Fees after accident (Long read)

Muzzier23

Hello all,

Long time viewer, first time poster so go easy

I was in a car accident a couple of months ago. Bad chain of events, that eventually led to me being slammed by a car behind me. The car was written off and myself and my wife were in a bad way with neck and back injuries.
Anyway, we are now recovering and getting back to work and are going through the PIAB to recover costs / compensation etc. This is where my gripe begins.....

So, I get on to my solicitor who tells me that i have to get a number of things to get the process moving along. These include, Assesment for the car, medical reports from doctors, hospitals and physio and a report from a private consultant. My solicitor tells me to contact the relavant parties and request the information and documentation that i need. He tells me that i need to pay for all of this out of my pocket (Which i think is a bit odd) and if anyone asks for a solicitors letter that i need to find out how much the service costs; send my solicitor a cheque and when it clears he will send the letter and pay.

Now i decide to get on to a car assesor and get the report for my car. The assesor tells me his fee is €150 and i aggree. A week or so later he calls me to tell me that he has the report and asks, "did a solicitor ask you to get the report?", to which i reply "yes". He then says with real venom, "Oh, i thought so. He knows that if he asked for the report, i would have charged him double that". WTF????? Surely your fee is your fee and thats the end of it? The story continues........

I get a couple of letters from the hospital for final demand for hospital charges (Even though its the first letter) - €100 each. Having both been out of work for the best part of 2 months, i decide to call them to let them know that i cant afford to pay but as soon as we get back on our feet, we will pay up. When i called the hospital and explain my story, the lady on the other end says, "Oh, you were in an RTA?" (Road traffic accident to you and I), to which i reply "yes". She then tells me to hold on while she transfers me to another department that looks after this sort of request.

I get transfered to another lady (Very nice) and explain my story again. She tells me that i dont have to worry about the charges as with RTA's, the bill is sent to my solicitor and it is then taken out of any settlement i recieve. "Great", i respond. "So I dont have to worry about it?". She tells me to forget about it but theres a catch........ She tells me that for this service, an extra €100 will be added to EACH of the outstanding bills! Also, because there was 2 ambulances involved, there is an extra €60 on top of that each!!!

I could not believe what i was hearing and asked her what the charges were for and she told me that it was standard with all RTA's! She told me not to worry as it goes in as an expense and it will never affect me. She also says, if I loose a court case, i only have to pay the initial bill of €100! When I asked if she was seriously telling me that I now had a bill of €520 because i called to say that I COULD NOT AFFORD A BILL OF €200, she actually laughed down the phone! WTF is wrong with this country??!!

The list continues......

The hospital wont release my X-Rays without a letter from my doctor - My doctor wants €60 to write the letter - The hospital want €50 for my X-Ray and the hospital wants €275 to release my medical files. Bear in mind that this is 2 fold because there were 2 of us.

I now 3 months after the accident and thousands in the red all because I got rear ended.
I guess the moral of the story is: If you get rear ended, prepare to be screwed eh!:(

Outkast_IRE

my father was in the exact same situtation as you , in the end it took over two years for the case to be settled . All i can say is hold tough and see it out to the end , it takes a while but it will all sort itself out in the end.
Just get all the necessary reports and documents in as soon as you can that will help speed the process somewhat.

EKRIUQ

The doctors letter was cheap it's normally €300-€500 for the letter.

martin451

EKRIUQ wrote: »

The doctors letter was cheap it's normally €300-€500 for the letter.

can you not get access to your own medical records via data protetcion or freedom of information request ??

jimmyw

Well shame on you for having that accident, what were you thinking?:rolleyes:;).Jeez, it could only happen in Ireland, what a f****d up country we live in.We have some health service:(.Its enough to put anyone back in hospital.Thats one big joke!!

Muzzier23

martin451 wrote: »

can you not get access to your own medical records via data protetcion or freedom of information request ??

Lol. I tried that. Send a cheque with €6.35 (the max charge alowed) and allow 14 decades for a response :rolleyes:

You would think the fact that i have spent in excess for €800 on the doctor and €2000 on physio, they would cut me a break?

The main issue i have is although i know that the quicker i get all my papers sent off, i simply cannot afford to pay for all the reports. I dont have the document to hand but the consultant in a relatavly new hospital wants in the region of €1200 for each of the reports. Thats more than 2 months mortgage payments and i bought my house in the "bad times"!

My advice to anyone that reads this is simple. Even if you feel you cannot justify the extra on your premium, GO FULLY COMPREHENSIVE ON YOUR CAR INSURANCE! Sorry for the caps but maybe someone will learn from me trying to save a hundred quid in tough times! The expense of having to buy a car on top of everything else almost made me default on my mortgage.

