-better-with-20/7388

Do-more

I'll be rightly cheesed off if Skype isn't fully integrated in WP7.8, any word on that?

gman2k

Nothing about Skype in 7.8, so at this stage I reckon it won't be integrated further.
All that's confirmed that's coming to 7.8 is the start page.

AntiVirus

Do-more wrote: »

I'll be rightly cheesed off if Skype isn't fully integrated in WP7.8, any word on that?

+1

evolutionqy7

Apparently 6500+ users on WPcentral took the poll and are quite happy with the 7.8 update path. I'm in between I know it's hard to do it if not possible due to hardware, but there's also the kernel change which could potentially if went wrong could start bricking window phones out there.

http://m.wpcentral.com/poll-results-majority-windows-phone-users-happy-proposed-78-update

snaps

I've been waiting for sky go to come to wp7. No chance it will now. Its a shame, as I like wp7 operating system. I am now considering moving to android.

evolutionqy7

snaps wrote: »

I've been waiting for sky go to come to wp7. No chance it will now. Its a shame, as I like wp7 operating system. I am now considering moving to android.

I don't really expect sky go to come, took them years to come out with one for Android, I expect the same for WP7, software wise Sky are rubbish

stevenmu

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

Apparently 6500+ users on WPcentral took the poll and are quite happy with the 7.8 update path. I'm in between I know it's hard to do it if not possible due to hardware, but there's also the kernel change which could potentially if went wrong could start bricking window phones out there.

http://m.wpcentral.com/poll-results-majority-windows-phone-users-happy-proposed-78-update

That's good news, I'm mostly just concerned about potential damage to the popularity of the platform.

Dyr

What's coming in 7.8

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-US/cmpn/windows-phone-7-5-news.aspx

Start screen and a sprinkling of PR BS for lumia owners

Do-more

Probably not a great analogy, but if I buy a new VW Golf and after a year VW introduce a better engine for it, I don't expect them to upgrade the engine in my car for free.

So I'm not that concerned that my phone won't be getting WP8 and it won't put me off upgrading to a new WP8 sometime in the future.

Having said that given that Skype is owned by Microsoft and runs in the background in existing iphones and android phones I'll be severely pissed off if Skype is not upgraded to run in the background on my existing WP7.5 phone at some point in the very near future.

AntiVirus

Do-more wrote: »

Having said that given that Skype is owned by Microsoft and runs in the background in existing iphones and android phones I'll be severely pissed off if Skype is not upgraded to run in the background on my existing WP7.5 phone at some point in the very near future.

I'm exactly the same on this one. Just give me skype integration with the new start screen and I'll be happy.

AngryLips

I read that WP8 will have a wallet function that allows "in-app" charging/subscriptions. Does anyone know if this will be rolled out to the WP7 update as well?

stevenmu

AngryLips wrote: »

I read that WP8 will have a wallet function that allows "in-app" charging/subscriptions. Does anyone know if this will be rolled out to the WP7 update as well?

It's very unlikely. It looks like the only thing that will be rolled out to WP7 is the new home screen.

AngryLips

stevenmu wrote: »

It's very unlikely. It looks like the only thing that will be rolled out to WP7 is the new home screen.

It seems odd that they're not making it available. I can't imagine how it would be a hardware limitation preventing it...

stevenmu

Well a lot of the functionality in it is based on NFC, so there is a hardware side to it, but they could have brought the non-NFC functionality back alright.

AntiVirus

stevenmu wrote: »

Well a lot of the functionality in it is based on NFC, so there is a hardware side to it, but they could have brought the non-NFC functionality back alright.

in-app purchasing has nothing to do with NFC. It's not hardware related at all, this is something developers have been looking for since WP7 was released. This is just to allow you to purchase upgrades add-on's etc in app's.

It will very likely be include in the next sdk for Windows Phone 7.8/8

The wallet is completely different

stevenmu

In-app purchasing has been linked the Wallet Hub feature (link 1,link 2). And as far as we know the Wallet Hub won't be coming to WP7.8.

If in-app purchasing comes to WP7.8 it will be via a different API. As far as I know there hasn't been any announcements yet about API updates in WP7.8, but if they have added a set of functionality for WP8 in one way, I can't imagine them also doing it in a different way for WP7.8.

They could bring the hardware independent parts of Wallet Hub back to WP7.8, but that's not likely either. It probably relies a lot on the "shared core" stuff that only comes in WP8, so it would be a huge effort to port it back.

AntiVirus

stevenmu wrote: »

In-app purchasing has been linked the Wallet Hub feature (link 1,link 2). And as far as we know the Wallet Hub won't be coming to WP7.8.

If in-app purchasing comes to WP7.8 it will be via a different API. As far as I know there hasn't been any announcements yet about API updates in WP7.8, but if they have added a set of functionality for WP8 in one way, I can't imagine them also doing it in a different way for WP7.8.

They could bring the hardware independent parts of Wallet Hub back to WP7.8, but that's not likely either. It probably relies a lot on the "shared core" stuff that only comes in WP8, so it would be a huge effort to port it back.

It doesn't matter if its the same API a different API or multiple API's. For in-app purcahses you'll most likely call the same function for 7.8 as 8, the compiler will handle the rest. This kind of purchase does not rely in any way to NFC or any hardware.

The simplest way of looking at this is, in-app purchasing is already working in Windows Phone 7

Odaise Gaelach

You might be able to force the Tango update on your phones. I managed to get the update notification on Zune and my phone this morning, but I didn't get a chance to perform the actual update it yet.

Anyone else been able to do this too?

evolutionqy7

Odaise Gaelach wrote: »

You might be able to force the Tango update on your phones. I managed to get the update notification on Zune and my phone this morning, but I didn't get a chance to perform the actual update it yet.

Anyone else been able to do this too?

Well as far as Nokia shows the update is only available for 710 on 02 the rest are still waiting for approval.

Hope they come quick. I imagine my titan will probably get tango close enough to Apollo launch

Odaise Gaelach

Well, I've an LG Optimus 7 on Vodafone. Mind you, I've done a fair few unlocking procedures with it so I suppose that might have something to do with it...

Odaise Gaelach

I managed to force that update to my phone. Now the OS version number is 7.10.8112.7, whereas Tango is supposed to be 7.10.8773.98.

So... what update did I just install?

evolutionqy7

Odaise Gaelach wrote: »

I managed to force that update to my phone. Now the OS version number is 7.10.8112.7, whereas Tango is supposed to be 7.10.8773.98.

So... what update did I just install?

Your stuck in an in between update. That's the first update that comes through, the way I've seen it if your doing it the cab sender way 8112 is the first one and the you update to 8773. So your stuck in between? Try forcing another update?

Odaise Gaelach

Well spotted! I was stuck in an in-between update. I forced it a few more times and there was Tango.

DjFlin

Aside from the under the hood stuff, is there anything noticeably different in Tango?