Thanks for the interest folks, its great to have somewhere to vent

Bogger77

no offence, but unless something major has changed since 2002, there's something up with this.
I was in an RTA in Aug 2002, where 2 ambulances + 1 fire engine were called. I never received any invoice for these. The hospital, UCH in Cork, never sent me or anyone else involved any invoices for services received, neither was my health insurance used. My solicitor took care of getting all, and any reports required, and I didn't have to pay any up front fee's for the same.
In my case, the other party was driving a stolen car, and had been convicted in less than 4 weeks from date of crash and deported. So liability wasn't at fault, and I was dealing with the MIBI and the insurance company for the owner of the stolen car. My insurance co, while not involved gave loads of advice.

I did have, and still have full comp, plus the added bit for legal fee's etc, but they were not used, as I didn't claim against my own policy.

Bogger77

Note to the above, I didn't dial 999, and I believe it was the gardai who called for the second ambulance, before the first one arrived at scene.

Muzzier23

Hey Bogger,

Im not sure how i could possibly take any offence but I thought that too TBH.
I am not sure who called the ambulances (It certainly wasnt me). I did call my insurance company for advice. They did an assesment of my car which undervalued the car by over 2K according to my independant assesor. When i questioned them (Politely i may add) about the valuation, I was told, we dont have to even speak to you; sure you only have third party insurance.
Maybe im just having a bad run of it but the thing that really annoys me is that when anyone hears RTA, you can nearly see them rubbing thier hands together with a grin ear to ear!
"Here's another poor sap to con out of a few quid" should be written just underneath the tri-colour :mad:

jor el

jimmyw wrote: »

Jeez, it could only happen in Ireland, what a f****d up country we live in.We have some health service

And in what country do the doctors and solicitors all work for free then?

Since this is an issue of compensation, you're not going to get anything until you have paid, and are looking to get that money back, otherwise there is nothing to compensate you for. Insurance would pay the medical and physio bills if you had appropriate cover. Why hasn't any of this been paid for by the insurance of the driver that hit you? There should be no need for solicitors if the other driver was found to be liable. Their insurance company should have assessed the damage and value of your car too, meaning you've no need to get your insurance company to do it, especially when they're not the ones paying out.

The €100 charge from the hospital is the A&E admissions fee. This is the first thing you should have paid before going to a solicitor or assessor. Why haven't you paid this yet? Don't go getting them to send it to your solicitor when that's just going to incur more charges.

The insurance should have covered all your essential bills, what you're looking for now is compensation, and in order to get that you need to prove you should be compensated. Solicitors, doctors and hospitals will all charge (usually high) fees to fill in forms and write letters, otherwise everyone would be requesting all of this for trivial matters.

If you're thousands in the red because of all this, then it must be your own doing. If the bills are due to medical needs, then you need to be chasing the insurance company to pay them, but I find it strange that you don't mention the responsible party's insurance company in all of this.

the groutch

if what the Op is saying is true, they're all just like a pack of wolves
they smell the money via an insurance/court claim (the driver who rear-ended her would have insurance), and are trying to get every penny they legally can from the OP in the assumption she's going to be able to claim it off the other driver. it sucks, but that's how messed up this country is

jor el

the groutch wrote: »

but that's how messed up this country is

Again, not just this country. Any western society with a litigation process (all of them, basically) will be the same. In Ireland though, we have the Injuries Board, which you use for making claims for compensation, and you don't need to go to a solicitor. You get a single form completed by your doctor (which he will charge you for) and then submit that with your application form and a €50 fee. That's it for fees, not the thousands that the OP has said they've currently paid out.

There's something missing in this story, as there's been no mention of the responsible party or their insurance company, or what the long chain of events leading up to being shunted from behind were. Why go to a solicitor? Is it more money than the Injuries Board would award that are being sought? It doesn't add up, but there is no reason that the OP should be paying such an amount of fees.

jimmyw

[QUOTE=jor el;67494504]And in what country do the doctors and solicitors all work for free then?

Since this is an issue of compensation, you're not going to get anything until you have paid, and are looking to get that money back, otherwise there is nothing to compensate you for. Insurance would pay the medical and physio bills if you had appropriate cover. Why hasn't any of this been paid for by the insurance of the driver that hit you? There should be no need for solicitors if the other driver was found to be liable. Their insurance company should have assessed the damage and value of your car too, meaning you've no need to get your insurance company to do it, especially when they're not the ones paying out.

The €100 charge from the hospital is the A&E admissions fee. This is the first thing you should have paid before going to a solicitor or assessor. Why haven't you paid this yet? Don't go getting them to send it to your solicitor when that's just going to incur more charges.

The insurance should have covered all your essential bills, what you're looking for now is compensation, and in order to get that you need to prove you should be compensated. Solicitors, doctors and hospitals will all charge (usually high) fees to fill in forms and write letters, otherwise everyone would be requesting all of this for trivial matters.

If you're thousands in the red because of all this, then it must be your own doing. If the bills are due to medical needs, then you need to be chasing the insurance company to pay them, but I find it strange that you don't mention the responsible party's insurance company in all of this.[/QUOTE]

Where did I say that they should work for free?:rolleyes:.Of course no one should work for free, but some of them legal people:p go over the top.Doctors and nurses deserve every cent they get.The red tape and general BS that goes on in this country is pathetic.You do raise a valid point about the other driver.Their insurance company should be paying out alot of this,its just the rubbish that goes on thats all.

Muzzier23

@jor el

Okay, so a couple of things here:
Firstly, i didnt name anyone. I wasnt aware that in order to post that i had to name every (or any) party responsable? I dont post on any boards so i am not sure as to why you would find anything about my post strange?

Since you asked, a short version of the long chain of events were:
We were driving on a motorway when the car in front of us braked hard (By brake hard, i mean stopped dead). I hit the brakes hard and slid, tipping the back of him (Very lightly). There was approx 100ft between us, so i wasnt tailgaiting or anything. The car behind us was unaware of anyone braking and went through us like a train. The insurance companies all found the 3rd guy to be responsable for all damages. Of course, everyone except them, that is.

The guy behinds insurance company did offer to pay me off. 5 days after the accident, i had a call from a very nice guy who asked to meet me. I agreed to meet him in my house and he made me an offer immdeiately.
He went through all of the bills that he "thought" i would incur, along with the value of my car and came up with a figure. Bear in mind that at this stage, i havent had a single nights sleep with the pain (The accident was severe BTW, the front of the guys bonnet was approx 2ft from the back of my seat.).
The 1st offer was for approx 75% of the value of my car so i refused. The second offer was slightly higher, so again i refused. I called a solicitor because my own insurance company recomended it! He told me that it is common practice in the insurance game to catch people off guard and offer money very soon after the accident. When i told him the figures i was offered, he laughed down the phone. He instructed me to tell the insurance company that i dint want any more offers. Thats where I am today.

As to why I dint pay the hospital charge. Did you even read the post? I didnt even know about it. I called to say that i could not afford it as soon as i got the letter and that i would pay it as soon as i could. Thats what sparked the whole rip off thing.

I hope that answers some of your questions

AmcD

The thing that I think is strange, is that your solicitor is asking you to ring around for reports. I work as a GP. I do not do a medical report unless I get a written request from a solicitor. Firstly this is to weed out non-serious requests (I get asked for letters all the time and many don't even get collected). Secondly, if it is a genuine medico-legal request, then I have to take it seriously as I could be called on in court to explain the report in the future. As a result there has to be a proper paper trail. The solicitor will detail exactly what I have to report on. With some of my patients it isn't clear because they have been involved in so many accidents and claims.
It seems to be much simpler for all parties to go through the PIAB without solicitors.
Also, just for the record, in my experience the report is always paid for with a solicitor's cheque, the patient never pays upfront (unless it is a pure PIAB report).

Muzzier23

Hi AmcD,

What you are saying does make sence and having had further problems getting reports, we have sacked our solicitor. I don't believe that my case will be settled by the injuries board because of the denial of liability for the 3rd cars insurance company despite the fact that he himself admitted that he didn't brake in time. From what I have been told, the injuries board will look at the case, make a judgement and put it to all the parties. If any one party disagrees with the judgement, I then get a cert which allows me to take the relevant parties to court.
To be honest, I am sick of the whole thing and I wish it never happened:mad:
I got married last year and this is by far the most stressful thing that has ever happened to us.

monkeypants

Muzzier23 wrote: »

The assesor tells me his fee is €150 and i aggree. A week or so later he calls me to tell me that he has the report and asks, "did a solicitor ask you to get the report?", to which i reply "yes". He then says with real venom, "Oh, i thought so. He knows that if he asked for the report, i would have charged him double that".

Muzzier23 wrote: »

She tells me that i dont have to worry about the charges as with RTA's, the bill is sent to my solicitor and it is then taken out of any settlement i recieve. "Great", i respond. "So I dont have to worry about it?". She tells me to forget about it but theres a catch........ She tells me that for this service, an extra €100 will be added to EACH of the outstanding bills! Also, because there was 2 ambulances involved, there is an extra €60 on top of that each!!!

I could not believe what i was hearing and asked her what the charges were for and she told me that it was standard with all RTA's! She told me not to worry as it goes in as an expense and it will never affect me. She also says, if I loose a court case, i only have to pay the initial bill of €100! When I asked if she was seriously telling me that I now had a bill of €520 because i called to say that I COULD NOT AFFORD A BILL OF €200, she actually laughed down the phone! WTF is wrong with this country??!!

Muzzier23 wrote: »

€275 to release my medical files.

A lot of interesting stuff on here. I don't quibble with a solicitor or doctor charging for letters and reports. As was mentioned previously, these documents have to be 100% in term of detail as they may end up being used in court. However, I think the OP's point was that certain costs were being doubled simply because it was assumed that the party had fault would pay it. Is that not some sort of fraud?

Muzzier23

monkeypants wrote: »

A lot of interesting stuff on here. I don't quibble with a solicitor or doctor charging for letters and reports. As was mentioned previously, these documents have to be 100% in term of detail as they may end up being used in court. However, I think the OP's point was that certain costs were being doubled simply because it was assumed that the party had fault would pay it. Is that not some sort of fraud?

All I can say is thank god someone now knows why I posted this up in the first place!
Surely I cannot be the only person with this experience?

listermint

Best of Luck OP, I agree. This has happened to a friend of mine. It seems that the second someone hears "the insurance will take care of it" they overcharge left right and center.

I partly blame the insurance companies in this country who seem to blindly pay out whatever bill comes in front of them, as it costs too much (seemingly) to investigate or request a secondary opinion.

mcwhirter

Ireland is almost an OK country to live in.

ONLY if you are not ill or get injured.

tommy21

AmcD wrote: »

The thing that I think is strange, is that your solicitor is asking you to ring around for reports. I work as a GP. I do not do a medical report unless I get a written request from a solicitor. Firstly this is to weed out non-serious requests (I get asked for letters all the time and many don't even get collected). Secondly, if it is a genuine medico-legal request, then I have to take it seriously as I could be called on in court to explain the report in the future. As a result there has to be a proper paper trail. The solicitor will detail exactly what I have to report on. With some of my patients it isn't clear because they have been involved in so many accidents and claims.
It seems to be much simpler for all parties to go through the PIAB without solicitors.
Also, just for the record, in my experience the report is always paid for with a solicitor's cheque, the patient never pays upfront (unless it is a pure PIAB report).

Hey interesting to hear a GPs opinion. I was in an accident in January (other party thankfully seems to be co-operating with PIAB) - I have a solicitor but he was the one who has written off for reports etc. You can do the PIAB process yourself, but if you are paying a solicitor good money, then he/she should be doing the majority of the ground work! My GP charged €300 for a report which I balked at first, but turns out they can often be in the region of €500 or €600. I had to pay for this myself, but will presumably get it back through PIAB. My father is a former solicitor and would generally be the rule that the client pays for the report. Maybe different solicitors, different ways of doing things?

OP - hang in there ,I only know too well it is a long and stressful process and your injuries sound much worse than mine. The charges outside of GP and solicitor seem inflated alright. I did not go down the route of an independent assessor, and took what the insurance company offered for my write-off after some negotiating to bring it up a bit - why did you go down this route ( I didn't bother as my car was a decade old!)?

It certainly seems like the person who did not cause the accident gets punished however!


edit: actually now I think back, I made the cheque out to my solicitor who then paid the GP!

Lorelei

The OP is in my experience, correct in his belief that as soon as insurance is mentioned prices go up.
My background is cleaning and we often get called in for smoke/water damage. The number of times I have been told "add a few hundred on top the insurance is paying" is to my mind staggering. One case an assessor told me to increase my quote as the other party would end up paying, (it was down to a plumbers insurance, one of his lads had failed to tighten something up or to put in a washer which resulted in a flood which wasn't discovered until after the weekend).
A lot of time insurance companies do pay as it is too costly to investigate although hopefully this will be changing. Inflating charges just because it is an insurance company is not only unethical and in my opinion morally illegal it also leads to increased premiums for us all.

Anyway GOOD LUCk with your case

RGS

As a claims handler can i nail this nisconception that insurance companies jst pay what they are asked to pay. Thats poor rubbish.
I and my colleagues spend our day investigating every item of expenditure submitted with claims and make appropriate deductions where warranted.

Secondly solicitors are not prepared to prepay for medical reports etc as insurance companies are not paying legal costs if case settled within PIAB process nor are they prepared to do the groundwork to get the claim moving because he fee they will get from the client is way less han they used to get before PIAB came into being in 2004.

OP, a three car pileup does create some problems especially as you have stated you rear ended the vehicle in front before you were hit, even if you only tipped the first car.

These claims take time to resolve. Good Luck.